The K2 debacle is a big fucking deal.

[Session]

Whats up with the warranty on new K2 skis?

Roll of the dice at this point.

 

[Turd.Ferguson]

haha andy made a regretful post

confused why they are gone???

 

[BirtDike]

Roll of the dice at this point.

Fuck. I got some new Lines and K2s for noodling around, and they'll probably be fine, but I knew I shoulda just stuck with ON3P or Praxis... for peace of mind.

 

[skidemon22]

If I'm reading this right, it seems like consolidation may happen. And given The Marker/Volkl/Dabello relationship (currently under their own banner, separate from K2 Skis, line, etc.) and the fact that those three brands are very successful in each of their respective categories (binding/Ski/ Ski boot), a good chance they will remain. I certainly hope so, as volkl makes a great ski...

 

[freeskibum82]

Whats up with the warranty on new K2 skis?

The company is still operating. Its the holding company that will change names. I highly doubt this company will be shut down. I do see some consolidation happening though to keep revenue up.

 

[cozyco]

some freshy news boys:
http://www.ispo.com/unternehmen/id_...-dalbello-voelkl-sollen-erhalten-bleiben.html

released today.

idk if some of you can speak German but Newell published a new press release on German referring to the statement of their CEO Micheal Polk from Tuesday. The important stuff translated for you:

-reasons of throwing their winter sports section on the market isnt their economical development over the last few years

-Newell is looking for a buyer who wanna "invest in winter sports and continue the success story of each brand"

-Aim of the new direction Newell is going is NOT to give up (aka. sell) any companies (Line, FT...)

-All companies are already working on their 17/18 (lets call it) innovations

Maybe onenerdykid can sum this up better than I do. Its not the lack of my German haha

 

[Bagels]

Spotted David Lesh's helicopter on the rooftop of K2 today.. As lucrative as Virtika is he's probably gonna buy it cash.

 

[KENDOZER]

Fuck em all. The industry is way to saturated anyway. Right now we got 44 members logged in and I can probably list off 44 different ski companies.

 

[Titus69]

This whole thing sounds like a shit show, if anything the Dalbello family should buy back the company since theyre the best people to run it like before. Line and FT could be bought for cheap but otherwise wouldnt make it out likely. I cant see Volkl and Marker going out, Volkl is a pretty big race brand and Marker sells a shit load of bindings especially among freeskiing. Wouldnt be shocked if Lesh bought k2, probably wouldnt be making boots or goggles though.

Maybe Roxa will become the new Full Tilt, I can say that theyre a comfy motherfuckin boot.

 

[freeballer]

Spotted David Lesh's helicopter on the rooftop of K2 today.. As lucrative as Virtika is he's probably gonna buy it cash.

Lesh is a baller for sure, but don't think he has the $60,000,000 to $100,000,000 it will take to purchase K2.

 

[pghjibber]

sounds like newell is back peddling a bit here...

saying at worst they will keep the winter sports brands until they find a buyer and the brands are no longer at risk of being shut down
http://www.firsttracksonline.com/20...-that-its-winter-sports-brands-will-continue/

 

[arnie_grape]

Lesh is a baller for sure, but don't think he has the $60,000,000 to $100,000,000 it will take to purchase K2.

he's so hood he'll probably just steal it

 

[Gryllz]

The most fucked thing about this shitshow is that dalbello was like JUST absorbed by k2, and is already going under. That's so fucked.

Ive had pair of dalbello waymakers for like 2 seasons and I love them. 10/10 would buy another pair so that fucking sucks

 

[Kretzschmar]

statement from Newell

Now a press release, in German, from Newell Brand states: “The reasons for streamlining the portfolio are not due to the economical development of these renowned and rich in tradition winter sport specialists, but in a changed focus of Newell with the goal to build a strong and pioneering company in the consumer goods industry.“ Sports-Business | 07.10.2016 Völkl produces as innovative ski manufacturer with 400 employees in Straubing, Bavaria. Bild: Messe München GmbH The goal is now to “find a new owner, over the next few months, who is willing to invest into the winter sports and continue the success story of the brands.“ K2, Marker, Dalbello, Volkl Supposed to Stay “It is not the goal of the process of Newell to abandon one of the companies or to shut it down, but to find a suitable buyer, who will then develop the traditional brands further.“ Employees and customers of K2 and Marker Dalbello Völkl can adapt to the thought that they will continue to find the traditional brands in stores the next few years. “At the moment both companies work steadily on their innovations and developments for 2017/18, corresponding investments will be made“, writes Newell Brands. And further: “The companies received positive feedback and a strong demand for the running collection 2016/17, according to that the companies and their employees are highly motivated for this season.“

 

[.lencon]

Vail will buy them.

 

[broto]

Vail will buy them.

please have your vail approved skis ready to scan before boarding this chairlift. only $500 until november 1st. but after that, it's $150 a day to rent.

 

[.lencon]

please have your vail approved skis ready to scan before boarding this chairlift. only $500 until november 1st. but after that, it's $150 a day to rent.

Honestly if vail bought them I wouldn't be surprised. Don't think it will happen, but it would put them one step closer to having a monopoly on the ski industry which they seem to want haha

 

[MountainInMyMind]

please have your vail approved skis ready to scan before boarding this chairlift. only $500 until november 1st. but after that, it's $150 a day to rent.

That would actually be a pretty scary possibility.

 

[JLev]

I worked for 7 years at K2 Sports. I've done everything from building skis in my garage, to operating a small and medium size private ski company, sold it twice to keep it afloat and now have gone back to a startup boutique ski company selling exclusively direct at Jskis.com. So over the past 20 years I've worked on every side and for every size ski business. My biggest take away from all of it is that winter sports brands never have, and never will match a public company's financial goals due to their seasonality and limited market size. This is a fact!

Public companies exist for one simple reason... to make more money every year. As an investor or shareholder you can't disagree with this. Reality is the ski industry is not growing, it's shrinking so the only way to accomplish annual growth is by spending less while selling the same. In a flat business this can only be accomplished by making cheaper product, reducing the number of employees, reducing athlete and media support, less marketing, ultimately investing less and less of the money made back into the brand and the sport. This leads to an automatic death spiral driving sales down, thus requiring more cutting and so on. Eventually the public company comes to the conclusion that they are done squeezing blood from a rock and it's time to sell it and look for the the next brand to purchase to do the same. Successful public companies know that the best brands sell the same product year round for decades to 100% of the population, everywhere on earth (paper towels, shoes, toothpics, etc.). The ski industry sells to a tiny nitche of consumers, for only 5 months a year... and only if it snows!

That said as you all know, the passion of winter sports consumers is second to none and is the reason that these brands do have a strong future and can be very profitable IF managed correctly which requires being privately owned. For this reason selling these brands is inevitable and can be an amazing opportunity and long term best for the brands and the ski industry.

The problem however is that Newel's goals are not driven by what's best for the brands, they want to sell it as as one giant conglomerate for efficiency and cost savings of doing one deal. I've talked to Newel directly this past week inquiring about the potential to buy Line and FT and they confirmed it will only be sold all as a whole, no option for someone to buy a single brand/brands, this includes the Euro division as well.

Thus it's unlikely the brands will be in any better hands than now and likely worse similar to when Quicksilver bought Rossignol and ran them into the ground before a private equity firm bought them back and got them back on track to where they are today. My guess is whoever buys it will either immediately break them up and sell individually to make profit or try to live the ski industry dream for a couple of years before bleed to death and eventually give in to re-sell separately or as a whole again down the road for even less.

I truly believe each and every brand has amazing potential to be sustainable stand alone or part of the right group if owned & operated by the right people. The industry can be rejuvenated with the profit made, being reinvested back into the sport (instead of wallstreet) so we actually have a chance of our sport not only surviving but growing (climate change aside). So if anyone has access to a couple hundred million dollars, hit me up and we can take a crack at saving 30% of the ski industries brands with the power to fix a lot of what's broken in skiing and snowboarding.

 

[Park.]

I worked for 7 years at K2 Sports. I've done everything from building skis in my garage, to operating a small and medium size private ski company, sold it twice to keep it afloat and now have gone back to a startup boutique ski company selling exclusively direct at Jskis.com. So over the past 20 years I've worked on every side and for every size ski business. My biggest take away from all of it is that winter sports brands never have, and never will match a public company's financial goals due to their seasonality and limited market size. This is a fact!

Public companies exist for one simple reason... to make more money every year. As an investor or shareholder you can't disagree with this. Reality is the ski industry is not growing, it's shrinking so the only way to accomplish annual growth is by spending less while selling the same. In a flat business this can only be accomplished by making cheaper product, reducing the number of employees, reducing athlete and media support, less marketing, ultimately investing less and less of the money made back into the brand and the sport. This leads to an automatic death spiral driving sales down, thus requiring more cutting and so on. Eventually the public company comes to the conclusion that they are done squeezing blood from a rock and it's time to sell it and look for the the next brand to purchase to do the same. Successful public companies know that the best brands sell the same product year round for decades to 100% of the population, everywhere on earth (paper towels, shoes, toothpics, etc.). The ski industry sells to a tiny nitche of consumers, for only 5 months a year... and only if it snows!

That said as you all know, the passion of winter sports consumers is second to none and is the reason that these brands do have a strong future and can be very profitable IF managed correctly which requires being privately owned. For this reason selling these brands is inevitable and can be an amazing opportunity and long term best for the brands and the ski industry.

The problem however is that Newel's goals are not driven by what's best for the brands, they want to sell it as as one giant conglomerate for efficiency and cost savings of doing one deal. I've talked to Newel directly this past week inquiring about the potential to buy Line and FT and they confirmed it will only be sold all as a whole, no option for someone to buy a single brand/brands, this includes the Euro division as well.

Thus it's unlikely the brands will be in any better hands than now and likely worse similar to when Quicksilver bought Rossignol and ran them into the ground before a private equity firm bought them back and got them back on track to where they are today. My guess is whoever buys it will either immediately break them up and sell individually to make profit or try to live the ski industry dream for a couple of years before bleed to death and eventually give in to re-sell separately or as a whole again down the road for even less.

I truly believe each and every brand has amazing potential to be sustainable stand alone or part of the right group if owned & operated by the right people. The industry can be rejuvenated with the profit made, being reinvested back into the sport (instead of wallstreet) so we actually have a chance of our sport not only surviving but growing (climate change aside). So if anyone has access to a couple hundred million dollars, hit me up and we can take a crack at saving 30% of the ski industries brands with the power to fix a lot of what's broken in skiing and snowboarding.

11/10

 

[willysworld]

I worked for 7 years at K2 Sports. I've done everything from building skis in my garage, to operating a small and medium size private ski company, sold it twice to keep it afloat and now have gone back to a startup boutique ski company selling exclusively direct at Jskis.com. So over the past 20 years I've worked on every side and for every size ski business. My biggest take away from all of it is that winter sports brands never have, and never will match a public company's financial goals due to their seasonality and limited market size. This is a fact!

Public companies exist for one simple reason... to make more money every year. As an investor or shareholder you can't disagree with this. Reality is the ski industry is not growing, it's shrinking so the only way to accomplish annual growth is by spending less while selling the same. In a flat business this can only be accomplished by making cheaper product, reducing the number of employees, reducing athlete and media support, less marketing, ultimately investing less and less of the money made back into the brand and the sport. This leads to an automatic death spiral driving sales down, thus requiring more cutting and so on. Eventually the public company comes to the conclusion that they are done squeezing blood from a rock and it's time to sell it and look for the the next brand to purchase to do the same. Successful public companies know that the best brands sell the same product year round for decades to 100% of the population, everywhere on earth (paper towels, shoes, toothpics, etc.). The ski industry sells to a tiny nitche of consumers, for only 5 months a year... and only if it snows!

That said as you all know, the passion of winter sports consumers is second to none and is the reason that these brands do have a strong future and can be very profitable IF managed correctly which requires being privately owned. For this reason selling these brands is inevitable and can be an amazing opportunity and long term best for the brands and the ski industry.

The problem however is that Newel's goals are not driven by what's best for the brands, they want to sell it as as one giant conglomerate for efficiency and cost savings of doing one deal. I've talked to Newel directly this past week inquiring about the potential to buy Line and FT and they confirmed it will only be sold all as a whole, no option for someone to buy a single brand/brands, this includes the Euro division as well.

Thus it's unlikely the brands will be in any better hands than now and likely worse similar to when Quicksilver bought Rossignol and ran them into the ground before a private equity firm bought them back and got them back on track to where they are today. My guess is whoever buys it will either immediately break them up and sell individually to make profit or try to live the ski industry dream for a couple of years before bleed to death and eventually give in to re-sell separately or as a whole again down the road for even less.

I truly believe each and every brand has amazing potential to be sustainable stand alone or part of the right group if owned & operated by the right people. The industry can be rejuvenated with the profit made, being reinvested back into the sport (instead of wallstreet) so we actually have a chance of our sport not only surviving but growing (climate change aside). So if anyone has access to a couple hundred million dollars, hit me up and we can take a crack at saving 30% of the ski industries brands with the power to fix a lot of what's broken in skiing and snowboarding.

Does Ellon Musk ski? Maybe hit him up and then you can do a teslar collaboration ski with rockets like the ones from the old James Bond.

 

[travias]

I worked for 7 years at K2 Sports. I've done everything from building skis in my garage, to operating a small and medium size private ski company, sold it twice to keep it afloat and now have gone back to a startup boutique ski company selling exclusively direct at Jskis.com. So over the past 20 years I've worked on every side and for every size ski business. My biggest take away from all of it is that winter sports brands never have, and never will match a public company's financial goals due to their seasonality and limited market size. This is a fact!

Public companies exist for one simple reason... to make more money every year. As an investor or shareholder you can't disagree with this. Reality is the ski industry is not growing, it's shrinking so the only way to accomplish annual growth is by spending less while selling the same. In a flat business this can only be accomplished by making cheaper product, reducing the number of employees, reducing athlete and media support, less marketing, ultimately investing less and less of the money made back into the brand and the sport. This leads to an automatic death spiral driving sales down, thus requiring more cutting and so on. Eventually the public company comes to the conclusion that they are done squeezing blood from a rock and it's time to sell it and look for the the next brand to purchase to do the same. Successful public companies know that the best brands sell the same product year round for decades to 100% of the population, everywhere on earth (paper towels, shoes, toothpics, etc.). The ski industry sells to a tiny nitche of consumers, for only 5 months a year... and only if it snows!

That said as you all know, the passion of winter sports consumers is second to none and is the reason that these brands do have a strong future and can be very profitable IF managed correctly which requires being privately owned. For this reason selling these brands is inevitable and can be an amazing opportunity and long term best for the brands and the ski industry.

The problem however is that Newel's goals are not driven by what's best for the brands, they want to sell it as as one giant conglomerate for efficiency and cost savings of doing one deal. I've talked to Newel directly this past week inquiring about the potential to buy Line and FT and they confirmed it will only be sold all as a whole, no option for someone to buy a single brand/brands, this includes the Euro division as well.

Thus it's unlikely the brands will be in any better hands than now and likely worse similar to when Quicksilver bought Rossignol and ran them into the ground before a private equity firm bought them back and got them back on track to where they are today. My guess is whoever buys it will either immediately break them up and sell individually to make profit or try to live the ski industry dream for a couple of years before bleed to death and eventually give in to re-sell separately or as a whole again down the road for even less.

I truly believe each and every brand has amazing potential to be sustainable stand alone or part of the right group if owned & operated by the right people. The industry can be rejuvenated with the profit made, being reinvested back into the sport (instead of wallstreet) so we actually have a chance of our sport not only surviving but growing (climate change aside). So if anyone has access to a couple hundred million dollars, hit me up and we can take a crack at saving 30% of the ski industries brands with the power to fix a lot of what's broken in skiing and snowboarding.

Preach! Do I smell a kickstarter campaign coming on? Donate $5000, get .005% of the company and free skis for life! Only have to actually pay it out we reach the goal of $100,000,000

 

[Mingg]

Preach! Do I smell a kickstarter campaign coming on? Donate $5000, get .005% of the company and free skis for life! Only have to actually pay it out we reach the goal of $100,000,000

Isn't that how the stock market works hahahah

 

[jakeordie]

I worked for 7 years at K2 Sports. I've done everything from building skis in my garage, to operating a small and medium size private ski company, sold it twice to keep it afloat and now have gone back to a startup boutique ski company selling exclusively direct at Jskis.com. So over the past 20 years I've worked on every side and for every size ski business. My biggest take away from all of it is that winter sports brands never have, and never will match a public company's financial goals due to their seasonality and limited market size. This is a fact!

Public companies exist for one simple reason... to make more money every year. As an investor or shareholder you can't disagree with this. Reality is the ski industry is not growing, it's shrinking so the only way to accomplish annual growth is by spending less while selling the same. In a flat business this can only be accomplished by making cheaper product, reducing the number of employees, reducing athlete and media support, less marketing, ultimately investing less and less of the money made back into the brand and the sport. This leads to an automatic death spiral driving sales down, thus requiring more cutting and so on. Eventually the public company comes to the conclusion that they are done squeezing blood from a rock and it's time to sell it and look for the the next brand to purchase to do the same. Successful public companies know that the best brands sell the same product year round for decades to 100% of the population, everywhere on earth (paper towels, shoes, toothpics, etc.). The ski industry sells to a tiny nitche of consumers, for only 5 months a year... and only if it snows!

That said as you all know, the passion of winter sports consumers is second to none and is the reason that these brands do have a strong future and can be very profitable IF managed correctly which requires being privately owned. For this reason selling these brands is inevitable and can be an amazing opportunity and long term best for the brands and the ski industry.

The problem however is that Newel's goals are not driven by what's best for the brands, they want to sell it as as one giant conglomerate for efficiency and cost savings of doing one deal. I've talked to Newel directly this past week inquiring about the potential to buy Line and FT and they confirmed it will only be sold all as a whole, no option for someone to buy a single brand/brands, this includes the Euro division as well.

Thus it's unlikely the brands will be in any better hands than now and likely worse similar to when Quicksilver bought Rossignol and ran them into the ground before a private equity firm bought them back and got them back on track to where they are today. My guess is whoever buys it will either immediately break them up and sell individually to make profit or try to live the ski industry dream for a couple of years before bleed to death and eventually give in to re-sell separately or as a whole again down the road for even less.

I truly believe each and every brand has amazing potential to be sustainable stand alone or part of the right group if owned & operated by the right people. The industry can be rejuvenated with the profit made, being reinvested back into the sport (instead of wallstreet) so we actually have a chance of our sport not only surviving but growing (climate change aside). So if anyone has access to a couple hundred million dollars, hit me up and we can take a crack at saving 30% of the ski industries brands with the power to fix a lot of what's broken in skiing and snowboarding.

Thank you Jason, for taking the time to write such an insightful op-ed piece on what's happening at K2. Your perspective is most likely the one skiers can benefit most from, and it must not have been easy to write so objectively given your personal investment in Line & Full Tilt. It fucking sucks you can't buy them back, especially considering you never dealt directly with Jarden or Newell in their acquisition of the Line brand. But for what it's worth, I don't see what you could do with it that you're not already doing better with J Skis.....this way is gonna take longer, but you'll have full control every step of the way.

 

[saskskier]

I worked for 7 years at K2 Sports. I've done everything from building skis in my garage, to operating a small and medium size private ski company, sold it twice to keep it afloat and now have gone back to a startup boutique ski company selling exclusively direct at Jskis.com. So over the past 20 years I've worked on every side and for every size ski business. My biggest take away from all of it is that winter sports brands never have, and never will match a public company's financial goals due to their seasonality and limited market size. This is a fact!

Public companies exist for one simple reason... to make more money every year. As an investor or shareholder you can't disagree with this. Reality is the ski industry is not growing, it's shrinking so the only way to accomplish annual growth is by spending less while selling the same. In a flat business this can only be accomplished by making cheaper product, reducing the number of employees, reducing athlete and media support, less marketing, ultimately investing less and less of the money made back into the brand and the sport. This leads to an automatic death spiral driving sales down, thus requiring more cutting and so on. Eventually the public company comes to the conclusion that they are done squeezing blood from a rock and it's time to sell it and look for the the next brand to purchase to do the same. Successful public companies know that the best brands sell the same product year round for decades to 100% of the population, everywhere on earth (paper towels, shoes, toothpics, etc.). The ski industry sells to a tiny nitche of consumers, for only 5 months a year... and only if it snows!

That said as you all know, the passion of winter sports consumers is second to none and is the reason that these brands do have a strong future and can be very profitable IF managed correctly which requires being privately owned. For this reason selling these brands is inevitable and can be an amazing opportunity and long term best for the brands and the ski industry.

The problem however is that Newel's goals are not driven by what's best for the brands, they want to sell it as as one giant conglomerate for efficiency and cost savings of doing one deal. I've talked to Newel directly this past week inquiring about the potential to buy Line and FT and they confirmed it will only be sold all as a whole, no option for someone to buy a single brand/brands, this includes the Euro division as well.

Thus it's unlikely the brands will be in any better hands than now and likely worse similar to when Quicksilver bought Rossignol and ran them into the ground before a private equity firm bought them back and got them back on track to where they are today. My guess is whoever buys it will either immediately break them up and sell individually to make profit or try to live the ski industry dream for a couple of years before bleed to death and eventually give in to re-sell separately or as a whole again down the road for even less.

I truly believe each and every brand has amazing potential to be sustainable stand alone or part of the right group if owned & operated by the right people. The industry can be rejuvenated with the profit made, being reinvested back into the sport (instead of wallstreet) so we actually have a chance of our sport not only surviving but growing (climate change aside). So if anyone has access to a couple hundred million dollars, hit me up and we can take a crack at saving 30% of the ski industries brands with the power to fix a lot of what's broken in skiing and snowboarding.

JLev for president (or at least king of the skiers)

 

[Zimmy]

So if anyone has access to a couple hundred million dollars, hit me up and we can take a crack at saving 30% of the ski industries brands with the power to fix a lot of what's broken in skiing and snowboarding.

How are you going to fix the weather and make people more resilient to being injured? I think you just want a cushy corporate job, but I might be wrong.. care to lay out your ideas and reasoning on what you know that other people don't?

 

[cobra_commander]

I think you just want a cushy corporate job

That is pretty much what J skis is...

 

[JLev]

How are you going to fix the weather and make people more resilient to being injured? I think you just want a cushy corporate job, but I might be wrong.. care to lay out your ideas and reasoning on what you know that other people don't?

Haha I wouldn't have spent past 20 years working in ski industry if I wanted a cushy corporate job. Learn your history and you'll understand yo future!

 

[saskskier]

Haha I wouldn't have spent past 20 years working in ski industry if I wanted a cushy corporate job. Learn your history and you'll understand yo future!

I think we can all see past the facade that your years of brutal honesty and insight into the industry have brought. Suit.

 

[Rparr]

this makes me sad about the future of the industry.

 

[Zimmy]

Haha I wouldn't have spent past 20 years working in ski industry if I wanted a cushy corporate job. Learn your history and you'll understand yo future!

You wanna be a rockstar? Grow JSkis to something enormous. Now is your chance with the hole in the market. You sold out of Line and FT years ago, now you want them back?

 

[broto]

You wanna be a rockstar? Grow JSkis to something enormous. Now is your chance with the hole in the market. You sold out of Line and FT years ago, now you want them back?

You're a kook dude, pretty sure id rather have those companies in Jay's hands than another international group of investors or some shit. Its unfortunate, but he sold the companies to keep them afloat. When faced with the ultimatum of selling out or going under there is a pretty clear choice. They get too big for their own good and suddenly some investor wants in who doesn't give a shit about me or you and thinks he can cut corners and turn things around. Growth can be the death of companies in niche action sports because once a business goes public it's all about the money and they push away their roots. And the margins are already veeerry slim in skiing. If you think small, private, "core" companies exist in the ski industry to get their owners rich you are delusional. Small brand owners are often working other day jobs to pay the bills and keep putting money into their company.

 

[Zimmy]

You're a kook dude

I had a reply all lined up but f*** it.

 

[C_dub]

I had a reply all lined up but f*** it.

You should start mass producing your skis to fill the coming gap in the industry. Oh wait, no one wants them

 

[Zimmy]

You should start mass producing your skis to fill the coming gap in the industry. Oh wait, no one wants them

U don't need special skis to h-carve, although it enhances the experience a lot. I invited JLev into the HC cult (I'd hardly call it a cult) but he's yet to join. HAHAHA. Large companies often fire startup founders, not recruit them.... that's part of the reason why I asked him to post his ideas...

 

[saskskier]

You wanna be a rockstar? Grow JSkis to something enormous. Now is your chance with the hole in the market. You sold out of Line and FT years ago, now you want them back?

Are you saying that already building one of the first and most influential freestyle from the ground up hasn't been enough?

 

[Zimmy]

Are you saying that already building one of the first and most influential freestyle from the ground up hasn't been enough?

Freestyle what?

Twintips? Wasn't that Armada, oh wait, wasn't that idea taken from Salomon?

Full Tilt? Wasn't that from Raichle moulds?

 

[saskskier]

Freestyle what?

Twintips? Wasn't that Armada, oh wait, wasn't that idea taken from Salomon?

Full Tilt? Wasn't that from Raichle moulds?

Skiing. Sorry about that.

Armada came out years after Line was already an established ski company. Salomon had one of the first freestyle twin-tipped skis (the 1080), although as far as I know, Line is the first company to only produce twin-tip skis.

Full Tilt never claimed it was anything other than re-branded Flexon's.

 

[broto]

Freestyle what?

Twintips? Wasn't that Armada, oh wait, wasn't that idea taken from Salomon?

Full Tilt? Wasn't that from Raichle moulds?

http://lineskis.com/history

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about man.

 

[Rparr]

Oh my god, is this really how the shartcarve guy is trying to stay relevant?

 

[Zimmy]

Oh my god, is this really how the shartcarve guy is trying to stay relevant?

JLev didn't invent the full-length twintip. Line were putting out a mini twintip in 1997 (a type of snowblade.. but did he invent the snowblade?)

At that time the (pre)Armada guys probably saw them (from Line or other brands,) and then came up with the idea (as inspired by snowboarders) to do full-length trick skis (ie twintips) in the Air Carve video as a pitch to Salomon who then built them. Those mogul skiers could then use them and went on start Armada. But prior to that, Line copied (if that is the right word) Salomon and expanded their product line.

Why does this matter anyway? I just asked JLev to post his ideas on how he could save (or kickstart) the industry. So now that I've gone into some of the history... it's his turn. So far he mentioned reinvesting profits back into the industry... anything else?

 

[saskskier]

JLev didn't invent the full-length twintip. Line were putting out a mini twintip in 1997 (a type of snowblade.. but did he invent the snowblade?)

At that time the (pre)Armada guys probably saw them (from Line or other brands,) and then came up with the idea (as inspired by snowboarders) to do full-length trick skis (ie twintips) in the Air Carve video as a pitch to Salomon who then built them. Those mogul skiers could then use them and went on start Armada. But prior to that, Line copied (if that is the right word) Salomon and expanded their product line.

Why does this matter anyway? I just asked JLev to post his ideas on how he could save (or kickstart) the industry. So now that I've gone into some of the history... it's his turn. So far he mentioned reinvesting profits back into the industry... anything else?

No where did I say that JLev invented the twin-tip ski. I said he founded one of the most influential (freestyle) ski companies our sport has known. Line was founded in 1995. Give credit where credit is due, man.

Armada was founded in 2002, as was 4frnt. Mogul skiers didn't start Armada. Established 'new school' skiers like Tanner Hall and JP Auclair (along with four others) founded Armada.

As for your question to JLev? If he has the ability to influence and change the industry, I have no doubts he'll do it. Read this to get some insight into the way he thinks:
https://www.newschoolers.com/news/read/The-Jason-Levinthal-A

 

[JLev]

U don't need special skis to h-carve, although it enhances the experience a lot. I invited JLev into the HC cult (I'd hardly call it a cult) but he's yet to join. HAHAHA. Large companies often fire startup founders, not recruit them.... that's part of the reason why I asked him to post his ideas...

Sorry I didn't notice the invite, I forgot to check for messages the past year and must have turned off all notifications. I only scan home page and comment if something hits me. I'll check and join of course, I'm always down with whatever's good for skiing

 

[skiride69]

I created an account just to share what I found out, n00b for life. I was at the ski show in Toronto and talked to one of the K2 reps and what he told me was yes, they're being sold, but in his opinion it's a good thing cause it will allow someone who gives a sh*t to buy the company and relieve the corporate pressure. From the business side, they're slimming down a bit to make themselves more attractive to a buyer (hence dropping some sponsorship). Also, all warranties will be valid and they're working on next years gear, which I don't think they'd do if they're concerned about being open. In my opinion, it would be dumb to close down the companies straight up when they could sell them off, even if the value is less than Newell wants. I think we just have to wait until the selling price drops so someone can pick it up.

 

[skierman]

Whoever this Jlev dude is, he's a lying piece of shit. Don't believe anything he says because I know more and what I know, which is more, is better than what he knows and I know that what he knows is not true.

 

[Session]

Oh my god, is this really how the shartcarve guy is trying to stay relevant?

I'm

 

[Session]

Oh my god, is this really how the shartcarve guy is trying to stay relevant?

I'm convinced he is just some trust fund kid with an identity complex trying to figure out how to stand out. Literally white noise at this point.

 

[Zimmy]

No where did I say that JLev invented the twin-tip ski.

Comment from Air Carve vid: "Olin mark IV was the first twin, way back in 1974, during the heyday of hotdogging" Wikipedia

The biggest problem with making skis is inhaling all the resin fumes. No joke. Glad I don't do it.

 

[saskskier]

Comment from Air Carve vid: "Olin mark IV was the first twin, way back in 1974, during the heyday of hotdogging" Wikipedia

The biggest problem with making skis is inhaling all the resin fumes. No joke. Glad I don't do it.

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with this post? I've never argued that JLev invented the twin tip ski.

 

[Zimmy]

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with this post? I've never argued that JLev invented the twin tip ski.

Yes, and I was shedding light on the situation. BUT, from the link you provided it says at the start.

"Back in 1995 he built the first twin tip skis out of his parent’s garage, launching LINE as the first of the modern day startup freeski companies & paving the way for dozens of other startups to follow."

No they weren't the first twin tip skis. Nor were they skis.. they were snowblades, and they probably (I don't know - should I research it?) weren't the first snowblades either. Also, coming up with twintips then wouldn't have been to hard, given all the twintip snowboards that were around.

From my assessment, JLev would be called a Fast Follower. Although, I think Sep 2013 is pretty late to start a custom ski shop, there were a bunch around when I was looking. I just asked him what his ideas were to make skiing great again if he were to become the head of this conglomerate... I never intended or wanted to start a thesis like he did. until he averted my question and people started poking at me. Is he a great skier? That'd give him more street cred in my book.. but starting companies and building them up within an industry is definitely a high achievement.