The Holocaust

KRASHED

KRASHED

Active member
Ok this was sparked from a conversation on my schoolbus with a guy who doesn't believe the holocaust happend at all. He's a self proclaimed Nazi and his hatred of the Jews is pretty damn high.

Does anyone here not believe the holocaust happened? If so I would like to here your side of the story and I would like to see any evidence to back you're theory up. I believe it happened on a huge scale but I'm fairly skeptical about the causality count.
 
To clear things up he's actually a really cool and chill guy outside of his political and historical beliefs so beating him up isn't an option.
 
i definately believe, i went to the Aushwitz camp and saw it with my own eyes. shits real. it was really interesting to see like rooms of thousands of shoes, then another room just filled with like hundreds of pounds of shaven hair.
 
yes.

and i know someone who is the same, whenever i ask them to explain why they don't think it happened, they change the subject or just say something stupid.
 
Ok he's a self proclaimed Nazi but he doesn't exactly potray it around school. He actually is a chill guy, politcal beliefs don't always have to reflect how an individual acts on a daily basis.

I still want to hear from a skeptic
 
There's nothing to be skeptical about. The evidence from Bergen Belsen ALONE is enough for anyone, demographic polls in Poland before, during, and after are enough for anyone, Auschwitz's records by the Nazis themselves are enough for anyone, the death trains and the accounts by the country people are enough for anyone, the eyewitness accounts are enough for anyone, the soldiers, Nazis, tribunal confessions and photos are enough for anyone.

I'm sorry, but growing up in Europe and learning about what happened right next door to you and seeing all the shrines, tombs and paraphernalia that the Nazis kept behind to put in museum for the "extinct Jewish race", talking to people who survived it, learning from teachers who have talked and seen more than anyone in the world on the matter; hearing that anyone considers themselves a Nazi and can even fathom denying the Holocaust is absolutely frightening.

Seriously: http://www.remember.org/image/003.gif

How do you want to deny that?

Ditch this guy, the vacuum in his head might suck you in.
 
is your self-proclaimed nazi friend who is super chill by any chance jewish also?

on that subject, i once saw a german orthodox jew in the airport...
 
we had a holocaust survivor come to our school last year and the stories he told were crazy, he said that every time he tells a school about them he has nightmare;s for a couple of weeks. he showed us the tattoo they gave him for his number and shit like that, but it was so unbelievable( like crazy, not I didn't believe it!), and like it was almost like you were reading a story or watching a movie, it was a very moving talk and anyone who doesn't believe that it happened NEED'S to hear someone that survived it talk about it
 
O believe me Patty I would never ever fathom denying that the holocaust happened and i've been over hundreds of pictures and eyewitness stories before.

I was just curious to hear from someone who didn't believe it happened.
 
Hmm, I never could really understand why neo nazi guys deny the holocaust... I mean wouldn't you think they would be proud that their cause killed over 5,000,000 Jews? From their standpoint, thats a great accomplishment.

 
I once asked this dude what happened to the 5,000,000 jews and his response was somewhere along the lines of "the Jews created stories before they went to Israel." I never really thought to bring up the millions of Jews who existed before and not after the holocaust or the millions of famillies who knew of family members disapearing after the concentration camps.
 
Well, whatever they tell you, it's not going to be very enlightening. Show him the pictures and see how he interprets them. Show him the confessions of his fellow demonic offspring in what they've done, and see what he says about it.

Dude's death train doesn't go all the way to the death camp. Steer well clear of him.
 
i have been there too its really depressing and interesting at the same time....but beleive it......my grampa lived in poland and was taken to a camp (he was catholic) but he survived the whole thing and would never EVER talk about it
 
good luck, chances are you're not gonna find one. i think talking to this one douche, and no he is NOT a chill and cool guy, has caused you to overestimate how many people share his views. unless the president of Iran has an NS account
 
It has not caused me to change in any way other than being more curious to hear the other side of the fence. As for you comment about overestimated the amount of holocaust-deniers just google it and read for yourself.
 
My family is Polish, and some of them escaped in time. But a couple got sent to camps, and I only got to meet one of my relatives who survived and came over to America. He had the numbers tattooed and everything, but he would never talk about it to anyone. He passed away years ago though..

On the skeptic subject, I asked my history teacher last year why we only spent one day learning about the Holocaust while on the topic of WWII. Her response was, "We don't study it because there are arguments that it didn't even happen." I was absolutely floored. I wanted to punch her in the face.. repeatedly.

I know these kind of people exist, and it sucks, I just don't understand how you can ignore so much evidence.

 
Beating someone up for their political beliefs is a very un democratic thing to do and actually kind of ties in with what the Nazi agenda is. I'm not trying to condone Nazi ism in any way, I think it's very bad, they killed millions of people and have a very frightening political philosophy, but unless someone is an immediate threat to you there is no reason to beat them up. The guy in question is obviously just a kid and its very unlikely he has armed anyone seriously. He will hopefully change his political beliefs when he fully realizes what he says he believes in. I don't see how anyone can deny the holocaust happened though, that's just plain fucked.
 
Germany and the Nazis are two entirely different things. It's true that Nazis had the most power for a time in germany, but it could have been anywhere else too.
 
I looked into this topic a while back and I came to the conclusion that yes, the holocaust happened, but it was blown pretty severely out of proportion to humiliate the defeated Germans.

Even at Austwich or one of the other concentration camps, they've had a plaque up for decades saying something like, "Here died ~3.5 million Jews". They had to revise it to like ~1.5 million due to evidence that suggested the numbers were bloated.

There isn't any evidence that gas chamers were used to kill people. The "gas chambers" were actually designed for delousing clothes. Zyclon-B is an insect killer, and they were using it to help control typhus (typhoid?) outbreaks.

There isn't any evidence of mass graves either. There are a handful of pictures floating around of emancipated bodies being buried, but it isn't clear exactly where the pictures are from, whether those were prisoners with typhus (or typhoid?).

And of course prisoners are going to be malnourished at the end of the war when the country has been so ruined that getting food for its own soldiers and civilians has become a challenge.

There don't seem to be enough crematoriums to burn 6 million people either....

I'll go look for some references and shit later.

 
hmm i believe in the Holocaust but that didn't prove anything. If they wanted us to believe it happened, they would have been more than happy to build fake camps and just gather a ton of shoes and hair. Probably wouldn't be all that hard.
 
many of you have probably heard of the holocaust writer Eli wiesel. anyway, a kid from a sending distric over from my school flew all the way out to california in an attempt to take his life. he made many accusations saying that the holocaust didnt exist and stalked him into an elevator.

any way, heres a couple articles, hopefully they will help you out
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2007/11/sussex_man_accused_in_attack_o.html
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2007/08/nj_man_apologizes_to_wiesel_ov.html
http://blog.nj.com/ledgerupdates/2007/07/nj_man_enters_insanity_plea_in.html
 
I have lived in Germany.

I have seen it with my own eyes.

I have met 2 people who survived and have pictures of when they were rescued.

It happened.

It was bad.

I could hardly believe the kind of stuff I learned about and I hope nothing even remotely close ever happens again.
 
it wasnt just looking at the hair and shit. it was looking at the pictures, videos, and eyewitness reports.
 
its not that people dont believe that it actually happened. most people would say 'hey, 6 million jews died' but they would say it wasnt a holocaust, it was not an ethnic cleansing or a 'liquidation'. at least the pakistani president who hates jews and said it did not exist acknowledged the deaths, but said it was not part of the nazis plan, etc.

its something pretty hard to deny. it happened in our relatives generation lifetime, no denying it happened
 
wow that is fucking insane. what an idiot. i am reading night in english right now, and i just started today so i'm only on like page 40 but the book is amazing. i don't enjoy reading much but the holocaust REALLY interests me for some reason.
 
Heres the problem:

You didn't see it.

Yea, you saw concentration camps, but there is no more evidence that the Germans were systematically executing Jews in a deliberate effort than there is that the Allies were "holocausting" their own prisoners.

Yes, many prisoners died from disease and malnutrition, but there is simply no evidence of genocide.

Someone show me evidence of that the Holocaust was the genocide of 6 million Jews and I'll show you why you're wrong.
 
"The official (USHMM /Yad Vashem) version of the holohoax maintains that there were six 'death camps' (out of more than 20,000 Nazi concentration camps). So, we've reached an absurdity before we can even lay out the premise of our argument. But, let's persevere. Four of the six 'death camps' were razed before the end of the war. Two are still standing, more or less intact, at Auschwitz and Majdanek.

Visitors tours are conducted at Auschwtiz and Majdanek, and both tours feature fake 'homicidal gas chambers' where Jews were allegedly actually gassed. How do we know the 'gas chambers' are fakes? Because they have large unbarred plate glass windows. See for yourself at

Auschwtiz

http://www.historiography-project.org/misc/doors.html

Majdanek

http://www.ushmm.org/uia-cgi/uia_doc/ph ... 27?hr=null

These are the exactly two 'homicidal gas chambers' in existence, and they both have large unbarred plate glass windows. The 'gas chamber' at Auschwitz is in reality a room in a crematorium, and the 'gas chamber' at Majdanek is in reality a disinfection room used to fumigate clothing.

The purpose of the fumigation room was to delouse clothing using Zyklon, a commercial insecticide. These delousing rooms were the genesis of the 'gas chamber' hoax. Rooms whose purpose was to save lives of the prisoners and camp personnel have been transformed, in the degenerate phantasmagoria of the holohoax, into 'homicidal gas chambers'."

Their "gas chamber death room" has plate glass windows in it.... DON"T YOU THINK IF YOU LOCKED DOZENS OF PEOPLE IN THE ROOM TO KILL THEM THAT ONE MIGHT BREAK THE WINDOW TO GET SOME FRESH AIR?
 
IcePointa my question to you is this and I would like a simple yes or no answer: do you believe the holocaust happened on a scale in which 1,000,000+ jews were killed?
 
I don't know what plaque you could possibly be talking about at Auschwitz-Birkenau. The Nazi numbers have been steady at 1 million or so deaths there in documents and accounts. 1 million people out of 5 or 6 million died there alone.

There's evidence of the gas chambers being used to kill people. There have been eyewitnesses and confessions, from Nazis themselves, of the horrors of the gas chamber, what it looked like to clean the bodies out, the crushed people at the bottm, and asphyxiated mass struggling for the air that zyclon B takes away. You're right, it was a pesticide, used for typhoid outbreaks. But that's the thing: it was inexpensive and readily available, so when the chambers went into full use, they already had their killer.

There's piles upon piles of gassed people's golden tooth fillings, glasses, hair, shoes and hats, collected for resale. All from gas chambers. I don't know where you get off saying there wasn't any evidence for gas chambers...

So many eyewitness accounts, or people who lived through it, of people who admitted to it. Once off the train, you were selected into two lines, one to be gassed, another to work. You know where some people worked? Cleaning out the gas chambers...

There's evidence of mass graves: http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=67845&rendTypeId=4

http://media.commercialappeal.com/mca/content/img/photos/2007/09/13/16genocide1.jpeg

http://z.about.com/d/history1900s/1/0/d/8/einsatz7.jpg

Oh, and the prisoners simply weren't fed. "Of course they're going to be malnourished". Yeah? the SS seemed pretty healthy.

http://z.about.com/d/history1900s/1/0/P/C/dead10.jpg

http://z.about.com/d/history1900s/1/0/N/C/dead13.jpg

That's because 6 million people weren't burned. The crematoriums were among the first things that the Nazis destroyed when the fight was lost, to destroy evidence. Then again, the Auschwitz-Birkenau complex was able to get rid of a million people in a few years, that's plenty for everyone else to pitch in 3 or more million, the rest buried or left for dead wherever they fell.

Oh, and I lived in France most of my life, and my professors have written books on this. I've spoken to plenty of people who were there. I've been to the museums, the graves. I know what I'm talking about.

The numbers of dead varies, some exaggerated, some underreported. But come on dude.
 
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