BASS_PRO_SHOP
Active member
so true. lets grow mullets in opposition of BUSH!
Terrorists
- Thread starter dope-fiend
- Start date
Upgrayedd
Member
So fundamentalism is not the same as intense religious piety? I guess you could claim that Martin Luther demonstrated an intense non-fundamental piety, but in the context of the crusades, I think fundamentalism is an accurate description of the manifestation of the piety.
But enough, this is just semantics at this point.
But enough, this is just semantics at this point.
SteezyMcDizzle
Member
Here is some food for thought for you all:
A quote from Adolf Hitler, 1935
"This year will go down in history. For the first time,
a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer,
our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the
future."
Quotes from founding fathers of this once great nation.
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect
everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve
it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."
-Patrick Henry
"I ask sir, who is the militia? It is the whole people...To
disarm the people, that is the best and most effective way to enslave them..."
- George Mason
"Americans [have] the right and advantage of being armed
-- unlike citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust
people with arms." -James Madison
"...Arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and
the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property.
The balance of power is the scale of peace." -Thomas Paine
"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed;
as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America
cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword because the whole body of people
are armed and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops
that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States..." -Noah
Webster
Mark Twain said " Patriotism is merely a religion, love of
country, worship of country, devotion to the country's flag and
honor and welfare....(In) America it is furnished cut and dried to
the citizen by the politician and the newspaper. The newspaper and
politician manufactured Patriot often gags in private over his dose;
but he takes it, and keeps it on his stomach the best he can.
Blessed are the meek.... He knows the maker would find out- the
maker of his Patriotism- the windy and incoherent six-dollar
sub-editor of his village newspaper-and would bray out in print and
call him a Traitor.... Which is to say, nine-tenths of the Patriots
in ... America turned Traitor to keep from being called Traitor.
Isn't it true? You know it to be true. Isn't it curious.... The
patriot did not know just how or when or where he got his opinions,
neither did he care, so long as he was with what seemed the
majority-which was the main thing, the safe thing, the comfortable
thing."
PAUL HARVEY SAYS....
Are you considering backing gun control
laws? Do you think that because you may not own a gun, the rights guaranteed
by the Second Amendment don't matter?
CONSIDER THIS...
In 1929 the Soviet Union established
gun control. From 1929 to 1953, approximately 20 million dissidents,
unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1911, Turkey established
gun control. From 1915-1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend
themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Germany established gun control
in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, gypsies, homosexuals,
the mentally ill, and others, who were unable to defend themselves, were
rounded up and exterminated.
China established gun control
in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable
to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Guatemala established gun
control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable
to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Uganda established gun control
in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend
themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Cambodia established gun control
in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable
to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Okay..to give you some idea about me. I know how to use a gun, but I haven't fired one in several years. I do not own any guns, but I totally understand the idea that a well armed and WELL EDUCATED population is the strongest deterrent to crime, invasion or tyranny.
What we have in America is a growing population of uninterested and complacent people, who do nothing to stop the awesome greatness of the system their ancestors created erode away.
Instead of focusing on the abuse of power and morality which is taking place in our country every day, we focus on relatively inconsequential issues. Pay attention here and think: Every politician usually gives us the status quo because they argue about matters of degree..as in:
How much should we fuck you this year? Just a little bit or not so much? 10 percent or 15?
Then they add the idea of patriotism to the mix.
Anyone who disagrees with them or the majority opinion is unpatriotic. And anyone who speaks our is a traitor. Anyone who acts out is a terrorist.
In many cases they should be arguing instead about whether something exists at all, and not to what degree it exists.
All of you who think that our economy today is some sort of progression from an abyss of free market every man for himself existence is deeply mistaken. Please go read about Mercantilism and the policies of the British government in the colonies. This type of economy had enormous government regulation. And that is what Americans rebelled against, among with other economic factors.
Britain was essentially telling the colonies what they could create, and where they could send it for trade.
So understand, that my opinions come from principles which are very powerful. It has nothing to do with political parties or any of that stupidity. All that is artificial. Still don't understand? If you look at much of what the "Founding Fathers" said and wrote, you will find that it is not only contrary to our system today, but our public officials generally fail to discuss any of this. This is a double fucking travesty.
So the next time the candidates talk about raising or lowering the income tax, or funding for drug war, or funding for war, ask yourselves these and similar questions:
Why do we even have an income tax? When did it start and why?
Why is pot illegal when it generally makes people happy and calm and cigarettes and alcohol are legal when they make people restless and sometimes violent? What right does anyone have to tell me what I can and cannot put into my body? Can the government ban saturated fat because they believe that it causes heart disease? Can the government ban sugary foods as they are also unhealthy? Should we even be in these wars? Why are we in these wars and who got us into them?etc. etc.
A quote from Adolf Hitler, 1935
"This year will go down in history. For the first time,
a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer,
our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the
future."
Quotes from founding fathers of this once great nation.
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect
everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve
it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."
-Patrick Henry
"I ask sir, who is the militia? It is the whole people...To
disarm the people, that is the best and most effective way to enslave them..."
- George Mason
"Americans [have] the right and advantage of being armed
-- unlike citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust
people with arms." -James Madison
"...Arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and
the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property.
The balance of power is the scale of peace." -Thomas Paine
"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed;
as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America
cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword because the whole body of people
are armed and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops
that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States..." -Noah
Webster
Mark Twain said " Patriotism is merely a religion, love of
country, worship of country, devotion to the country's flag and
honor and welfare....(In) America it is furnished cut and dried to
the citizen by the politician and the newspaper. The newspaper and
politician manufactured Patriot often gags in private over his dose;
but he takes it, and keeps it on his stomach the best he can.
Blessed are the meek.... He knows the maker would find out- the
maker of his Patriotism- the windy and incoherent six-dollar
sub-editor of his village newspaper-and would bray out in print and
call him a Traitor.... Which is to say, nine-tenths of the Patriots
in ... America turned Traitor to keep from being called Traitor.
Isn't it true? You know it to be true. Isn't it curious.... The
patriot did not know just how or when or where he got his opinions,
neither did he care, so long as he was with what seemed the
majority-which was the main thing, the safe thing, the comfortable
thing."
PAUL HARVEY SAYS....
Are you considering backing gun control
laws? Do you think that because you may not own a gun, the rights guaranteed
by the Second Amendment don't matter?
CONSIDER THIS...
In 1929 the Soviet Union established
gun control. From 1929 to 1953, approximately 20 million dissidents,
unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1911, Turkey established
gun control. From 1915-1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend
themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Germany established gun control
in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, gypsies, homosexuals,
the mentally ill, and others, who were unable to defend themselves, were
rounded up and exterminated.
China established gun control
in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable
to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Guatemala established gun
control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable
to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Uganda established gun control
in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend
themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Cambodia established gun control
in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable
to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Okay..to give you some idea about me. I know how to use a gun, but I haven't fired one in several years. I do not own any guns, but I totally understand the idea that a well armed and WELL EDUCATED population is the strongest deterrent to crime, invasion or tyranny.
What we have in America is a growing population of uninterested and complacent people, who do nothing to stop the awesome greatness of the system their ancestors created erode away.
Instead of focusing on the abuse of power and morality which is taking place in our country every day, we focus on relatively inconsequential issues. Pay attention here and think: Every politician usually gives us the status quo because they argue about matters of degree..as in:
How much should we fuck you this year? Just a little bit or not so much? 10 percent or 15?
Then they add the idea of patriotism to the mix.
Anyone who disagrees with them or the majority opinion is unpatriotic. And anyone who speaks our is a traitor. Anyone who acts out is a terrorist.
In many cases they should be arguing instead about whether something exists at all, and not to what degree it exists.
All of you who think that our economy today is some sort of progression from an abyss of free market every man for himself existence is deeply mistaken. Please go read about Mercantilism and the policies of the British government in the colonies. This type of economy had enormous government regulation. And that is what Americans rebelled against, among with other economic factors.
Britain was essentially telling the colonies what they could create, and where they could send it for trade.
So understand, that my opinions come from principles which are very powerful. It has nothing to do with political parties or any of that stupidity. All that is artificial. Still don't understand? If you look at much of what the "Founding Fathers" said and wrote, you will find that it is not only contrary to our system today, but our public officials generally fail to discuss any of this. This is a double fucking travesty.
So the next time the candidates talk about raising or lowering the income tax, or funding for drug war, or funding for war, ask yourselves these and similar questions:
Why do we even have an income tax? When did it start and why?
Why is pot illegal when it generally makes people happy and calm and cigarettes and alcohol are legal when they make people restless and sometimes violent? What right does anyone have to tell me what I can and cannot put into my body? Can the government ban saturated fat because they believe that it causes heart disease? Can the government ban sugary foods as they are also unhealthy? Should we even be in these wars? Why are we in these wars and who got us into them?etc. etc.
cottonwoodarmada1651
Active member
You make a pretty good argument. So call the Crusades an outgrowth of some form of fundamentalism if you like, but you have to admit it's a very loose parallel (at best) to either modern Christian or Islamic fundamentalism.
SteezyMcDizzle
Member
I think the worst possible belief you can have as a good person is that "It cant happen here..to me"
It can happen here. It can happen to you. By then it will probably be too late.
The most patriotic thing, I believe, is dissent and questioning of authority.
Authority is one of the most corruptible positions we have in our society. Anyone who is given authority in society is immediately faced with a myriad of corruptions and abuses which can easily be committed. Not all succumb to this to the same degree, but to keep the system relatively fair there are checks and balances set up so that no one has too much power and so that there is oversight and accountability. Those are words you've all probably heard a lot. Yet our system has become exceedingly corrupt, though I think not nearly as much as some other nations.
I think that business and government should be kept as far from each other as possible. Business should have almost no impact or relationship to the government. The government should regulate business very little, if at all, and only for the purpose of ensuring that business does not begin to control government. Enter multinational corporations. What interests do they serve? Certainly not your or mine or the country's. Yet these corporations have immense power. Anyone who questions this is labeled a socialist or communist. In reality corporatists are more akin to fascists which is far worse than misguided socialism that so called "free marketers" rail against.
I do believe in benefits of a free market, but I think that corporations are not necessarily part of it. They can actually hurt the the economy. And there is nothing as disturbing as the government supporting corporations which act like small countries. The Corporatists talk all kinds of shit against government regulation and public oversight but they have no problem taking public funds to bail themselves out. Its good for all of us they claim. Bull shit.
Don't forget that we are the government. And when the neighborhood plant is spewing toxic chemicals into your river and you are suffering from it, you should have every right to go and shut those fuckers down as a town or community. That's not socialism, that's liberty. Remember people have freedom to do what they want as long as it does not interfere with the liberty and rights of others. Clearly the toxic output of the plant is threatening the rights of the people in the community, so the plant has no right to pollute in this way. I know this is a simple approach, but its really not that complicated. Corporations must be held accountable and punished for their transgressions. The problem is that in many cases these corporations pay people off and so they are given a slap on the wrist and their actions are not much improved.
It can happen here. It can happen to you. By then it will probably be too late.
The most patriotic thing, I believe, is dissent and questioning of authority.
Authority is one of the most corruptible positions we have in our society. Anyone who is given authority in society is immediately faced with a myriad of corruptions and abuses which can easily be committed. Not all succumb to this to the same degree, but to keep the system relatively fair there are checks and balances set up so that no one has too much power and so that there is oversight and accountability. Those are words you've all probably heard a lot. Yet our system has become exceedingly corrupt, though I think not nearly as much as some other nations.
I think that business and government should be kept as far from each other as possible. Business should have almost no impact or relationship to the government. The government should regulate business very little, if at all, and only for the purpose of ensuring that business does not begin to control government. Enter multinational corporations. What interests do they serve? Certainly not your or mine or the country's. Yet these corporations have immense power. Anyone who questions this is labeled a socialist or communist. In reality corporatists are more akin to fascists which is far worse than misguided socialism that so called "free marketers" rail against.
I do believe in benefits of a free market, but I think that corporations are not necessarily part of it. They can actually hurt the the economy. And there is nothing as disturbing as the government supporting corporations which act like small countries. The Corporatists talk all kinds of shit against government regulation and public oversight but they have no problem taking public funds to bail themselves out. Its good for all of us they claim. Bull shit.
Don't forget that we are the government. And when the neighborhood plant is spewing toxic chemicals into your river and you are suffering from it, you should have every right to go and shut those fuckers down as a town or community. That's not socialism, that's liberty. Remember people have freedom to do what they want as long as it does not interfere with the liberty and rights of others. Clearly the toxic output of the plant is threatening the rights of the people in the community, so the plant has no right to pollute in this way. I know this is a simple approach, but its really not that complicated. Corporations must be held accountable and punished for their transgressions. The problem is that in many cases these corporations pay people off and so they are given a slap on the wrist and their actions are not much improved.
SteezyMcDizzle
Member
Admit no such thing. Religion played a role in the lives of medieval Christians in Europe to such a degree that you could never understand without living in those times. So imagine this, and then realize that it was much more than you can imagine.
Islam is a way of life for many. I am not here to judge their beliefs but I want to point out that if the Muslims of today were as fundamentalist as the Christian Crusaders, we would be in a lot more trouble than we are in now. As far as the Fundamentalist Christians today, realize that these ideas are not as prevalent because the level of advancement in our society. Liberal thought has contributed to this improvement in our society. Nevertheless there are still fundamentalist Christians who follow the bible to the letter (even though its a translation) and believe in the prophetic parts of the Bible. For example there are people out there who support Israel because they feel this goes along with the religious prophecy of the Jews going back to Israel. What comes after this in the prophetic time line? The Antichrist comes, and the end of the world or age. The Apocalypse. There are plenty of people who either openly or privately believe in this. I dont think its a majority of Americans, but I think its a significant minority.
If you examine the beliefs and superstitions of many medieval Europeans they would be openly reviling to you now. Hell, damnation, fear, sin would be dominating their life. A call from the Pope could enlist not only superstitious peasants but Kings of countries. To deny religious fundamentalism as a major factors in the Crusades is incorrect. The degree it was a cause is definitely an argument. And although many Christians committed acts which were completely against their espoused beliefs, they still outwardly spoke of God and their religion.
Islam is a way of life for many. I am not here to judge their beliefs but I want to point out that if the Muslims of today were as fundamentalist as the Christian Crusaders, we would be in a lot more trouble than we are in now. As far as the Fundamentalist Christians today, realize that these ideas are not as prevalent because the level of advancement in our society. Liberal thought has contributed to this improvement in our society. Nevertheless there are still fundamentalist Christians who follow the bible to the letter (even though its a translation) and believe in the prophetic parts of the Bible. For example there are people out there who support Israel because they feel this goes along with the religious prophecy of the Jews going back to Israel. What comes after this in the prophetic time line? The Antichrist comes, and the end of the world or age. The Apocalypse. There are plenty of people who either openly or privately believe in this. I dont think its a majority of Americans, but I think its a significant minority.
If you examine the beliefs and superstitions of many medieval Europeans they would be openly reviling to you now. Hell, damnation, fear, sin would be dominating their life. A call from the Pope could enlist not only superstitious peasants but Kings of countries. To deny religious fundamentalism as a major factors in the Crusades is incorrect. The degree it was a cause is definitely an argument. And although many Christians committed acts which were completely against their espoused beliefs, they still outwardly spoke of God and their religion.
SteezyMcDizzle
Member
I forgot to say that I think there are many similarities between Christian fundamentalism of the Crusade era and Islamic fundamentalism today. The Crusades were a reaction to the Muslim capture of the Holy Land, and a lot of current Muslim fundamentalist activity has to do with the takeover of the Holy Land by Jews and their "Crusader" backers. If you don't know Muslims use the word Crusader these days quite a bit, to refer to our forces in Iraq for example. And its not a nice word either. Also our President has also spoke of a Crusade (video of this avail.).
So I think that the mindset of the Crusades is still around on both sides.
So I think that the mindset of the Crusades is still around on both sides.
grown-ninja
Active member
best post on newschoolers hands down
SteezyMcDizzle
Member
Also consider the idea of state terrorism and the justifications of those who are complicit in it.
I fire bombed the city because "I was just following orders or doing what was best and patriotic".
No, you firebombed the city because you were too afraid to disobey orders, even though you knew that you were indiscriminately killing civilians. What is the difference between a soldier shooting unarmed civilians and an airman dropping bombs on unarmed civilians? Hardly any.
I am pretty sure that government sponsored war and terrorism has killed more people directly and as "collateral damage" and has hurt more people's quality of life than any individual terrorists or radical groups. So yes, we should closely scrutinize the abuses of power, rights by our own government, which we have empowered and are complicit with.
I fire bombed the city because "I was just following orders or doing what was best and patriotic".
No, you firebombed the city because you were too afraid to disobey orders, even though you knew that you were indiscriminately killing civilians. What is the difference between a soldier shooting unarmed civilians and an airman dropping bombs on unarmed civilians? Hardly any.
I am pretty sure that government sponsored war and terrorism has killed more people directly and as "collateral damage" and has hurt more people's quality of life than any individual terrorists or radical groups. So yes, we should closely scrutinize the abuses of power, rights by our own government, which we have empowered and are complicit with.
grown-ninja
Active member
people in the middle east are consideded terroristes here in america, however we are the terrorists, establishing bases the size of the vatican in countries which are not ours, if a foreight enitiy such as north korea ever did this to us we would be bombing north korea in the blink of an eye, would that make us terrorists or just people trying to protect out countries sovereignty