Sustainable Skiing

deelonmusk

deelonmusk

Member
Hey NS,

I was originally going to post this in non-ski. But, I think this has just about everything to do with skiing.

I am a Recreation and Outdoor Education / Environment and Sustainability student at Western in Gunnison, Colorado. I am really passionate about the environment, climate change, and sustainable practices. I commonly look at recent research, news, and mitigation strategies regarding climate change and environmental issues. The past few years, I've taken a close eye on everything that skiers and snowboarders do regarding our lifestyles and habits. Then, I've been thinking about exactly how sustainable these things are. Here's what I've noticed:

Many people drive alone to the ski area, or choose to drive rather than take public transportation.

Resort users will leave beer cans/trash/plastic bottles on the hill, rather than taking them to trash cans/recycling on-mountain.

Skiers and boarders will bring their own single-use plastic bottles to the mountain, or buy bottled water/soda on site.

As a whole, we will consume and buy gear without thinking about where it comes from or the effect it has on the planet.

Etcetera...

What I am getting at here, is that ski and snowboard culture itself it quite contradictory. This sport we love, that some of us would die for, depends completely on the natural resources of our fragile globe. Yet, when I look around, it doesn't seem like we are doing much to protect and sustain it. Climate change and land ownership are directly threatening the winter sports industry, and we are acting as if nothing is happening. EPA research indicates that the ski season in Colorado will be shortened 10-50% by 2050. And this is just the length of season, not accounting for snowfall and pow days. I like pow, don't you? Here's some things you can do:

Carpool to the resort with the homies. You better pack that 2007 Subaru Outback to the brim with your crew on a pow day.

Watch your own consumption. Reduce, or completely eliminate meat and dairy products in your diet. #healthgang. When you buy food, try to buy from companies doing good for the world (check the link down low). It's easy to check a companies rating right in store before you drop that cheddar. You vote with your dollars. Buy clothes from thrift stores, you know they have the freshest kits. If you can't, buy from resellers. If you can't, buy from ethical, sustainable companies (check the link down low).

When something breaks, and you know shit does, try your best to repair it first before splurging on some new Candides. This might be a no-brainer for some of you all, but we must be aware that it takes energy, water, and gas to produce the gear we love. Take only what you need, and resell your old stuff that is still safe for use. I'm sure someone out there will appreciate the deal.

Refuse plastics and non-recyclable stuff. Reuse everything you can, recycle what you can't. If you don't buy the bad stuff in the first place, you won't have to deal with it later.

Vote! Your vote goes a long way, and much of the destruction of our planet going on today has to do with local, state, and federal policies. Even better, write a letter or visit your representatives. This is a democracy, believe it or not, and your voice can go a long way.

Check the picture I attached. It is based off of a report done by Environmental Research Letters where they quantify exactly how much you positively impact the earth with each lifestyle choice.

The list goes on. What I am trying to get at is that I believe each person reading this has a responsibility to save skiing and the world in general. I'm sure there are people out there thinking "we're all going to die anyway, it doesn't even matter," or, "the earth will be fine, we are just screwing ourselves over." And I get that. But let me challenge you: I can't imagine how I would live without the wonderful sport and community that is skiing. But, where the world is headed right now, future generations will be without it, and even people skiing right now will lose the thing they love in their lifetimes. I think we owe it to the people who came before us to protect this sport, lifestyle, and hobby; and to the people after us to allow them to enjoy what we build our lives around. Big props to those already taking measures. I know you're out there. Shoutout LSM, Tall T Dan, and many others for sharing the message and setting an example.

Think about it.

Peace and love,

DW

P.S.: check this site for ratings on common companies we all buy from. Remember, there is power in the dollar bill and we vote with our money.https://betterworldshopper.org

Anything I missed?

**This thread was edited on Feb 19th 2019 at 4:03:13pm
 
Yeah, nobody has thought about this before. I've always dumped my used oil and other trash at the ski area but now that I read this I feel like changing the world.

Seems kind of beyond preachy and sort condescending honestly.
 
Honestly voting is way more important than anything else. Corporations are constantly trying to shift the blame for pollution off of themselves and onto consumers.
 
I always pick up trash at resorts. Fucking pisses me off how ignorant people can be throwing bottles, bags, and wrappers outside of a can. Sure some are accidents but damn its annoying.

Same thing goes for hiking. But that's even worse
 
14001506:theabortionator said:
Yeah, nobody has thought about this before. I've always dumped my used oil and other trash at the ski area but now that I read this I feel like changing the world.

Seems kind of beyond preachy and sort condescending honestly.
Click to expand...

I never said no one has thought about it. Like you said, they have, but things don't seem to be any different. Thanks for the input though, it is hard to be positive about this stuff.
 
People have said it already but a little preachy for me, and ultimately isn't addressing the correct problem. Throwing out trash, recycling, carpooling etc. are all common sense things that people should be doing anyways. In my eyes, the key to getting people to participate is by offering incentives that shape habits rather than shaming them for present ones. Ultimately the onus falls heavily on corporations and legislature rather than the individual, so I think that encouraging people to seek change on a larger platform (voting, writing into senators etc.) is going to be more effective than shaming them for not throwing out garbage or carpooling.

/end my (ironically) preachy .02
 
i would also like to point out that while skiing in Colorado and Utah might be doomed, a lot of places in the subarctic are predicted to get wetter and snowier. Skiing isn't going away, it's just moving farther north.
 
14001566:NightFantasies said:
People have said it already but a little preachy for me, and ultimately isn't addressing the correct problem. Throwing out trash, recycling, carpooling etc. are all common sense things that people should be doing anyways. In my eyes, the key to getting people to participate is by offering incentives that shape habits rather than shaming them for present ones. Ultimately the onus falls heavily on corporations and legislature rather than the individual, so I think that encouraging people to seek change on a larger platform (voting, writing into senators etc.) is going to be more effective than shaming them for not throwing out garbage or carpooling.

/end my (ironically) preachy .02
Click to expand...

I was not trying to shame anyone, I don't think I did, and sorry if it came across as so. Yes, you're right, this is a bigger problem than recycling. Small things do have an effect, though. Like I said, people drive the corporations. You vote with your dollar and if you vote for Exxon, Kraft and Walmart then they'll continue to do what they do. Don't buy from them and demand more from them then you'll see change. Same thing goes for legislature. Thanks for the good points my friend. This is a great article that ties into what you said:https://orionmagazine.org/article/forget-shorter-showers/
 
14001550:Getshifty said:
Really we need to focus on big corporations, they products 70% of the worlds greenhouse gasses
Click to expand...

To produce the stuff people buy... Make sure your $$ goes to the companies doing something about it.

But anyway, it's not one or the other, both people and big corporations need to make an effort, change starts somewhere and it's not in a board meeting, corporations will never make the changes needed unless society as a whole changes.

We're going in the right direction, but it's pretty slow, maybe too slow to stop the inevitable, that's the main problem.
 
The irony is park skiing itself is extremely unsustainable if you think about all the energy to make snow and to run PistenBully's every night. Glenn Plake outlined it pretty well in his Powell Podcast episode where he talks about what it takes to build a halfpipe. Personally, I believe CO2 is something plants breath and is not our primary environmental concern compared to plastics proliferation, heavy metal toxins and dwindling fresh water resources. That is the thing that bothers me about 'Climate change'. We all act like some kind of Carbon Credit scam or preachy ski film is going to save the environment from CO2 while we have microplastics in our environment from Fast Fashion and disposable clothing, huge piles of perfectly good smart phones being smelted down in 3rd world countries, a giant floating plastic patch in the Pacific Ocean and government sponsored worthless GMO corn grown across America while Hemp is Federally illegal. If we spent half the political will to solve these issues that we dump into Climate Change we will do far better for this planet.

As such, I still rock the same ski jacket I bought in 2005, the same leather gloves I bought in 2006, my ski quiver consists of 2007 4FRNT VCTs and 2010 4FRNT CRJ's I got on Craigslist, I drive a 30 mpg Subaru Impreza, bring a stainless steel water bottle and snacks with me and use the same flip phone I have had for years. So yeah, buy quality gear and keep it rocking as long as you can and stay away from the 'planned obsolesce' scam.

One big thing you need to check is the underlying economic issue behind our disposable society. It all goes back to the Federal Reserve which is a quasi-private bank that conjures money out of thin air then loans it to the US treasury with interest, this money is then loaned to corporations and every dollar that is printed makes the money in circulation worth less. So, the problem is corporations need to always keep their stock prices increasing so the seething masses of investors can try to beat inflation caused by the Federal Reserve. Thus, every year the corporations need to do more desperate and morally bankrupt outsourcing, pollution and tricking the consumer into buying disposable garbage to keep the whole system going. That is the whole point of having currency backed by Gold, its so the government and banks cant print a bunch of currency to paper over bad policy decisions. So if you really want to help the environment, legalize Hemp at the federal level, get rid of garbage food subsidies and return the US back to a Gold based currency.
 
Yea good for u man!

I really think that we should protect the environment anyway we can but i do think the it will take a bit of time before we as people can all do everything to protect it but i think that we should all try!
 
14001577:SuspiciousFish said:
The irony is park skiing itself is extremely unsustainable if you think about all the energy to make snow and to run PistenBully's every night. Glenn Plake outlined it pretty well in his Powell Podcast episode where he talks about what it takes to build a halfpipe. Personally, I believe CO2 is something plants breath and is not our primary environmental concern compared to plastics proliferation, heavy metal toxins and dwindling fresh water resources. That is the thing that bothers me about 'Climate change'. We all act like some kind of Carbon Credit scam or preachy ski film is going to save the environment from CO2 while we have microplastics in our environment from Fast Fashion and disposable clothing, huge piles of perfectly good smart phones being smelted down in 3rd world countries, a giant floating plastic patch in the Pacific Ocean and government sponsored worthless GMO corn grown across America while Hemp is Federally illegal. If we spent half the political will to solve these issues that we dump into Climate Change we will do far better for this planet.

As such, I still rock the same ski jacket I bought in 2005, the same leather gloves I bought in 2006, my ski quiver consists of 2007 4FRNT VCTs and 2010 4FRNT CRJ's I got on Craigslist, I drive a 30 mpg Subaru Impreza, bring a stainless steel water bottle and snacks with me and use the same flip phone I have had for years. So yeah, buy quality gear and keep it rocking as long as you can and stay away from the 'planned obsolesce' scam.

One big thing you need to check is the underlying economic issue behind our disposable society. It all goes back to the Federal Reserve which is a quasi-private bank that conjures money out of thin air then loans it to the US treasury with interest, this money is then loaned to corporations and every dollar that is printed makes the money in circulation worth less. So, the problem is corporations need to always keep their stock prices increasing so the seething masses of investors can try to beat inflation caused by the Federal Reserve. Thus, every year the corporations need to do more desperate and morally bankrupt outsourcing, pollution and tricking the consumer into buying disposable garbage to keep the whole system going. That is the whole point of having currency backed by Gold, its so the government and banks cant print a bunch of currency to paper over bad policy decisions. So if you really want to help the environment, legalize Hemp at the federal level, get rid of garbage food subsidies and return the US back to a Gold based currency.
Click to expand...

You bring up a bunch of great points that are often overlooked, thank you. There is so much involved in all of this that it is hard to encapsulate all of it in one report, movie, anything. Plastics are a big issue and so is our "disposable society" as you called it. However, I'd argue that climate change is one of the greatest problems facing humankind currently. If we go on as we are now, the earth will become inhabitable and skiing won't be an inkling of an issue anymore.
 
14001506:theabortionator said:
Yeah, nobody has thought about this before. I've always dumped my used oil and other trash at the ski area but now that I read this I feel like changing the world.

Seems kind of beyond preachy and sort condescending honestly.
Click to expand...

Yea you're doing a lot more good for the climate sitting there making jokes. Good thing you're not preachy tho!
 
What? You really think the small industry of skiing has a impact on the environment? Downvote me

now but if the high likelihood of a global solar minium comes true you will definitely see me revive this when we are having a super winter next year. This was a really lazy attempt to try to tell us that we are killing the environment but of course you can't prove it. I don't know what you are studying but it has to be extremely oriented towards social issues and doesn't discuss science. If you were a geology student or ecology student I would say maybe you have a case but it's clear that your rhetoric only expands to what the media and a few hand-picked NASA articles tell you. I have learned that it's best not to be political on here but if you wish to pontificate on the front page I see no issue in responding. You do understand that recycling itself is extremely inefficient, the only thing that really is somewhat plausible is metal cans, most plastics/paper/fabric's will end up in a landfill except due to your narrative they took triple the energy to get there. I'm not against sustainability, just as a principal I don't like to waste things. The fact is as much as I love skiing and would not trade it for the world humans are a tropical being and are not adept to living in cold climates like other animals. If you look at the Milankovitch cycle, which many top ecologists and geologist hold in high regard, it's proven the most livable time on Earth is when the atmosphere is warmer. So I guess, you would rather ski for a extra 20 days than have people eat.
 
14001602:Cryptno said:
What? You really think the small industry of skiing has a impact on the environment? Downvote me

now but if the high likelihood of a global solar minium comes true you will definitely see me revive this when we are having a super winter next year. This was a really lazy attempt to try to tell us that we are killing the environment but of course you can't prove it. I don't know what you are studying but it has to be extremely oriented towards social issues and doesn't discuss science. If you were a geology student or ecology student I would say maybe you have a case but it's clear that your rhetoric only expands to what the media and a few hand-picked NASA articles tell you. I have learned that it's best not to be political on here but if you wish to pontificate on the front page I see no issue in responding. You do understand that recycling itself is extremely inefficient, the only thing that really is somewhat plausible is metal cans, most plastics/paper/fabric's will end up in a landfill except due to your narrative they took triple the energy to get there. I'm not against sustainability, just as a principal I don't like to waste things. The fact is as much as I love skiing and would not trade it for the world humans are a tropical being and are not adept to living in cold climates like other animals. If you look at the Milankovitch cycle, which many top ecologists and geologist hold in high regard, it's proven the most livable time on Earth is when the atmosphere is warmer. So I guess, you would rather ski for a extra 20 days than have people eat.
Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying, but that's not what I am getting at. Skiing doesn't negatively effect the environment as much as anything else out there. Relatively, as an industry, it is quite good as a whole; but it could be better. I can't prove it myself, but I can lead you to facts that might. 97% of scientists believe the climate is changing. 91% believe humans have a role in this change of climate. And these scientists are in consensus that there will be serious negative effects on all humans in the coming years due to this change in climate. A good read is "Society and the Environment" by Michael Carolan, which I drew these facts from.
 
Preachy green weenie skiers are the fucking worst. Absolute hypocrisy most the time

Hey guys, let's carpool our new SUV to the resort where they pump water uphill, spray it into the air to freeze and then mow it down with heavy machinery. Then, instead of climbing up the hill we have some huge electric motors that we run all season long to get to the top. Let's not forget how inefficient snowmobiles are, and how necessary they are for the entire operation, too.

Too cold? Don't worry, warm up in the lodge where any basic items of consumption have had to be hauled into the mountains because you couldn't wait on chicken tendies till you got home

Oh boy, you know we could go to '_____' on our epikonic pass? Yeah, let's just send our ass 6 miles in the air to go accross the globe to slide on snow, what a fun trip! Hey guys, be sure to carpool tho to save the planet.

Skiing is inherently based around excess consumption. There are thousands of better sports to choose if you care about the environment more than skiing. But you don't. You'd rather tell me to not eat meat.
 
14001627:Biffbarf said:
Preachy green weenie skiers are the fucking worst. Absolute hypocrisy most the time

Hey guys, let's carpool our new SUV to the resort where they pump water uphill, spray it into the air to freeze and then mow it down with heavy machinery. Then, instead of climbing up the hill we have some huge electric motors that we run all season long to get to the top. Let's not forget how inefficient snowmobiles are, and how necessary they are for the entire operation, too.

Too cold? Don't worry, warm up in the lodge where any basic items of consumption have had to be hauled into the mountains because you couldn't wait on chicken tendies till you got home

Oh boy, you know we could go to '_____' on our epikonic pass? Yeah, let's just send our ass 6 miles in the air to go accross the globe to slide on snow, what a fun trip! Hey guys, be sure to carpool tho to save the planet.

Skiing is inherently based around excess consumption. There are thousands of better sports to choose if you care about the environment more than skiing. But you don't. You'd rather tell me to not eat meat.
Click to expand...

Yes, skiing is not good for the environment whatsoever. I'm saying we should do our best to offset that. The argument you make is that if I am to do everything in my power to care for the environment, I should stop skiing. Yes, that would definitely save emissions, energy, water, the list goes on. But you're wrong: if I am to do everything for the benefit I should kill myself. One less person to use resources on, man, how much I would save!

Obviously that's not a good strategy. A good life to live for me involves skiing, and I am saying that for the good of skiing and the world in general we should take a good look on how we live, maybe you'll come to change a few things. That's all.

I suggest this article if you're looking for a good read.https://orionmagazine.org/article/forget-shorter-showers/
 
14001572:dylanwood said:
I was not trying to shame anyone, I don't think I did, and sorry if it came across as so. Yes, you're right, this is a bigger problem than recycling. Small things do have an effect, though. Like I said, people drive the corporations. You vote with your dollar and if you vote for Exxon, Kraft and Walmart then they'll continue to do what they do. Don't buy from them and demand more from them then you'll see change. Same thing goes for legislature. Thanks for the good points my friend. This is a great article that ties into what you said:https://orionmagazine.org/article/forget-shorter-showers/
Click to expand...

the "you vote with your dollar" concept only really goes so far though since the odds are totally stacked against green industry. Industrial agriculture is heavily subsidized by the government, and the fossil fuel industry donates millions to conservative lawmakers so they pass pro fossil fuel laws. The playing field isn't even close to level, and as long as the government continues to allow the destruction of the environment in the name of convenience and increasing profits, people will continue to do it.
 
I have a degree in sustainability as well and the ski industry is far far far from sustainable. Sustainable skiing is an oxymoron. That being said you can do the best you can but your still putting wax from your base into the fresh water ways. Your still using energy to lift you to the top of the lift. Your still on a pair of skis that was sourced globally to create. Your still supporting a sport whose strives for a client base of rich and famous people to fly across the globe and stay in their mansions that have heat floors year round just for their Christmas vacation. Large strides can be made by the local skier and I always love to see how technology can be used to soften impacts. Haven’t done it but there’s that company that does the phantom base where you never need to wax. Not sure how intensive that is to source. Bamboo poles are dope. Picture uses recycled plastics to make their shit. Patigonia does good environmental shit. We are a ways away but the potential is there.
 
14001602:Cryptno said:
What? You really think the small industry of skiing has a impact on the environment? Downvote me

now but if the high likelihood of a global solar minium comes true you will definitely see me revive this when we are having a super winter next year. This was a really lazy attempt to try to tell us that we are killing the environment but of course you can't prove it. I don't know what you are studying but it has to be extremely oriented towards social issues and doesn't discuss science. If you were a geology student or ecology student I would say maybe you have a case but it's clear that your rhetoric only expands to what the media and a few hand-picked NASA articles tell you. I have learned that it's best not to be political on here but if you wish to pontificate on the front page I see no issue in responding. You do understand that recycling itself is extremely inefficient, the only thing that really is somewhat plausible is metal cans, most plastics/paper/fabric's will end up in a landfill except due to your narrative they took triple the energy to get there. I'm not against sustainability, just as a principal I don't like to waste things. The fact is as much as I love skiing and would not trade it for the world humans are a tropical being and are not adept to living in cold climates like other animals. If you look at the Milankovitch cycle, which many top ecologists and geologist hold in high regard, it's proven the most livable time on Earth is when the atmosphere is warmer. So I guess, you would rather ski for a extra 20 days than have people eat.
Click to expand...

bruh I was a geo major and just because milankovitch cycles are a thing doesn't mean dumping a fuckload of co2 into the atmosphere will do nothing to the planet
 
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