Should we accept REFUGEES?

[Rice]

Okay so I'm writing a speech which I have to hand in (I don't read it out), and I had chosen to write about refugees.

I'm Australian, but I'm sure you can relate to something similar.

What are your views/opinions on the matter? I really want to get a comprehensive view of what others think. I'm assuming most people here are more left wing orientated.

So NS, help me out please. Voice your opinion and why you think so. I'm predominantly talking about current refuges that are escaping conflict in the middle east.

 

[KravtZ]

No we shouldn't. Let Europe deal with it they obviously made a huge mistake taking them in. We can't/don't want them.

I would be fine bringing in refugees, etc when everyone veteran who is homeless is housed and fed. Why should we bring people in with zero job skills, can't speak out language, don't want to adapt to our culture (sharia law), etc.

 

[Tinga]

No we shouldn't. Let Europe deal with it they obviously made a huge mistake taking them in. We can't/don't want them.

I would be fine bringing in refugees, etc when everyone veteran who is homeless is housed and fed. Why should we bring people in with zero job skills, can't speak out language, don't want to adapt to our culture (sharia law), etc.

don't be such a scaredy cat

 

[KravtZ]

don't be such a scaredy cat

Look at what is happening in Europe...you want that to happen to the US?

And forgetting about just bringing them over...how do these people expect to survive with no job skills, English language proficiency, etc?

They are going to be supported by the good ole tax payers of the USA. I am sorry...as a responsible working tax payer...I don't want to bring in leeches who will do nothing but abuse the system to its fullest.

And you still didn't answer my question...what about all the homeless veterans on the street? Until they are housed, fed, given money like the refugees... i just cant support it

 

[coolflash8]

its very easy to jump on the bandwagon of "Fuck refugees" but if you step back and use your high brain it actually makes sense to let them in. If those poor fuckers come to our first world countries and see how amazing democracy (LOL), freedom, and no fucking religion is. They will then renounce their vows to ALLAH and MUHAMMAD and they will become regular citizens! This refugee crisis is the best opportunity we have to modernize the middle east, and once they are educated and FREED they can go back to their countries and make it paradise

 

[foolmetwice]

Look at what is happening in Europe...you want that to happen to the US?

And forgetting about just bringing them over...how do these people expect to survive with no job skills, English language proficiency, etc?

They are going to be supported by the good ole tax payers of the USA. I am sorry...as a responsible working tax payer...I don't want to bring in leeches who will do nothing but abuse the system to its fullest.

And you still didn't answer my question...what about all the homeless veterans on the street? Until they are housed, fed, given money like the refugees... i just cant support it

Jesus christ "leeches who will do nothing but abuse the system to the fullest" these are literally people who will die if they don't leave their countries, have had family members and friends killed, have been living in hell probably their whole lives, are risking their lives and that of their children to even make it to Europe or wherever else, and not only are you against helping them as any moral person would try too, you then fucking belittle them.

 

[JGWI]

The way I see it is Id dare bet 99% of people who say they are against accepting refugees if given the chance to go over there would change their mind in a heart beat. This idea that we are going to be letting terrorists in is blown way out of proportion. Why? Because they are already living here (in the US at least! So I doubt adding a few more to the pot of the thousands that are already here is going to really change anything.

Now, I don't think the amount that we are proposing to let in is going to even make a dent in the problem, therefor perhaps we best approach the issue differently and deal with the core problem rather than it's side effects.

The amount of blood spilled in this world for stupid shit like this is the true reason why the aliens haven't visited us.

 

[.MASSHOLE.]

Look at what is happening in Europe...you want that to happen to the US?

And forgetting about just bringing them over...how do these people expect to survive with no job skills, English language proficiency, etc?

They are going to be supported by the good ole tax payers of the USA. I am sorry...as a responsible working tax payer...I don't want to bring in leeches who will do nothing but abuse the system to its fullest.

And you still didn't answer my question...what about all the homeless veterans on the street? Until they are housed, fed, given money like the refugees... i just cant support it

It is impossible to compare the situation in Europe to the situation in the US.

EU countries have to deal with these migrants coming into their countries in a variety of different methods. Some come from the porous Turkish border, some come across the ocean, and various other methods.

This is why the EU situation is so fucked. They have no vetting methods, they have no screens, they have a border system that makes it incredibly easy for them to get in. Once they are in it is difficult to turn them away.

The US however, has a very different situation. They are not experiencing a massive uncontrolled rush of refugees into the country, they are able to vet and accurately track these people. That is not to safe it is a perfect method, there certainly are people in these groups who are undesirable for one reason or another.

However, you bring up a good point in questioning how to assimilate and to frankly allow these people to be benefits to our society. I imagine the system examines their abilities and trys to take ones it feels are beneficial, but who knows.

 

[saskskier]

I think if a country has the means to help others in crisis, it should. That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be security checks and due diligence, but this whole 'OMG, they're all terrorists and going to blow us up so we should keep them all out' attitude has got to stop.

I live in a town of about 13,000. Probably a good 1/4-1/3 of the population are new Canadian's or refugees and are Muslim and guess what? No one is blowing us up and women aren't being raped.

I'm a social worker and I see people at their worst. There are definitely some challenges around cultural differences and parenting kids, but for the most part, once they find out you can't do certain things here (ie - beat your kids), they stop.

 

[.Hugo.]

Youre gonna use proples opinions on an internet forum as sources? Jebus

 

[CabbyArrant]

I think if a country has the means to help others in crisis, it should. That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be security checks and due diligence, but this whole 'OMG, they're all terrorists and going to blow us up so we should keep them all out' attitude has got to stop.

I live in a town of about 13,000. Probably a good 1/4-1/3 of the population are new Canadian's or refugees and are Muslim and guess what? No one is blowing us up and women aren't being raped.

I'm a social worker and I see people at their worst. There are definitely some challenges around cultural differences and parenting kids, but for the most part, once they find out you can't do certain things here (ie - beat your kids), they stop.

This is a very reasonable response but at some point too I feel that our country needs to stop putting its nose where it doesn't belong and start taking care of the people that already live here

We have homeless vets, dysfunctional social systems, a disorganized and expensive education system, and the most dangerous candidate for president the US has ever seen. We as a country aren't what we used to be.

 

[FrenchFry]

Have you ever debated whether or not to put your boner in your waste band. Boom. there yo go.

 

[Rice]

Youre gonna use proples opinions on an internet forum as sources? Jebus

everyone has an opinion nonetheless. it should be interesting to see what others think and why they do so

Have you ever put your boner in your waste band.

don't normally put my dick into rubbish, but I'll put in on my bucket list

 

[robbinJAHood]

Yes we should. Put yourself in their shoes. Compassion for others is one of the biggest things missing from our society

 

[TOAST.]

its very easy to jump on the bandwagon of "Fuck refugees" but if you step back and use your high brain it actually makes sense to let them in. If those poor fuckers come to our first world countries and see how amazing democracy (LOL), freedom, and no fucking religion is. They will then renounce their vows to ALLAH and MUHAMMAD and they will become regular citizens! This refugee crisis is the best opportunity we have to modernize the middle east, and once they are educated and FREED they can go back to their countries and make it paradise

I'm more worried about them coming here and start to hate us because all the loud mouthed bigots. I'm all for helping them though.

 

[coolflash8]

I'm more worried about them coming here and start to hate us because all the loud mouthed bigots. I'm all for helping them though.

if that happens we go to plan B and execute for ALLAH so they get their VIRGINS and we take ISIS style NASHEED and play it while we execute them. #AMERICAISALREADYGREAT

 

[Laurent.]

It is impossible to compare the situation in Europe to the situation in the US.

EU countries have to deal with these migrants coming into their countries in a variety of different methods. Some come from the porous Turkish border, some come across the ocean, and various other methods.

This is why the EU situation is so fucked. They have no vetting methods, they have no screens, they have a border system that makes it incredibly easy for them to get in. Once they are in it is difficult to turn them away.

The US however, has a very different situation. They are not experiencing a massive uncontrolled rush of refugees into the country, they are able to vet and accurately track these people. That is not to safe it is a perfect method, there certainly are people in these groups who are undesirable for one reason or another.

However, you bring up a good point in questioning how to assimilate and to frankly allow these people to be benefits to our society. I imagine the system examines their abilities and trys to take ones it feels are beneficial, but who knows.

To elaborate on another painful part, it's not one giant country receiving immigrants. It's a collection of countries with very different cultures and values and benefits.

Hence the reason most refugees aren't content in staying in lovely Romania, when Germany, England, the Netherlands, Sweden, Norway all give you princely sums of money. If you are really fleeing from war you'd already be content with "no war" in a stable country. But they want more, and I can't blame them, I would do the same in their situation. But to seem them refuse food and water in Eastern-European countries and then claim the governments aren't helping them is despicable.

The dangerous 'trek' is something they undertake on their own.

Yes we should. Put yourself in their shoes. Compassion for others is one of the biggest things missing from our society

Most are economic refugees. Just 20% is from Syria. And again I'd do the same, doesn't make it the right thing. Or the wrong thing definitely not from their perspective.

And no that is no Trumpian speak. That is pretty much fact, from Eurostat which is a Directorate-General of the European Commission.

I'm an incredibly compassionate being, yet lamenting the current manner in which the EU created an incredibly large influx of people from a vastly different culture, who do not share the same values, nor a language is a sign of being uncompassionate. It's just no solution.

Europe is playing the roll of the cat lady who adopts 67 cats but still wants to help them all, she can't and she never will be able to.

 

[000000000000]

 

[skierman]

Look at what is happening in Europe...you want that to happen to the US?

And forgetting about just bringing them over...how do these people expect to survive with no job skills, English language proficiency, etc?

They are going to be supported by the good ole tax payers of the USA. I am sorry...as a responsible working tax payer...I don't want to bring in leeches who will do nothing but abuse the system to its fullest.

And you still didn't answer my question...what about all the homeless veterans on the street? Until they are housed, fed, given money like the refugees... i just cant support it

You're completely ignorant about this whole situation and the people involved, aren't you? You can't support it because you're clueless about the crisis, that's why. Go read an article about who these refugees are, how their region became a war zone and how many western countries including the US were directly involved in that.

But really though, you're completely right. Everyone is leaving because they have no job skills, not because the hospital/school/house they're a part of at got blown the hell up by barrel bombs or Russian airstrikes. And you're correct because no one of Muslim faith has EVER immigrated into the US so we know its completely impossible....

As for the homeless vet situation, our government isn't doing crap about that refugees or not. Its not like they took money set aside to helping vets to help out refugees, you clueless idiot.

 

[Campeador]

Jesus christ "leeches who will do nothing but abuse the system to the fullest" these are literally people who will die if they don't leave their countries, have had family members and friends killed, have been living in hell probably their whole lives, are risking their lives and that of their children to even make it to Europe or wherever else, and not only are you against helping them as any moral person would try too, you then fucking belittle them.

Thank you

 

[SFB]

no

 

[Panta.Pow]

I'm from Italy and the migrant crisis has taken it's toll on the nation and on the EU, but we need to keep allowing refugees in our countries and deal with them better. Not enough is being done is simply how i'm going to put it. There's migrants who have been sitting in welcome centers for the past 2 years without hearing about a identity card or the equivalent of a social security number.

we, as the EU, need to work harder to make sure the situation doesn't escalate to an extent where we really won't be able to control it.

 

[Laurent.]

no

Western European countries, the endpoint for most refugees, are among the most densely populated countries in the world. Scandinavia has space, but that's cold reindeerland.

I'm from Italy and the migrant crisis has taken it's toll on the nation and on the EU, but we need to keep allowing refugees in our countries and deal with them better. Not enough is being done is simply how i'm going to put it. There's migrants who have been sitting in welcome centers for the past 2 years without hearing about a identity card or the equivalent of a social security number.

we, as the EU, need to work harder to make sure the situation doesn't escalate to an extent where we really won't be able to control it.

'We' already can't control it anymore, it has already escalated beyond control. Strained relations between countries to a new low and brought social polarisation amongst most of the EU.

 

[Campeador]

Today's refugees, tomorrow's terrorists

 

[act.resist]

I believe that we should help anyone who is in need regardless of how little we have to offer.

#inspirationalfacebookmomquotes

 

[Dorf.]

Today's refugees, tomorrow's terrorists

Just because someone posts it online doesn't mean it's real. Stuff like this is solely created for oblivious people like you to share, to create fear and hatred. The guy in the pictures was actually apart of the Free Syrian Army who are fighting against ISIS. (Don't take my word for it - look it up) Next time think a little bit before you share random cancerous shit you see on Facebook.

 

[PeppermillReno]

You're completely ignorant about this whole situation and the people involved, aren't you? You can't support it because you're clueless about the crisis, that's why. Go read an article about who these refugees are, how their region became a war zone and how many western countries including the US were directly involved in that.

But really though, you're completely right. Everyone is leaving because they have no job skills, not because the hospital/school/house they're a part of at got blown the hell up by barrel bombs or Russian airstrikes. And you're correct because no one of Muslim faith has EVER immigrated into the US so we know its completely impossible....

As for the homeless vet situation, our government isn't doing crap about that refugees or not. Its not like they took money set aside to helping vets to help out refugees, you clueless idiot.

You're the clueless one if you think these people are all from war torn countries and not economic opportunists who see and open door and are going for it. The guy you quoted said that in his posts and you totally ignored it in your response no less.

Seriously someone needs to put you down honestly dude the posts you make when you are being serious and not trolling are actually 10x worse and more stupid than your clown ass troll fake tough guy shit talking ones.

You must fuck up at least 20 orders a day at your job I bet its a 50-50 shot someone gets nuggets when they order a big mac if you're the one taking it. (You probably just sweep up and clean the toilets though doubt you are on the register.)

 

[Laurent.]

Just because someone posts it online doesn't mean it's real. Stuff like this is solely created for oblivious people like you to share, to create fear and hatred. The guy in the pictures was actually apart of the Free Syrian Army who are fighting against ISIS. (Don't take my word for it - look it up) Next time think a little bit before you share random cancerous shit you see on Facebook.

Ah, muh moderate rebels meme has reached so far.

You do know the 'Free Syrian Army' is hardly fighting Isis (depends on region and branch) and composed of over 300 groups including Al Nusra, Sham legion, etc... And in 2013 U.S. senior military officials speaking on condition of anonymity indicated that the Pentagon estimates that "extreme Islamist groups" constitute "more than 50 percent" of the Free Syrian Army with the percentage "growing by the day"

They have been committing war crimes and atrocities from day one.

Also, yes the rebels are fighting against ISIS, and so is the Syrian army, the YPG, the Russians, The international coalition, Hezbollah, etc..

It's a complete clusterfuck. But that that guy may have been an FSA rebel, whom may have fought against ISIS doesn't put him in the clear.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/other/extremist-element-among-syrian-rebels-growing-worry-f8C11115141

 

[S.J.W]

No we shouldn't. Let Europe deal with it they obviously made a huge mistake taking them in. We can't/don't want them.

I would be fine bringing in refugees, etc when everyone veteran who is homeless is housed and fed. Why should we bring people in with zero job skills, can't speak out language, don't want to adapt to our culture (sharia law), etc.

Stop fucking using vets and homeless as scapegoats. You fucking vote republican. When was the last time your political party did anything to help the homeless and vets?

 

[.MASSHOLE.]

Ah, muh moderate rebels meme has reached so far.

You do know the 'Free Syrian Army' is hardly fighting Isis (depends on region and branch) and composed of over 300 groups including Al Nusra, Sham legion, etc... And in 2013 U.S. senior military officials speaking on condition of anonymity indicated that the Pentagon estimates that "extreme Islamist groups" constitute "more than 50 percent" of the Free Syrian Army with the percentage "growing by the day"

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/other/extremist-element-among-syrian-rebels-growing-worry-f8C11115141

Quoting for emphasis. Al Nusra are the Syrian branch of Al-Qaeda which should say enough about who they are.

I saw this article this morning, rather ironic.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/22/syrians-rescue-german-far-right-stefan-jagsch-from-car-crash-wreckage?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

[S.J.W]

You're the clueless one if you think these people are all from war torn countries and not economic opportunists who see and open door and are going for it. The guy you quoted said that in his posts and you totally ignored it in your response no less.

Seriously someone needs to put you down honestly dude the posts you make when you are being serious and not trolling are actually 10x worse and more stupid than your clown ass troll fake tough guy shit talking ones.

You must fuck up at least 20 orders a day at your job I bet its a 50-50 shot someone gets nuggets when they order a big mac if you're the one taking it. (You probably just sweep up and clean the toilets though doubt you are on the register.)

Okay lets say that these people are economic migrants? Is there anything wrong with that? I can move over seas at any time to better my life, or start a job. How am I any different to these people wanting to better their lives? And as far as all the bullshit you and others love to propagate about wah wah my tax dollars. It's important to remember that in 19 out of 20 European countries, mass migration will benefit the economy in the long run.

 

[Laurent.]

It's important to remember that in 19 out of 20 European countries, mass migration will benefit the economy in the long run.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

No.

A month or two ago there was a report for German paper Die Welt entitled "The Truth about the Refugee Job Wonder" that asked if German Chancellor Angela Merkel's pronouncement that migrants will be the "labour revitalisation" of Germany is actually true?

It turns out Syrians, Afghans and Iraqis are more likely to be unemployed than the average German by a large margin.

The Institute for Employment Research (IAB)(1) has conducted research into migrant employment rates and found that in the case of Syrians their employment rate has dropped from 32 percent to only 9 percent as recently as last November.

Afghanis and Iraqis, who are increasingly becoming a larger proportion of migrants coming into the EU according to Frontex, don't fare much better, with Afghan employment participation going from 37.6 percent to 24.5 percent and Iraqi employment going down from 34 percent to 25.3 percent over the same five year period.

To put this in perspective, the employment rate of the average German is 67.3 percent.

Migrants have an especially difficult time and even those with professional qualifications tend to have a hard time becoming employed due to differences in culture, language barrier, nationally recognised qualifications and the incentive. The amount of time to enter the workforce presents huge problems for the welfare system that the migrants are thought to be able to prop up.

Migration in Western European countries that already have all tiers of labour covered receive no economic benefits from migration. For example the labour market participation and educational level of all generations of Turks and Moroccans, the largest minorities of non-European Economic Area origin in Germany/Netherlands since the 1960s, remains low, especially among women.

Also, Turkish unemployment in Germany/Netherlands is higher than average.

It won't suddenly solve itself in the next decade by education and by then you have spent hundreds of thousands on maybe a a single person.

1.http://frontex.europa.eu/assets/Publications/Risk_Analysis/AFIC/AFIC_report_2015.pdf

 

[Jihaddist_jibber]

Many of the "refugees" that are flooding into Europe are just people who throw away their documents and go to Europe in search of a better life, which they expect will be free for them because they say they are desperate and in need. They go to Europe and demand apartments, high quality food, and money for them to spend. Many countries already have problems with homeless and the unemployed who they are trying to help out. There have been many cases where these "refugees", who are accustom to long dresses, see a woman wearing a short shirt and they rape her.

 

[JayRich]

I say bring them in and conduct thorough investigations and for a while hold them in some type of detention facility until we feel they are trustworthy enough to assimilate into our society. It's wrong to turn these people away. A vast majority of them are running away from terror which we want to stop. Being a nation of immigrants, it's arrogant and hypocritical to turn them away. We can take care of ISIS with our surveillance and military power abroad.

 

[Laurent.]

I say bring them in and conduct thorough investigations and for a while hold them in some type of detention facility until we feel they are trustworthy enough to assimilate into our society. It's wrong to turn these people away. A vast majority of them are running away from terror which we want to stop. Being a nation of immigrants, it's arrogant and hypocritical to turn them away. We can take care of ISIS with our surveillance and military power abroad.

We have been doing that for decades over here, but there's a problem with it. The process is extremely thorough, which undoubtedly means it takes a long time, and there's little qualified personnel able to question the refugees. Some people stay in an AZC for 10+ years, in that time they are free to walk in this country, have a home at the AZC, receive payments and food whilst the investigation is ongoing.

Now most refugees flee with their family, have them brought over, or get children in the AZC.

By Dutch law children from age 5+ have compulsory education which is strictly enforced.

And then comes the hitch, after ten years and if dad is deemed unfit to live here or his home place is deemed safe or whatever reason, he and his family has to go back. But there's a problem, the children by then have grown up here, went to a Western school and have been brought up with our values and part of our culture, they wouldn't thrive at their 'home'. So usually families are split, or they all get to stay with great animosity to our government who just tried to help.

Now that system is was already not working due to the influx of refugees in former years. Only the first few years if really worked incredibly well.

Now, well they are building larger and more AZC's in nearly every county without staff existing.

It's not a solution.

 

[Campeador]

Just because someone posts it online doesn't mean it's real. Stuff like this is solely created for oblivious people like you to share, to create fear and hatred. The guy in the pictures was actually apart of the Free Syrian Army who are fighting against ISIS. (Don't take my word for it - look it up) Next time think a little bit before you share random cancerous shit you see on Facebook.

Looks like you've already been taken care of.

People like you are the cancer.

 

[Dorf.]

Looks like you've already been taken care of.

People like you are the cancer.

Damn really got me there

 

[S.J.W]

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

No.

A month or two ago there was a report for German paper Die Welt entitled "The Truth about the Refugee Job Wonder" that asked if German Chancellor Angela Merkel's pronouncement that migrants will be the "labour revitalisation" of Germany is actually true?

It turns out Syrians, Afghans and Iraqis are more likely to be unemployed than the average German by a large margin.

The Institute for Employment Research (IAB)(1) has conducted research into migrant employment rates and found that in the case of Syrians their employment rate has dropped from 32 percent to only 9 percent as recently as last November.

Afghanis and Iraqis, who are increasingly becoming a larger proportion of migrants coming into the EU according to Frontex, don't fare much better, with Afghan employment participation going from 37.6 percent to 24.5 percent and Iraqi employment going down from 34 percent to 25.3 percent over the same five year period.

To put this in perspective, the employment rate of the average German is 67.3 percent.

Migrants have an especially difficult time and even those with professional qualifications tend to have a hard time becoming employed due to differences in culture, language barrier, nationally recognised qualifications and the incentive. The amount of time to enter the workforce presents huge problems for the welfare system that the migrants are thought to be able to prop up.

Migration in Western European countries that already have all tiers of labour covered receive no economic benefits from migration. For example the labour market participation and educational level of all generations of Turks and Moroccans, the largest minorities of non-European Economic Area origin in Germany/Netherlands since the 1960s, remains low, especially among women.

Also, Turkish unemployment in Germany/Netherlands is higher than average.

It won't suddenly solve itself in the next decade by education and by then you have spent hundreds of thousands on maybe a a single person.

1.http://frontex.europa.eu/assets/Publications/Risk_Analysis/AFIC/AFIC_report_2015.pdf

If you're smart enough to read a paper, you should also be smart enough to analyse said paper for any biases, or is the report is just complete shit. Frontex in this case is a complete joke mixed in with a lil bit of bias.

Anyways, 5 economists from the EU agree that the migrant crisis will benefit 19 out of 20 countries. You're looking at a very very short term perspective on this current crisis. Off course they're going to be unemployed, but in the LONG RUN (key term long run) it will benefit Europe economically.

 

[Laurent.]

If you're smart enough to read a paper, you should also be smart enough to analyse said paper for any biases, or is the report is just complete shit. Frontex in this case is a complete joke mixed in with a lil bit of bias.

Anyways, 5 economists from the EU agree that the migrant crisis will benefit 19 out of 20 countries. You're looking at a very very short term perspective on this current crisis. Off course they're going to be unemployed, but in the LONG RUN (key term long run) it will benefit Europe economically.

We have had immigrants since 1960 here, they are not doing well it's on that which I base my information, please tell me how long your long run is, a 1000 years?

Also 5 economists, great cherrypicking considering that Frontex is an agency of the European Union. Without political alignment, you are probably referring to the FT of which the sample size of the poll was tiny. Only 33 random economists were consulted out of many more senior candidates who could have been asked, and the FT reports only 'several' of them believe in migration.

Now get my on the actual points that I make instead of saying "FRONTEX IS A COMPLETE JOKE"

 

[skierman]

Seriously someone needs to put you down honestly dude the posts you make when you are being serious and not trolling are actually 10x worse and more stupid than your clown ass troll fake tough guy shit talking ones.

You must fuck up at least 20 orders a day at your job I bet its a 50-50 shot someone gets nuggets when they order a big mac if you're the one taking it. (You probably just sweep up and clean the toilets though doubt you are on the register.)

Aw, its so cute to see a n00b get so worked up! I didn't even have to tell you how worthless you are in this world! And I don't screw up burger orders. Like everything else, I'm the best at it.

 

[S.J.W]

We have had immigrants since 1960 here, they are not doing well it's on that which I base my information, please tell me how long your long run is, a 1000 years?

Also 5 economists, great cherrypicking considering that Frontex is an agency of the European Union. Without political alignment, you are probably referring to the FT of which the sample size of the poll was tiny. Only 33 random economists were consulted out of many more senior candidates who could have been asked, and the FT reports only 'several' of them believe in migration.

Now get my on the actual points that I make instead of saying "FRONTEX IS A COMPLETE JOKE"

Frontex pretty much aims to keep Europe white and doesn't really like immigrants. Frontex is also apart of the EU, however I would consider a report from the EU to be of higher importance than a report from frontex which is known to have an anti immigration agenda, where as the EU consists of everyones opinion.

And as far as immigrants, hmmm the Irish are doing fine, chinese are doing fine, mexicans are doing fine, jews are doing fine, etc,etc,etc. See the flaws in your logic?

 

[Laurent.]

So because Frontex doesn't align with your views they are suddenly against immigration and a bad source?

You are just spouting bullcrap and not even trying to refute my arguments.

And as far as immigrants, hmmm the Irish are doing fine, chinese are doing fine, mexicans are doing fine, jews are doing fine, etc,etc,etc. See the flaws in your logic?

We have little Irish or Mexican immigrants over here and if they are they are apparently doing fine, but those coming in now aren't Mexican or Irish. They are Syrian, Somali, Afghan, Iraqi, etc...

And yeah, those immigrants are not doing well these are the statistics of the CBS which is the principal unbiased stat counter from the Dutch government which is (atleast was until recently) very much a pro-migrant government:

%Percentage of people on welfare by ethnicity:

And this stat is for how many crimes (violence, destruction, fraud) per 1000 where convicted.

In both cases autochtoon is Dutch, Westerse allochtoon is a western-european immigrant.

The latter graph is 10 years old by now, CBS was banned from counting that stat by ethnicity by the government when they presented it.

I'm not against refugees and immigrants, but mindlessly taking them in out of some altruism doesn't work for anyone at all.

 

[S.J.W]

So because Frontex doesn't align with your views they are suddenly against immigration and a bad source?

You are just spouting bullcrap and not even trying to refute my arguments.

We have little Irish or Mexican immigrants over here and if they are they are apparently doing fine, but those coming in now aren't Mexican or Irish. They are Syrian, Somali, Afghan, Iraqi, etc...

And yeah, those immigrants are not doing well these are the statistics of the CBS which is the principal unbiased stat counter from the Dutch government which is (atleast was until recently) very much a pro-migrant government:

%Percentage of people on welfare by ethnicity:

And this stat is for how many crimes (violence, destruction, fraud) per 1000 where convicted.

In both cases autochtoon is Dutch, Westerse allochtoon is a western-european immigrant.

The latter graph is 10 years old by now, CBS was banned from counting that stat by ethnicity by the government when they presented it.

I'm not against refugees and immigrants, but mindlessly taking them in out of some altruism doesn't work for anyone at all.

No it's a bad source because frontex has an agenda to push. It's similar to if you were to post a study done by the NRA in defence of guns.

And you seem to be forgetting IN THE LONG RUN. This is not a discussion of immigrants=terrorism. Or if you should take in refugees. It's simply are immigrants/ refugees beneficial to the economy? And the answer is yes.

Let's put it this way, if someone told you if you invest 200 dollars now, and then 100 dollars for every year for 10 years. Then in 25 years instead of having $2200 you could have $7000. Does that sound like a solid investment? Same thing with refugees. Off course it's not that simple but you get the point. Muslims make up 10% of the physicians in America, despite only making up 2% of the population.

But just a lil history lesson. Remember when the Irish were coming to America and people were saying they were leaching off the system? Same with chinese, japanese, etc,etc. Remember how til this day people still scrutinze people who use welfare despite evidence that it helps people out of poverty faster than if there was no welfare.

You're more than welcome to be against refugees. But this refugees/immigrants are leaching off the system is an age old trope which has applied to every generation of immigrants.

 

[Laurent.]

No it's a bad source because frontex has an agenda to push. It's similar to if you were to post a study done by the NRA in defence of guns.

And you seem to be forgetting IN THE LONG RUN. This is not a discussion of immigrants=terrorism. Or if you should take in refugees. It's simply are immigrants/ refugees beneficial to the economy? And the answer is yes.

Let's put it this way, if someone told you if you invest 200 dollars now, and then 100 dollars for every year for 10 years. Then in 25 years instead of having $2200 you could have $7000. Does that sound like a solid investment? Same thing with refugees. Off course it's not that simple but you get the point. Muslims make up 10% of the physicians in America, despite only making up 2% of the population.

But just a lil history lesson. Remember when the Irish were coming to America and people were saying they were leaching off the system? Same with chinese, japanese, etc,etc. Remember how til this day people still scrutinze people who use welfare despite evidence that it helps people out of poverty faster than if there was no welfare.

You're more than welcome to be against refugees. But this refugees/immigrants are leaching off the system is an age old trope which has applied to every generation of immigrants.

And what you don't seem to get is that you can't apply the past properly or America's history in this situation this is North Western-Europe every other refugee/immigrant population besides those from Africa & the Middle East for the past 100 years has been doing well from the get go. Those statistics up there include 2nd and third generations.

In typical migration countries such as Australia and the US, there is no real difference in school performance between 2nd/3rd gen immigrants and 'natives', in Western Europe there is.

This is quite an old research from the Dutch government advice bureau thing.

http://www.cpb.nl/persbericht/329217/immigratie-niet-effectief-tegen-vergrijzing

The average immigrant here including 2nd/3rd gen will cost the state a minimum of 43.000, the average 'native' will produce 75.000 in the course of his life.

That averages everything out, be the difference is stark.

So again I'm asking you, what long run?

This is not the U.S. or Australia, in the case of the Netherlands we are talking about a tiny crowded country, one of the most densely populated countries in the world (if we ignore city-states) with a completely saturated job-market from top to bottom.

I'm not against refugees, I'm against people who spout idiosyncrasy, it's a proven fact that refugees/immigrant cost 'the system' as you so put it without any improvement over time at least in my country.

 

[S.J.W]

And what you don't seem to get is that you can't apply the past properly or America's history in this situation this is North Western-Europe every other refugee/immigrant population besides those from Africa & the Middle East for the past 100 years has been doing well from the get go. Those statistics up there include 2nd and third generations.

In typical migration countries such as Australia and the US, there is no real difference in school performance between 2nd/3rd gen immigrants and 'natives', in Western Europe there is.

This is quite an old research from the Dutch government advice bureau thing.

http://www.cpb.nl/persbericht/329217/immigratie-niet-effectief-tegen-vergrijzing

The average immigrant here including 2nd/3rd gen will cost the state a minimum of 43.000, the average 'native' will produce 75.000 in the course of his life.

That averages everything out, be the difference is stark.

So again I'm asking you, what long run?

This is not the U.S. or Australia, in the case of the Netherlands we are talking about a tiny crowded country, one of the most densely populated countries in the world (if we ignore city-states) with a completely saturated job-market from top to bottom.

I'm not against refugees, I'm against people who spout idiosyncrasy, it's a proven fact that refugees/immigrant cost 'the system' as you so put it without any improvement over time at least in my country.

You keep posting single studies. Which don't reference at all. And that should be a red flag to anyone posting studies on whether or not they're reliable. But apart from that, yes there is studies which find that refugees aren't good for the economy. However the over whelming agreement between economists which don't pose any sort of agenda is that immigrants and refugees are good for the economy in the long run.

https://www.oecd.org/migration/How-will-the-refugee-surge-affect-the-European-economy.pdf

 

[Laurent.]

You keep posting single studies. Which don't reference at all. And that should be a red flag to anyone posting studies on whether or not they're reliable. But apart from that, yes there is studies which find that refugees aren't good for the economy. However the over whelming agreement between economists which don't pose any sort of agenda is that immigrants and refugees are good for the economy in the long run.

https://www.oecd.org/migration/How-will-the-refugee-surge-affect-the-European-economy.pdf

"However the over whelming agreement between economists which don't pose any sort of agenda is that immigrants and refugees are good for the economy in the long run."

That's just plain BS, when the current situation over the past 100 years in the Netherlands has shown it hasn't. OECD is also not free of any bias, and that research from the CPB is essentially the Dutch government presenting the actual numbers. It is a part of the Ministry of Economic Affairs (Netherlands) and it delivers economic analysis and forecasts. It is operating independently. This means it does have a stable income but also does not have to follow the ministry.

No guesswork, no estimations, but the raw actual data proves that immigrants/refugees over here do not thrive.

All you do is say my references are shit but yours are the golden goose. That's no argumentation.

 

[KneeDrop]

Anyone against helping refugees, is helping terrorist win. They want this division, and they want to be able to say, 'see? The western world hates you', swaying anyone on the fence.

 

[Campeador]

Anyone against helping refugees, is helping terrorist win. They want this division, and they want to be able to say, 'see? The western world hates you', swaying anyone on the fence.

What a load of bleeding-heart bullshit.

Stop the muslim hijra jihad.

In other news, Poland will take no "refugees", no country has had to suffer more at the hands of evil political ideologies, they know Islam is one.

Za Polskę! (For Poland!)

Za wolność! (For freeedom!)
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/polands-leaders-refugees-brussels-blasts-37892853

 

[skierman]

What a load of bleeding-heart bullshit.

Stop the muslim hijra jihad.

In other news, Poland will take no "refugees", no country has had to suffer more at the hands of evil political ideologies, they know Islam is one.

Za Polskę! (For Poland!)

Za wolność! (For freeedom!)
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/polands-leaders-refugees-brussels-blasts-37892853

"However, the suicide-bombers in the attacks in Brussels, brothers Ibrahim and Khalid El Bakraoui, were Belgian-born."

Kinda like how most who participated in the Paris attacks were either legal residents of France or of neighboring countries who crossed legally.

You're a fucking idiot along with all those bigots in Poland. Good lord.

 

[Campeador]

"However, the suicide-bombers in the attacks in Brussels, brothers Ibrahim and Khalid El Bakraoui, were Belgian-born."

Kinda like how most who participated in the Paris attacks were either legal residents of France or of neighboring countries who crossed legally.

You're a fucking idiot along with all those bigots in Poland. Good lord.

"The officials, including European and Iraqi intelligence officials and a French lawmaker who follows the jihadi networks, described camps in Syria, Iraq and possibly the former Soviet bloc where attackers are trained to target the West. Before being killed in a police raid, the ringleader of the Nov. 13 Paris attacks claimed he had entered Europe in a multinational group of 90 fighters, who scattered "more or less everywhere."
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/1c16...ins-400-fighters-attack-europe-wave-bloodshed

How's that, you ugly ginger piece of shit.

 

[skierman]

"The officials, including European and Iraqi intelligence officials and a French lawmaker who follows the jihadi networks, described camps in Syria, Iraq and possibly the former Soviet bloc where attackers are trained to target the West. Before being killed in a police raid, the ringleader of the Nov. 13 Paris attacks claimed he had entered Europe in a multinational group of 90 fighters, who scattered "more or less everywhere."
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/1c16...ins-400-fighters-attack-europe-wave-bloodshed

How's that, you ugly ginger piece of shit.

Yeah, still doesn't counter my point being that the biggest threat comes from within the country, not from crazies hiding among the refugees.