Shift Binding Toe Height and Forward pressure

L

LeviRuddell

New member
Ok guys im sure there's other threads about this but i haven't found many answers after searching for about an hour. I set up my shift bindings with the proper forward pressure and toe height (with the salomon card between afd and boot). Was having a few pre-releases last year so i played around with tightening the afd a bit and going from 8 to 9 din on the heel. Im 160lb 6ft. Just wondering what other people are doing with adjustments and what is working for some people. also just checked the toe height from last season and it seems that the afd had dropped on both skis to the point where they weren't touching the boot anymore.

Thanks for any input im sure others have been seeing the same issues.
 
topic:LeviRuddell said:
Ok guys im sure there's other threads about this but i haven't found many answers after searching for about an hour. I set up my shift bindings with the proper forward pressure and toe height (with the salomon card between afd and boot). Was having a few pre-releases last year so i played around with tightening the afd a bit and going from 8 to 9 din on the heel. Im 160lb 6ft. Just wondering what other people are doing with adjustments and what is working for some people. also just checked the toe height from last season and it seems that the afd had dropped on both skis to the point where they weren't touching the boot anymore.

Thanks for any input im sure others have been seeing the same issues.
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Are you a tech? I had mine adjusted by my shops other techs and I had zero issues. I’m a tech but still fairly green so I had him do it because I was unsure how to get it right.
 
triplecheck AFD + a tad more forward pressure, my 5 cent. 240-250lbs.

the AFD adjustment is NOT LINEAR?!?!? why they do this...
 
topic:LeviRuddell said:
Ok guys im sure there's other threads about this but i haven't found many answers after searching for about an hour. I set up my shift bindings with the proper forward pressure and toe height (with the salomon card between afd and boot). Was having a few pre-releases last year so i played around with tightening the afd a bit and going from 8 to 9 din on the heel. Im 160lb 6ft. Just wondering what other people are doing with adjustments and what is working for some people. also just checked the toe height from last season and it seems that the afd had dropped on both skis to the point where they weren't touching the boot anymore.

Thanks for any input im sure others have been seeing the same issues.
Click to expand...

Shift AFD height set up adjustment issues have been similar to toe height/AFD height adjustment on Attacks/Griffons etc. Very commonly set up incorrectly.

The key step that many techs and DIY people seem to miss is the step to eliminate slack before adjusting the AFD. Place the boot in the binding with the spacer/business card between the boot toe and AFD. Now pull HARD on the back of the boot cuff in order to “wheelie” the boot toe to eliminate any possible slack and THEN try removing the spacer/business card. You will find you will have to adjust the AFD up now that you have eliminated the slack. Adjust the AFD until the spacer/business card resists removable while still applying pressure on the rear boot cuff.

Shift/any binding will fill much more solid after proper AFD adjustment and should drastically cut down on pre-releases(if DIN and forward pressure set properly).

977468.png

Notice the “pull“ on the first pic eliminating slack by trying to lift toe before AFD adjustment.

**This post was edited on Oct 27th 2020 at 6:38:36pm
 
14189160:Greg_K said:
Shift AFD height set up adjustment issues have been similar to toe height/AFD height adjustment on Attacks/Griffons etc. Very commonly set up incorrectly.

The key step that many techs and DIY people seem to miss is the step to eliminate slack before adjusting the AFD. Place the boot in the binding with the spacer/business card between the boot toe and AFD. Now pull HARD on the back of the boot cuff in order to “wheelie” the boot toe to eliminate any possible slack and THEN try removing the spacer/business card. You will find you will have to adjust the AFD up now that you have eliminated the slack. Adjust the AFD until the spacer/business card resists removable while still applying pressure on the rear boot cuff.

Shift/any binding will fill much more solid after proper AFD adjustment and should drastically cut down on pre-releases(if DIN and forward pressure set properly).

View attachment 977468

Notice the “pull“ on the first pic eliminating slack by trying to lift toe before AFD adjustment.

**This post was edited on Oct 27th 2020 at 6:38:36pm
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Thanks man i had been pulling up while checking AFD before so maybe my problem is that the AFD is dropping (since i found it in a lower position when i checked them today). Will have to triple check AFD height with the pull check again and maybe tightening forward pressure a tad. Could you send me the link to that manual?
 
On another note, i just remembered demoing some of the new salomon skis last season and they had shift bindings mounted on them. The tech rep got me to step into the binding and it seemed that he cranked the AFD somewhat tight. I asked him about setting up the binding properly and he said that he sets up his AFD quite tight. If it drops positions again ill be trying for warranty...
 
https://issuu.com/salomonnz/docs/salomon_tm_alp_wtr2019_300dpi

No binding AFD should need adjusting more then a couple times a year due to boot wear etc. If you are checking any binding AFD height using the “eliminate slack before adjustment” method then adjusting till the spacer resists a decent amount(if it were a business card, it’s almost ripping to remove) and it’s still always dropping, you might have a defective binding.
 
I think its the notches that switches between fine/course in the adjustment screw that does it, anyone got a view whats inside and how the mechanism looks without the glide plate on? just adjustment screw. my theory is it also happens more if your close to where it drops a lot in the mechnism, I have that in the back of my head when I adjust them. not an expert, just like to dabble with mechanical stuff.
 
14189224:anders_a said:
I think its the notches that switches between fine/course in the adjustment screw that does it, anyone got a view whats inside and how the mechanism looks without the glide plate on? just adjustment screw. my theory is it also happens more if your close to where it drops a lot in the mechnism, I have that in the back of my head when I adjust them. not an expert, just like to dabble with mechanical stuff.
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Yeah i know what you mean, if your at the top of one "notch" sometimes it will drop down to the lower one. I pushed down with my fingers to test that and the AFD will "settle" down to the lower notch. Obviously it needs to be linear like the Marker AFD's...
 
I had issues with my afd and prereleasing first day or two from the shop setup. It took that Cody Townsend input and some other research on here to figure how to adjust it properly without it slipping back. Got it a bit tighter and ended on the tightening direction and haven’t had any more issues in the last 60+ days. They release when I need them to and they don’t when I don’t.

Had to bump the din a little higher too but nothing crazy.
 
14189772:LeviRuddell said:
Any idea what page they talk about adjustment? lots to sift through...
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Ah man I have no idea, was about a year ago when I last read the thread looking for the same info
 
Did you manage to set up according to LeeLau / Cody Townsend's method?

If so, did you try skiing on it yet? Did the AFD drop still?

Also, does anyone know why the AFD has the 'ALPINE norm TOURING norm' arrows?

Are they simply there to say an alpine boot requires the AFD higher than a touring boot?
 
14195561:wanglee93 said:
Did you manage to set up according to LeeLau / Cody Townsend's method?

If so, did you try skiing on it yet? Did the AFD drop still?

Also, does anyone know why the AFD has the 'ALPINE norm TOURING norm' arrows?

Are they simply there to say an alpine boot requires the AFD higher than a touring boot?
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Yes i adjusted the bindings. For the forward pressure i went with the plate flush to the housing (arrows at the end of the rectangle). For the AFD i adjusted it upwards until i was tight to the bottom of boot, i then took the boot out, pushed on the afd manually until it settled into a click. I then turned the screw about halfway up and its a pretty perfect spot so i hope they don't drop with that method. Havent skied em yet as we had a rain event. Got snow last night and more this weekend so ill update when i ski them. And yes you are correct its just a starting point for alpine or touring. I think lots of people having the issues are folks that have a boot that requires them to be in the middle of two "Steps" on the afd adjustment. So if it really came down to it you could shim the toe piece (which would slightly effect ramp angle) or grind your boot down. Not sure if people are going this route i set them up on the looser "step" because the higher one was wayy too tight, especially once your dealing with snow and crud. But they are touching and if i push them they slide a tiny bit while the boot is in. Card test is a tough one with a grippy touring sole realistically. On another point, i just set up my marker griffon ID's with the same boot and even in the lowest afd setting they are still quite tight. I bench tested them and they released fine , even had a few good bails on the jibs where they released perfect so maybe too tight isnt too much of a bad thing as long as you have a sliding AFD.
 
14195656:LeviRuddell said:
Yes i adjusted the bindings. For the forward pressure i went with the plate flush to the housing (arrows at the end of the rectangle). For the AFD i adjusted it upwards until i was tight to the bottom of boot, i then took the boot out, pushed on the afd manually until it settled into a click. I then turned the screw about halfway up and its a pretty perfect spot so i hope they don't drop with that method. Havent skied em yet as we had a rain event. Got snow last night and more this weekend so ill update when i ski them. And yes you are correct its just a starting point for alpine or touring. I think lots of people having the issues are folks that have a boot that requires them to be in the middle of two "Steps" on the afd adjustment. So if it really came down to it you could shim the toe piece (which would slightly effect ramp angle) or grind your boot down. Not sure if people are going this route i set them up on the looser "step" because the higher one was wayy too tight, especially once your dealing with snow and crud. But they are touching and if i push them they slide a tiny bit while the boot is in. Card test is a tough one with a grippy touring sole realistically. On another point, i just set up my marker griffon ID's with the same boot and even in the lowest afd setting they are still quite tight. I bench tested them and they released fine , even had a few good bails on the jibs where they released perfect so maybe too tight isnt too much of a bad thing as long as you have a sliding AFD.
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So now, when your boot is in the binding, if you push glide plate from the side, does it return to its original position or does it stay pushed?

I have followed the instructions. My final result is the glide plate is juuust touching the boot sole rubber. It makes it so that the glide plate can slide to the side if pushed, but it does not return to its original position unless I really push up with my thumbs on the toe area of the boot.

I left my boot in when adjusting the AFD and found the 'clicks' reallllly difficult to distinguish. It seems a click is less than a 1/4 turn. Perhaps the 2020 or 2021 is 1 click:1/4 turn (would be a great improvement from the 2019 I have). Maybe I'll try it with the boot out next as you have done, if this doesn't work out. I should note, my AFD clicks used to be obvious but I think with time they have become less dramatic.

For the past 1.5 years, I have been trying to solve this puzzle. In the process, I have set up the AFD differently, tried increasing forward pressure, and increased my DINs progressively up to 13 on both toes and heels. By the end of last season, I think I was quite close to being set to the LeeLau / Townsend method. Perhaps i should back my DINs off now. I will try the bench test.
 
14195712:wanglee93 said:
So now, when your boot is in the binding, if you push glide plate from the side, does it return to its original position or does it stay pushed?

I have followed the instructions. My final result is the glide plate is juuust touching the boot sole rubber. It makes it so that the glide plate can slide to the side if pushed, but it does not return to its original position unless I really push up with my thumbs on the toe area of the boot.

I left my boot in when adjusting the AFD and found the 'clicks' reallllly difficult to distinguish. It seems a click is less than a 1/4 turn. Perhaps the 2020 or 2021 is 1 click:1/4 turn (would be a great improvement from the 2019 I have). Maybe I'll try it with the boot out next as you have done, if this doesn't work out. I should note, my AFD clicks used to be obvious but I think with time they have become less dramatic.

For the past 1.5 years, I have been trying to solve this puzzle. In the process, I have set up the AFD differently, tried increasing forward pressure, and increased my DINs progressively up to 13 on both toes and heels. By the end of last season, I think I was quite close to being set to the LeeLau / Townsend method. Perhaps i should back my DINs off now. I will try the bench test.
Click to expand...

My AFD's are touching and when i push them there is resistance they wont slide back into place. Biggest take away from my research is to push down on AFD with your hand until it clicks into a "step" this might mean loosening 1/4 turn then push, or tightening then push, keep going till you find that "step" with your hand. Then put boot in to see if its the right "step" and if it is tighten just about 1/2 turn. Also making sure the toe wings are flush with top of boot sole by pulling up.

To be Honest Wanglee, if you are still having that much trouble with the toes and they are the first release of that binding i think if it continues you should warranty the toes. The shop i was working at had to warranty a dozen toe pieces with salomon. It was very odd because salomon never admitted that there was a warranty issue with them... we really only had about 2 customers with recurring problems and we readjusted the bindings several times. One of the guys was also 240lbs 6' 4" so i told him to sell his warranty pair and go with a CAST system or wait till the new duke is out. I also think the more you adjust them the more the steps become worn and prone to slipping. Really try the push technique. Ill be skiing this week sometime so ill let you know how mine go.

Ive really only had troubles with it once last year when the toe dropped and again in spring when the toe dropped again. If it does the same ill be talking to salomon for new toes.
 
Update- went skiing today and it was 30cm on top of a weird crust. Lots of deep pockets and wind blown shit. Bindings did fine and no releases or afd dropping. Hope they stay dialed, stepping into them felt better with the tighter forward pressure
 
Hey bud thanks for the update. Havent checked back in years but i ended up having no issues after adjusting using this method. Many thanks for that eh.

14197489:LeviRuddell said:
Update- went skiing today and it was 30cm on top of a weird crust. Lots of deep pockets and wind blown shit. Bindings did fine and no releases or afd dropping. Hope they stay dialed, stepping into them felt better with the tighter forward pressure
Click to expand...
 
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