I got some 181 P4's from 08-09, and I love them. They are my everyday ski, and were in SD, not alot of powder. But groomers and shit are fine if your not a moron. Bases are pretty strong, but topsheets stronger than any ski i've seen before. Kind of stiff at first but put about 30 days on them and they get softer, just wish they had rocker.