Pastor in Florida burns Koran & makes you tube video, Afghans attack UN office and kill 13 in anger.

Nadia.

Active member
Note** deaths are actually 10 or 13, not 7 like this article states.http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/world/Afghanistan+mission+reeling+after+kills+staffers/4545995/story.htmlUNITED UNITED NATIONS — The United Nations said Friday it was in Afghanistan to stay, but the attack on its compound in the northern city of Mazar-e-Sharif has thrown the entire UN mission there into deep crisis.The loss of seven international staffers — some reports said two were beheaded — marks the worst attack the world body has suffered in the country. Security will have to be reviewed despite an overhaul in the wake of an attack just 18 months ago that left five UN staffers dead in Kabul, the capital.The attack could also see UN activities retrenched as new precautions are introduced to protect staffers."These are civilian people, unarmed, here to do human rights work, here to support peace in Afghanistan," Kieran Dwyer, a spokesman for the United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan, told the BBC. "We were not prepared for this kind of situation. We were there to protect them."But to many, it's unclear why the UN was so unprepared.Four UN-paid Nepalese Gurkha guards were among the dead, overwhelmed by the throng that burst into the compound.The attackers overwhelmed security guards, burned parts of the compound and climbed up blast walls to topple a guard tower, Reuters reported. Five protesters were also killed and about 20 wounded, some after trying to take weapons off UN security guards."The insurgents have taken advantage of the situation to attack the UN compound," said Gov. Ata Mohammad Noor.He told a news conference that many in the crowd of protesters had been carrying guns. Some 27 people have already been detained over the attack, he added.Dwyer said UN staff guards were both inside and outside the facility, but insisted that the UN relied for its "first line of security" on the Afghan authorities, comprising the police and the Afghan National Army."We need to find out what actually happened," Dwyer said, without laying blame. But he added that "it really does show how difficult it can be for civilian workers" in Afghanistan.In New York, UN spokesman Farhan Haq said there had been "heightened security measures" in place, but declined to give details.The 2009 attack saw three Taliban gunmen enter a UN guest house. Besides the UN staffers, two Afghan security personnel and an Afghan civilian also died, as well as the gunmen.After a review, UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon called on the UN General Assembly to approve at least $75 million to strengthen security and safety for UN staff in Afghanistan.Some $50 million of that was to improve screening and to protect access to vulnerable UN offices.But within the country, U.S. and NATO-led security forces have been keen to offer increasing responsibility for security to the Afghans in preparation for an eventual total handover.Only last month, U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates was hailing the "gains we are seeing across the country" in the ability of the Afghan security forces, working with coalition forces, to make Afghanistan safe."As a result, commerce has grown and distant provinces are increasingly connected to major marketplaces," Gates said at a joint news conference with Afghan President Hamid Karzai March 7 in Kabul.He declared progress was such that the United States "will be well positioned to begin drawing down some U.S. and coalition forces this July."Ironically, Mazar-e-Sharif has until now been considered one of Afghanistan's more peaceable cities, and a site chosen for one of the first formal handovers of security to the Afghans in July. Some in authority were speculating Friday that such a handover may now be in question.Afghan authorities denied any of the victims had been beheaded in Friday's attack. Norway identified the only woman among the dead as one of its nationals, 53-year-old Lt.-Col. Siri Skare. Sweden confirmed one of its nationals also died, while the UN said another European victim was from Romania. Besides UN staffers, five Afghan protesters died.The Florida pastor whose recent Koran burning allegedly provoked Friday's violence says he will, later this month, protest outside the Islamic Center of America in Dearborn, Michigan, where a third of the population is of Arab descent.Pastor Terry Jones oversaw the burning of a Koran at his poorly attended Gainesville church March 20 a little more than six months after he backed off a pledge to commit the act last Sept. 11, the ninth anniversary of the 2001 attacks.Media focus worldwide had been huge last fall as U.S. President Barack Obama, the U.S. State Department, the FBI, the Pentagon and an array of interfaith groups urged the pastor, whose congregation amounts to a little more than 50 followers, to avoid inflaming the Muslim world.Few in the West noticed when Jones actually committed the act almost two weeks ago following a mock trial of a Koran that was soaking in kerosene throughout the fake proceeding. As some 30 people looked on, the pastor's colleague, Wayne Sapp, lit the book using a barbecue lighter, and it reportedly burned for about 10 minutes.Halfway around the world, however, the story of the burning grew and grew, to the point where, during Friday prayers in the Blue Mosque in Mazar-e-Sharif, three mullahs called for protests to insist the United States arrest Jones.While in Kabul around 200 protesters marched on the U.S. embassy and merely shouted, in Mazar-e-Sharif thousands poured out of the Blue Mosque and made their way to the nearby UN compound. It's believed this was the only symbol of Western presence they could easily reach. Authorities estimated the crowd eventually numbered 20,000. Observers report that the situation turned violent after one local religious leader stood up and declared that "hundreds" of Korans — not just one — had been burned.Reached by the BBC, Jones said he did not feel guilty over the deaths in Mazar. "We are not responsible for their actions," he declared when asked about the attack.

Read more: http://www.canada.com/Afghanistan+mission+reeling+after+kills+seven+staffers/4545995/story.html#ixzz1IKbzURjy
 
I do my very best to be tolerant of Islam, and I'd like to believe a few bad apples spoil the bunch but when shit like this happens I just think, "the world would probably be a much better place if the Middle East didn't exist." Of course the people burning the Koran are dicks too and I'm really saddened by the anti-muslim sentiment that is rising back up again here, but come on. You take yourself way to fucking seriously if you're killing people over something like this. We don't kill people at Middle Eastern embassies when people burn bibles or flags over there...
 
Hahahahahaha I thought It said "Pastor burns Korean, Afghans kill 13 in anger". Left me thinking how the fuck the two were related.
 
Both sides are just fucking wack. I saw this on the news earlier this evening. If only people could just quit giving a shit.
 
Sounds like...
...I do my very best to be tolerate of religious fanatics to the south of me that somehow think its ok to desecrate other religious books and blame their problems on what may be one of the most peaceful religions out there. The world would be a much better place if america doesn't exist...
Pretty sure that's what they're all thinking too. Then again, the US isn't occupied by foreign forces so you can't exactly tell how they feel. It wasn't an embassy fyi, it was an office for an occupying force, which sadly was the UN and involved the deaths of people from various nations from Sweden to Nepal.
I'm sorry, but Islam is a much more peaceful religion in comparison to Christianity. Think of all the killing over the years done in Christs' name. (Witch hunts, Crusades, Ireland) and all the missionaries wiping out culture around the world with their "convert if you want food" policies.
I wouldn't put it past that crazy pastor to kill, there's ample footage of him burning and trashing the Koran and flaunting his stockpile of weapons. He's just fortunate his country is the occupying force instead of being occupied.
 
my bro just got back from afghanistan.

he is absolutely ripped shit at the pastor in FL who burned the qur'an.

the pastor burnt the qur'an just to stir shit up, knowing full well what implications it could hold.

reason my bro is pissed is that my brother just spent 6 months trying to insure that the ground forces were safe. this incident with the pastor in FL, just completely defeated the mission of everyone who has sacrificed their time, blood, sweat and tears in afghanistan for the last 10 years.
 
Dude, they can blame the qur'an for these deaths, but if they didn't have this as an excuse, time would prevail and something else would be blamed.

Thing is: burning qur'an=killing 13? I don't fucking think so, regardless of how provocative an act it is.
 
to be frank, i'm surprised they only killed 13.

the qur'an in islamic regions isn't like the 'holy book' in america, the qur'an is EVERYTHING to these people. you might as well have killed their mothers.

every troop that heads over to afghanistan is pelted with the phrase "hearts and minds" meaning that they want to win over the hearts and minds of the afghani people. a youtube video with millions of hits of an american burning their way of life pretty much defeats the purpose of every soldier, marine, and airman who has spent time there.

 
Exactly.. all the door to door meeting with locals and tribal leaders to gain trust and help get the country back on their feet, then BAM, some moron has to go ruin thousands of man hours, lives, and dollars giving all westerners a bad name as religious fanatics who hate on Islam.
I've got 3 buddies who have done multiple tours over there too, it's so brutal to see something like this happen. They're all pretty messed up...
That entire area is going to destabilize once forces pull out. I wish people could learn that a minority of extremists does not mean everyone who is part of that religion is the same. This goes for Christians and Islams both. Ironically most religions are based on the same prinicples, but someone always has to pervert it to their own means.
 
But all of the killings done "in Christ's name are suuuuper extremeist groups, who happen to be breaking a important commandment of Christianity: Thou shalt not kill. Thats just my view
 
are you familiar with world history? the crusades per chance?

all wars have some religious perversion included in their plans. it might be mostly for economic reasons, but religion is also in there.
 
Bingo, that's just it though. There are extremist Christians who violate their own religions principles for their own means.
But this is EXACTLY the same for Islam, where a small extremist group violates their own religion to pursue ulterior motives.
I was trying to prove a point that they're the same. So all those civys in the middle east are looking back at us "westerners" thinking we're all like that jackass pastor if we use the same mindset that so many americans use to call all islams terrorists. It's hypocritical.. and so annoying that people judge an entire religion on the actions of a few. It goes for both sides.
 
Burning a Koran is dumb, and will obviously incite violence and help the extremists rally more kids to their cause. At the same time, the fact that having a book burned 'justifies' the killing of 13 independent people, says something about a religion.

The Afghan solution is pretty simple, and it involves carpet bombing.
 
So they can kill me too? No thanks. Also when it comes to being extremist groups that are doing this...there have been thousands of people in these types of protests. Just think back to the who Danish cartoon thing, people were burning down buildings then too and it sure as hell wasn't just "extremist groups." I think most of us, with the exception of soldiers, are only able to base our opinion of Muslims on those that we've met in the U.S. and they are just regular Americas so we don't think anything of it. Why aren't Muslims in America protesting this Koran burning?
Islam also isn't more peaceful that Christianity, we just aren't taught their history in school. Some people (read anything by Karen Armstrong) would contend that Mohammed was nothing more than a brutal warlord. There are plenty accounts of massacres and all that loveliness in their history too. Also using Christian atrocities from the 11th-13th centuries as justification for attacking a UN building in 2011 is ridiculous.
I guess I'm just wondering why we have to be so damn PC about shit like this? Why do we have to always defend Islam when they do this kinda thing? I realize that not every single Muslim is like this or was involved but aren't we even allowed to get angry at them anymore?
 
Holy shit NS, my bro was stationed in Masr-e-Sharif for a year but is thankfully back now. That is one of the safest places in Afghanistan as far as I know. This is really sad. I thought the pastor decided not to do it a while back, but he must have changed his mind.
 
I agree. I always look around the US and shake my head in disgust at our own Christian religious fanatics but you gotta give them one thing. When a bible or flag is burned, they don't kill people. I know the argument is that the quran is more important than that stuff to these people, but burning a book never justifies killing people.
I know that the Muslim faith is supposed to be non violent but when so many of your peers have been radicalize,d at some point you do have to wonder what your religion represents.
 
the UN is dumb anyway. Fuck that shit. Fuck killing people. And what the fuck is the point of burning shit and making a video of it.

triple fail, boom
 
This is why I say fuck Judeo-Christian Religions. All they do is stir up shit. This whole idea of living your life by following "god's word" is bullshit. It gets people killed, starts arguments like this, and most importantly, pisses me off.
 
our christian extremists burn the koran, they kill 13 innocent people. islamic extremists burn the bible, christians say 'well thats dissapointing' and get on with their lives.

see the difference?

tolerance is a two way street.
 
Lolz. Most Christians don't live in an essentially lawless country with easy access to weapons and an environment where violence is the norm.
 
so if you think christians did, they would kill people as well?

are you one of those apologists that say a persons environment is the reason he killed 3 people so that we shouldn't give him life in prison?

you do realize we're bending over backwards for these people but we aren't getting any respect in return.

would you like to see mecca? good luck with that.

are you from the egyptian christian sect known as the copts? hope you haven't known anyone that has been killed.

where were the moderate muslims (who claim that their religion is understanding and tolerant) to say that 'well jeez you know guys putting a mosque right near ground zero might not be a good idea'

how can you be tolerant of a relgion that doesn't respect a persons freedom of speech, an important staple in western democracy. (dutch cartoonist incident)

you people are seiously sycophants to the islamists. stop being a bunch of soft pussys.

 
In order:
Yup.
Environment and context affect behaviour, and it's silly to pretend otherwise. That doesn't mean we have to forgive anyone of anything, but a little understanding is in order.
I don't think we're seeing an overwhelming effort to be tolerant, no.
I hate to say this, but if the Bible said that all real Christians must go see St. Peter's, it too would be a shit show.
Yeah Egypt's not really a good example because it's not particularly stable otherwise.
We wait for it to mature, like we did with Christianity.
I hate to say this, but you should maybe, I dunno, geteducated?

 
Hi, your country isn't occupied and in the middle of a war. I'm pretty sure you haven't watched most of your family get blown away as "collateral damage".
That's the difference.
 
you answered all my points hypothetically. there isn't an ounce of truth at all to it.

wait for it to mature? are you serious? do you realize how long islam has been around?

secondly, if you were educated on the matter you would know that are copts outside of egypt that have been persecuted for their religion.

 
oh okay, so that makes it alright then to kill members of the UN who are working in that country to support the best interests of the civilians.

anyone remember the radical muslims in london protesting remembrance day? do they not realize that they are protesting the people that died so that the citizens of great britain and beyond could exercise that right?

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3223873/Muslim-mob-burn-giant-poppy-and-disrupt-Remembrance-Day-silence.html

how about this back in 2006 when the danish cartoon fiasco was going on,

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/muslimprotest.asp

seriously, they come here to our western society to expect the shit holes the crawled out from, and then have the audacity to protest our freedom of speech while exercising their own freedoms of speech (assembly) to protest our freedom of speech.

give you fucking heads a shake.
 
Major overreaction. I don't think the Christian/Catholic/Protestant community has ever reacted like this when Islamic people burn bibles. Fuck Islam and fuck religion, if god was real he would not tolerate something like this.
 
do you realize just how stupid you sound?

you crucify one religion and brand them idiots all the while forgetting that people lost their lives over A FUCKING BOOK (thats right A FUCKING BOOK) being burned.

NS never ceases to amazing me at its ability to be completely hypocritical and down right logically inept.

"human rights" are always brought up, and while there are plenty of complete bullshit ones, the human right of free speech / expression is one of the most important.

While the idiot in florida is an absolute idiot for doing what he did. even if i dont agree with what he does, i can support his right to do it. freedom of speech / expression is there to protect not the "wholesome" speech its there to protect this sort of expression.
 
I could not believe her fucking did it. How the fuck can you be so narrow minded, arrogant, megalomaniac, short sighted, irresponsible and idiotic to pull something like that? Why the fuck would you want to burn a symbol of identity in the name of what you watch on FOX news?

This is not free speech, this is an act of war. This is like assassinating royalty. There is no more direct way to incite war than to burn a Koran. This guy should be arrested for treason and hung to drop 2 feet. I wish to see this person dead, for humanity's sake. If we want to be more tolerant, get rid of these people.
 
To what level do we need to go to appease Muslims? He did no personal harm to anyone, or anyone's property. Grow up, this is no longer the middle ages, unfortunately many muslims don't seem to get that yet.
 
so let me get this straight.

expressing ones self (yet causing no tangible harm to anyone) is now grounds for death? if it reaches the level of being "offensive".......

yeah about that......................

also, you only told us WHAT you want to be done. not WHY it should be done.
 
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your logic... i don't even...
so what? if some red neck fuckwad practices his right to free speech he deserves to die because it pissed off a bunch of radical islamists? Guess what else muslims disagree with, Christianity you dumb fuck! does that mean we should all convert to islam to appease them?
 
totally agree.

im glad he burned the Koran. The muslin extremists act like little tiny fucking children. Killing people for burning the Koran? seriously.

I know its sacred to them and shit but why they cant seem to get past the middle ages like this kid said its pathetic.

Another thing that pisses me off is why we have to "appease" to the muslims all the time. you can make fun of any other religion in the world but you cant make fun of Islam, the Koran, or their God Ala(sp?)? Im all for religious tolerance and you can believe what you want to believe but when you start killing innocent people for childish things like burning a book its retarded. Im sick and tired of these fucking extremists and their views.
 
allah. and so the entire religion was involved with these killings? you dont have to appease, you just have to recognize that just because extremists do shit, doesn't mean that you need to hate the second largest religion in the world. and you're glad he burned the quran? why? did you think that extremists will see him burning the quran and think "hey, this man is deliberately trying to incite a violent or passionate response, I think i'm going to deny him the pleasure of seeing my faith further alienated in the west." fuck no. they're called extremists for a reason. and throughout the thread, other people have compared islamic extremists to christian extremists in the west. What they need to understand is that there are so many differing factors, such as economic condition, civil wars, terrorists in your country, daily threatening your lives vs. terrorists halfway across the world, dysfunctional government, and so forth. it is really ridiculous and naive to compare apples to oranges like that.

/ramble
 
I never said it made it right, but people under stress from drawn out wartime occupation and invasion of their home country are going to react differently to religious hate inciting actions than Americans in their cushy suburbia.
 
I'm pretty sure that the odds of that scenario happening would have been slim to none if it wasn't after 9-10 years of occupation and carpet bombing. These people are living in hell and already pushed to the edge, this incident pushed them over.
Yes, it was wrong. Completely wrong in every aspect, it was a massacre.
BUT! there is a difference between mocking a religion in the media and going on to call it the root of all evil and a breeding ground for terrorism and calling people to arms to fight all who follow it, and then desecrate the holy book.
What I'm trying to say is that in order for these events to stop repeating themselves people need to LEARN from their mistakes and become more tolerant of other peoples choice in religion.
I'm sorry, but to blame all Islamic people and use an absolute saying they're all violent aggressive terrorists is wrong.
I have two close friends who are islamic and they're the nicest most genuine soft spoken people I know who would never harm a fly.
Like I said before, a few bad apples give the rest of the (country/religion/group, whatever you want) a bad name.
Free speech is one thing, but mocking and burning Qu'ran's when your country is at WAR and there are soldiers overseas risking their lives? Should it be allowed if it incites killings like these?
 
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