PANIC! in lebanon

yea, the majority of lebanese are very secular, and want a western style democracy, not an islamist regime like what would be implemented if they gained more power in lebanon
 
yea, lebanon is divided up between the druse, christians and muslims

Khalil Gibran, probably the greatest lebanese person ever and one of the greatest 20th century philosophers was from Lebanon and was christian.
 
Right and what im getting at is that we can apply logic and understanding to the middle east all we want but ultimatly there is no peaceful solution.

I would never claim to be an expert on the middle east but I am fairly intelligent and this is how i see it:

A culture of conflict is so ingrained in the cultural ideologies of middle eastern culture that to hope for an amicable solution is pure folly. When given the opertunity of democracy the people of Lebanon (one of the more moderate middle eastern countries) elect 23 officials of parlament that use terrorist tactics to achieve ends. Similarly Iran has proven itself completely incapable of following rational voting practices, electing to office a man who claims "the Holocoust never happened".

Lets forget for a moment all the implications of the word 'Holocost' and simply examine the absurdity of the statement without emotion or moral judgement. "The Holocost did not happen". Okay, where did millions of Jews go? And what the fuck is this?

12-1142.jpg


To me, this isnt about Israel and its missing soldiers, or about Arab families killed by Jewish actions, it is about the inability of the people in the aformentioned countries to make inteligent decisions. Sure I'll admit the Jews are cazy, but at least they dont elect leaders that make truely bombastic and dangerous claims on a daily basis.

The issues between these nations are irreconsilable and im tired of 'help us now' claims directed at the US, comming from all parties invovled in the conflict. The Syrian ambasidor even had the gaul to DEMAND that the United States live up to its Superpower status and press Isreal to cease fire and engage in peace talks, whatever happend to YOUR responsibility Syria? YOUR responsibility not to be evil, dictitorial, opressive and worst of all dangerous to everyone else in the world.

Even if the miraculous were to happen, and tomomorrow Isreal had vanished into thin air, the remaining countries of the Middle East would find other ways to fight eachother over land, or religion or, race or sex, or a plethora of other pathetic rub points.

My bottom line is this: I am over it, i no longer care. If Isreal feels compelled to rampage around and wipe out all their opponents then fine, i dont really give a shit. "But what if they attack us?" you say, or what if we "become involved". Well, my forigen policy regarding the middle east is: dont say so much and carry the biggest fucking stick of all time. I have no faith in Arab world, its people have proven themselves time and time again as incapable of sustainable, functional government, and i hope that Allah whoops their sorry buts when they finally make it to where ever their going.
 
A fellow ns member that I briefly know from ns is stuck in lebanon.

She went there to visit family.

and heres some of stuff she wrote in her blog today! (myspace yeah I know all of you think that shits gay)

im currently in hammana, lebanon.

which is 1hour from the capital, beirut....

but anyways last night they bombed the fuel tanks at the beirut airport...and 3 of the 4 runways are already taken out...yesterday morning..

then at 12am last night (8hr time diff. from texas) they began bombing the demascus highway...they bombed it 6times in 2hrs...we felt everybomb (the windows and doors wood shake and obviously a big ass boom/ echo)...because we are only 5minutes from it...we would run onto the roof to see the explosions..my brother got an amazing picture of the smoke of one of the bombings...and i got one on tape...but u cant see shit...u can only hear it...i will post the picture later...

isreals bombed the airport, basically shes trapped there now.
 
Oh yes we do. Too often people make these issues academic when the really arent. That is the reality, cold and hard, and someone making a claim to the contrary should be allowed their opinion but directed to the exit. Presidential election stands as a testimate to the sickness in Iranian culture.
 
No we fucking dont cooks. we've seen it. you are on NS, not making a speech with a powerpoint trying to convert some neo nazis. this isnt the time or the place to post a picture of some dead humans. really think why you are arguing in the first place, and where you are arguing.
 
I see what you're saying, but don't we as humans all have enemies. I mean yes Arabs "tend" to be more fanatic in beliefs and morals than others, but does that mean they are the only ones using terror and fighting? I mean let's face teh facts, this is really the only time we have given the Middle East this much attention.

The way I see it, they are just the current warring region. It will change. Peace will come and war will rise in another section of the world. Don't forget how long Europe has been a battlefield. Remember in the days of Germanic and Roman battle. There was tons of countries engaged in warfare at that time. The Middle East is just in a time of turmoil, and the dust will clear. Something will happen to change the direction of the agression.

No matter how much we try, we can never eliminate war and enstill peace throughout. Unfortunately, their beliefs aren't just what is at stake in this whole mess, it is their pride and sense of history. To you and I it seems like a worthless piece of land that is not worth the lives of so many innocent people, but to them, it is worth far more than any amount of money. It is about their sense of dignity and worthfullness. Don't ask me how blowing yourself up in a resteraunte will raise your sense of well being, but it does to them.

This is why we as Americans tend to "find" solutions so easy. We say, "Oh just do this, or just do that." We don't understand why they fight or what they are trying to do. Our everyday lives don't let us capture this. We didn't grow up in a land where as a child you are scared into believing things because a bomb hit your house and killed your mother and grandparents.

I agree with you that the US is caught in between a rock and a hard place. We are in a lose-lose situation. Right now the only thing we can do is figure out which one is going to hurt less. Doing something about this shithole, or staying out and let war take it's toll.

 
so... panic! isnt playin in lebanon?? no wonder i couldnt find tickets..

oh right... U.S.A

U

S

A

the only country that matters
 
"Isreal" should have never been formed in the first place. I would've been content giving them the state of Arizona after WWII.

Thats like trying to make things up to african americans by giving them the American South after the civil war... you're just begging for trouble.

Humans have been fighting over the middle east for thousands of year. There is enough turmoil over there as it is. Was it really necessary to add Jews to the mix with land that was extremely controversial.

Arizona was very sparcely populated in the 1950's. It would of been perfect. Nice scenery, some cheap labor, ample ground for building... no Islamic fundamentalists.

 
When i said "that person should be shown the exit" i was talking about the Iranian president, not you. Im sorry if it was misconstrued.
 
The way I see it, they are just the current warring region. It will change. Peace will come and war will rise in another section of the world. Don't forget how long Europe has been a battlefield. Remember in the days of Germanic and Roman battle. There was tons of countries engaged in warfare at that time. The Middle East is just in a time of turmoil, and the dust will clear. Something will happen to change the direction of the agression.

While I see the correlation, i dont think that the path to peace that worked for Europe will work for the middle east. Totalitarianisim is unescapable, a completely differnet breed from the monarchies of old. In old Europe it was possible to start an uprising, hiding in forests or safe houses. Now, with North Korea as my model, its clear that it is impossible to escape the eyes and ears of Kim Jong Ill. The world is to dense, and to connected for a resonable resolution.

This is why we as Americans tend to "find" solutions so easy. We say, "Oh just do this, or just do that." We don't understand why they fight or what they are trying to do. Our everyday lives don't let us capture this. We didn't grow up in a land where as a child you are scared into believing things because a bomb hit your house and killed your mother and grandparents.

Right, I totally agree, these people are breed into cultural identities that involve conflict, that is a given. Whether we are going to sympathise with that logic is another matter. I used to be sympathetic, but i have grown weary of tollerance when it seems if you give an inch they take a mile.

The ONLY thing that will change the general attitude in the middle east is a conflict so large that it brings the whole region to the brink of extinction. As in Europe the threat of losing everything was the only reason compelling enough to drop the haughty nationalism that allowed cultural egoism to fester.
 
Disregard the above post.

In response Mitch.

"The way I see it, they are just the current warring region. It will change. Peace will come and war will rise in another section of the world. Don't forget how long Europe has been a battlefield. Remember in the days of Germanic and Roman battle. There was tons of countries engaged in warfare at that time. The Middle East is just in a time of turmoil, and the dust will clear. Something will happen to change the direction of the agression."

While I see the correlation, i dont think that the path to peace that worked for Europe will work for the middle east. Totalitarianisim is unescapable, a completely differnet breed from the monarchies of old. In old Europe it was possible to start an uprising, hiding in forests or safe houses. Now, with North Korea as my model, its clear that it is impossible to escape the eyes and ears of Kim Jong Ill. The world is to dense, and to connected for a resonable resolution.

"This is why we as Americans tend to "find" solutions so easy. We say, "Oh just do this, or just do that." We don't understand why they fight or what they are trying to do. Our everyday lives don't let us capture this. We didn't grow up in a land where as a child you are scared into believing things because a bomb hit your house and killed your mother and grandparents. "

Right, I totally agree, these people are breed into cultural identities that involve conflict, that is a given. Whether we are going to sympathise with that logic is another matter. I used to be sympathetic, but i have grown weary of tollerance when it seems if you give an inch they take a mile.

The ONLY thing that will change the general attitude in the middle east is a conflict so large that it brings the whole region to the brink of extinction. As in Europe the threat of losing everything was the only reason compelling enough to drop the haughty nationalism that allowed cultural egoism to fester.
 
I didn't read most of the thread, but xxxscratch you actually are the idiot. Iran is the main backer for funding for Hezbollah. So they are very involved.
 
Good input, learn how to read?

If you would learn how to read properly I said that Iran has nothing to do with the LEBANESE government. I didn't say anything about them having nothing to do with Hezbollah. Seeing as Hezbollah only holds 23/128 political seats, this means that the government is not dominated by Hezbollah. In fact, 2/3 of the government wants to DISBAND Hezbollah. Way to display your source of information.

Try again soon?
 
Since im more involved in the other thread about it, i'll say it here. Most of the posts i made in the last two days were made while i was majorly baked. Pretty good i'd say, but im sick and hungover right now, ugh.
 
god i didnt think i could have such hatred towards someone but u have managed to do it. wow first all you left wing fuckers say no to war and how bad it is and being pussies and all that shit and now you want us to go in to a situation that would cause more troops to die for something that doesnt have to do with usso u shut your god damn mouth trying to bash bush when you fuckers cant make up you mind about what you want you just go against anything bush does.
 
actually atlantaski is somewhat right for once, however, bush being the oppurtunist that he is is going to see Israel as a potential ally to take out Iran, and he will not pass it up, i guarantee within 6 months we will see israeli and us soldiers in iran and then bam you'll see my ass gettin draftedddd
 
The real problem is that too many people in the middle east support fundementalisim. Ya, i know that there are moderates in the arab world but it seems to me that every time we eliminate a leader, some other head of the hydra pops up. Im not saying war is the right or wrong course of action cause honestly i dont know. The only true solution i see...maniacal as it sounds...is elimination, but you cant do that. AHHHH im so sick of these people and their problems.
 
thats not right man.

iran is very likely to enter the conflict, b/c of there relations with hezbollah.

i know this for a fact b/c my uncle read it to me in the washington post 2 days ago
 
I dont see at all where you are getting the idea that i am a liberal.

What did Iraq have to do with us, before trying to go on your testosterone driven 16 year old quasi conservative rhetoric you should realize that over half of registered republicans in the US do not approve of president bush.

So i highly reccomend you just do not try to defend or throw out rhetoric that you really have no idea about
 
well now it does thanks to our president

by going to war with iraq, we have only increased out national debt, raised gas prices to astronomical levels, killed almost half a million iraqi civilans for the cost of 3,000 american lives....The iraqi interim government will ultimately implode and have a radical islamic government take its place, ultimately destablizing the middle east even more and making it an even more dangerous and anti American hotbed- all because of us
 
well i dont see one pragmatic solution that we can do right now,other than stay the course. This is unfortunate because the war is the sole contributor to escalating gas prices. Ideally, if we could somehow get all of iraq to end sectarian violence and embrace a strong central and religiously sensitive government we would be in good shape, but this doesnt seem to work. If we pull out, it will just cause iraq to descend into a larger state of unrest, with a possible iranian incursion into the country, limiting our oil from iraq as well. Perhaps, the country should be re divided along cultural and religious lines, making 3 new countries for sunni muslim,shiites, and kurds
 
i'm going to agree with atlantaski on iraq, it was not a necessary war at all, the war was based in revenge and gas prices but as we can all see the gas thing was a total failure, also the interim iraqi government will undoubtedly fall. So yes saddam gased some kurds, but the death toll wasn't nearly as high then as it is now
 
ok guess everyone thats trying to prove atlantaski wrong , your not he knows what hes talking about and if u dont beleve about shit thats happening dont reply to the thread
 
yes. gas prices never go up in the summer...

besides this, everything you said is pretty much correct, if what i learned at this weird senate symposium is legit.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top