ON3P Billy Goat

[marcomarinescu]

Hello, I am looking to get the Billy Goat 118.

I am 5′ 10″ and 145 lbs. I am a very advanced skier (skiing for 24 years) and I am looking for a ski for 90% freeride-touring and 10% inbounds. I will be skiing a good mix between forests and trees (sometimes very tight) but also big mountain lines. The type of snow will be variable and days with very deep powder are less common, unfortunately.

I like to charge really fast on the skis and I am looking for a stable yet very floaty ski for days with soft snow. A big bonus for tight turning in deep forests with close trees. I also like to send big cliffs and I want a ski that offers control and a stable platform when I land big drops with high speed.

As for context, my go to ski that I skied for the last two seasons was 4FRNT Hoji. I love how this ski feels in powder, how easy is to turn and get it on edge, and the fact that is very light, but the downsides of it is that the durability is extremely bad, it doesn't offer that much stability at bigger jumps, and at higher speeds it loses stability.

Do you think the Billy Goat would be a good fit for what I am looking for? If so, should I go for the 181 or 186?

**This thread was edited on May 9th 2024 at 7:43:47am

 

[profa_212]

Billy goat is my favorite directional pow ski of all time. I've skied the OG billys, the 2016ish billys (before Asym) and now am currently on the 108 tours.

They do an outstanding job switching between pivoty floaty skiing and driving through crud. Which is a super rare aspect for a ski..... So, I think they would be a great ski for you.

Only thing I would say is to explore the tour version. It'll save a quite a bit of weight for the uphill. Also, I would go 186 if I were you.

 

[jca]

I'm also a huge BG fan, I have the 2014 186 and 2022 187 tour and I'm 5'8", 160lbs.

They're very versatile off piste and the sidecut does an excellent job of combining high speed stability/tracking and lower speed pivoting/slashing in tight spaces. The only downside is they don't arc turns on groomed snow as well as a more traditional sidecut ski, you can still carve just fine but they clearly aren't designed for carving.

I think the BG would be a great fit for you, the 50/50 layup might be a good contender if you're willing to splurge on customs.

If you were mostly skiing powder with them, I'd consider the tour layup as they do a pretty good job for a lightish ski. But as you say you ski more variable snow, I think the standard layup is the way to go if you're willing to deal with the weight on the way up (excellent pairing with CAST or Duke PT).

 

[-eREKTion-]

Billy goat is my favorite directional pow ski of all time. I've skied the OG billys, the 2016ish billys (before Asym) and now am currently on the 108 tours.

They do an outstanding job switching between pivoty floaty skiing and driving through crud. Which is a super rare aspect for a ski..... So, I think they would be a great ski for you.

Only thing I would say is to explore the tour version. It'll save a quite a bit of weight for the uphill. Also, I would go 186 if I were you.

I’m seriously considering a 50/50 build of the BG108 as a 1 ski touring quiver. How’s the deep snow performance compared to a wider ski and how’s the shape do in weird/hard backcountry snow?

 

[profa_212]

I’m seriously considering a 50/50 build of the BG108 as a 1 ski touring quiver. How’s the deep snow performance compared to a wider ski and how’s the shape do in weird/hard backcountry snow?

Dope!

I am 5'10 and 160ish lbs riding the 2021 189cm ones. I am not sure on all the changes since then.....but here are some thoughts!

I have the full tour layup. So they would get bounced around a little more than yours would, but I still found them to hold up well through the little chunder/light avy debris I have had them in. Even with them mounted with brakeless alpinists. But I also had the expectation that they would get tossed around just with how light they are.

Deep snow they are a blast. Very pivoty, poppy, and in general just a fun ski. I haven't had any issues sinking at all. Deepest day was maybe 10inches. I also saw the same performance throughout the spring corn or slush days, or any sort of windbuff. Basically, if you give them an inch or two of soft, they really come to life which is really similar to how my standard 118 billy goats have skied in the past.

On real hard windblast/bulletproof stuff, they got a little sketchier as is expected. The RES just doesn't lend itself to driving the tips and digging down on nice carves on ice. If you have rode any other billy goats you would know what I am talking about. I personally wouldn't call it a bad thing, and it is just a limitation of the ski that you learn to adjust to. Pivot turns and find the windbuff and then you are able to start driving them.

I found that they had a pleasant lack of hookyness in variable when compared to my last few touring skis which were more standard skis (Praxis freerides UL core, which were high camber bullets....and Praxis Backcountry UL cores, which were a decent enough ski). I did a light detune on the nose rocker, and a little through the tail. If were talkin the multi-inch thick breakable crust that we see sometimes, well that shit just sucks ass and I tend to just wait for the next refresh lol.

Overall, if you are looking to ski softer snow, they can handle anything from mach potato to pivoty storm day tree skiing. If you find yourself constantly peak bagging on windblast or ice, I would probably go with a high camber more standard ski instead. But I found that they were a great 1 ski touring quiver for me and my touring habits in Tahoe. If I was still down there I would totally let you try them out....but I think you would be happy with them.

 

[-eREKTion-]

[tag=180149]@profa_212[/tag] thanks for the info, sounds like how I imagined they would perform. I feel like I’ve agreed with your ski takes pretty consistently on gear talk, so I’ll probably enjoy the BG108 too.

 

[marcomarinescu]

Thanks for all the input guys! I really appreciate all the feedback, much easier to make the decision now.

They do an outstanding job switching between pivoty floaty skiing and driving through crud. Which is a super rare aspect for a ski..... So, I think they would be a great ski for you.

They're very versatile off piste and the sidecut does an excellent job of combining high speed stability/tracking and lower speed pivoting/slashing in tight spaces. The only downside is they don't arc turns on groomed snow as well as a more traditional sidecut ski, you can still carve just fine but they clearly aren't designed for carving.

I think the BG would be a great fit for you, the 50/50 layup might be a good contender if you're willing to splurge on customs.

That description that you guys said regarding flawlessly switching from floaty pivoty skiing (when skiing pow in the trees) to high speed charging with wide long turns, is simply golden info! It's amazing to know it can do this, since it's exactly what I am looking for in a ski! Also managing to do a good job in variable snow is a huge plus!

I also heard that it comes alive at moderate to high speeds. I think this is exactly what I am looking for! A ski that I can charge really hard, giving me confidence when skiing full speed, stomping cliffs and big airs, as well as being able to pivot it and throw in on-the-fly adjustments when skiing trees, and less than ideal snow conditions.

Also, I would go 186 if I were you.

Ok exactly what my thoughts were, that I would go for the 186, so I already placed an order for the standard Billy Goats 186 but the guys from ON3P told me this:

"We'd typically have you comfortable in the 181 range for length - though you could potentially bump up to 186, would definitely be leaning on the longer side, and probably counterproductive to your emphasis on agility. In either case, its also worth noting that our skis are measured straight pull post-press vs. most companies who measure pre-press, material flat. So, our 181 would be equal to most other companies' 184ish. However, the rocker profile on the BG (and all our shapes) is pretty aggressive, so even though they'll look "long" when compared to your 4frnt, they'll feel quicker on-snow due to a shorter effective edge and contact surface area."

And I am now undecided if I should go for the 186 or 181. Is that true that their size is a bit longer than most other companies? If the 181 would be equal to my 184 Hoji then I would probably go for the 181.

A few considerents here:

Since the rocker is pronounced and the effective edge is shorter anyway I would be willing to go for the 186, thinking it would offer a bit more stability and support at jumps and high speed.

However, on the flip side I would go for the 181 for the following reasons: I am pretty light (145lbs), there is also 100g in weight saving, will probably be more agile and easier to pivot and throw on-the-fly adjustments in tight spaces. I am also 95% thinking I will pair it with the Look Pivot / CAST which will make the setup heavier and all this added weight is making me think it would take a bit more effort to control the ski and get it on the edge, so the 181 would come in handy here.

What do you guys think?

Thanks!

**This post was edited on May 14th 2024 at 4:46:05am

**This post was edited on May 14th 2024 at 4:47:53am

 

[Session]

I have been on 191, 186, and 184 BG's. I have about 65 lbs on you, and I settled on the 186. That being said the specs have changed a little since I last owned a pair.

If you are as strong a skier as you say you could probably rock the 186, but would probably be happy on the 181.

 

[profa_212]

I have been on 191, 186, and 184 BG's. I have about 65 lbs on you, and I settled on the 186. That being said the specs have changed a little since I last owned a pair.

If you are as strong a skier as you say you could probably rock the 186, but would probably be happy on the 181.

Yup. Exactly what I was thinking. If I was 20 again skiing how I wish I still did then 186. If not 181. Just depends on if your willing to work the skis or not.

 

[stonedbrian]

what would happen if someone mounted the billygoat somewhere reasonable and not -10 cm or something? maybe something like -6~?

 

[Session]

what would happen if someone mounted the billygoat somewhere reasonable and not -10 cm or something? maybe something like -6~?

If you want a more forward mount then it's not the ski for you.Due to the characteristics of the RES there is really a tiny sweet spot. The design is intended to give the front of the ski the benefits of a reverse sidecut ski, blended in to the back of the ski which is more traditional.

You wouldn't die, but you would lose a lot of benefits that the overall design is known for. Which is why I currently don't ski the BG.

 

[kid-kapow]

I have a ton of days on 184 BGasyms, 181 BG118 (previous version), 184 pre-asyms, 189 and 184 C&Ds (arguably a 124mm underfoot version of the BG, with a modified flex pattern) as well as both 184 BG108tours and 181 BG110s (resort/stock layup).

All are variations on fantastic pow skis. All pivot really easily, yet like to go fast doing mach schnell. Their shorter (relative to Hoji) and more pintailed tails are supportive, yet the more difficult the snow is (dense, variable or crusty) the more like a cheat code they become (unlike the previous gen Hoji whose long tails became a liability on crusty snow imho). Their shape makes skiing dense, difficult snow much like skiing light snow.

My favorites are BG108tours, BG pre-asyms and 189 C&Ds.

BG108tours are possibly the best touring ski I've skied. True hero skis - make you try whatever and kinda make you stop thinking about them. I stupidly sold them to get some BG110s in the stock layup, a ski I did not love. I def bought the wrong size though, should have bought 187s not 181s - their tails just felt too puny. Mounting them a bit forward might have been enough to mitigate it, but at the end of the day I decided that I do not want a 110 RES ski in the quiver, I want my 110 skis (daily drivers around here) to have hard snow prowess as well.

BG pre-asyms (the generation just prior to the asyms) haul like asyms, but also have a bit more supportive tails (supportive as in larger surface area to lean into, not stiffer - their flex patterns were much the same). The asymmetrical tails release soooo easily, which is sweet for some, but where I found that I preferred the non asym shape for more end of turn support.

Cease&Desists have stronger tails and softer shovels, to be even more floaty. The asym tails work really well with these, yet the slightly softer foreskis have made me drift toward my 189s over my 184s. Both are bloody great though.

I quite liked the previous version of the BG118, but should have gotten the 187s, much like the BG110s. In the end I preferred the stronger 184 BG pre-asym over them. The idea with getting the BG118 was also to merge the BG and C&D into a single ski, but I since decided to keep both so keeping the 118s did not make sense. The current version is supposedly beefed up a bit compared to the previous 118 version, so the current 181 is supposedly the most akin to the previous 184. The previous 181 felt more like a 179 that had gotten a bit longer.

I would not be afraid of sizing up though, RES skis are still fairly easy to ski in their habitat (soft to variable snow).

And yes, RES skis = mount on the line, unless you have a very specific reason not to. A few skiers mount them at +2, but I would not recommend going forward or aft for most skiers. The shape produces this very special feel where you kinda feel like you are standing on a hoover board with max float right in front of your toes, which is partly why schmearing and flicking the tails around is so damned effortless - yet their overall strength, weight and pintailed (wider shovels, tapering into narrower tails) is what them jam so damned hard in difficult snow.

RES skis are great if you want to ski the fastest from top to bottom doing huge arcs, yet want to retain the ability to effortlessly put the tails whereever you want, either to turn or dump speed. You can drive the shit of the shovels (asyms could wash out a bit in dry snow if you over-drove them) or ski them more from a more centered stance. They are 100% directional weapons - if you want to ski switch, then these are not for you. Mounting them forward will not make them into freestyle skis - just ruin their magic.

hm, this turned into quite the essay. Oh well

 

[kid-kapow]

RES

I am 175cm / 70kg nekkid

I would prob get 186s for resort use as I prioritize brawn and floatiness over increased nimbleness, but I might have considered 181s for touring.

ON3P's advice is usually spot on though, so I would not be hesitant to go with their recommendation.

 

[-eREKTion-]

About to pull the trigger on a custom build BG108 50/50. Plan to mount with Duke PT’s and use as my daily touring ski for Mammoth and the Eastern Sierra. I’m not that worried about the potential downsides of RES on really bad snow because I don’t ski any particularly consequential terrain in the backcountry. Really just want a solid ski that can handle some moderate angle sub-alpine pow laps in the winter and rip the Sierra corn harvest up in the spring. BG108 guys, is this the ski for me?

 

[kid-kapow]

About to pull the trigger on a custom build BG108 50/50. Plan to mount with Duke PT’s and use as my daily touring ski for Mammoth and the Eastern Sierra. I’m not that worried about the potential downsides of RES on really bad snow because I don’t ski any particularly consequential terrain in the backcountry. Really just want a solid ski that can handle some moderate angle sub-alpine pow laps in the winter and rip the Sierra corn harvest up in the spring. BG108 guys, is this the ski for me?

BG108s are simply fantastic touring skis, both in the tour and 50/50 layup. I tend to not go touring if the snow is shit, so hard snow prowess is not much of a factor for a 10x wide touring ski for me.

But Duke PTs? I would urge you to go with ATKs for a true touring binding or Tectons for a more 60/40 solution. The weight difference on the up is massive at 600gr and 300gr +/-, and yes - it will make the going up part a lot more enjoyable. Both ski down soft snow very well. Tectons is the more comfortable setup due to its increased elasticity, whereas ATKs are more direct. Again, I at least do not go touring for shit snow, so investing in a bit of extra heft, suspension and sturdiness in the ski going 50/50 over tour construction makes sense, but not if you are then going to slap boat anchors on them imho.

Cast and Duke PTs exist to make regular skis have the option of touring, not to be bolted on touring skis imho. SkiEssentials might not agree, but they clearly do not know the first thing about touring.

 

[-eREKTion-]

BG108s are simply fantastic touring skis, both in the tour and 50/50 layup. I tend to not go touring if the snow is shit, so hard snow prowess is not much of a factor for a 10x wide touring ski for me.

But Duke PTs? I would urge you to go with ATKs for a true touring binding or Tectons for a more 60/40 solution. The weight difference on the up is massive at 600gr and 300gr +/-, and yes - it will make the going up part a lot more enjoyable. Both ski down soft snow very well. Tectons is the more comfortable setup due to its increased elasticity, whereas ATKs are more direct. Again, I at least do not go touring for shit snow, so investing in a bit of extra heft, suspension and sturdiness in the ski going 50/50 over tour construction makes sense, but not if you are then going to slap boat anchors on them imho.

Cast and Duke PTs exist to make regular skis have the option of touring, not to be bolted on touring skis imho. SkiEssentials might not agree, but they clearly do not know the first thing about touring.

I totally agree with everything you said dude. BUT I choose to use Duke/Shift/CAST because I have a very physically demanding day job and an injury could effectively ruin my career. The marginal added safety benefit of a full DIN binding is worth the mountain of trade-offs to me at this point in my career.

 

[kid-kapow]

I totally agree with everything you said dude. BUT I choose to use Duke/Shift/CAST because I have a very physically demanding day job and an injury could effectively ruin my career. The marginal added safety benefit of a full DIN binding is worth the mountain of trade-offs to me at this point in my career.

that sounds like a good decision man. The main thing about any ski setup - bc ski setup in particular - should be that one trusts it. If one does not one skis timidly, and voila, accidents happen. You can always get more in shape for the up, but having confidence on the down is key.

Besides, 50/50 BG108s with Duke PTs should be a fantastic tree / the day after ski for resort use as well. The 50/50 layup skis amazingly well imho, while still retaining most of the standard layup's ability to take rediculous amounts of abuse.

Sounds like you've got the setup dialed for your needs

 

[kid-kapow]

I mounted my pair of BG108tours in 186 today. Very happy with how they turned out - went with Vipecs over ATKs for added ride comfort / ride feel due to the non-rotating heels and elasticity in the toes - well worth it imho. I've regretted selling my previous pair of 184 BG108tours to make the swap to 181 BG110s in the stock layup - a ski I never really jived with - so happy to have a new pair of tours

The graphics are sensational in person and the build quality is immaculate - happy camper indeed