NS why do you like OBAMA?......No Canadians allowed.

the stimulus is something he had planned well before he was in office obviously. not a random situation that just popped up suddenly. and im quite sure he talked to economists...

as for your its quite obvious comment. your an idiot. clearly your 5 mins of youtube searching has covered how the entire populous of the united states voted. not to mention i could find plenty of "obamas a terrorist" "hes a muslim" "hes a nigger" etc videos, if i wanted to waste time doing that. but i have finals, and you clearly arent capable of basic reasoning, so ill leave you to do that yourself
 
i love how you cant just agree that tons of people that voted for obama had no fucking clue why they were even voting... its not hard ben really its not man.
 
and im not saying i know everything or that im the smartest person out there and knew every plan each candidate had but i know a hell of a lot more than the people in that video.
 
Good god, you are simply not capable of seeing another side. I'm open to suggestions and shit (as seen earlier in the thread) but you refuse to accept anything that anyone says. That's worse than ignorance man. By calling me an idiot, and telling other people to "blow you" you lose creditability. I'm pretty sure I am capable of basic reasoning, but you present no case on the other side. I've shown an example, and you just say that everyone around you calls Obama a terrorist (ironically Montana voted for Obama) but then you say that because someone else has an anecdote about how people blindly vote for Obama that it's not creditable. Make up your mind, pretty hypocritical. And yes, he did plan it before he was in office, but there were many editions made just days before it was passed. This included ridiculous stuff, such as funding bow and arrows for fishing in Alaska (somewhere around $20 million I believe.) I know most of it went towards better causes, but you get my point. I'm just suggesting to be open to ideas, instead of refusing to believe anything that anyone tells you. It helps discover the truth. For example, I just read a journal from a priest with Christopher Columbus, and America's beloved "finder" murdered, raped, and enslaved millions of Native Americans.
 
im open to new ideas. i really am. and im not trying to deny that there were some fucking MORONS that voted for barack. see half my high school.... jesus they were idiots. im simply trying to say you cant make the VAST generalization that there were more dumb voters for one than the other based on a quick youtube search, or a poll on a site with as limited of a demographic as facebook.

was there some ridiculous stuff in the stimulus? absolutely. but i think hes going about it in the right general direction. the sad fact is, these days you CANNOT pass bills without pork. i dont like it anymore than you, but what are we going to do?

and yeah, columbus was a massive douche ahahahha
 
when have i said that there werent tons of idiots? there's a TON. but its a ton on BOTH sides
 
facebook works perfect someone mentioned the numbers early.. it was something like 5 million to 500 thousand lol in groups. ya its a facebook group but come on look at the difference in numbers!
 
demographic! as you said, a lot of college kids voted for barack because it was hip. ghasp! college kids use facebook!!!

old wrinkly racists in the south tend to not be on top of the social networking so much, at least not until the KKK starts a facebook group
 
you get my point though. a legitimate study of this would be impossible. you cant know how many people actually voted for barack not knowing what they were talking about (how do you quantify that). and its impossible to know how many closet racists there are that swear it was for other reasons, but in reality its because of his color, false beliefs of his religion, etc.
 
way more black people voted that have never voted before than racist kkk members i bet. i know there are no numbers but i mean come on a black president shit black people came out of the woodwork to vote for him just because he was black... thats like millions of votes that would have never happened if both candidates were white. i dont think you can really argue that.
 
but how do you PROVE why they were voting. and how do you know we didnt have more RACISTS voting this election than any other. plus i look at it this way. that evens out the predominantly black districts where republicans send out fake polling place changes etc. it all evens out in the end.
 
i really dont think it evens out at all but we will never know. well we can also count all the idiot college kids that we have discussed, they voted cause obama was the COOL vote lol.
 
but there were also plenty of college kids who did vote for him for a reason besides that, and again, how do you quantify that?

but as you said, well never know.
 
These anecdotes from your personal lives and observations have no weight. You can't make these broad generalizations without doing a shit ton of empirical research and mass polling and even then there is a ridiculous margain of error. You need to drop the voting shit as the reason that you don't like obama and focus more on the policies. Anecdotes have no place in debates like these.
 
cool. im not saying stupid people voting for obama is the reason i dont like him. im glad you wasted your time saying all that. i think ben knows its because of his policies, we were just all on the subject of people voting.

good talk.
 
And for the record I give obama a 7/10 so far. I really like his foreign policy (more diplomatic, leaving Iraq ect.) and I realize afghanistan needs increase engagement but I really hate to see more increases in military. The US is trapped in a military industrial complex and has been since after WWII, greatly excellerated by the cold war. I like that he is tackling health care reform which is a major issue that affects all parts of the economy because it is so ridiculously inefficient now. I wish he would take on decriminalizing/legalizing marijuana because that is a no brainer but I realize that takes valuable political capital that he needs right now.

It seems to me that most of his blunders have been on things that don't matter like giving stupid gifts to other heads of state and using a teleprompter too much? I don't care if he fuckin looks down and reads a speech the whole time as long as he gets the country on a better track... which I think he is doing.
 
Okay well your argument was that stupid people voted Obama into office when there is clearly no way of know how many stupid people voted for either candidate so that argument had no weight. Cool.
 
i said it had no weight without numbers, i was arguing that man........ it was my guess that there were more uniformed voters on the obama side but we will never really know.

im ok with his foreign policy, iraq is just a huge waste of money. the health care shit and tax plan im not to sure about both i think need some more thought put into them before we really try and run shit through.

 
Well, I'm an expert on neither but I do try to keep up. The country does need a lot more revenue and there is a huge wage gap in America that is scary so taxing the rich heavier makes sense there... the cap and trade can be offset by government give backs to the people whose energy bills increase substantially... I think it is necessary because the environment is probably in the top 2 issues that needs to be addressed (worldwide, not just the US). I'm not to well school on health care policy yet but I do know that the current private system is far too inefficient and has so much waste. People claim systems like Canada are terrible but I would venture to say ours is worse... and ones like France's are far superior.

The one thing I do know is that we should be the number 1 country on the planet because of our massive growth and wealth but we are far from it in the rankings on things like infant mortality rate and life expectancy. This irks me because these are measures of the quality of life in a country.

Overall, I'm a little wary of some things like the stimulus and the bailouts but I think they are necessary and I'm just giving him more time. I will also be far more knowledgable as I continue on in life so I'm not going to make any concrete predictions of accusations, although I am far from clueless... sophmore poli sci/econ/environmental studies major for some perspective.
 
he might not be the greatest president ever, but i like his fresh new vibe.

For ex: I used to live in a small island off the coast of greece called cyprus (weird i know), all my relatives and friends hated the US because of the Bush administration, now i have found that they all like Obama much and dont actually hate the US anymore, and they all actually wanna come visit here and respect our country not

thats my $0.02 and thanks for reading maybe youll like him better now haha
 
yes. but keep in mind that blacks have a significantly lower average income. therefore they would for the most part be for obamas economic policies, not another president giving rich people a break.
 
time for me to piss ben off... of the 20 black people i know... 18 voted for him BECAUSE he is Black... the other 2 did because they didnt like what McCain's plans were..... you have to be honest to an extent ben... most black people voted for Obama cause he was black.
 
YOU CANT FUCKING PROVE THAT. it may be true. but there is literally no way whatsoever to do a legitimate poll/study that would prove that. you can pull out all the anecdotal evidence you want, it still doesnt make it true.
 
how about the EPA saying that corn ethanol is actually worse for the climate vs gas.

can we stop with ethanol already? here in my state its actually subsidized. and on a national level its subsidized to a massive amount.

let the market decide if ethanol is a good idea, ide be willing to place a bet that it would fall FLAT on its face.

not to mention your car get shitty gas mileage when running that shit. something like 30% worse. but no, we gotta save the environment. even though ethanol shits on it. yet we keep propping it up with MY MONEY.

/pissed off rant. :)
 
I agree 100 percent. I also read a report that said bio fuels have inceased food prices 75 percent... corn ethanol seems like an excuse to keep subsidizing the farming industry, also hemp (which shouldn't be illegal at all) would produce a lot more biofuel than corn can with less detriment to the environment.... but of course common sense does not guide policy. These truths about things like bio fuel not being green need to be mainstream ideas, i bet a ton of people still think bio fuels help save the environment.
 
It actually costs alot more to produce corn ethanol than what they sell it for, it also raises food prices for everyone which means it is a general drain on the economy.
Now not all biofuels are bad. Some people have started using switchgrass to make it which is just a type of grass. This can be grown on farm land that the goverment is already paying people to grow grass on. This means it would not be driving up food costs and it is grass so once you plant it it stays for a long time and doesnt have much upkeep cost. Since their are not to many competitors for this product besides as a heating source (pelletized for some biomas stoves) the price will hopefully stay relatively low. This means that you could possibly be able to make money by making a biofuel in this way.

On another note to the person who said the Seals flew in by helicopter: All the reports I saw said they halo jumped in. Which means high altitude jump low altitude opening of the parachute (not helo= helocopter) but if all those reports where wrong then I am sorry.
 
isnt that the same sort of thing with the Hybrid cars? like, they produce MORE pollution to manufacture than they save even in the long term?
 
i dont know jack shit about the ethanol thing so im not going to say anything about that.

but as far as hybrids, it depends on how long you keep your car for really. and i think with MORE hybrid cars and more research, we could come up with way more efficient ways to build them
 
that would be really interesting to know but it wouldnt surprise me. Come on with a regular standard Honda civic you can get 40 miles to the gallon no problem. In a hybrid I think your only getting 60 or so if I remember right. That means your not cutting alot of pollution and I have heard it takes more to produce them than a regular car. So you could very easily be correct there.
 
which is part of the problem. where is the incentive for car companies to research this while people are still buying giant gas guzzlers?
 
really Ben, i really dont know what else to say because every time someone says something about the president u love so much, u say no it cant be right, EVERY TIME! its like u wont accept anything, ur telling me u honestly dont think the majority of that 97% didnt vote for him because he is black?
 
im really not gunna go read through the whole thread, and dont give me this whole its impossible to find out that kind of statistic bullshit, open ur eyes and think logically
 
at 4500 my current gas guzzler was the only fucking thing i could afford that would also allow me to haul my shit out here to school.
 
no. you open your eyes and think logically. it may be right, but the fact of the matter is, you cannot prove it. it is impossible. so please, stop with the stupid voting bullshit. its pointless anecdotal crap.
 
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