No WoodBird park this spring

[SlushSeason]

Snowbird sent out an email that mentioned that they will not have a Woodward park this spring. This reneges on their promise to bring it back again this year. The woodbird park was a fantastic time last year and the great experience in April and May were what kept me around after dealing with parking, traffic, and crowding all winter.

In addition, this year, they are closing roughly half their terrain on April 14th. Snowbird's biggest selling point has been their long season and great spring skiing. This year, however, they're closing most of the mountain before even Alta does. While Brighton and Solitude have been making improvements to their late season skiing each year, Snowbird is selling out their goodwill, cutting costs and terrain as soon as the ikon tourists stop showing up for the season.

 

[dwt802]

Sounds pretty lame

 

[BigPurpleSkiSuit]

Snowbird sent out an email that mentioned that they will not have a Woodward park this spring. This reneges on their promise to bring it back again this year. The woodbird park was a fantastic time last year and the great experience in April and May were what kept me around after dealing with parking, traffic, and crowding all winter.

In addition, this year, they are closing roughly half their terrain on April 14th. Snowbird's biggest selling point has been their long season and great spring skiing. This year, however, they're closing most of the mountain before even Alta does. While Brighton and Solitude have been making improvements to their late season skiing each year, Snowbird is selling out their goodwill, cutting costs and terrain as soon as the ikon tourists stop showing up for the season.

where is this email?

**This post was edited on Mar 6th 2024 at 6:02:17pm

 

[BigPurpleSkiSuit]

okay it's not half, Little cloud area will still be open, lower gad valley will be closed, as will Gad 2, I think that's pretty normal. Sucks we don't get a park this year, but whatever, Peruvian Mineral and Tram will still run which means all the stuff I really care about will be open. Gonna miss bombing Big Emma but it's not half of bird terrain

 

[SlushSeason]

It's not half of the lifts, but if they're closing most of the gad side, they'll take the opportunity to close high and mid baldy at the same time. Likely much of the cirque too. It really hurts to ride up peruvian in great conditions only for the amphitheater to be closed a month before it needs to be.

okay it's not half, Little cloud area will still be open, lower gad valley will be closed, as will Gad 2, I think that's pretty normal. Sucks we don't get a park this year, but whatever, Peruvian Mineral and Tram will still run which means all the stuff I really care about will be open. Gonna miss bombing Big Emma but it's not half of bird terrain

 

[SlushSeason]

Here's the link from the email

Link

Idk why they're canceling woodbird. They said it was coming back this year and it seems like a no-brainer to build a park there after woodward closes. I wouldn't mind if they scaled it back but cancelling it outright is lame as hell. It's extra disappointing that they buried the news like this without an explanation. Especially with Brighton and Solitude putting in work to provide a good experience for their locals in the late spring

where is this email?

**This post was edited on Mar 6th 2024 at 6:02:17pm

 

[crimeenthusiast]

pretty lame, not surprising. snowbird is no longer run by die hard skiers. make powdr corp sell

 

[GayWolf420]

This is what happens when you hire college kids and J1's to work at your resort. They all bail in March and stick the career-folks with the shit end of the stick.

 

[mikem]

Snowbird as a corporation is terrible and they should do parking res.

 

[BigPurpleSkiSuit]

I would still rather have powdr Corp over alterra or vail

pretty lame, not surprising. snowbird is no longer run by die hard skiers. make powdr corp sell

 

[mrk127]

That mineral basin park last year looked so much fun. Jealous I didn’t get to ride it

 

[SlushSeason]

I'm holding onto some hope they add parking reservations for next season. If not, goodbye bird, hello Alta

Snowbird as a corporation is terrible and they should do parking res.

 

[NutsToRail]

When does Woodward PC close their winter mt riding?

 

[mrk127]

Why do you all want parking reservations at Bird? Sounds even worse

 

[SlushSeason]

It would cut down on traffic significantly and i wouldn't have to get there 2 hours before lifts open to get a parking spot. Alta has had reserved parking for a couple years now and it's been great for their passholders

Why do you all want parking reservations at Bird? Sounds even worse

 

[mikem]

I'm holding onto some hope they add parking reservations for next season. If not, goodbye bird, hello Alta

Come join us at alta. It will make you feel like resort skiing still has a soul.

The only bad thing about alta is when snowbird roadside parks the entire canyon, imagine walking up from white pine.

 

[BigPurpleSkiSuit]

Less cars=less people and way less ikon yahoos

Why do you all want parking reservations at Bird? Sounds even worse

 

[eheath]

Idk why they're canceling woodbird. They said it was coming back this year and it seems like a no-brainer to build a park there after woodward closes.

Why is it a "no brainer"? They are spending 50-100k building that park, its a marketing move and last year it wasn't "successful" enough to justify the spending.

 

[BigPurpleSkiSuit]

Well, they had peace park last year, not sure exactly how much money they made off it but everyone loved having a park at Snowbird there.

Also for them to say not enough resources from both ends when POWDR owns both companies and then decide to move Wilbur for the racers and upgrade Mid Gad lodge which no one would care if it burnt down overnight is kind of a kick in the dick

Why is it a "no brainer"? They are spending 50-100k building that park, its a marketing move and last year it wasn't "successful" enough to justify the spending.

 

[eheath]

Well, they had peace park last year, not sure exactly how much money they made off it but everyone loved having a park at Snowbird there.

Also for them to say not enough resources from both ends when POWDR owns both companies and then decide to move Wilbur for the racers and upgrade Mid Gad lodge which no one would care if it burnt down overnight is kind of a kick in the dick

Without peace park, my guess is that it's not worth it for the resort, they'd be lucky if they even broke even last year. Im sure it was accepted by many people and even heralded as a great, but that doesn't put money in Powdr corps pocket.

Snowbird acts like they care about locals and passholders but its all bullshit dude, powdr is the same thing as vail/alterra.

 

[SlushSeason]

It's a no brainer because the terrain is perfect for it, they have all the park crew hired already, and they need something to compete with Solitude and Brighton in May.

Why would they claim it was coming back if it wasn't successful enough? Even if it wasn't very successful, all the Canyon closures last year throw off the data.

Yeah, the big jump line was very expensive to build, but 95% of the skiers hit the small/mid-size lines instead which took probably 1/4th the work. Honestly I wouldn't be upset at all if they downsized the park, as long as they kept it open for a month. Dropping this announcement on is with no explanation is killing snowbird's goodwill with locals. Terrain alone can't carry a resort when all the other local resorts give their passholders a better experience

Why is it a "no brainer"? They are spending 50-100k building that park, its a marketing move and last year it wasn't "successful" enough to justify the spending.

 

[eheath]

It's a no brainer because the terrain is perfect for it, they have all the park crew hired already, and they need something to compete with Solitude and Brighton in May.

Why would they claim it was coming back if it wasn't successful enough? Even if it wasn't very successful, all the Canyon closures last year throw off the data.

Yeah, the big jump line was very expensive to build, but 95% of the skiers hit the small/mid-size lines instead which took probably 1/4th the work. Honestly I wouldn't be upset at all if they downsized the park, as long as they kept it open for a month. Dropping this announcement on is with no explanation is killing snowbird's goodwill with locals. Terrain alone can't carry a resort when all the other local resorts give their passholders a better experience

My only point is that making the park costs money, it doesn't bring in any money, so why is it a "no brainer"?

like i said to BPSS, snowbird doesn't care about locals, maybe you're just figuring this one out.

 

[eheath]

Terrain alone can't carry a resort when all the other local resorts give their passholders a better experience

Snowbird did just fine without a park for a long time man, not sure how now is any different, park skiing is less appealing than ever for resorts.

 

[SlushSeason]

Its a really shortsighted move.

Snowbird only attracted tons of tourists in the past 2 years by being the "hardcore secret locals resort" in Lucas Catania and Peak Ranking's videos. Moves like this destroy their reputation. Without that reputation, why would the rich tourists go there instead of DV or Aspen? It's not like the average out of state family actually enjoys dragging their kids down the snowbird terrain.

Additionally if a recession ever actually hits the new yorker's portfolios, Snowbird will have to rely on local customers again and they'll be thoroughly fucked.

My only point is that making the park costs money, it doesn't bring in any money, so why is it a "no brainer"?

like i said to BPSS, snowbird doesn't care about locals, maybe you're just figuring this one out.

 

[eheath]

Its a really shortsighted move.

Snowbird only attracted tons of tourists in the past 2 years by being the "hardcore secret locals resort" in Lucas Catania and Peak Ranking's videos. Moves like this destroy their reputation. Without that reputation, why would the rich tourists go there instead of DV or Aspen? It's not like the average out of state family actually enjoys dragging their kids down the snowbird terrain.

Additionally if a recession ever actually hits the new yorker's portfolios, Snowbird will have to rely on local customers again and they'll be thoroughly fucked.

Snowbird has been a popular tourist destination for 40 years.

Also, what you just described is exactly what we want, I'd be extremely happy if they rich toursits went to DV or Aspen vs little cottonwood canyon. FFS theyre building a gondola up the canyon, maybe if everyone stops coming to snowbird they'll cancel that shit.

 

[SlushSeason]

Yeah, that would be great. But it will take several years, and my point is, it's bad business.

And idk the actual skier numbers, but snowbird didn't have anywhere near this level of name recognition until a few years ago. They're exploiting this current wave with $50 valet parking, $80 fast tracks, and $10 PBR, but it's bad long term business

Snowbird has been a popular tourist destination for 40 years.

Also, what you just described is exactly what we want, I'd be extremely happy if they rich toursits went to DV or Aspen vs little cottonwood canyon. FFS theyre building a gondola up the canyon, maybe if everyone stops coming to snowbird they'll cancel that shit.

 

[eheath]

And idk the actual skier numbers, but snowbird didn't have anywhere near this level of name recognition until a few years ago.

I mean you're wrong, snowbird was insanely popular when I moved to utah in 2007. My friends in elementary school went to snowbird in 1998 and had a dope shirt i was jealous of. My dad went on a trip to snowbird in the early 80s. No offense but you sound like you just moved here too.

 

[officechair]

I mean you're wrong, snowbird was insanely popular when I moved to utah in 2007. My friends in elementary school went to snowbird in 1998 and had a dope shirt i was jealous of. My dad went on a trip to snowbird in the early 80s. No offense but you sound like you just moved here too.

Can confirm Snowbird was known in the 90s. My parents took me there in 1998 on vacation.

 

[BigPurpleSkiSuit]

POWDR means bird isn't unlimited on Ikon for now at least, that makes it better than alterra

Without peace park, my guess is that it's not worth it for the resort, they'd be lucky if they even broke even last year. Im sure it was accepted by many people and even heralded as a great, but that doesn't put money in Powdr corps pocket.

Snowbird acts like they care about locals and passholders but its all bullshit dude, powdr is the same thing as vail/alterra.

 

[mikem]

POWDR means bird isn't unlimited on Ikon for now at least, that makes it better than alterra

unlimited on Ikon for now

on Ikon for now

Ikon for now

for now

now

free da bird, stop the breeding over there. no ikon on it tho like for real would fix all canyon traffic. back to the good old days.

 

[Way*Mo]

POWDR has absolutely eviscerated the Bird into a shadow of what it once was.

Having to evolve is inevitable, but POWDR hasn’t made a single positive change since they took over.

 

[GayWolf420]

NS is infested with Alterra people who created accounts to promote this shit brand and its pretty gross. Are you guys on their payroll?

 

[jblaski]

Yeah, that would be great. But it will take several years, and my point is, it's bad business.

And idk the actual skier numbers, but snowbird didn't have anywhere near this level of name recognition until a few years ago. They're exploiting this current wave with $50 valet parking, $80 fast tracks, and $10 PBR, but it's bad long term business

Let me guess, you moved to Utah 2 years ago, and now you're a hardcore LCC local and talk shit about the Icon pass holders and Californians that are blowing up your spot?

 

[SlushSeason]

Yep. I moved from California 3 years ago and even in that short time I've seen significant change at Snowbird. My problem isn't with the people that come here, it's with the business model that the ikon pass brings. When the resort only gets paid $40/visit from the pass, their whole business focus turns to selling extras to tourists, at the expense of the experience for everyone else.

Do you think fast pass lanes and valet parking are good for your resort?

Let me guess, you moved to Utah 2 years ago, and now you're a hardcore LCC local and talk shit about the Icon pass holders and Californians that are blowing up your spot?

 

[skierman_jack]

It’s basic economics. Mega passes work for the companies that own them and really nobody else. Consumers love spending 1-1.5k on a pass and being able to ski all over the world, but it’s hurts most of the resorts they serve. Now resorts have to charge more for passes and food and lodging to make up for the lack of season pass and day pass sales which drives more people to get ikon or epic passes. Here in CO, Eldora was bought by powdr and had their park rebranded as a Woodward destination which sounds awesome. But the reality is Eldora doesn’t really make a ton of money. 2 seasons ago you could get chicken fingers at Indian peaks for 7 and change. Now you’re on the hook for 15 for the same shit. Yeah inflation yeah supply chain or whatever but the reality is hardly anyone is buying a season pass to Eldora anymore let alone spending 160+ bucks to ride a low elevation resort with little marketable terrain besides Woodward (which is a rant all it’s own). Sure the bird is slammed every weekend but it’s not because they’re selling a ton of passes. And thus management will continue to cut costs where they can (Woodward spring park) and charge more for parking, food, beer, etc.

 

[SkiBum.]

POWDR has absolutely eviscerated the Bird into a shadow of what it once was.

Having to evolve is inevitable, but POWDR hasn’t made a single positive change since they took over.

Replacing haul rope and cabins on tram. New HSQ was put in. New restaurant at top. I guess those don't count?

 

[crimeenthusiast]

Replacing haul rope and cabins on tram. New HSQ was put in. New restaurant at top. I guess those don't count?

the tram is a snowbird icon (no pun intended) if they didnt keep up with maintenance theyd lose money. New restaurant is on hill food service where they make their money so yah that getting made. He’s talking about things like how snowbird will close with a fat base, or how spring time comes and theyll shutter terrain for no apparent reason (likely lack of patrol but idk).

 

[SkiBum.]

Yeah, that’s how you run a profitable business.

the tram is a snowbird icon (no pun intended) if they didnt keep up with maintenance theyd lose money. New restaurant is on hill food service where they make their money so yah that getting made. He’s talking about things like how snowbird will close with a fat base, or how spring time comes and theyll shutter terrain for no apparent reason (likely lack of patrol but idk).

 

[SkiBum.]

Solitude is doing one of those top to bottom free ride mountain park things this spring. Maybe they will Open parts of that to public.

 

[crimeenthusiast]

Yeah, that’s how you run a profitable business.

how much does it really cost to keep little cloud open for a couple more weekends? they operate the tram and have employees for summer ops anyway. They’re looking at a lil more for ski insurance (extra month) maybe 15-20 more staff (lifties, patrol, cat operator, etc), cat time, and electric costs for little cloud? They still make money off “ikon users” that want to summer ski and it brings people to their business.

 

[Way*Mo]

Replacing haul rope and cabins on tram. New HSQ was put in. New restaurant at top. I guess those don't count?

Maintaining your lift infrastructure is basic ski resort operations, obviously new haul ropes are required at the life-span of the equipment. That doesn't count as an upgrade. However, "updating" your tram cars to new boxes that hold less people, are less comfortable for skiers (the sloped front wall is terrible on a full tram) and adding an outside observation deck are all bad, yes.

Restaurant at the top, you have to be joking. The amount of money they put into that to fleece naive tourists without actually adding any experiential benefit for regular users is a farce. Also don't forget that Patrol couldn't even use their new space the first year due to faulty infrastructure and water leaks.

And they continue to mismanage terrain openings, force out long standing institutions (privately owned Tram Club) using backhanded tactics, and straight up lie about how long they will be open.

If current Snowbird management had their way they would run 9 months of Oktoberfest and be open for skiing Dec 1st to February 28th.

POWDR corp ruined one of the greatest resorts the US in the span of five years

 

[SlushSeason]

I'm not sure if they can be blamed for the reduced tram capacity. My money is on changing government regulations that won't certify the new trams for as many people.

I agree that the rider experience is worse though. The sloped walls suck and the windows are poorly placed to actually see out of

Maintaining your lift infrastructure is basic ski resort operations, obviously new haul ropes are required at the life-span of the equipment. That doesn't count as an upgrade. However, "updating" your tram cars to new boxes that hold less people, are less comfortable for skiers (the sloped front wall is terrible on a full tram) and adding an outside observation deck are all bad, yes.

 

[BigPurpleSkiSuit]

Honestly Alterra will buy them soon, maybe even this off-season and then we'll all miss POWDR corp when the nations of California descend upon us in full

 

[theabortionator]

This is what happens when you hire college kids and J1's to work at your resort. They all bail in March and stick the career-folks with the shit end of the stick.

I mean, mountains are short staffed in many roles every season these days. Wages went up finally which helps but gas stations and fast food joints pay as much or close in many of those places. Housing options can suck, the pay isn't that awesome and its not the ski bum dream that once existed.

Im all about work visas to fill rolls but the ski industry here is too reliant on the J1 because they know they'll get people.

 

[SlushSeason]

Man i hate that the standard corporate response to staffing problems is to import labor for it. Instead of paying better and improving conditions to attract American workers, they just fly in thousands of peruvians

I mean, mountains are short staffed in many roles every season these days. Wages went up finally which helps but gas stations and fast food joints pay as much or close in many of those places. Housing options can suck, the pay isn't that awesome and its not the ski bum dream that once existed.

Im all about work visas to fill rolls but the ski industry here is too reliant on the J1 because they know they'll get people.

 

[GayWolf420]

Snowbird incorporating the Woodward brand was a good idea I thought though it was purely marketing antics. I thought some of those rail setups were super fun to ski as well as the transitions they built. It was also super shitty weather when they opened it and it never really got warm enough for superb slush skiing back there. I remember a lot of flat light days and/or rain snow mixes. Plus fuck having to dig those features out for when it does actually snow in the spring in the usual LCC fashion.

In terms of crowds, locals gotta hold themselves accountable too. SLC has like 2 million people living in the valley alone thats 30 mins away from great skiing, so there's going to be local traffic ontop of people visiting from out of town. Bruce Tremper even mentioned this in his avalanche study books that were published in the mid-2000s claiming that SLC's mountains already have a dangerous crowding issue.

 

[GayWolf420]

Man i hate that the standard corporate response to staffing problems is to import labor for it. Instead of paying better and improving conditions to attract American workers, they just fly in thousands of peruvians

You're gonna get downvoted to hell for that but its the truth. Most of them do come from wealthy families and its considered their summer vacation from college or whatever they do in their home countries. And to no surprise like most rich kids, they hate to do their jobs.

 

[SlushSeason]

It's not just in seasonal resort work though. All throughout agriculture, construction, sanitation, etc. the narrative is that Americans refuse to do these jobs so we need a constant stream of immigrants for them.

Americans only refuse to do those jobs because they pay awful wages and have shitty conditions. If you look at other high income countries without high immigration (Japan, Korea, Norway, etc.) somehow those jobs still get done. Probably because they pay a competitive wage and provide modern comforts to make the jobs suck less.

You're gonna get downvoted to hell for that but its the truth. Most of them do come from wealthy families and its considered their summer vacation from college or whatever they do in their home countries. And to no surprise like most rich kids, they hate to do their jobs.