New MSP movie HUCK YEAH!
- Thread starter Pachankz
- Start date
michael_rodick
Member
why are they always trying to make everything so epic
chill MSP your shit aint that good
chill MSP your shit aint that good
little1337
Active member
Hell yeah looks like its gonna be dope
michael_rodick
Member
New here!
I rip tho
I rip tho
DesertStix
Active member
Did you not enjoy return to send’r?
14154026:Jpurd said:
Bushdid9_11
Member
Matchstick hit their moviemaking formula many years ago and stuck with it.
If you are unsatisfied with Hoji, Abma, and others hitting big jumps and bigger lines in big places, thats cool too.
I love their style.
If you are unsatisfied with Hoji, Abma, and others hitting big jumps and bigger lines in big places, thats cool too.
I love their style.
CatdickBojangles
Active member
14154004:ben.dover said:
/claim
NattyNine
Member
Come on boys. There are very few skis movies with an actual budget these days. Yeah its the same formula as in the past but it's still skiing and it's still rad as fuck.
They have made movies longer than you have been in the scene and are still travelling to places to ski lines no one has ever skied. If that doesn't spark a slight interest then go back to watching vishnu kids hitting park benches on snow days.
They have made movies longer than you have been in the scene and are still travelling to places to ski lines no one has ever skied. If that doesn't spark a slight interest then go back to watching vishnu kids hitting park benches on snow days.
Mayrandpodcast
Member
Feels weird seeing toyota, alaska airlines & a brewing company in there.
i mean good for them for getting these kind of sponsors, but also... where are the core ski brands at
i mean good for them for getting these kind of sponsors, but also... where are the core ski brands at
NattyNine
Member
14154133:BrotherhoodFilms said:
None ski brands have always been the pinacle to every large ski flick. The core brands you speak of no longer exist and those that are around are run by 4-5 people and hardly have ay budget to support their athletes.
It's a tough world these days. Gotta take what you can get.
bennwithtwons
Active member
MSP probably isn't the place to go for the latest urban conquests but if you want to watch legends of the sport smashing pow and crushing big mountain lines, they're hard to beat
Also, don't forget that some of the most epic jump sessions came in MSP movies too - think yearbook, push, seven sunny days, claim, superheroes of stoke
Also, don't forget that some of the most epic jump sessions came in MSP movies too - think yearbook, push, seven sunny days, claim, superheroes of stoke
gravel
Active member
14154131:pokerman said:
sorry, but i think this is such a weak perspective on the issue. we always expect skiers to push their limits, find new progression, challenge the norms. why shouldn't the same be expected of the filmmaking side? MSP is stale as fuck, there is zero creativity left because they just recycle the old ideas and styles. it's rewatching the same movie they made 5 years ago with new footage. i just feel like that devalues the featured skiing in the movie. there's nothing to differentiate this project from any of their other recent ones. i'm sure hoji and abma are hyped to be a part of a more sustainable, big-budget production like MSP, but at the same time, their skiing deserves to be displayed in a piece where the filmmakers similarly are challenging themselves to try new things. every year MSP features insanely talented skiers at the top of their game, but nobody gives a fuck because there is nothing that makes those movies memorable like other productions that take risks and try to innovate. MSP is the new WME. And I understand the reality of budgeting and production etc. etc. better than I let on, I'm just groveling. Shit like this should be memorable, not cardboard action sports porn.
SuspiciousFish
Active member
14154147:eheath said:
This reminds me of the quintessential Dumont Target gloves. Every corporation in America was trying to get in on the X-Games in those days...
DesertStix
Active member
Yeah I don’t get the argument that companies like Toyota and Alaska Airlines shouldn’t sponsor ski films so core companies can. How is traveling not an integral part of skiing? Unless you ski the same mountain and live within walking distance of the base, you’re going to travel in this sport.
Didn’t Toyota give TYW a Tundra TRD pro so he could get around? Hell, Markus Eder is one of the most globally marketable skiers and has a sponsorship from BMW. And an airline sounds like a clutch sponsor if you’re trying to take a team trip somewhere. all of this sounds like it’s directly supporting the sport that we’re here for and allows the riders to go hit spots all around the world.
Didn’t Toyota give TYW a Tundra TRD pro so he could get around? Hell, Markus Eder is one of the most globally marketable skiers and has a sponsorship from BMW. And an airline sounds like a clutch sponsor if you’re trying to take a team trip somewhere. all of this sounds like it’s directly supporting the sport that we’re here for and allows the riders to go hit spots all around the world.
14154147:eheath said:
14154237:DesertStix said:
Yeah hes got some deal, simon used to get a new lease every year...
I just dont think people understand that not only does toyota give them a boat load of cash, but they also get vehicles to drive around in, its a good deal for skiing. *insert core ski brand* isnt giving anyone more than like 10k and thats chump change for MSP, id rather see core ski companies support small ski filmers/crews.
Mayrandpodcast
Member
14154237:DesertStix said:
never said they shouldnt sponsor ski films, way to miscronstrue my point.
also regarding ''core'' ski brands, i guess my point was more general ski brands. meaning toyota doesnt sell ski related products. I remember the days when salomon were the main sponsor for pbp movies every year and how they were the shit at that point (for many other reasons also). Then again, i dont know, maybe what they were getting is a portion of what MSP requires.
i guess, i'm curious as to with the ski film scene dying off in the past decade how MSP is doing financially
Malczyk
Active member
14154133:BrotherhoodFilms said:
*a little insight here,You don't have to pay to play for insta-edits but these film companies got bills to pay.
The brands the riders in the movie are on are most likely paying for it but on a smaller (comparative to Toyota) scale. It's big commitment in terms of the size of marketing budgets these days, check the credits, each logo represents ~$5k to $15k depending on what kind of raw footage or activations they worked out in the contract, plus the individual athletes travel budget which they hopefully have from their sponsor. MSP's operating and equipment costs (GSS, Red Cams, travel, heli fuel, ect) are huge so besides the 1 or 2 'buddy shots' (John Ware had some of the best clips last year) if you're getting a full part in an MSP/WME/TGR film at least 1 brand you're repping is supporting it. Those negotiations/decisions are tough because it puts the rider's talents second to the business of it. Those facts and the drying up of big-dollar sponsors plus the general shift from full films from independent film companies is sad but the reality of the times. Good on MSP for producing a product that can get big non-endemic sponsors, I just hope it trickles down to the athletes and not just in the form of stoke or publicity as they are risking their lives to make it happen. Also nice to see 100% more female representation this year.
TL,DR --> it biznass
Mayrandpodcast
Member
14154262:Malczyk said:
thanks for the insight. makes a lot of sense
chef_boyardee
Member
Huck Yeah has got to be one of the worst film titles I've ever heard of
TreyMiddleton
Member
14154239:eheath said:
I agree with this one. 10k does nothing for msp but can do tons for smaller more “local” productions so I have no problem with it
Also side note, I really liked Return to Send’er
NattyNine
Member
14154177:toast said:
Being stoked on a ski film is a weak perspective?
Organizing trips to uncharted lands in Alaska. Bringing a full production crew deep into mountains ranges in remote parts of the world where it takes multiple days to access terrain. Using helicopters and huge budget cameras to capture these moments in a format that can be played on a big screen and not intended for YouTube / IG. — all things they absolutely nail to a T. Yeah its not your hipster vx1000 in a park trying to get an angle to make it look “huge” but whatever. Yeah the editing is repetitive and the songs aren’t appealing but it takes soo much planning, skill and experience to pull off the feats they do.
Not to take away from the indie brands but basically any 16 year old kid can take turns filming a handrail and put it together in a “stylish” way- that’s how NS was built. VERRRY few can pull off what MSP does. Most crews these days don’t even build jumps in the backcountry…like what....
It sounds like I am a big MSP fan but I am not. I just admire what they do and choose to support one of the last standing ski production companies still making it instead of mindlessly hating. Every single indie crew from back in the day; new intel, 604, 4bi9 right up to larger productions, Plehouse, Rage, mystic land, meatheads, Stept, Poorboyz and now level 1 all called it quits. Hating on one of the oldest production houses still highlighting our sport is super lame.
Also they are THE only production company with female presence. Stale!? Sam K’s part last year was fucking insane. I don’t understand your perspective because you actually make movies... are you not aware of how difficult it is to produce a high budget film with such small forecast windows and variable winters...
gravel
Active member
14154415:pokerman said:
you're cherry picking my words. i'm not telling you it's weak that you're stoked on a ski movie. i'm saying it's weak to be complacent with MSP repeating the same formula and making the same movie every year with new footage.
we're not even seeming to be discussing the same aspects of their movies. i have no bone to pick with MSP's logistical and physical challenges. i am aware and respect (though i'm sure i only understand the tip of the iceberg here) how delicate their work is finding weather windows, locations, helis, guides, etc... it is incredibly respectable that MSP is able to foster a production with a budget that allows these top athletes to continue to push their own boundaries and the progression of the sport, especially with respect to big mountain skiing. i have no issue with the athletes in MSP movies. i fully agree about gender diversity, which is something we've been working on in our own movies.
what i'm saying here - nothing you're mentioning is of issue to me, i agree with it all.
my problem is that i think it is bullshit that MSP is so successful at doing this incredibly complicated, variable, and nuanced work but yet they don't challenge themselves creatively. fuck the cineflex, epic adventure, rich nomadic aesthetic they've stuck with for the last half decade. they have the best cameras, gear, and filmers in the world for this kind of work and it's being laundered into this "adventure bullshit" trope to sell to rich middle aged white people who are pissed about being stuck in their corporate career.
stop putting words in my mouth, i'm not saying i want to see MSP start taking a vx1000 out to central alaska next year to film on the same level as a 16 year old on a handrail (literally why is this part of your argument, i never said anything like this). i would be more than happy to see MSP continue to do exactly what they're doing right now as far as planning, logistics, filming, and skiing. but as soon as that shit is on a hard drive, fire the stale fucking editor turning this incredible content into more epic bullshit. just tell a genuine story in the editing room.
the skiing isn't stale, it's some of the best. the filming is great. the editing is dogshit.
gravel
Active member
i guess to sum it up, to me, art is about taking risks and synthesizing new ideas.
MSP athletes and trip planners are clearly creative and successful there. but whoever is building the story in the editing room is stuck in the same troph they've been in for years.
at the end of the day, josh is right. it's business. you sacrifice creative license and autonomy when you've got to please the corporate interests of brands like toyota.
MSP athletes and trip planners are clearly creative and successful there. but whoever is building the story in the editing room is stuck in the same troph they've been in for years.
at the end of the day, josh is right. it's business. you sacrifice creative license and autonomy when you've got to please the corporate interests of brands like toyota.
MikeWeinerONE
Member
The corporate interests of Toyota spend a lot of money so that people from Kentucky, Florida, etc are stoked to ski and spend money on ski equipment and ski vacations which funds the sport for the NS crowd and skiers living in ski towns.
What do you think the most interesting shots are now days? You don’t see any interesting shots in these movies? Which editing techniques would you like to see more of?
Do you believe a company like MSP should try to appeal to 15-24 YO males with limited budget to spend money? Or do you prefer they cater to rich people who fund our sport in a larger scale and funnel money to bartenders, servers, resorts, or even small mountains and events at these places.
Someone has to stoke these people out to continue to come out to places like UT/CO/Tahoe and drop an average of 10K a week for a family of 4. Without these people being stoked on skiing, our culture and our resorts we wouldn’t exist.
I also believe Scott Gaffney is a true professional and knows or is capable of learning any editing technique to go alongside his creative mind if that was what attracted these sponsors.
What do you think the most interesting shots are now days? You don’t see any interesting shots in these movies? Which editing techniques would you like to see more of?
Do you believe a company like MSP should try to appeal to 15-24 YO males with limited budget to spend money? Or do you prefer they cater to rich people who fund our sport in a larger scale and funnel money to bartenders, servers, resorts, or even small mountains and events at these places.
Someone has to stoke these people out to continue to come out to places like UT/CO/Tahoe and drop an average of 10K a week for a family of 4. Without these people being stoked on skiing, our culture and our resorts we wouldn’t exist.
I also believe Scott Gaffney is a true professional and knows or is capable of learning any editing technique to go alongside his creative mind if that was what attracted these sponsors.
14154475:toast said:
14154492:MikeWeinerONE said:
You're crazy if you think MSP and Toyota are driving the economy of skiing, every resort/state spends millions on adverting. MSP could stop making movies and we'd probably still see a rise in skier days.
I think the point Gavin is making is that he's over seeing the same movie every year, which for the most part is true, same with TGR IMO But, this is how every ski movie company has done it ever, they find a formula and stick with it. Gavin wants to see these people (MSP, TGR, etc) do something different, but thats a tough ask with so many dollars on the line and only so many things you can do on skis.
a_burger
Active member
tbh I'd rather see a huge budget like that being used to create a project like Valhalla, or even to go back in time a bit a story like Blizzard of Ahhhs vs the format MSP has chosen to reside with for most of there movies. As pointed out above movies are important for motivating middle-upper class suburban families to spend thousands of dollars in the industry every year, but I kind of question the effectiveness of your standard ski porn format of doing that as even before I got specifically into park skiing none of the Warren Miller/TGR/MSP type movies really had an impact on my motivation to ski.
More importantly though what do these movies do for people outside the middle/upper class demographic? People who haven't skied before? You can argue that skiporn is important to inspire nonskiers with whats possible and blow there brains out with action packed editing, but today someone who isn't active can see that kind of stuff on their facebook feed. They might go to a premiere for the novelty of it but once they realize how far removed from their likely experience it is they'll probably lose interest. For a feature length movie to help grow the sport it needs more depth then skiing + music. It needs some kind of thread or theme that you can grasp onto even if you don't quite understand what went into the skiing.
It's not like MSP doesn't get this either, there was a real attempt at experimenting with Ruin and Rose, bummed that they seem to have moved away from that because that specific experiment failed, but there's plenty of examples of it working. Have you ever heard an old person cite a specific Warren Miller movie (as opposed to the idea of Warren Miller movies or premieres in general) from the 60's-70's as having an impact on them? I haven't but I've seen a lot of people saying how Moebius Flip and Ski the Outer Limits changed how they thought about skiing.
tl;dr feature length ski porn is dead. It doesn't serve a purpose anymore, online content like instagram, edits and mini movies have taken it's place. Props to MSP for sticking it out with so many other companies calling it but I won't be spending money on what to me just looks like a re-hash of CLAIM. Take that dank ass footage this movie probably has and do something cooler with it
**This post was edited on Jul 2nd 2020 at 5:59:08pm
**This post was edited on Jul 2nd 2020 at 5:59:57pm
More importantly though what do these movies do for people outside the middle/upper class demographic? People who haven't skied before? You can argue that skiporn is important to inspire nonskiers with whats possible and blow there brains out with action packed editing, but today someone who isn't active can see that kind of stuff on their facebook feed. They might go to a premiere for the novelty of it but once they realize how far removed from their likely experience it is they'll probably lose interest. For a feature length movie to help grow the sport it needs more depth then skiing + music. It needs some kind of thread or theme that you can grasp onto even if you don't quite understand what went into the skiing.
It's not like MSP doesn't get this either, there was a real attempt at experimenting with Ruin and Rose, bummed that they seem to have moved away from that because that specific experiment failed, but there's plenty of examples of it working. Have you ever heard an old person cite a specific Warren Miller movie (as opposed to the idea of Warren Miller movies or premieres in general) from the 60's-70's as having an impact on them? I haven't but I've seen a lot of people saying how Moebius Flip and Ski the Outer Limits changed how they thought about skiing.
tl;dr feature length ski porn is dead. It doesn't serve a purpose anymore, online content like instagram, edits and mini movies have taken it's place. Props to MSP for sticking it out with so many other companies calling it but I won't be spending money on what to me just looks like a re-hash of CLAIM. Take that dank ass footage this movie probably has and do something cooler with it
**This post was edited on Jul 2nd 2020 at 5:59:08pm
**This post was edited on Jul 2nd 2020 at 5:59:57pm
gravel
Active member
14154492:MikeWeinerONE said:
i do think i'm not giving gaffney enough credit here, generally i'm just being the saltiest asshole in the thread, probably taking it way more seriously than i should.
you're wrong about the last part - sponsors aren't attracted by creativity. sponsors are attracted by marketability. and i don't mean to shame gaffney for finding and sticking with a marketable formula. i'm at a completely different point in my life in making movies where i'm not supporting a family or paying a mortgage etc., so obviously my approach to filmmaking is way more creativity/experimentally/innovatively pointed than business-focused. MSP is not a young production company at this point anymore so i get that they have to produce content that keeps the business running. and i'm not saying he couldn't or doesn't have the skills to switch styles and edit at a different pace and style. but that's not the reality and i don't expect MSP is going to be experimenting with styles anytime soon.
i don't think MSP doesn't have interesting shots, i have no immediate complaints about the the filming itself unless it's a "guy in the sky" shot like the one of bobby's dub flat in the trailer. MSP filmers are experts at what they do, especially backcountry/big mountain filmmaking. plenty of MSP footage is far more interesting than the footage that i or andrew can get with strictly on our limited budget.
i want to see literally any editing technique other than the action adventure drama epic shit. i'm sick of hearing voiceovers "oh my god" and "dropping in 3 2 1", epic drum beats to cut on, cineflex megamo a split second instead of respecting the entire context of a trick or a line. i feel like the editing always caters towards this facade of some lifestyle of a nomadic action sports athlete, cherry-picking choice moments to glorify the sport and action beyond what it really is. it just feels fake to me. i think that's closely straddling the boundary where filmmaking gets in the way of appreciating the skiing itself. in my opinion in making ski movies/edits/whatever - the skiing is paramount, the filmmaking should support that without eclipsing it.
i mean, you're really not wrong here. someone DOES have to stoke out the vacation skiers who actually "put money into this sport" - although that's a completely different discussion, because we all are aware that the kind of money those people spend is barely touching us, so much of it goes right to corporate interests. like, maybe you could argue about local restaurants and bars, etc. but 9k out of that 10k that a 4 person family spends is going to Vail/Alterra/Real Estate Corporations/etc... maybe it pays an NSer's wages somewhere along the line, but it's not going back into supporting our community. even though, based on the content MSP produces, they're way closer aligned to our community's content than the corporate side. so no, i think our culture already exists outside of the realm of the money vacation skiers infuse into the greater sport of skiing.
and i'm not saying i just want MSP to just start manicuring their content to fit the interests of 15-24YO males like me. i want to see MSP take a fucking risk again. make a provocative segment. stop catering content to just massage the imaginary adventure egos of backcountry berts.
again, i'm just an opinionated asshole. i don't understand all the perspectives at play here and i'm definitely wrong about plenty of my opinions, but i still feel like voicing my dissatisfaction with MSP because i grew into skiing watching movies like Attack of La Nina, In Deep, etc... and i feel like the magic is lost to me now.
Alvaro
Member
I think their approach to films is great, editing doesn`t get too much in the way of the skiing and you still get a better look at the personalities and experiences of the skiers than in most of the other videos out there. Also you can tell abma, hoji and the old guys are just having fun in this trips in a way thats totally relatable.
hi_vis360
Active member
14154492:MikeWeinerONE said:
this is one of the wackest things I have ever read on this website. It's almost as bad as your defense of the fagans. 15 - 24 YO kids have and always will be the heart of this community, not tourists from kentucky. Ski resorts catering to rich tourists is what is making skiing less affordable for the average person. Most ski bums I know or have met work trades all summer to pay for their skiing, not bartending during the winter. Most ski bums can't afford the rent in mountain towns anyway and that is because of the increasingly wealthy skier demographic.
Basically you are arguing in favor of trickle-down economics, which has been proven time and time again to not work. You are a corporate bootlicker and a racist apologist.
BigPurpleSkiSuit
Active member
I'll agree with this, would have been much better if they just named it Fuck Yeah, and didn't blur or bleep anything out. It still gets me in Free Solo where Alex clearly says FUCK YEAH!! after sending the boulder problem with no rope and they changed it to a very canadian sounding, "OH YAH!"
14154345:chef_boyardee said:
MikeWeinerONE
Member
MSP is not making ski movies for ski bums. But for corporate sponsors. Move on.
You don’t know me and your calling me a racist apologist? Lol. I was defending kids being kids like the old MsP movies you speak of where they’re smoking blunts. I’m sure if that happened now we would have a whole other mob of people talking shit about that. Keep judging people you don’t know, it’s a great trait.
You don’t know me and your calling me a racist apologist? Lol. I was defending kids being kids like the old MsP movies you speak of where they’re smoking blunts. I’m sure if that happened now we would have a whole other mob of people talking shit about that. Keep judging people you don’t know, it’s a great trait.
14154868:pinkcamo1000 said:
14154026:Jpurd said:
Why would you expect big mountain skiing NOT to get an audience in 2020?
You are correct about one thing, it is not really geared towards NS. It is geared towards people who ski big mountain. NS has plenty of people who are into this kind of skiing. I'm curious as to where you live and what kind of terrain you ski. I'm not criticizing park skiing, but if you don't see why films which don't focus on park and urban are still popular you are missing out on what a huge percentage of serious skiers actually likes.
If you are implying that MSP has had the same formula for a long time, well I would certainly agree. There is a good reason for that. Both MSP and TGR have formulas that work, and work well.
If you are a park skier the big mountain stuff might look repetitive. I get that. You should also understand that to many who focus on steep terrain the park stuff looks repetitive.
SuspiciousFish
Active member
14154131:pokerman said:
Small correction in bold for a lot of the users here lol
Yeah its kind of a set formula but it harks back to when ski movies were really about getting everyone together for the premier and getting so stoked on the upcoming season.
hi_vis360
Active member
14155481:MikeWeinerONE said:
smoking blunts = personal choice, doesn't harm anyone but yourself.
saying racist slurs = causes other people harm, makes our sport less inclusive
Also I don't need to know you to know you're a racist apologist, you defended kids who say racist slurs, pretty sure that fits the definition. Also this is the internet my dude nobody on here knows each other, that's kinda the point
dolanslebensraum
Active member
14153999:ben.dover said:
I agree. This chick flick looked like something i wouldnt even watch on vimeo for free, let alone something i would pay money for.
are they releasing it for free? Because if they are actually going to charge people for this detritus thats hilarious.
Jpurd
Active member
14155639:dan4060 said:
Grew up on the east coast, now living in Colorado, so if your point is that I don't have the same appreciation for backcountry skiing that others might, sure that's definitely true.
I just don't think they are that creative - I think a lot of it looks really repetative - but to be clear, I felt this way about the last PBP films and even some level 1 films (Less, Partly Cloudy) and even some of the Stept Movies. The difference with Stept/Level 1 is that I have a greater appreciation for the gnarly shit they were doing on the streets vs the massive mtn lines that most skiers cannot relate to.
I also think watching park/street is much more relatable to the majority of skiers and not just on NS. How many people that ski at your average resort have ever skiied anything remotely close to an AK line or chest deep pow in BC. I can't afford to do this, and I'm sure the average family of skiers, even the ones with money, aren't ripping lines in these areas on the reg. If anything, some of the boring shit in WME films are more relatable to the "average" skier who is tearing up blue/black groomers and skiing 10-20 days a year.
dolanslebensraum
Active member
14154868:pinkcamo1000 said:
Youre a tool. If you want everybody to collectively live the most wealthy lives possible you need to maximize efficiency. And nothing will ever maximize efficiency as well as the free market.
Call it trickle down or whatever you want. If youre against the free market you either have an 80 iq or youre full of shit.