Live Q&A with Scott Andrus, aka iggyskier, Founder of ON3P - Thursday 11/20 @ 6pm EST
- Thread starter ON3P
- Start date
13225503:Immas said:
I am assuming you are talking about how a 181cm ON3P is longer than a 181cm from most other brands. I view it as making our skis correctly. When I started designing skis, it always blew my mind when I would see a 185cm ski come in around 181cm long. It is actually one of the catalyst that started ON3P, as I got a pair of skis out of a small builder out of Canada that is now defunked, and they were supposed to be 184cm and were shorter than my 179cm Seth Pistols. I just wanted the actual ski length to match the listed ski length.
Most companies measure pre-pressing flat base length, so a 185cm ski will have a flat base that is 185cm long. Add tip shape and a full twin and suddenly that ski is 181cm long. We measure post-pressing tip to tail length, so that a 189cm long flat base will end up with a ski that is 185cm long. Just a different approach.
If you are referring to our skis not being available in shorter sizes until recently, that was just a recognition of our market and production realities. Now we have 4 different models available in under 170cm in length, so we do have some shorter options available. We just didn't have the sales early on to justify shorter skis, and short skis continue to be our lowest selling models.
13225778:-emile- said:
I won't say too much. Almost all of it was done through email with their lawyers. We did get a phone call the morning we dropped the news from someone at Scott, who thought we were making it up and was really heated. When we forwarded all the info to them, and they knew it was real, they quickly realized they shouldn't be talking with us.
13225854:ERICA.MN said:
Cash flow and the time it takes to build your own product. Skiing is seasonal, so you take in 75% of your revenue in a 4-5 month period. If things didn't go great in those 4-5 months, you are going to have a tough year. We are also competing with brands who don't build their own product, making them essentially marking companies who design, market, and sell skis. We build all of our own product, so the time requirement just to get the product buit is huge. Then you have to balance in all the aspects of running the business, marketing the production (on very little budget, as most of our budget goes towards running our factory), talking to retailers, and so on. 90% of the time, we are actively building skis, so it can be hard to out market and out sell brands who are marketing and selling a product 100% of the time.
13228131:Immas said:
To me, it is the feel of the ski. Our skis are damp but responsive, and I've never felt anytime similar (except a Kingswood). At speed, you don't feel every little bump like you do with poplar or aspen, but when you load the ski up, they have a really nice, smooth responsive feel and have a lot of energy. Bamboo has definitely ruined other core materials for me.
13229789:Pudge said:
I think we will keep selling it as long as people are interested. They are very time consuming, and are still all cut by hand by our Production Manager Trevor Leaf. They aren't very scalable currently, so I don't see doing more than 20-25 per year.
13225106:NinetyFour said:
I only really think about skis right now, so I will have to limit it to that...
It's tough to say, as I think at least in the foreseeable future, it will be tough to top rocker and taper/reverse sidecut in ski development. Obviously we've tried to go out on our own here with RES, for which the tech side I think still confuses people, as it never really gets any hype even though when you know how it works compared to a traditional sidecut ski, it is pretty crazy. Our focus right now is really on refinement and better build quality and finishing. The tech stuff will come, but I think a lot of companies try to focus on it too much with bullshit that is recycled or just doesn't actually contribute to the ski itself, instead of just building the skis better. We really don't buy into a lot of "tech" we see, which is why we we just let the skis speak for themselves. We have lots of ideas on where things could go, but until you try it and ski it, it is hard to tell what will happen.
I know we will continue to focus on ways to improve the materials we use and the finish of the skis we put out. Every year we make big steps forward in terms of finish quality and QC, so we will continue to push for better and better built skis. One area that I am interest in is finding more environmentally friendly, lighter weight plastics that provide similar durability characteristics. This will affect ski stiffness and dampness as well, so you will have to compensate for that, but it would help make a ski lighter while maintaining good durability. We use bamboo sidewalls on prototypes sometimes, but I don't personally buy a lot of the wood sidewalls you see out there. Durability is our number one priority, before weight, so until we feel a lighter weight material matches UHMW for sidewall and tipspacer durability, we will continue using it. We are also starting to get more custom composites produced to our specs, and are finally at the size where we can order custom material at volume, so we will continue to test all sorts of new materials going forward.
Outside of skis, I really can't say. I am sure we are going to see some big advances in outerwear tech, google tech, boot tech, binding tech. Definitely an exciting time to be a skier.
NinetyFour
Active member
13230026:iggyskier said:
Maybe he was referring to employees... and was fishing for his own name to be pulled up?
As far as mentioning Igneous goes, how often do you buy or demo skis from other manufacturers?
13224843:cydwhit said:
Sure, but they are hard to come by. There is a ton of time and man hours that goes into them, so because we are focused on building skis, it is hard to have time for much else. The Beartooth Summer Session is really Kip Kirol's brainchild, and it took a lot of time and effort to really turn it into a sustainable and unique event, though I think we are finally there after the fourth year. If an event similar to that comes up, it will definitely garner some interest on our end, but nothing is on the radar at the moment.
13227227:B.Gillis said:
Our big focus right now is expanding our retail program. It is tough, as there as so many new brands (I would say I hear of at least 2-4 new brands per month) and there have been a lot of indies who made pretty terrible skis early on, so lots of shops still are very wary of indies. We have a ton of room to grow on the retail front, both domestically and internationally, so you will see us continue to try to find the right retailers to work with around the world. As for direction, we really don't want to change a thing. I think we've done a good job staying true to who we are and what we are about, so now we are just trying to continue down that path and keep doing what we want, just on a larger scale. It can be tough to stick to those ideals, especially as things expand, but our focus is to keep building skis the right way and that won't change going forward.
13227790:broto said:
The biggest thing is that the skis are so hands on that every step of the process involves QC, so everyone has a good eye for when something is off. So at every step in the process, stuff is being recorded and pulled if anything seems wrong. This occurs in pretty much every stage - edge prep, sandblasting, base prep, shaping cores, profiling cores, core layup, ski layup. At every step of the process, if the part is pushed down the line, it has cleared QC for that station. Then in finishing, again, it is very hands on and the skis are checked at each step. Once flattening starts, the skis are checked with a true bar at each machine to ensure they are flat, and since we are doing all the base finishing by hand and it isn't a machine doing the flattening and structure, it is easy to tell when a ski is correctly flattened and structured vs when it is not. It blows my mind how bad the base finishing is on many of the skis I see in shops these days. Once the skis are through the machines, they go to hand finishing, and again, they are processed by a human at each station, and cleared by stations. So the skis are scraped and the bases are checked for scratches and flatness with a true bar. Then we check all the meets with a razor blade to ensure the bonding is correct. After the topsheet protector is pulled, the skis are weights to ensure they fall within the correct specs for the skis.
We have gotten a lot better about recording all the skis' data now too. We know who/when prepped the base, who/when laid up the cores, who/when pressed the ski, what the press temp was, what the ambient air temp was, any other notes, and so on. So it has allowed us to problem solve more efficiently as we know exactly where and when a problem arose.
We've also seen a huge jump in our QC by bringing more processes in house - sandblasting being the thing that saw the biggest improvement when we brought it in house about 2 years ago. Also, adding the CNC has resulting in a huge decrease in material waste and better QC on all of our cores.
The other thing to note is that QC & finish quality are one thing, but durability is also about the materials and that starts before a ski even starts down the building process. We are using UHMW on all of our sidewalls, which is far more durable than wood or ABS, a 1.8mm thick 4001 durasurf base and 2.5mm x 2.5mm thick edge (the thickest we can get, though we've explored getting thicker, just don't have the volume to order the material needed for them yet), and a 100% bamboo core. That creates a really solid ski before you even start the build process.
DrZoidberg
Active member
You guys probably have a million tools and stuff like that, so what, if any, other things have you made besides skis and presses? Not necessarily to sell, just for fun works too.
13228940:SKI.ING said:
My senior year was a bit weird. I was trying to do ON3P on the side, while being a normal college senior (aka party) and finish a senior thesis that turned out to be over 100 pages when it was done. So I graduated basically still on that pre-med path, but I just couldn't really think about anything but building skis. I spent the next two months building skis, along with some friends (Rowen, Josh, Caylor, David), and then moved to Portland. I looked around for other jobs pretty halfheartedly, and just sort of realized if I didn't at least try to make ON3P into a reality, I would always wonder what would have happened. So I started to get a business plan together and things went from there. It wasn't hard to reconcile because it was literally all I could think about at the time (and remained true to this day). That said, if I ever did anything else, I would at least consider medicine again. I still find it fascinating and think I would really enjoyed the work.
13228940:SKI.ING said:
My parents are ON3P's biggest supporters, so it wasn't hard, because it had been building for so long that it seemed sort of inevitable by the time things got going. They want me to do what makes me happy, so they are incredibly supportive. Without their support, none of this would have happened. My friends had a more mixed reaction, generally along the lines of people thinking I was crazy and that it was just sort of a weird hobby I had, but here we are...
13230112:Sklar said:
Yeah...my mom is gonna read this, so not a lot I can really post. Scariest moment was probably almost getting hit head on by a car running from the cops the wrong way on I-5 my first week in Tacoma. It crossed in front of us and we missed them by like 15-20 feet, and both of us were cruising. I don't think I would be here had we collided. That was my first introduction to Tacoma, which back in 2004 was still a bit sporting. We used to hear occasional gun shots from our dorm room (A&L). It has gotten quite a bit nicer in the past decade (to be honest, even between 2004 & 2008 when I graduated). Sam Caylor also almost got run over one time by some guy going about 60 MPH down a residential street while he was loading up his car with skis. He literally jumped out of the way. Or going to a nicer restaurant in downtown Tacoma after my graduation with my parents, grandma, and brother & sister and noticing bullet holes in the window when we walked in. Tacoma is a bit of a strange place..
13224843:cydwhit said:
I suspect it is really about trying to make a personal connection with a potential customer, even though many are part of giant corporations with shareholders and publically traded shares. The change in social media has also made it much easier to interact one on one, so that is hard to do that while maintaining a super corporate, polished look. It is nice to connect with someone on a personal level, so I think the attempt to try and make many of these larger brands seem less corporate is probably a good move for them. I think often times it comes off a bit awkward, but I understand why they are doing it. For us, there are 9 of us and we are selling to people just like us, building a product that is completely ours, and don't have to answer to shareholders or worry about stock price, so we get to just do our own thing and for the most part, I think people have a good idea what we are all about.
13230162:DrZoidberg said:
Honestly, mostly what we have build is the factory itself and our own equipment. Our current factory was completely blank when we started, so all the building was done ourselves so that has taken a long time. We build one off things here and there, but nothing is really jumping to mind. Now that we have our own CNC in house, I suspect that we will have the chance to build a lot of things we didn't have the opportunity to before. I am sure some ON3P skateboards and maybe a surfboard happen sometime in the next few years.
13230046:NinetyFour said:
Buy? Never. Every once in awhile we will get skis from other brands in here and cut them up so we can feel better about our skis
.Demo? When we go to industry demos, we usually have a list of 10-15 skis from other brands that we send people out to test just to have an idea of what else is out there. But to be honest, there are SO many other brands now and SO many skis out there, you can really only worry about what you are doing. With that in mind, we tend to just focus on our brand and making sure we are doing what we can to make our skis better, rather than worrying about what everyone else is doing.
13230261:-emile- said:
We would like to keep the brand relatively small. We really value the personal interaction we get to have within the community and I don't see that ever changing. We also have no desire to branch outside of freeride skis, so you won't ever see us put out carving skis or stuff designed for recreational skiers. You see a lot of brands branch out into outerwear, packs, etc. Right now, we want to just focus on what we do well, which is build skis. A small softgoods line will get going soon, but besides that, we just want to build the best skis and let everyone else worry about the rest. Production wise, we want to ramp up our volume considerably the next 3-5 years, but ever at that size would we remain on the small end compared to many other brands.
13230152:Pudge said:
Probably the hardest question I've been asked tonight. We're not looking to be bought. The circumstances in which we would consider it? I can't even think of a realistic scenario where this would happen.
The bottom line is Amer and other corporations are about turning a profit for shareholders, and it is a lot cheaper to do that in a factory they already use. I also don't see us getting big enough that they would ever be interested, as K2 Sports was with Line. Line was really on the cusp of the freeskiing world blowing up and was the only small freeskiing brand around. We are in a market now full of small brands, so I just don't see it as a situation we have to concern ourselves with.
I know I would never sell the brand if it meant taking our production elsewhere, because then we are just another marketing company designing skis and having someone do all the work for us, and building our own product is a huge part of our identity. I don't see the point in doing it if we can't say these skis we sell are actually our own.
steevner
Active member
What's the work-life balance for yourself and the rest of the ON3P crew like? Do you still find time to ski much during the winter?
Also, what would you say the balance of art vs science that goes into designing your skis?
Just read through all the replies and am loving the info
Also, what would you say the balance of art vs science that goes into designing your skis?
Just read through all the replies and am loving the info
13228993:broto said:
First off, I am probably atypical. I founded/run a brand, where the vast majority of people in snowsports are working it just like any job, so my hours are not normal (I easily work 3000+ hours/year), but I like what I do, so it is what it is. I ski far less than most, but that will improve over time. When I do ski, I get to be extremely picky. I don't ski weekends, and can pick my days so I can ski only when it is snowing. I am content with my workload, schedule, and pay because I love what I do. Would it be nice to make more money, have an easier schedule, and less of a workload? Sure, that applies to anyone, including everyone here. As we grow and make this thing work, the rest of the things will fall into place, and I would much rather do what I love than worry about money or workload first. That isn't true for everyone, but I am fortunate I get to make that choice.
I should say, I feel like a lot of people get into the ski industry because they want to work for some cool company or think it will all be drinking beer, skiing powder, and hanging out (which is, of course, part of it, but far from all of it). There are useless people who definitely get into skiing thinking that way. For everyone else trying to make it a career, though, it is a job just like any other. You have good days, bad days, and the same day-in-and-day-out grind of any other job. There are certainly perks compared to other industries, but if you expect to get a job in skiing and then just hang out and ski the rest of your life, you're in for a surprise.
If you find something you are actually passionate doing in the industry, do it. But make sure you are passionate about your job, not just the perks, because if you don't like your job, the perks won't be enough to make it worth your while.
13228630:byubound said:
It would be nice if the ski industry was a bit more about merit and less about who's ass you kiss or whose friend you are, but it is what it is. Honestly, it is sort of nice being up in Oregon, as we are sort of on our own little island up here and don't have to deal with a bunch of the bullshit and scene that comes with being in Utah or Colorado. We just get to cruising along and do our own thing, which is refreshing in an industry that sometimes can have a bit of an attitude.
Also, I'm being a bit of a class warrior here as well, but I wish there was more transparency with where skis are made. I can't even tell you how many times I read stuff from brands based in the USA where they are insinuate that they either building their own skis, or that they are built in America, when neither are true. We try to stay out of the fry, as you can only control your own brand, but it can be very frustrating to see stuff that you know is disingenuous. It might not matter to most people, but the job that we do at ON3P, or the guys at Moment, or the guys at Praxis, etc, is very very different from a lot of the brands we compete with who don't build their own products, and I think most people how no idea how much more work it actually is.
As for our skis, there are always improvements to be made. With sandwich construction skis, topsheet chipping will always be number one. We've been working on improving our sidewall finish a bunch this year, and have something we are really happy with. We will also always be looking at improving edge durability in park skis, and we've even looked into getting even thicker edges built for us. The order requirements are pretty big, though, so we are probably 2-3 years away from even having the volume to be able to go that route, if we want to deal with the added weight and even thicker bases. Anyway, basically name any aspect of the ski, and we are focused on what we can do to make it better. A lot of stuff is really dialed, but you can always be better.
13229799:-Robert said:
Hiring is difficult, as we work long hours, often doing the same task over and over and over, for low pay in what is often a pretty stressful environment. Some people just can't handle the work. Plus, anytime you build a product as complicated as skis, there are a ton of things that can go wrong, so you need to have the patience and fortitude to problem solve sometimes extremely frustrating and expensive issues. It takes a certain type of person who can do this job, enjoy it, and be good at it. At this point, 5 of the last 7 people we hired were all former interns, and each interned for at least 3 months, while some as long as 12 months, before they were brought on full time. We run a small shop here, so the personality fit is really important. It takes awhile to learn how to build skis at the quality we need, too, so we can't just hire someone and have them up to speed right away. Internships have been a great way to weed out who is the right fit for the job and has the talent and eye to do such detailed production work over and over, and those who don't.
At this time, we are not looking to expand our team. We are actually trying to bring it down a bit, so we can better focus resources on the athletes who are really out there helping to drive the brand. If you were to tell me we would have such a sick team from top to bottom even 2-3 years ago, I never would have believed you. This is a really solid crew, and I think you are going to continue to see our team turning a lot of heads, especially as we start to produce our own content more and more.
13230558:steevner said:
We work a lot, but life is getting a bit more balanced. It has gotten better every year, though it usually goes to shit the month before SIA.
We would all like to ski more, but we get to ski on the good days so that helps offset skiing not as often as we would like.
Skibowl has great night skiing, too, so you can work until 3 and ski at night, which is a nice perk as the terrain is pretty sick.
13230558:steevner said:
They are completely separate. The ski development us faceless. It is about how the skis function, not how they look, so there isn't any art that goes into a ski's development.
Once the ski is develop, our Creative Director Trevor Woods brings the ski to life and is the best there is. He does an amazing job creating a brand around a ski, and I don't know how he does what he does, but I think he puts out the best graphics in the industry.
What people most likely miss is how much story there is for each ski graphic. It might be hard to get it just by looking at it, but when all the pieces come together, it is cool to see that there is a story and deep thought process behind every decision. It is about more than just what the graphic looks like, which I think is why I enjoy the graphics so much.
13227227:B.Gillis said:
I thought a lot about how to answer this. Completely honest answer....I think trying to start a ski company right now is a bit crazy, and here's why - I learn of a new ski company every week, and most offer nothing unique and nothing to differentiate themselves in an already diluted market. With so many new brands, if you don't offer something different, than you are just wasting your time.
So if you want to bring your homebuilding outside the garage, absolutely do it. It is incredibly rewarding to sell skis to people who enjoy them. Just make sure 1) you 100% want to pursue this as a career and 2) you will be different. If what you offer is already on the market, and you don't have a huge advertising budget to get your foot in the door, it is going to be really hard to make a name for yourself and create a sustainable business.
StangelDangle
Member
I'm sitting next to a kid named charlie murphy... never name your cat charlie murphy!!!
jackdonovan
Active member
ON3P skiblades?