Liberals vs Conservatives
- Thread starter yeahmon
- Start date
onenerdykid
Active member
13448859:yeahmon said:
And if that government serves to better your life and those around you? Taxes are at least double in Europe, but guess what- stuff actually gets done and their system and citizens actually benefit from it every day. Sure there are issues/problems, as every government will have. But you definitely see the benefits of it in the people, the quality of life, their job satisfaction, the more free time they have...
If it goes to the government and the government actually does some good with it, shouldn't that be the goal?
onenerdykid
Active member
13448867:yeahmon said:
I gave you at least 4 or 5 actual primary sources, but be patient- they aren't exactly easy reading as this is not an easy subject. This is also something you will not master in one night on the internet. But I definitely give you props for wanting to learn about it and further your own understanding of the subject.
Funkadelic
Active member
13448876:yeahmon said:
You're a 16 year old working at a ski shop? I'm sure you get all of that money back when you file for taxes due to the amount you make annually.
louie.mirags
Active member
13448844:yeahmon said:
dude I feel dumb when I look back at my post on here from when I was 16 (almost 10 years ago, my last username was permabanned). I was conservative as fuck. In fact, my username was republican_enemy.. Either way I used to say the most ignorant shit ever. I just regurgitated whatever hateful information I thought republicans stood for. I was pro-life and against gay marriage for no real reasons besides that's what I thought was right.. I came a longggggggggg way since then. It wasn't until after the navy and finding podcast that I opened my mind to new ideas..
In other words, it is great that you're discussing these topics civilly. At that age I would jump right to calling people "faggots" for disagreeing with me. So good on ya for asking for sources so you could do more research. Remember to always keep an open mind and consider every angle of a debate before you chime in. That is something that took years for me to learn...
Funkadelic
Active member
13448909:*CM* said:
OK but he was talking about his income. And sales tax is low and is nonexistent in some states. Not to mention it's a conservative ideology to eliminate income tax and jack up sales tax.
flurry*
Member
Today's democrats are getting to be ridiculous. We are living in a socialist country, which is bullshit. Socialism doesn't work and it goes completely against the way the county was founded. Many immigrants today came to the U.S. to escape socialism, and President Piece of Shit is trying to cram it back into them. Socialism will end small business, putting millions out of work. People will lose individual rights to make everyone more equal. Taxes will increase even more. The list goes on. Today's Democratic Party is basically now a socialist party. They are ruining our nation by allowing everyone to "not have their feelings hurt", and in that people are losing individual rights.
onenerdykid
Active member
13448936:yeahmon said:
That is in no way a "right". It is a want.
S.J.W
Active member
13448936:yeahmon said:
Where in any written government document does it say that you have a right to no tax?
I think you fail to see how taxes actually work. They help pay for government services, roads, etc, etc. And although it's not perfect, it's the best system we have. If you want to keep every dollar you earn, then stop using anything government funded, owned or related to the government in any way.
Huck_Norris
Active member
13448916:*CM* said:
Ahahahahaha the Fox is strong with this one.
So basically all we need to do is stop paying taxes because that's socialism, and then we can get back to what this country was founded on. Got it. Also a stable middle class will collapse small businesses. Duly noted. Also you definitely lose rights to make everyone equal. Totally.
Honestly you should just stroll right up to President Piece of Shit and bitch slap that Kenyan Muslim out of office, you've got this shit covered from every angle, bro.
safety.third
Member
13448859:yeahmon said:
you will get all of it back on your tax return. you dont make enough working part time with minimum wage in high school to actually pay taxes
yeahmon
Member
13448947:ndye said:
There are private charities, so you are telling me that the government is the only one who could possibly help the poor, disabled, and hungry. I understand there should be some taxes i was mispoken in my last post but i dont want to give 90% of my income to the government as Bernie Sanders proposes.
Barefootin_Fiend
Active member
13448864:Granite_State said:
please expand on this....how do you feel that corporations are largely unregulated?
Funkadelic
Active member
13448936:yeahmon said:
OK let's let everyone keep all of their income earned from their job.
I hope you like living in a world where our roads have become too deteriorated to drive on because the government has no money to fix them. Crime runs rampant because the government has no money to fund a police force. Your house burns down because the government has no money to fund a fire department. Every citizen is a moron with the exception of the wealthy because the government doesn't provide a school system.
I could go on and on. Taxes are a necessary evil. Do you want to privitize all of those services and be a hardcore libertarian? Fine but you still have to pay for them.
The only thing guaranteed in life is death and taxes. Paying taxes sucks but they're necessary to not live in the equivalent of a third world country.
Plus if you want to complain about our country's allocation of spending. Blame our bloated military budget. Gut that and focus strictly on defense and we've saved a ton of money.
Barefootin_Fiend
Active member
13448957:Funkadelic said:
sounds pretty familiar....
Funkadelic
Active member
13448955:yeahmon said:
You wouldn't be paying 90% of your income unless you're rich as hell. Which your parents may very well be. Taxes on the wealthy were above 90% in the 1950s which was one of our nations most prosperous times.
I'm not necessarily an advocate of going back to that or a supporter of Bernie. But it's important to understand our nations history before diving in to these kinds of debates.
yeahmon
Member
13448957:Funkadelic said:
I understand taxes are a necessary evil that is why in my last post i classified a bit. and i could flip this around on all of you and say stop repeating what you hear every night on csnbc. i dont care who you are even for the 1% a 90% tax rate is very very high.
Charlie_Kelly
Active member
13448916:*CM* said:
Except socialist policies are working all over the world today...
What immigrants do you speak of?
What individual rights will we lose? What happened to help thy neighbor? That's in the bible btw, something you conservatives seem to have an endless boner for.
Taxes will increase sure and guess who will pay them? The middle class because the wealthy have been craftily dodging them for years under capitalism.
Conservative policy put us into this shit hole we are currently in, I'd rather not go back to that.
SANDERS 2016
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
13449116:Granite_State said:
Would like to point out the French and certainly the Greeks have had issues with their socialist policies as of late. However, there are numerous underlying factors to both of those cases that stretch far beyond a simple liberal/conservative argument.
There is no singular "type" of government that will always be successful. It is going to have to be a fluid and adaptive government, something the US has struggled with for the past few terms.
tomPietrowski
Active member
I have not read most of this but I love the knowledge onenerdykid drops. Not just a boot dude but a politician too 
nice to see huck noris here too I do like these debates.
nice to see huck noris here too I do like these debates.
270on420out
Active member
I hate both sides of the spectrum.
Scaredwhiteboy
Active member
13448686:S.J.W said:
If you really are a communist, it might be easier to vote for Bernie Sanders than resurrect the dead.
In terms of the main parts these days it's all the same and it's all bullshit. Other than that I'm more fiscally conservative and somewhat socially liberal. Depends on the issue though.
snomaster
Active member
I have streaks of libertarianism, and democratic socialism. We should be fiscally conservative and socially liberal. I hate the two party system. I just want a leader with common sense!
First, get money our of politics. Overturn Citizen's United and AMMEND THE CONSTITUTION:http://www.stampstampede.org/pages/money-in-politics (I bought the stamp and mark every note that comes my way)
I support a flat consumption-based tax. Keep your income, tax-free, and only get taxed when you spend it. Food and rent would be exempt, as would be a first home up to a certain value. I don't foresee needing to tax business profits (unless funds move overseas). But if some rich investor buys a second house and a boat, he/she is getting hit hard.
Instead of having incentives for things like renewable energy, fine the shit out of people/companies who are found to pollute and cause health damage. This will enable us to move towards near 100% renewable energy generation without any false market crutches. Do you know that covering 15% of Nevada could energize the entire nation? That doesn't make sense to actually implement because of distribution logistics, but that gives you perspective. As battery storage develops, our grid will be able to better handle daytime high production of solar, balanced with wind and hydro power, enabling a network of clean energy distributed close to its demand load.
We need a single payer healthcare system. And the crazy thing is we already have it! Expand medicare. Let people buy into it if they make over a certain amount. The 1000lbs gorilla in the room of health care inefficiency is the health insurance industry. But if people want special pampering, encourage a parallel private health care industry for which people can purchase additional private health insurance. This is what they already do in the UK.
Spend less on the military industrial complex, but support struggling vets with good jobs and benefits. Support international nuclear disarmament. Encourage negotiations. Leave regions alone that continue 1000 year religious wars.
Use tax dollars to invest in infrastructure and teachers.
Fair trade ≠ Free trade agreements.
Labels should disclose what is in products and where they originate. For instance, no food should need to be labeled "organic". But if a food is grown with pesticides, genetically modified organisms etc, that should be on the damn label!
End the war on drugs. Drug problems are health issues. Treat them accordingly.
First, get money our of politics. Overturn Citizen's United and AMMEND THE CONSTITUTION:http://www.stampstampede.org/pages/money-in-politics (I bought the stamp and mark every note that comes my way)
I support a flat consumption-based tax. Keep your income, tax-free, and only get taxed when you spend it. Food and rent would be exempt, as would be a first home up to a certain value. I don't foresee needing to tax business profits (unless funds move overseas). But if some rich investor buys a second house and a boat, he/she is getting hit hard.
Instead of having incentives for things like renewable energy, fine the shit out of people/companies who are found to pollute and cause health damage. This will enable us to move towards near 100% renewable energy generation without any false market crutches. Do you know that covering 15% of Nevada could energize the entire nation? That doesn't make sense to actually implement because of distribution logistics, but that gives you perspective. As battery storage develops, our grid will be able to better handle daytime high production of solar, balanced with wind and hydro power, enabling a network of clean energy distributed close to its demand load.
We need a single payer healthcare system. And the crazy thing is we already have it! Expand medicare. Let people buy into it if they make over a certain amount. The 1000lbs gorilla in the room of health care inefficiency is the health insurance industry. But if people want special pampering, encourage a parallel private health care industry for which people can purchase additional private health insurance. This is what they already do in the UK.
Spend less on the military industrial complex, but support struggling vets with good jobs and benefits. Support international nuclear disarmament. Encourage negotiations. Leave regions alone that continue 1000 year religious wars.
Use tax dollars to invest in infrastructure and teachers.
Fair trade ≠ Free trade agreements.
Labels should disclose what is in products and where they originate. For instance, no food should need to be labeled "organic". But if a food is grown with pesticides, genetically modified organisms etc, that should be on the damn label!
End the war on drugs. Drug problems are health issues. Treat them accordingly.
ndye
Active member
13449301:snomaster said:
I think that disproptionately affects poor/middle class people, as someone who makes 1,000,000 a year does not consume 25x as much food, or goods even as someone who makes 40,000 a year, and even more so when you look at suppose 20,000 a year. Only getting taxed when you spend it incentivizes people to NOT spend, which means that less money would be flowing through the economy, which is not so good.
snomaster
Active member
13449349:ndye said:
First off, I clearly pointed out that food doesn't count (maybe unless you eat out, like it is now).
I don't believe the claim that this disproportionally effects poor/middle class people. It's better than what we have now! As it is, everyone is taxed on money they use to buy groceries and rent. My theory is that poor people will be better off when there is incentive to be more cautious with regards to frugal spending.
People will spend, they always do. And people are most willing to spend when there is a clear understanding of tax penalties, garunteed for the long term. It's when there is uncertainty that people don't spend.
ndye
Active member
13449368:snomaster said:
I think you have major gaps in what you want done vs how much money you plan on collecting in taxes. A pure consumption based tax would have to be very high, and assuming its flat and consumption based purely, it will always disproportionately affect poor people. The poor and the middle class spend much larger percentages of their income compared to affluent people, meaning they would be getting taxed at much more aggressive percentages comparatively.
Funkadelic
Active member
13448966:yeahmon said:
1. I'm not liberal and don't watch MSNBC.
2. While I for the most part drift in the middle fiscally I lean slightly more conservative there and am socially liberal.
All I've been doing in this thread is trying to help you not think like a 16 year old. When I was 16 I thought politics were super cut and dry like you seem to and I was hard hard core libertarian. I wanted to gut the fuck out of the government.
Then I got a little older, went to college and realized the world wasn't so this or that.
Straight conservatives and straight liberals are both screwing the country. Strict conservatism and strict liberalism would likely be equally ineffective in this country. We need to blend the two. We need to look at what aspects of government are working in other countries and what aren't. I used to be anti-universal health care until I read about the Swiss system. Their health care system kicks ass. They provide universal health care, but it's still privatised with almost 100 companies competing and driving the cost down.
There are compromises to be had all over the place that, if implemented correctly, would make our country kick ass. It's those who adhere strictly to the liberal/conservative dogma that screw everything up.
louie.mirags
Active member
13449686:Funkadelic said:
That is what they want. They are not going to merge because they are the same shit. They pretend to discuss social topics to swing votes while they take money from the same Special Interest Groups. Our system is so fucked up that it is going to be impossible to model our healthcare system like the swiss. Far too many filthy rich people are there to stop real change because they want to continue making billions. And the majority of the population is too comfortable to revolt.
My hypothetical situation to describe how we are too comfortable for major change:
Friend 1 - "Wanna say fuck this shit? They can't keep this up much longer! Want to start a revolution"
Friend 2 "na man, Game Of Thrones is on at 8 and tomorrow we're going skiing"
louie.mirags
Active member
13450019:ndye said:
yeah nobody stands a chance that doesn't take their money.. Of course I agree