It’s Just Easier To Care About Dead Lions Than Dead People

BravoWhiskey5280

Active member
Sometimes It’s Just Easier To Care About Dead Lions Than Dead People

I started noticing “Cecil the Lion” trending on Facebook and Twitter at some point yesterday afternoon. By the evening, it was the most popular topic on social media, and stories about the lion were popping up on all of the national news sites.

Before I took the time to investigate, I tried to imagine if there could be any valid reason for a wild cat to become the biggest news item in the world. On a day when another undercover video revealed Planned Parenthood dismembering murdered children for profit, I strained to think if there might be some justification for ignoring the harvesting of human beings in favor of obsessing over a large feline in Africa.

I thought maybe the lion had cured cancer, or sprouted wings and flown into space, or stood on its hind legs and recited the Gettysburg Address. Surely, these developments would vindicate the disproportionate amount of attention it was receiving. But I quickly found out that the lion, from Zimbabwe, had done no such thing. Apparently, all it did was die.

Of course, lots of people died yesterday too, especially in Zimbabwe. Across the planet, human travesties continued to unfold – Christians were slaughtered in the Middle East, political prisoners were tortured and executed in North Korea and Iran, Americans fell prey to crime and violence spilling over our southern border, and about 3,000 human children were butchered in abortion clinics, some of which were then dissected and sold on the black market – but this one unfortunate beast in a forest 9,000 miles away trumped all of these. Human victims would have to wait yet another day to be noticed by our culture. Their plight just couldn’t compete with a cute, fuzzy mammal.

Poor Cecil, as I’m sure you heard, was ”murdered” by an American dentist named Walter Palmer. The dentist traveled there and paid some $55,000 for the privilege to hunt and kill the king of the jungle. It turns out that the hunt might not have been legal. He says he thought he was acting within the law, and that he didn’t know Cecil was a beloved animal celebrity in Africa. His pleads of ignorance may or may not be true, but they are called into question by the fact that he’s been convicted of poaching before.

This was all enough to earn him the wrath of progressive America, but none of these crimes compare to the fact that he is, evidently, a Republican.

We know these details about his life, and about the sexual harassment claim made against him in 2009, because the media has feverishly poured through his record and heaped more scrutiny upon him than they have on every Democrat politician in the last 40 years combined. Meanwhile, the internet lynch mob predictably leaped into action. Palmer’s personal address was released, death threats were issued, his business was attacked and shutdown, he was forced into hiding, and scores of drooling trolls flocked to Twitter to fantasize about all of the creative and violent things they’d love to do to him:

Some even began non-ironically using #LionLivesMatter

Refusing to be upstaged in this contest for the title of Most Exorbitant Reaction, PETA proclaimed that Palmer ought to be “extradited and hung.” A bunch of famous people joined the dog pile, utilizing their platforms to declare Palmer “disgusting,” a “murderer,” and “Satan.” Other celebrities have asked that his citizenship be permanently revoked. Sharon Osbourne labeled Palmer a “killer” and said she hopes he loses his house and his business. According to Sharon, even his wife and children deserve to be homeless. Jimmy Kimmel, late night host on ABC, took time out of his comedy show to deliver a tearful rant, calling the hunter an “a-hole” and a “jackal.”

All of this, over a lion.

It bears repeating that this happened on the same day that a video was released showing lab technicians dissecting the body parts of murdered humans while discussing how much money they could get for each “item.” This footage was completely ignored. Our culture let out a massive, collective yawn, instead choosing to wail over the fate of some random hairy beast in southern Africa.

The whole thing transcends mere absurdity. It is beyond ridiculous. Far past anything that could be called simply exaggerated or irrational. The swarms of petty nitwits in our culture have finally outdone themselves. What we are witnessing is something worse than an Idiocracy; it is total moral chaos.

I’m not defending Walter Palmer, by the way. I don’t have any problem with hunters — and in most cases, African big game hunters help both the local economies in these areas, and the ongoing effort to preserve endangered species — but it seems that Palmer broke the law and killed a lion that was financially valuable to the locals. That was bad. He shouldn’t have done that. If the story we’re hearing is accurate (and there’s always a significant chance that it isn’t accurate, or at least isn’t complete) then Palmer was in the wrong.

Still, the reaction is so inordinate and overwrought that I have to laugh. I have nothing against Cecil, I’m sure he was a swell chap, but no dead animal could ever justify this excessive and callous backlash from such a frantic mob of vindictive, retaliatory buffoons. Even ancient pagan tribes that literally worshiped animals probably exercised more restraint when a heretic killed one of their animal deities.

It’s fine if you are opposed to what Palmer did, but that doesn’t excuse you from the duty to be sane and rational. It’s a lion, after all. An animal. If you want to be really agitated by a doctor who kills living things, you should probably be less focused on this dentist and a little more focused on abortionists like LeRoy Carhart, who murder actual people. Carhart has killed both unborn and born humans, and likes to do the former by ripping the child apart while it’s still alive. Maybe the media should be camping out in front of his house instead of Palmer’s. Maybe we should be asking why doctors are allowed to execute babies, not why dentists are allowed to hunt African game.

This dichotomy has become, perhaps, the most bewildering and confusing thing about our culture. Progressives actively celebrate the most depraved evils, and then make super villains out of folks who hunt, or fly Confederate flags, or refuse to bake gay wedding cakes. It’s like they’re standing on a street corner simultaneously applauding a thug as he murders a man for his wallet, and calling for a summary execution of a pedestrian who forgot to use the crosswalk. This isn’t just a matter of misplaced priorities; this is unadulterated lunacy.

Yes, I realize that liberal hypocrites aren’t the only ones upset about the lion. Some people are animal lovers, but they put that love for animals in perspective. They might cry for the cat, but they cry more for humans who are murdered, persecuted, or exploited. Compassionate souls love animals deeply because they possess a profound respect for all life. In the mode of St. Francis of Assisi, their mercy for animals stems from their love of God. I take no issue at all with the people in this category, obviously. I love animals myself.

But the fact remains that many in our society are descending like a pack of frenzied hyenas upon a man who shot a lion, yet feel no anger when confronted with the murder of children. And abortion isn’t the only evil accepted or celebrated by progressivism. We are living in a culture of death where cruelty and brutality reign supreme. The reaction to this “scandal” only further reveals and illuminates that cruelty. We think nothing of trying to destroy a man, ruin his life, and wish for his painful demise, without knowing anything else about him. We are so numb, so indifferent, that we will rip a stranger to pieces, cannibalize him publicly, tear him down until there is nothing left, and then sleep like babies at night.

Yet, the lion.

Kill the children if you want. Destroy the dentist just for fun. Demean and degrade anyone who acts or thinks differently, if for no other reason than there’s not much else to do. But a dead lion — now there’s a victim we should mourn.

It seems baffling. It would all make sense if our culture showed no concern for the plight of human beings, and also displayed a similar wanton disregard for animals and trees. Then we would just be nihilists and Darwinists. Human life has no objective value, we would reason, therefore no life has any objective value. We would be naked and honest barbarians.

But our barbarism is clothed and hidden beneath this thin veneer of an arbitrary concern for random animals and plant life. And not even every animal. That’s why most of the people panicking over “Cecil” will still order the hamburger when they go to Applebee’s, still use insecticide to ruthlessly poison innocent roaches and ants, and still drink milk extracted from enslaved cows.

They give lions and elephants a certain elevated status, but can’t explain why. They might insist that these creatures are special because they’re “endangered,” but they can’t tell you why it matters that they’re endangered. If the world didn’t need the baby who’s now being dissected in a petri dish in some research facility, why did it need Cecil the lion? What was he doing that was so special? How was he contributing to the advancement of civilization? He was peeing in the grass, licking his butt, and eating zebras. Big deal. That baby could have grown up and become an inventor, a philanthropist, an artist, a lover, a thinker, a father, a mother, a pioneer. If that potential wasn’t enough to let the child off the hook, why do we make an exception for the beast? Are we grading on a curve here?

These questions are rhetorical. I already know the answer. I know why progressives cry for dead lions and not dead babies: it’s called Natural Law.

Natural Law holds that all people possess a conscience, therefore all people innately recognize the distinction between good and evil. We are naturally repulsed by evil and attracted to goodness. This is why every civilization has outlawed sins like murder and theft, and hailed virtues like charity and mercy. Of course, many civilizations have redefined murder so as to permit a convenient form of it, but still no society has ever come out and defended murder in principle.

No society can ever be explicitly nihilist. As in, no society can outwardly live by the philosophy that everything is meaningless and nothing matters. Individuals can try it, but like Nietzsche they’ll end up in a mental institution, babbling to themselves while eating their own excrement. Societies, though, have to at least pretend they believe in doing the right thing. A society must convince itself it hates evil and loves goodness. Even the Nazis rationalized that they were serving the greater good of mankind.

So when our culture decides to sit back and tolerate, or even revere and commend, perverse evils like abortion, pornography, the breakdown of the family, the persecution of Christians, etc., it begins to accumulate a kind of Outrage Reservoir. Deep down, we must feel like we oppose evil. We can’t laud the most insidious atrocities of our time, and then look in the mirror and face ourselves honestly. The righteous anger that should be poured out in response to these true horrors is bottled and contained, clogging up our souls like constipated bowels.

We search desperately for an acceptable target for our surplus of withheld scorn, and when we locate it, we unload like we just chugged a gallon of laxative. Suddenly, some guy who killed a lion in Zimbabwe receives all of the compiled disdain that should have been discharged on the abortionists and the pornographers and the persecutors. Our pent up rage and anger mixes with guilt and self-loathing, and together it creates this concentrated bile that drowns and destroys whatever tragic chump they throw before us to be devoured. It’s nothing personal against him, really. Walter Palmer is a sacrificial lamb. A punching bag, strung up and dangled in front of progressive America as a way for them to release their moral frustrations. He’s an object. A receptacle for their misdirected vengeance. It’s like self-flagellation, only minus the self. And next week they’ll be flagellating some other patsy, and nobody will even remember or care about poor old Walter Palmer.

A year from now, someone will do a follow up story about that villainous dentist from long ago, and we’ll all think, “Oh yeah, whatever happened to that guy?” Then we’ll see that he lost his business, his family, and his dignity, and now lives as a sad shell of a forgotten man. “Serves him right for doing whatever he did,” we’ll say proudly, as we get back to feasting upon the newest Scoundrel Du Jour. It’s a never ending pattern, played out over and over again by a progressive culture filled with craven wimps, always compensating for their moral failings by tearing down false Satans, too afraid to do battle with the real one.

You might wonder how progressives choose their new devils and new gods. Why Walter Palmer? Why Cecil the Lion? Well, there’s a randomness to it, of course. And there are always the superfluous reasons, like the fact that most of the members of the lynch mob probably have fond memories of “The Lion King.” But I think, more fundamentally, progressives choose to care about lions because lions are an abstraction. They care about the idea of lions.

Real lions are all the way in Africa, or else contained in zoos. You can go and see them, or watch them on TV, or read about them, but crucially, lions will never ask anything from us. Our affection for them presents no challenges. We don’t have to accommodate them. I can say I love lions, but this love will never require me to do anything. Lions will never inconvenience me. They’ll never get in my way. I can defend the lives of lions by angrily Tweeting about hunters, and then I can go on my way, live however I want, and never be asked to change my lifestyle for their sake.

People, on the other hand, are real. They are here. They impose themselves on our lives. They burden us. They surround us. To care about people is hard. It requires us to live, act, think, and speak differently. We have to accommodate people. We have to tolerate people. We have to do things for people, especially the most vulnerable and helpless people. It’s no coincidence that progressivism advocates abortion to deal with children, and euthanasia to handle the old and the infirm. If it is going to pretend to love human beings at all, it must first get rid of the most burdensome types.

It can be hard to love people. And if you say you love people, life is going to constantly demand that you prove it. If you say you love people, you certainly can’t kill your own child, and you can’t support the killing of children, and even if you don’t have kids, you have to be patient and kind with other people’s kids, and other people generally. This is very different from loving lions. You can love lions passively, in the abstract; people must be loved actively, in reality.

If ever some deranged terrorist transported thousand of lions into our neighborhoods, forcing us to actually love lions in some real and present sense, I can guarantee the progressive affection for the species would vanish rapidly.

This is the progressive modus operandi. Progressivism loves everything that can be loved lazily or indulgently, and nothing that must be loved sacrificially and earnestly. It loves nothing that requires any action on its part.

Put more simply, it loves nothing.

But it will keep pretending anyway.

http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/sometimes-its-just-easier-to-care-about-dead-lions-than-dead-people/
 
Matt Walsh perfectly encapsulates everything that's fucked up in the world we live in. This is truly a brilliant piece of writing. If you have a conscious than you'll read this.
 
While I will agree with you, that the internet/mob reaction is ridiculous and way over the top, people would be amiss to think that there was nothing wrong, either illegal or immoral, about the hunter's actions.

People have the ability to do something or not do something, this in short is known as free will. Animals (arguably) do not possess free will and incapable of acting contrary to their natures/innate feelings. People are upset because this hunter chose to hunt a prized animal that did not need to be hunted. He didn't need to do it and there was no ecological necessity to do it. He simply wanted to kill it. What adds to the anger (and illegality of the situation) is how and where it happened.

Something I don't necessarily agree with (but understand that it exists) is some people's opinion that people cause all sorts of egregious wrongs but animals don't. And they are sick and tired of humanity destroying everything in their path simply because they can. There is backlash against the hunter for this reason- again I'm just explaining not justifying some people's opinions.

Also, just because people care about this lion's well being, it does not mean that they do not care about the well being of people. That would be a huge mistake to think. I am absolutely disgusted by this hunter because he is causing unnecessary cruelty and death and I think humans have a duty to not act in such a way- directly to each other and indirectly to non-human animals. I can be outraged at this hunter, and at the same time outraged by other tragedies occurring every day.

This last point is also one that is important in understanding the scope of Cecil's unfortunate death- this doesn't happen frequently, while humans are killing each other every single day. So because this is not frequently heard about, people tune into it. Is it a good thing that people act this way? Probably not. But are people in the right to be upset by it? Absolutely.
 
13470448:90053 said:
can we get a TLDR?

tldr here is a lot of graphic descriptions about murdering babies to get you to think emotionally about abortion instead of logically
 
13470441:onenerdykid said:
While I will agree with you, that the internet/mob reaction is ridiculous and way over the top, people would be amiss to think that there was nothing wrong, either illegal or immoral, about the hunter's actions.

People have the ability to do something or not do something, this in short is known as free will. Animals (arguably) do not possess free will and incapable of acting contrary to their natures/innate feelings. People are upset because this hunter chose to hunt a prized animal that did not need to be hunted. He didn't need to do it and there was no ecological necessity to do it. He simply wanted to kill it. What adds to the anger (and illegality of the situation) is how and where it happened.

Something I don't necessarily agree with (but understand that it exists) is some people's opinion that people cause all sorts of egregious wrongs but animals don't. And they are sick and tired of humanity destroying everything in their path simply because they can. There is backlash against the hunter for this reason- again I'm just explaining not justifying some people's opinions.

Also, just because people care about this lion's well being, it does not mean that they do not care about the well being of people. That would be a huge mistake to think. I am absolutely disgusted by this hunter because he is causing unnecessary cruelty and death and I think humans have a duty to not act in such a way- directly to each other and indirectly to non-human animals. I can be outraged at this hunter, and at the same time outraged by other tragedies occurring every day.

This last point is also one that is important in understanding the scope of Cecil's unfortunate death- this doesn't happen frequently, while humans are killing each other every single day. So because this is not frequently heard about, people tune into it. Is it a good thing that people act this way? Probably not. But are people in the right to be upset by it? Absolutely.

I agree that people have the right to be upset at this dentist. I'm a hunter so I get furious when these douche bags do something like this and make all hunters look bad. Hunting should be done in the most ethical means possible. Bating, torturing, illegally killing, killing for fun, shooting from your car, shining, etc... I hate all of that and am firmly against it. I've personally came across slaughtered spikes on my own hunts that were left there to rot. It made me very upset.

However it is absolutely insane to value an animals life over a human beings. Animals are purely primitive creatures, they do not have the ability to tell right from wrong or the ability to feel complex emotions that us humans do. That's besides the point though, the fact of the matter is that humans life is more important than an animals. The only reason someone may beg to differ is because they have foolishly personified these animals into something that there not, a human being. In reality they are not your friend, they do not love you, and they have no recollection about the silly name you gave them. You have to ask why do humans personify animals in the first place, and that's because when you make animals identity resemble that of a persons, than the significance of their life all of a sudden becomes much greater. The next thing you then have to ask yourself is why is that the case? The answer is because humans naturally value another humans life over all other beings. That's why it's ridiculous to be more concerned or upset with the death of an animal over that of a humans. Sure you can be outraged about both, but the slaughter of human beings should naturally garner much more attention.
 
13470452:broto said:
tldr here is a lot of graphic descriptions about murdering babies to get you to think emotionally about abortion instead of logically

Read what you just wrote man! You just admitted that we are "murdering babies", yet according to you it is logical to not get emotional about that. Im sorry but that train of thought is pure evil! Where the fuck is your conscious?
 
13470452:broto said:
tldr here is a lot of graphic descriptions about murdering babies to get you to think emotionally about abortion instead of logically

13470459:BravoWhiskey5280 said:
Read what you just wrote man! You just admitted that we are "murdering babies", yet according to you it is logical to not get emotional about that. Im sorry but that train of thought is pure evil! Where the fuck is your conscious?

Technically, he did not admit that we are "murdering babies", he just used those words. There's nothing about he sentence that claims that is his position, just that it was said.

Concerning your post, it is quite evident that your passionate views on the subject have caused you to misinterpret what broto was saying. Had you been more calm in your approach (less emotional, more rational), you most likely would not have misinterpreted him. No where did broto claim to be for or against abortion, he simply thought that something was getting you to react emotionally rather than think logically about something.
 
Logically think about what? Wether this is murder or not? Sorry but that's not what this debate is about seeing as how I believe that this is clearly murder so I'm not going to check my emotions at the door in an attempt to have a logical debate about this.

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Don’t Let Planned Parenthood Use ‘Medical Research’ To Whitewash Its Baby Body Parts Atrocities

SCIENCE

Don’t Let Planned Parenthood Use ‘Medical Research’ To Whitewash Its Baby Body Parts Atrocities

Medical researchers can get human tissue without buying it from people who harvest human organs from live babies.

By Amy Otto

Numerous articles are attempting to defend Planned Parenthood’s grotesque child trafficking by saying these atrocities promote scientific research. A recent video shows Planned Parenthood Medical Director Deborah Nucatola revealing numerous problematic practices that require investigation to confirm that for-profit sale of human organs is not occurring, Planned Parenthood is providing appropriate informed consent to its patients, and abortion procedures are not being modified in any way to prioritize “obtaining the product” over patient safety and legal requirements.

Nucatola’s casual suggestion over wine and lunch that engaging in partial-birth abortions will yield a better harvest of organs from human babies is not something to simply dismiss with “but it will help science.” Over at Reason, Elizabeth Nolan Brown floats this trial balloon poorly.

Perhaps now is a good time to clear up a few of the untrue statements that are going around about this: No, Planned Parenthood doctors are not doing this without women’s consent. (See the consent form Planned Parenthood uses here.) No, Planned Parenthood affiliates are not profiting off aborted fetal tissue—the $30 to $100 Nucatola mentions in the video is what research firms typically reimburse clinics for the cost of storing, shipping, and transporting it. No, Planned Parenthood is not breaking federal law against selling human body parts (which would require, you know, actually selling them)…

As Vox’s Sarah Kliff points out, ‘fetal tissue has historically played an important role in scientific research because of fetal cells’ ability to rapidly divide and adapt to new environments. In the 1980s and 1990s, researchers had looked at fetal tissue transplants as a possible treatment for Parkinson’s disease and diabetes.’ Researchers also used fetal tissue in developing multiple vaccines, including the Rubella and polio vaccines.

Let’s break this down. Planned Parenthood’s consent form never mentions organ donation. It is woefully inadequate in providing appropriate context and understanding to patients so they can provide genuinely informed consent. The form does not ensure a clear understanding of what will happen to the baby in case of donation, nor does it indicate that the practitioner will use an ultrasound to alter how he or she destroys the baby. Fetal tissue and blood does not match Nucatola’s description of what body parts Planned Parenthood clinics exchange for money. She clearly describes “hearts,” “lungs,” and heads (using a medical term for this last one).

As the video and transcript show, Nucatola discusses using an ultrasound to change how she would crush and remove the baby in order to preserve organs an unnamed entity had requested. Second, it is unclear at best if Planned Parenthood is profiting off the organs Nucatola and the second whistleblower interviewee, Medical Directors Council President Mary Gatter, agree Planned Parenthood is exchanging for money. To prove Planned Parenthood isn’t profiting would require an extensive audit of their books, so again it’s unclear how Reason can know for sure. Further, the folks discussing this with Nucatola suggest ways their business can defray administrative costs by coming on site and self-shipping, over and above paying for children’s organs. It’s certainly worth investigating what money changed hands here.

We Don’t Need Abortions for Vaccines or Stem Cells

Lastly, we get to the “why are you so squeamish about killing babies and selling them for parts” argument (which to humane people may not even be an argument). Brown looks to Vox to try to “science up” the case. The implication is that we need more abortions to make vaccines that were developed 50 years ago. We don’t. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, “some vaccines such as rubella and varicella [were] made from human cell-line cultures, and some of these cell lines originated from aborted fetal tissue, obtained from legal abortions in the 1960s. No new fetal tissue is needed to produce cell lines to make these vaccines, now or in the future.”

Because pluripotent stem cells from unborn babies are unprogrammed cells, scientists have found that they are harder to control and have proven less valuable in clinical work.

The Reason article fails to mention that no further abortions are needed to produce vaccines. These cell lines that exist can be duplicated and grown as they are today. If you want to make the case that stem cells are where future discoveries are at, there is a plentiful source of non-controversial stem cells widely available without requiring a single abortion: the placenta. This organ is routinely discarded after the delivery of a healthy baby.

While it’s true that it does not contain pluripotent stem cells (ones that can develop into multiple types of cells but not new organisms), there are existing lines available for research. Further, because pluripotent stem cells from unborn babies are unprogrammed cells, scientists have found that they are harder to control and have proven less valuable in clinical work. In fact, more Parkinson’s improvements have been achieved with adult stem cells while fetal tissue-derived treatments resulted in severe neurological side effects, including tumor growth and worsening of symptoms.

If you are convinced that pluripotent stem cells are the key for future discovery, thankfully science has also found a way to produce these cells without aborting babies.

Two major scientific papers published this week in Science and Cell unveil a proven way to generate patient-matched pluripotent stem cells without human cloning, and without using human embryos or human or animal eggs. Research groups in Wisconsin and Japan have generated ‘induced pluripotent stem’ (iPS) cells with the properties of human embryonic stem cells by direct reprogramming of adult cells.

We Can Print Human Organs Instead of Harvesting Them

Meanwhile, over at the Washington Post, view another poor case for why we “need the liver” attempts to justify violating the National Institutes of Health Revitilization Act of 1993, which says “no alteration of the timing, method, or procedures used to terminate the pregnancy [may be] made solely for the purposes of obtaining the tissue.” As we saw from the second abortion sting video released July 21, Gatter says “she doesn’t want to get lowballed” and explicitly states that staff don’t have to do anything to get money for baby organs.

OttoPic1

A main source the Washington Post article quotes is “Leinweber, president of the National Disease Research Interchange, a non-profit that receives some government support to connect tissue to researchers around the world.” Someone who’s main job is to connect tissue to researchers may not volunteer alternatives to tissue extracted live. Perhaps that’s why the Washington Post also fails to highlight that cells extracted live, or ex vivo, such as those being harvested from babies at Planned Parenthood, can only live for three to four days for testing compared to 3D bioprinted versions that can last up to 40 days.

Tissue investigations are not considered ‘in vivo’ results, so any potential new medicine will need further animal and human studies.

The market has responded in multiple ways to the challenge of what the Post says is exploding demand for human tissue. Several companies, like Organovo, have built 3D liver models to supplement in vitro investigations. This approach can be undertaken without the ethical and supply challenges of prioritizing access to human tissue in babies so much that Planned Parenthood is now on record twice describing how they can alter procedures to obtain better “product.

The Post also posits that tissue research will speed drug development and reduce its cost. This is unlikely. First, tissue investigations are not considered “in vivo” results, so any potential new medicine will need animal and human in vivo studies, according to Food and Drug Administration regulations. While a human tissue experiment may yield yet another data point that may be replicated in a human subject, as stated above several companies are responding to the need to simulate human systems. This won’t necessarily speed up drug development as much as provide an alternative way to obtain data before the necessary studies of how a drug influences human subjects, which has its own associated costs.

The second way science is solving the supply challenge is through the use of immortalized cell lines.

In the field of hepatology, when orthotopic liver transplantation is not possible, human primary hepatocytes represent the ‘gold standard’, in particular for the establishment of bioartificial liver (BAL) support systems. They also serve as an important tool in research and are of particular interest for in vitro pharmaco-toxicology. Consequently, there is a considerable and increasing demand for human primary hepatocytes, yet their use is hampered by inadequate supply, high cost, high variability and low in vitroproliferation capacity. These constraints have prompted a large-scale search for alternative cell sources, such as hepatic cell lines and stem-cell derived hepatocytes. In contrast to primary cells, cell lines are readily available, and usually have an unlimited growth potential and high reproducibility. Hepatic cell lines are either derived directly from liver tumor tissue or artificially generated from primary hepatocytesin vitro.

Clearly, there are many legal ways to obtain human tissue now that do not require what is occurring at Planned Parenthood. Does this prescribe some limit on no-holds-barred scientific investigation? Yes, it does. So did limiting the use of prisoners for medical experiments. The reason society regulates research is to prevent morally reprehensible acts.

Science, like anything we choose to undertake, has to consider the ethical implications of research. It seems reasonable to hold the scientific use of human beings to the same standard that PETA does for rats and monkeys. If you have to ask yourself why we should value human life, you might be beyond reason.

Amy Otto is a Senior Contributor at The Federalist. Amy’s work has also been published at Townhall, Pocket Full of Liberty, and the UK site The Conservative Woman.

Abortion Baby Parts Editors Picks Elizabeth Nolan Brown embryonic stem cell research Huffington Post human tissue human trafficking Medical Research organ harvesting Planned Parenthood Reason magazine research stem cells vaccines

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13470462:onenerdykid said:
Technically, he did not admit that we are "murdering babies", he just used those words. There's nothing about he sentence that claims that is his position, just that it was said.

Concerning your post, it is quite evident that your passionate views on the subject have caused you to misinterpret what broto was saying. Had you been more calm in your approach (less emotional, more rational), you most likely would not have misinterpreted him. No where did broto claim to be for or against abortion, he simply thought that something was getting you to react emotionally rather than think logically about something.

Thank you, jesus.

Op- this article did exactly what the author wanted it to and got your huge emotionally charged panties in such a enormous bunch that you can't even read my post without getting upset and making assumptions. Also, nowhere did it have anything to do with my personal beliefs. I simply commented on the fact that the article you posted from one of the most extreme right wing websites uses emotions rather than logic to put abortion under a bad light. That is dangerous.
 
Tldr, its not that we care more about animals than, people it's that animals are a lot more defenseless and the fact that it's some rich white dude who paid 50 grand to go hunting doesn't really help his case.
 
topic:BravoWhiskey5280 said:
On a day when another undercover video revealed Planned Parenthood dismembering murdered children for profit

Stopped reading when dude got all pro-lifey...
 
13470466:BravoWhiskey5280 said:
Logically think about what? Wether this is murder or not? Sorry but that's not what this debate is about seeing as how I believe that this is clearly murder so I'm not going to check my emotions at the door in an attempt to have a logical debate about this.

I do bounce back and forth from thinking you are a troll and thinking you are honestly trying to have a discussion. For the sake of summer, I will stick to the latter. For now.

You do see the problem with talking about how "we are so much better than animals" but then completely refuse to use the faculty that makes us so much more important than them? (FYI, that would be reason). By you not checking your emotions and not listening to reason, you are acting no better than the beasts you claim to be better than.

Loud, emotional yelling will get you nowhere. Kind of like an annoying dog that won't stop barking at the wall.
 
13470458:BravoWhiskey5280 said:
Animals are purely primitive creatures, they do not have the ability to tell right from wrong or the ability to feel complex emotions that us humans do.

Prove it.

And aren't you the guy that complained about being profiled because you didn't like the way some black ladies looked at you?
 
13470471:nocturnal said:
Tldr, its not that we care more about animals than, people it's that animals are a lot more defenseless and the fact that it's some rich white dude who paid 50 grand to go hunting doesn't really help his case.

Lol, being that his rant was all about dead defenseless babies, i'm sure he'd argue that statement, but still..
 
Fuck off with this pro life bullshit. Who will take care of the babies? They'll just be another drain on the welfare system and continue the cycle of poverty. No one who gets an abortion fucking enjoys it. NO ONE.
 
youre title would be more effective if it was "Its easier to care about dead lions than the ongoing issues already occurring in Africa that are mainly responsible for the deaths of countless people", I think.

like shit, warlords mutiliating female genetalia scares me more than some rich dude with a rifle, but whatever floats everyones goats I guess.

not defending this guy, but are we really gonna sit here and say that rich people going on trophy hunts is the worst thing to ever occur in Africa?
 
TL:DR?

Sparknotes:

Think-of-the-children.jpg
 
13470975:DeebieSkeebies said:
youre title would be more effective if it was "Its easier to care about dead lions than the ongoing issues already occurring in Africa that are mainly responsible for the deaths of countless people", I think.

like shit, warlords mutiliating female genetalia scares me more than some rich dude with a rifle, but whatever floats everyones goats I guess.

not defending this guy, but are we really gonna sit here and say that rich people going on trophy hunts is the worst thing to ever occur in Africa?

Exactly. Our culture is so screwed up that people will lose their minds over one lion, but meanwhile there's mass genocide and the rampant spread of AIDS that no one seems to care about.

Oh wait, everyone did their part by circulating photos of Kony on Facebook calling for an end to his reign of terror. Smh
 
13470459:BravoWhiskey5280 said:
Read what you just wrote man! You just admitted that we are "murdering babies", yet according to you it is logical to not get emotional about that. Im sorry but that train of thought is pure evil! Where the fuck is your conscious?

you are a fucking idiot. don't believe all the conservative propaganda. they are not "selling baby parts" or any shit like that. with the consent of the woman, they are using the stem cells from the aborted fetus for medical research on diseases like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's. otherwise, it would just go to waste. they are not altering the procedure in any way. if anything, this is more ethical because they're not wasting it. also, fetuses are not "babies." they are not alive. they are not fully formed. they are not conscience. they only have the most rudimentary responses. they cannot survive on their own. only 3% of planned parenthood is abortions. the rest is important services to women. also, they are not "selling" them. they make no profit. they only charge enough for shipping and handling. next time, educate yourself.
 
I GET pregnant so I can have abortions and sell their parts. Sometimes, I even wait until until my 3rd trimester to get extra money for the better developed pieces. Why you hatin'?
 
See what's funny is op complains about how they came down on this guy and how his life was ruined over a lion. I really like the part where op said how babies were brutally torn apart while they still were alive. Op ingnores the fact that Bill O'Reilly(who he undoubtedly watches) started a war against "doctor tiller the baby killer" who was found to have performed no illegal abortions and was well thought of in the community. O'Reilly repeatedly goes on about how tiller has a special place in hell and someone needs to put him their. And whataya know. Tiller gets shot 3 days later and does for doing nothing illegal. Op complains about this and related it to abortion. While sitting on his computer or phone made by children working for penny's a day. But that doesn't fit ops narrative. Therefore ignored
 
I can't tell if this thread is making me exited to go to dental school or destroying all the work I've put in to get there...
 
13470517:DingoSean said:
Lol, being that his rant was all about dead defenseless babies, i'm sure he'd argue that statement, but still..

I assume he's referring to abortion, and those are not people with brain function so no they're not defenseless babies.
 
13471215:nocturnal said:
I assume he's referring to abortion, and those are not people with brain function so no they're not defenseless babies.

No shit they aren't... I was talking about what HE thinks they are.
 
There are less than 30,000 African lions left in the world vs. more than 7.3 billion humans. Humans have caused 322 animal extinctions in the last 500 years, two thirds of which in the last century. And you ask why I care more about the preservation of wildlife than people? Go fuck yourself OP.

Sources:
http://news.discovery.com/animals/e...imal-extinctions-in-past-500-years-140724.htm
http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/
http://www.startribune.com/more-than-just-cecil-big-troubles-for-king-of-the-jungle/320245491/
 
13471309:robbinJAHood said:
30,000 lions on the planet and 7,000,000,000,000 people on the earth, that's why people care.

13471330:onenerdykid said:
you might have gotten a little carried away hitting the zero key

13471341:robbinJAHood said:
it says 7 billion of you couldn't read all that

13471348:onenerdykid said:
7,000,000,000,000 = 7 trillion

7,000,000,000 = 7 billion

I lost.
 
The author of this article, besides sleeping and apparently making unequivocal sacchariferous love to his thesaurus. Also has a thing for Abortions, or more so against them.

LJr9MOI.png


He is pretty darn dense.
 
It is not insane at all to value the life of an animal as much as human life!

I believe it to be completely insane for anyone to be able to rip the heart out of a dead deer with a smile on their face or rip the skin off a dead rabbit.

Just because people dont want to be reminded of all the horrible things that happen in the world doesnt mean that they dont care.

Cecils death represents the fact that we are so quick to impose our will in anyway we want and expect not to be held accountable for what may happen.

That is what makes people angry.

Rich assholes doing whatever they want wherever they whenever they want. The dentist represents every powerful man that has ever taken advantage of something or someone weaker.

Personally, fuck the lion, and fuck the dude that killed the lion. I dont give a shit about cecil but I do care about accountability and the rich white asshole needs to be held accountable for his actions and made an example of.
 
13471276:ANDR01D said:
There are less than 30,000 African lions left in the world vs. more than 7.3 billion humans. Humans have caused 322 animal extinctions in the last 500 years, two thirds of which in the last century. And you ask why I care more about the preservation of wildlife than people? Go fuck yourself OP.

Sources:
http://news.discovery.com/animals/e...imal-extinctions-in-past-500-years-140724.htm
http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/
http://www.startribune.com/more-than-just-cecil-big-troubles-for-king-of-the-jungle/320245491/

This guy gets it.
 
13470452:broto said:
tldr here is a lot of graphic descriptions about murdering babies to get you to think emotionally about abortion instead of logically

exactly what I was thinking. to be honest i lost it when he described illegal immigrants coming from mexico as "Crime spilling across our southern border"

What a fucking pair that guy has to hop on the Trump Wagon and describe everyone coming from mexico a fucking criminal (Technically they are by hopping border) in the dangerous sense. We have just as many murderous fucking idiots that are natural born citizens here as anywhere in the world. AND the fact that an abortion is "Murdering a Human Child" rather than what it is.Total right move to try and blow up the conversation like a load of shitheads.
 
13471276:ANDR01D said:
There are less than 30,000 African lions left in the world vs. more than 7.3 billion humans. Humans have caused 322 animal extinctions in the last 500 years, two thirds of which in the last century. And you ask why I care more about the preservation of wildlife than people? Go fuck yourself OP.

Sources:
http://news.discovery.com/animals/e...imal-extinctions-in-past-500-years-140724.htm
http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/
http://www.startribune.com/more-than-just-cecil-big-troubles-for-king-of-the-jungle/320245491/

And you are a physchopath.

I guess youre the asshole who swims past the woman drowning to save the dog haha.
 
topic:BravoWhiskey5280 said:
Sometimes It’s Just Easier To Care About Dead Lions Than Dead People

I started noticing “Cecil the Lion” trending on Facebook and Twitter at some point yesterday afternoon. By the evening, it was the most popular topic on social media, and stories about the lion were popping up on all of the national news sites.

Before I took the time to investigate, I tried to imagine if there could be any valid reason for a wild cat to become the biggest news item in the world. On a day when another undercover video revealed Planned Parenthood dismembering murdered children for profit, I strained to think if there might be some justification for ignoring the harvesting of human beings in favor of obsessing over a large feline in Africa.

I thought maybe the lion had cured cancer, or sprouted wings and flown into space, or stood on its hind legs and recited the Gettysburg Address. Surely, these developments would vindicate the disproportionate amount of attention it was receiving. But I quickly found out that the lion, from Zimbabwe, had done no such thing. Apparently, all it did was die.

Of course, lots of people died yesterday too, especially in Zimbabwe. Across the planet, human travesties continued to unfold – Christians were slaughtered in the Middle East, political prisoners were tortured and executed in North Korea and Iran, Americans fell prey to crime and violence spilling over our southern border, and about 3,000 human children were butchered in abortion clinics, some of which were then dissected and sold on the black market – but this one unfortunate beast in a forest 9,000 miles away trumped all of these. Human victims would have to wait yet another day to be noticed by our culture. Their plight just couldn’t compete with a cute, fuzzy mammal.

Poor Cecil, as I’m sure you heard, was ”murdered” by an American dentist named Walter Palmer. The dentist traveled there and paid some $55,000 for the privilege to hunt and kill the king of the jungle. It turns out that the hunt might not have been legal. He says he thought he was acting within the law, and that he didn’t know Cecil was a beloved animal celebrity in Africa. His pleads of ignorance may or may not be true, but they are called into question by the fact that he’s been convicted of poaching before.

This was all enough to earn him the wrath of progressive America, but none of these crimes compare to the fact that he is, evidently, a Republican.

We know these details about his life, and about the sexual harassment claim made against him in 2009, because the media has feverishly poured through his record and heaped more scrutiny upon him than they have on every Democrat politician in the last 40 years combined. Meanwhile, the internet lynch mob predictably leaped into action. Palmer’s personal address was released, death threats were issued, his business was attacked and shutdown, he was forced into hiding, and scores of drooling trolls flocked to Twitter to fantasize about all of the creative and violent things they’d love to do to him:

Some even began non-ironically using #LionLivesMatter

Refusing to be upstaged in this contest for the title of Most Exorbitant Reaction, PETA proclaimed that Palmer ought to be “extradited and hung.” A bunch of famous people joined the dog pile, utilizing their platforms to declare Palmer “disgusting,” a “murderer,” and “Satan.” Other celebrities have asked that his citizenship be permanently revoked. Sharon Osbourne labeled Palmer a “killer” and said she hopes he loses his house and his business. According to Sharon, even his wife and children deserve to be homeless. Jimmy Kimmel, late night host on ABC, took time out of his comedy show to deliver a tearful rant, calling the hunter an “a-hole” and a “jackal.”

All of this, over a lion.

It bears repeating that this happened on the same day that a video was released showing lab technicians dissecting the body parts of murdered humans while discussing how much money they could get for each “item.” This footage was completely ignored. Our culture let out a massive, collective yawn, instead choosing to wail over the fate of some random hairy beast in southern Africa.

The whole thing transcends mere absurdity. It is beyond ridiculous. Far past anything that could be called simply exaggerated or irrational. The swarms of petty nitwits in our culture have finally outdone themselves. What we are witnessing is something worse than an Idiocracy; it is total moral chaos.

I’m not defending Walter Palmer, by the way. I don’t have any problem with hunters — and in most cases, African big game hunters help both the local economies in these areas, and the ongoing effort to preserve endangered species — but it seems that Palmer broke the law and killed a lion that was financially valuable to the locals. That was bad. He shouldn’t have done that. If the story we’re hearing is accurate (and there’s always a significant chance that it isn’t accurate, or at least isn’t complete) then Palmer was in the wrong.

Still, the reaction is so inordinate and overwrought that I have to laugh. I have nothing against Cecil, I’m sure he was a swell chap, but no dead animal could ever justify this excessive and callous backlash from such a frantic mob of vindictive, retaliatory buffoons. Even ancient pagan tribes that literally worshiped animals probably exercised more restraint when a heretic killed one of their animal deities.

It’s fine if you are opposed to what Palmer did, but that doesn’t excuse you from the duty to be sane and rational. It’s a lion, after all. An animal. If you want to be really agitated by a doctor who kills living things, you should probably be less focused on this dentist and a little more focused on abortionists like LeRoy Carhart, who murder actual people. Carhart has killed both unborn and born humans, and likes to do the former by ripping the child apart while it’s still alive. Maybe the media should be camping out in front of his house instead of Palmer’s. Maybe we should be asking why doctors are allowed to execute babies, not why dentists are allowed to hunt African game.

This dichotomy has become, perhaps, the most bewildering and confusing thing about our culture. Progressives actively celebrate the most depraved evils, and then make super villains out of folks who hunt, or fly Confederate flags, or refuse to bake gay wedding cakes. It’s like they’re standing on a street corner simultaneously applauding a thug as he murders a man for his wallet, and calling for a summary execution of a pedestrian who forgot to use the crosswalk. This isn’t just a matter of misplaced priorities; this is unadulterated lunacy.

Yes, I realize that liberal hypocrites aren’t the only ones upset about the lion. Some people are animal lovers, but they put that love for animals in perspective. They might cry for the cat, but they cry more for humans who are murdered, persecuted, or exploited. Compassionate souls love animals deeply because they possess a profound respect for all life. In the mode of St. Francis of Assisi, their mercy for animals stems from their love of God. I take no issue at all with the people in this category, obviously. I love animals myself.

But the fact remains that many in our society are descending like a pack of frenzied hyenas upon a man who shot a lion, yet feel no anger when confronted with the murder of children. And abortion isn’t the only evil accepted or celebrated by progressivism. We are living in a culture of death where cruelty and brutality reign supreme. The reaction to this “scandal” only further reveals and illuminates that cruelty. We think nothing of trying to destroy a man, ruin his life, and wish for his painful demise, without knowing anything else about him. We are so numb, so indifferent, that we will rip a stranger to pieces, cannibalize him publicly, tear him down until there is nothing left, and then sleep like babies at night.

Yet, the lion.

Kill the children if you want. Destroy the dentist just for fun. Demean and degrade anyone who acts or thinks differently, if for no other reason than there’s not much else to do. But a dead lion — now there’s a victim we should mourn.

It seems baffling. It would all make sense if our culture showed no concern for the plight of human beings, and also displayed a similar wanton disregard for animals and trees. Then we would just be nihilists and Darwinists. Human life has no objective value, we would reason, therefore no life has any objective value. We would be naked and honest barbarians.

But our barbarism is clothed and hidden beneath this thin veneer of an arbitrary concern for random animals and plant life. And not even every animal. That’s why most of the people panicking over “Cecil” will still order the hamburger when they go to Applebee’s, still use insecticide to ruthlessly poison innocent roaches and ants, and still drink milk extracted from enslaved cows.

They give lions and elephants a certain elevated status, but can’t explain why. They might insist that these creatures are special because they’re “endangered,” but they can’t tell you why it matters that they’re endangered. If the world didn’t need the baby who’s now being dissected in a petri dish in some research facility, why did it need Cecil the lion? What was he doing that was so special? How was he contributing to the advancement of civilization? He was peeing in the grass, licking his butt, and eating zebras. Big deal. That baby could have grown up and become an inventor, a philanthropist, an artist, a lover, a thinker, a father, a mother, a pioneer. If that potential wasn’t enough to let the child off the hook, why do we make an exception for the beast? Are we grading on a curve here?

These questions are rhetorical. I already know the answer. I know why progressives cry for dead lions and not dead babies: it’s called Natural Law.

Natural Law holds that all people possess a conscience, therefore all people innately recognize the distinction between good and evil. We are naturally repulsed by evil and attracted to goodness. This is why every civilization has outlawed sins like murder and theft, and hailed virtues like charity and mercy. Of course, many civilizations have redefined murder so as to permit a convenient form of it, but still no society has ever come out and defended murder in principle.

No society can ever be explicitly nihilist. As in, no society can outwardly live by the philosophy that everything is meaningless and nothing matters. Individuals can try it, but like Nietzsche they’ll end up in a mental institution, babbling to themselves while eating their own excrement. Societies, though, have to at least pretend they believe in doing the right thing. A society must convince itself it hates evil and loves goodness. Even the Nazis rationalized that they were serving the greater good of mankind.

So when our culture decides to sit back and tolerate, or even revere and commend, perverse evils like abortion, pornography, the breakdown of the family, the persecution of Christians, etc., it begins to accumulate a kind of Outrage Reservoir. Deep down, we must feel like we oppose evil. We can’t laud the most insidious atrocities of our time, and then look in the mirror and face ourselves honestly. The righteous anger that should be poured out in response to these true horrors is bottled and contained, clogging up our souls like constipated bowels.

We search desperately for an acceptable target for our surplus of withheld scorn, and when we locate it, we unload like we just chugged a gallon of laxative. Suddenly, some guy who killed a lion in Zimbabwe receives all of the compiled disdain that should have been discharged on the abortionists and the pornographers and the persecutors. Our pent up rage and anger mixes with guilt and self-loathing, and together it creates this concentrated bile that drowns and destroys whatever tragic chump they throw before us to be devoured. It’s nothing personal against him, really. Walter Palmer is a sacrificial lamb. A punching bag, strung up and dangled in front of progressive America as a way for them to release their moral frustrations. He’s an object. A receptacle for their misdirected vengeance. It’s like self-flagellation, only minus the self. And next week they’ll be flagellating some other patsy, and nobody will even remember or care about poor old Walter Palmer.

A year from now, someone will do a follow up story about that villainous dentist from long ago, and we’ll all think, “Oh yeah, whatever happened to that guy?” Then we’ll see that he lost his business, his family, and his dignity, and now lives as a sad shell of a forgotten man. “Serves him right for doing whatever he did,” we’ll say proudly, as we get back to feasting upon the newest Scoundrel Du Jour. It’s a never ending pattern, played out over and over again by a progressive culture filled with craven wimps, always compensating for their moral failings by tearing down false Satans, too afraid to do battle with the real one.

You might wonder how progressives choose their new devils and new gods. Why Walter Palmer? Why Cecil the Lion? Well, there’s a randomness to it, of course. And there are always the superfluous reasons, like the fact that most of the members of the lynch mob probably have fond memories of “The Lion King.” But I think, more fundamentally, progressives choose to care about lions because lions are an abstraction. They care about the idea of lions.

Real lions are all the way in Africa, or else contained in zoos. You can go and see them, or watch them on TV, or read about them, but crucially, lions will never ask anything from us. Our affection for them presents no challenges. We don’t have to accommodate them. I can say I love lions, but this love will never require me to do anything. Lions will never inconvenience me. They’ll never get in my way. I can defend the lives of lions by angrily Tweeting about hunters, and then I can go on my way, live however I want, and never be asked to change my lifestyle for their sake.

People, on the other hand, are real. They are here. They impose themselves on our lives. They burden us. They surround us. To care about people is hard. It requires us to live, act, think, and speak differently. We have to accommodate people. We have to tolerate people. We have to do things for people, especially the most vulnerable and helpless people. It’s no coincidence that progressivism advocates abortion to deal with children, and euthanasia to handle the old and the infirm. If it is going to pretend to love human beings at all, it must first get rid of the most burdensome types.

It can be hard to love people. And if you say you love people, life is going to constantly demand that you prove it. If you say you love people, you certainly can’t kill your own child, and you can’t support the killing of children, and even if you don’t have kids, you have to be patient and kind with other people’s kids, and other people generally. This is very different from loving lions. You can love lions passively, in the abstract; people must be loved actively, in reality.

If ever some deranged terrorist transported thousand of lions into our neighborhoods, forcing us to actually love lions in some real and present sense, I can guarantee the progressive affection for the species would vanish rapidly.

This is the progressive modus operandi. Progressivism loves everything that can be loved lazily or indulgently, and nothing that must be loved sacrificially and earnestly. It loves nothing that requires any action on its part.

Put more simply, it loves nothing.

But it will keep pretending anyway.

http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/sometimes-its-just-easier-to-care-about-dead-lions-than-dead-people/

13470466:BravoWhiskey5280 said:
Logically think about what? Wether this is murder or not? Sorry but that's not what this debate is about seeing as how I believe that this is clearly murder so I'm not going to check my emotions at the door in an attempt to have a logical debate about this.

The Federalist

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Don’t Let Planned Parenthood Use ‘Medical Research’ To Whitewash Its Baby Body Parts Atrocities

SCIENCE

Don’t Let Planned Parenthood Use ‘Medical Research’ To Whitewash Its Baby Body Parts Atrocities

Medical researchers can get human tissue without buying it from people who harvest human organs from live babies.

By Amy Otto

Numerous articles are attempting to defend Planned Parenthood’s grotesque child trafficking by saying these atrocities promote scientific research. A recent video shows Planned Parenthood Medical Director Deborah Nucatola revealing numerous problematic practices that require investigation to confirm that for-profit sale of human organs is not occurring, Planned Parenthood is providing appropriate informed consent to its patients, and abortion procedures are not being modified in any way to prioritize “obtaining the product” over patient safety and legal requirements.

Nucatola’s casual suggestion over wine and lunch that engaging in partial-birth abortions will yield a better harvest of organs from human babies is not something to simply dismiss with “but it will help science.” Over at Reason, Elizabeth Nolan Brown floats this trial balloon poorly.

Perhaps now is a good time to clear up a few of the untrue statements that are going around about this: No, Planned Parenthood doctors are not doing this without women’s consent. (See the consent form Planned Parenthood uses here.) No, Planned Parenthood affiliates are not profiting off aborted fetal tissue—the $30 to $100 Nucatola mentions in the video is what research firms typically reimburse clinics for the cost of storing, shipping, and transporting it. No, Planned Parenthood is not breaking federal law against selling human body parts (which would require, you know, actually selling them)…

As Vox’s Sarah Kliff points out, ‘fetal tissue has historically played an important role in scientific research because of fetal cells’ ability to rapidly divide and adapt to new environments. In the 1980s and 1990s, researchers had looked at fetal tissue transplants as a possible treatment for Parkinson’s disease and diabetes.’ Researchers also used fetal tissue in developing multiple vaccines, including the Rubella and polio vaccines.

Let’s break this down. Planned Parenthood’s consent form never mentions organ donation. It is woefully inadequate in providing appropriate context and understanding to patients so they can provide genuinely informed consent. The form does not ensure a clear understanding of what will happen to the baby in case of donation, nor does it indicate that the practitioner will use an ultrasound to alter how he or she destroys the baby. Fetal tissue and blood does not match Nucatola’s description of what body parts Planned Parenthood clinics exchange for money. She clearly describes “hearts,” “lungs,” and heads (using a medical term for this last one).

As the video and transcript show, Nucatola discusses using an ultrasound to change how she would crush and remove the baby in order to preserve organs an unnamed entity had requested. Second, it is unclear at best if Planned Parenthood is profiting off the organs Nucatola and the second whistleblower interviewee, Medical Directors Council President Mary Gatter, agree Planned Parenthood is exchanging for money. To prove Planned Parenthood isn’t profiting would require an extensive audit of their books, so again it’s unclear how Reason can know for sure. Further, the folks discussing this with Nucatola suggest ways their business can defray administrative costs by coming on site and self-shipping, over and above paying for children’s organs. It’s certainly worth investigating what money changed hands here.

We Don’t Need Abortions for Vaccines or Stem Cells

Lastly, we get to the “why are you so squeamish about killing babies and selling them for parts” argument (which to humane people may not even be an argument). Brown looks to Vox to try to “science up” the case. The implication is that we need more abortions to make vaccines that were developed 50 years ago. We don’t. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, “some vaccines such as rubella and varicella [were] made from human cell-line cultures, and some of these cell lines originated from aborted fetal tissue, obtained from legal abortions in the 1960s. No new fetal tissue is needed to produce cell lines to make these vaccines, now or in the future.”

Because pluripotent stem cells from unborn babies are unprogrammed cells, scientists have found that they are harder to control and have proven less valuable in clinical work.

The Reason article fails to mention that no further abortions are needed to produce vaccines. These cell lines that exist can be duplicated and grown as they are today. If you want to make the case that stem cells are where future discoveries are at, there is a plentiful source of non-controversial stem cells widely available without requiring a single abortion: the placenta. This organ is routinely discarded after the delivery of a healthy baby.

While it’s true that it does not contain pluripotent stem cells (ones that can develop into multiple types of cells but not new organisms), there are existing lines available for research. Further, because pluripotent stem cells from unborn babies are unprogrammed cells, scientists have found that they are harder to control and have proven less valuable in clinical work. In fact, more Parkinson’s improvements have been achieved with adult stem cells while fetal tissue-derived treatments resulted in severe neurological side effects, including tumor growth and worsening of symptoms.

If you are convinced that pluripotent stem cells are the key for future discovery, thankfully science has also found a way to produce these cells without aborting babies.

Two major scientific papers published this week in Science and Cell unveil a proven way to generate patient-matched pluripotent stem cells without human cloning, and without using human embryos or human or animal eggs. Research groups in Wisconsin and Japan have generated ‘induced pluripotent stem’ (iPS) cells with the properties of human embryonic stem cells by direct reprogramming of adult cells.

We Can Print Human Organs Instead of Harvesting Them

Meanwhile, over at the Washington Post, view another poor case for why we “need the liver” attempts to justify violating the National Institutes of Health Revitilization Act of 1993, which says “no alteration of the timing, method, or procedures used to terminate the pregnancy [may be] made solely for the purposes of obtaining the tissue.” As we saw from the second abortion sting video released July 21, Gatter says “she doesn’t want to get lowballed” and explicitly states that staff don’t have to do anything to get money for baby organs.

OttoPic1

A main source the Washington Post article quotes is “Leinweber, president of the National Disease Research Interchange, a non-profit that receives some government support to connect tissue to researchers around the world.” Someone who’s main job is to connect tissue to researchers may not volunteer alternatives to tissue extracted live. Perhaps that’s why the Washington Post also fails to highlight that cells extracted live, or ex vivo, such as those being harvested from babies at Planned Parenthood, can only live for three to four days for testing compared to 3D bioprinted versions that can last up to 40 days.

Tissue investigations are not considered ‘in vivo’ results, so any potential new medicine will need further animal and human studies.

The market has responded in multiple ways to the challenge of what the Post says is exploding demand for human tissue. Several companies, like Organovo, have built 3D liver models to supplement in vitro investigations. This approach can be undertaken without the ethical and supply challenges of prioritizing access to human tissue in babies so much that Planned Parenthood is now on record twice describing how they can alter procedures to obtain better “product.

The Post also posits that tissue research will speed drug development and reduce its cost. This is unlikely. First, tissue investigations are not considered “in vivo” results, so any potential new medicine will need animal and human in vivo studies, according to Food and Drug Administration regulations. While a human tissue experiment may yield yet another data point that may be replicated in a human subject, as stated above several companies are responding to the need to simulate human systems. This won’t necessarily speed up drug development as much as provide an alternative way to obtain data before the necessary studies of how a drug influences human subjects, which has its own associated costs.

The second way science is solving the supply challenge is through the use of immortalized cell lines.

In the field of hepatology, when orthotopic liver transplantation is not possible, human primary hepatocytes represent the ‘gold standard’, in particular for the establishment of bioartificial liver (BAL) support systems. They also serve as an important tool in research and are of particular interest for in vitro pharmaco-toxicology. Consequently, there is a considerable and increasing demand for human primary hepatocytes, yet their use is hampered by inadequate supply, high cost, high variability and low in vitroproliferation capacity. These constraints have prompted a large-scale search for alternative cell sources, such as hepatic cell lines and stem-cell derived hepatocytes. In contrast to primary cells, cell lines are readily available, and usually have an unlimited growth potential and high reproducibility. Hepatic cell lines are either derived directly from liver tumor tissue or artificially generated from primary hepatocytesin vitro.

Clearly, there are many legal ways to obtain human tissue now that do not require what is occurring at Planned Parenthood. Does this prescribe some limit on no-holds-barred scientific investigation? Yes, it does. So did limiting the use of prisoners for medical experiments. The reason society regulates research is to prevent morally reprehensible acts.

Science, like anything we choose to undertake, has to consider the ethical implications of research. It seems reasonable to hold the scientific use of human beings to the same standard that PETA does for rats and monkeys. If you have to ask yourself why we should value human life, you might be beyond reason.

Amy Otto is a Senior Contributor at The Federalist. Amy’s work has also been published at Townhall, Pocket Full of Liberty, and the UK site The Conservative Woman.

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Be lovers of freedom and anxious for the fray.

Yeah I'm that guy
 
13471758:Bombogenesis said:
I'm so split on abortion. It tortures me. I have no idea what side of the aisle I stand on

It's not that hard. A. This is a choice that you NEVER HAVE TO MAKE. B. It's about having OPTIONS. No one is forcing anyone to abort babies they don't want. It's about having every health care option available to everyone. Period. And sorry, if you have a dick, I don't care what you think about abortion.
 
13471827:the.hellion. said:
It's not that hard. A. This is a choice that you NEVER HAVE TO MAKE. B. It's about having OPTIONS. No one is forcing anyone to abort babies they don't want. It's about having every health care option available to everyone. Period. And sorry, if you have a dick, I don't care what you think about abortion.

But it takes a dick to create a baby. Wouldnt that mean that the dick has a say in whether or not his unborn child is aborted? I get its "her body" but she should have thought of that before she nae naed.
 
13471832:DlCK said:
But it takes a dick to create a baby. Wouldnt that mean that the dick has a say in whether or not his unborn child is aborted? I get its "her body" but she should have thought of that before she nae naed.

That's a different conversation. That happens after there's a baby in the belly - if the option for abortion isn't there is a pointless fucking discussion isn't it. I don't want to hear your opinion on ACCESS to abortion - not whether or not to abort a baby you had a hand in making.

Also, you're never in that room with her when it's all going down, she's alone with a stranger as something growing inside her is removed - it's fucked up place to be emotionally and the man who took part in the situation isn't in there with her - she's there alone.
 
13471827:the.hellion. said:
And sorry, if you have a dick, I don't care what you think about abortion.

I'm not Jewish, so am I not allowed to have an opinion on the Holocaust?

I'm also not an elephant, so am I not allowed to have an opinion on the ivory trade?

Just because you are X or not-X, it doesn't devalue your opinion on the subject either way. If you have a good idea about any subject, you should be heard regardless of race, religion, sex, or age.

All rational beings have the capacity for moral thought and inquiry, and to say you won't listen to someone else's opinion simply because they specifically aren't able to have an abortion is simply a mistake.
 
13471844:onenerdykid said:
I'm not Jewish, so am I not allowed to have an opinion on the Holocaust?

I'm also not an elephant, so am I not allowed to have an opinion on the ivory trade?

Just because you are X or not-X, it doesn't devalue your opinion on the subject either way. If you have a good idea about any subject, you should be heard regardless of race, religion, sex, or age.

All rational beings have the capacity for moral thought and inquiry, and to say you won't listen to someone else's opinion simply because they specifically aren't able to have an abortion is simply a mistake.

I see your point, but, in this particular instance it's hard to ignore the engrained patriarchy of this particular topic. And to be honest with you, I would be much more receptive to a woman's voice on the matter than a man's.

Sure you can have an opinion on the Holocaust, but if you say that the Holocaust was bullshit, or that it was in some way deserved, someone will look at you and say, you're not Jewish, you don't understand.

Another example is my inability to really talk about the black experience, I'm not black, I don't fucking get it and quite frankly, my opinion on their life experience means shit to them. Like how a white man from Kansas, Texas, Tennessee, tries to tell me what I can and can't do, after consulting with a medical professional; yeah, I don't fucking care whether or not he thinks I should have access to abortion - and I would kindly appreciate him shutting his fucking mouth about it.
 
13471846:the.hellion. said:
I see your point, but, in this particular instance it's hard to ignore the engrained patriarchy of this particular topic. And to be honest with you, I would be much more receptive to a woman's voice on the matter than a man's.

Sure you can have an opinion on the Holocaust, but if you say that the Holocaust was bullshit, or that it was in some way deserved, someone will look at you and say, you're not Jewish, you don't understand.

Another example is my inability to really talk about the black experience, I'm not black, I don't fucking get it and quite frankly, my opinion on their life experience means shit to them. Like how a white man from Kansas, Texas, Tennessee, tries to tell me what I can and can't do, after consulting with a medical professional; yeah, I don't fucking care whether or not he thinks I should have access to abortion - and I would kindly appreciate him shutting his fucking mouth about it.

There is a lot of ingrained patriarchy on the subject, but it doesn't necessarily follow that simply because I am a man my opinion does not count on the matter of abortion. And same goes for your other examples too. They all fall victim to the argumentum ad hominem logical fallacy in that their opinion is discounted or considered false due to the person holding the opinion, not the opinion itself.

When a smoker says "oh you shouldn't smoke" his statement isn't any less true because he is a smoker. There are thousands of examples of this and they all lead to a false conclusion.

People need to argue about the ideas and not get sidetracked concerning "who" is doing the talking. This is the entire basis for feminism/gender equality, racial equality, sexual equality, etc. If it is not true, then your opinions can someday be discounted simply because you are a woman and that is just not the way reason works.
 
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