stonedbrian
Member
I want to get a cast setup on my vision 118s. I already have the pivots on a different pair of skis that I would need to remount. Is it worth it? or should I just get dedicated touring bindings?
Is cast worth it?
- Thread starter stonedbrian
- Start date
Yukon_Cornelius
Member
Yes 200%
when other crossover bindings like shift 13’s cost like 600 bucks just to have issues, and tech bindings can run even more, 300 is a small price to be able to rock pivots on the way down imo.
when other crossover bindings like shift 13’s cost like 600 bucks just to have issues, and tech bindings can run even more, 300 is a small price to be able to rock pivots on the way down imo.
cydwhit
Active member
Cast is totally worth it depending on what you're trying to use those skis for. If you're only touring on them, and you're not in ski movies, or trying to be in ski movies, chances are, you'd be better served by a good tech binding (probably an ATK Freeraider).
If the other options you're looking at are Shifts, Kingpins, Daymakers, or the new Dukes, I'd go Cast in a heartbeat. If the other options you're looking at are tech bindings (Vipecs, Rotations, Ions, etc) then no, go Freeraiders.
If you're mostly skiing inbounds on those skis, and want the option to tour, Cast is great. And if your tours involve a lot of booter builds and cliff hucks, Cast is great.
But, if you're mostly just "backcountry skiing" and not hucking your meat every time you walk uphill on skis, or aren't skiing them inbounds a lot, what's the point? They're heavier, and slightly more finicky than good tech bindings, and take much longer to transition. Cast is really freaking awesome for the people that need it. But you've gotta have a realistic conversation with yourself about whether you fall into that category.
If the other options you're looking at are Shifts, Kingpins, Daymakers, or the new Dukes, I'd go Cast in a heartbeat. If the other options you're looking at are tech bindings (Vipecs, Rotations, Ions, etc) then no, go Freeraiders.
If you're mostly skiing inbounds on those skis, and want the option to tour, Cast is great. And if your tours involve a lot of booter builds and cliff hucks, Cast is great.
But, if you're mostly just "backcountry skiing" and not hucking your meat every time you walk uphill on skis, or aren't skiing them inbounds a lot, what's the point? They're heavier, and slightly more finicky than good tech bindings, and take much longer to transition. Cast is really freaking awesome for the people that need it. But you've gotta have a realistic conversation with yourself about whether you fall into that category.
SlitherySnake
Active member
honestly i’d go with daymakers since you don’t have to mess with swapping bindings over at all
unless weight is a concern for you if you’re doing long tours
**This post was edited on Oct 31st 2021 at 12:28:09pm
unless weight is a concern for you if you’re doing long tours
**This post was edited on Oct 31st 2021 at 12:28:09pm
.nasty
Active member
14339158:gravel said:
One big tip I can give for anyone for the brake lever issue is making sure you lean down close to the heel and hear an audible click noise. The lip of the brake retainer wraps around the brake drum and sometimes it's easy to think it's all the way engaged when it just needs an extra little push.
.nasty
Active member
14339279:gravel said:
Also depends on how it's mounted. I've seen some of the riser/brake retainer pieces get mounted a mm or two too forward of the heel baseplate and it causes a lot of issues. I don't even use the template Cast provides, I just shove it flush against the heel baseplate and use a punch to mark where to drill.
gravel
Active member
my own thoughts about the weight thing, unless you’re into some crazy skimo or are really objective driven, i don’t know why you need ultralight and i don’t know why you need to shave like 1 or 2 minutes off your transition time. it’s a better workout to have to carry a few extra ounces, like weight training lmao. it isn’t as efficient but i hardly think that matters depending on your values and goals with backcountry. personal priorities. plus it’s really nice to have a ski you can ski full confidence at both a resort or in the backcountry, as a dedicated touring setup is pretty niche unless touring is all you do.
stonedbrian
Member
14339260:SlitherySnake said:
I had daymakers and they were great for short tours but I'm looking for more consistent touring
-eREKTion-
Active member
14339250:cydwhit said:
Interesting. So it sounds like you're saying that CAST system sort of negates need for burlier tech bindings like Kingpins and Tectons? I've always sort of lumped touring bindings in my head into three categories: Light (ATK, Vipec, Ion), Burly pins (Kingpins, Tectons), and DIN (Shift, CAST). Are you just writing off the inbetweeners? So my touring skis should get mounted with a solid lightweight binding exclusively? I've been a Kingpin fan for a while but I'll probably buy ATK's next.
cydwhit
Active member
14339408:-eREKTion- said:
Yeah. Sorta. I thought of touring bindings the same way for a long time, but IMO, and I know others in this thread will disagree, the combo of ATK’s, and cast/shift/dukes killed the kingpin and Techton for me. I just don’t think either of those bindings offers enough of an upgrade in either performance or safety to justify their weight. I trust the Freeraider to stay on when it should, and it delivers power to the ski well. So why take the big weight penalty to ski a kingpin or techton when they do the same thing?
Shift/Duke PT/cast on the other hand both stay on like they should, and come off like they should. For much of my backcountry skiing, I’m most worried about my skis staying on, I don’t want to kick a shoe someplace consequential. But, sometimes I like to build jumps and fall off cliffs, and when I’m doing that, I want my bindings to release instead of tearing my knees apart. The heavy DIN bindings are great for that. Kingpin and and Techton are not necessarily.
I used to make the “who cares about weight/efficiency” argument, and I still get it, but two main things have motivated me to go lighter and more efficient.
1). The lighter/more efficient my gear is (to a point) the more likely I am to go back up for another lap. For me (maybe not for everyone else ) more efficient gear = more skiing for Cy. Big win.
2) Efficiency really matters in a companion rescue situation. If I’m trying to get back up to dig out a homie, I want to be able to transition very quickly and get up there to help. I’ve had a couple of issues with some of the burlier options out there being really hard to transition/not working that well in walk mode, and if I’m having trouble transitioning on a mellow tour, there’s no way I’m going to do it well when the adrenalin is pumping.
Binding choice conversations are my favorite conversations because they’re so nuanced.
-eREKTion-
Active member
14339420:cydwhit said:
Thanks for all this, dude. I've never owned a really light-weight set up so maybe it's just time to take the plunge and see what I've been missing.
14339661:tcurle said:
Clearly you're new to skiing.
stonedbrian
Member
14340122:Cast said:
Yo glad to have attracted the higher ups with my thread. When you say that cast ships by early December is that still true?
stonedbrian
Member
14340319:Cast said:
Update: Got cast, sick as fuck. However people are saying that I should remove the brakes on my pivots. Is that a good idea? If so, how will my skis stay on the hill if they come off?
hot.pocket
Active member
14376593:nathanielbatson said:
Absolutely do not do this.
stonedbrian
Member
14376621:hot.pocket said:
Haha I always knew my friend was completely off his shit. I wouldnt dream of doing it myself but he insisted lol. Not to mention his reason was because the skins wouldnt fit properly. Maybe cut. your. skins. to. your. ski. width.
**This post was edited on Jan 11th 2022 at 3:33:57pm
hot.pocket
Active member
14377804:nathanielbatson said:
He runs skins wider than his skis? Does he not lock his brakes up during touring? Talk some sense into the guy.
stonedbrian
Member
14377808:hot.pocket said:
lost cause I'm afraid
FUUUCK
Active member
I'm on the same page man. I've been ski touring for over a decade and I totally bought into the "I don't care about weight on the up, I'm all about the down" mentality.
I went from frame bindings to MFD all-times to Dynafit Beast 16s and day-wreckers all because I believed traditional pin bindings were useless for what I wanted to ski.
I used to struggle on big objective days, lugging around a super heavy powder setup that I made work for touring, I didn't realize how dumb I was being.
This year I finally went all in and got some Marker Alpinist bindings, Technica Zero G Pro tour boots, and some Movement Alp Tracks 106 carbon skis and some 120 waisted WhiteDot Ragnarok Asym skis.
The difference is mind boggling. The alpinist binding skis great, it's functionally better than all the other touring solutions I tried, I can still ski exactly how I want to, still jump off stuff and hit pillows with no issues. I feel like I've been lied to the last 10 years, all this marketing to try and sell us heavier gear was for nothing. IMO if you're not spinning over 360 or hucking off >30 foot cliffs most days you don't need to lug around that extra weight.
The best part for me about this, is now I feel like I can tour all day. I'm smiling and talking on the way up instead of being out of breath, I'm enjoying more of my time out there and I'm getting more experience by being out there for longer and having the confidence to go further.
I went from frame bindings to MFD all-times to Dynafit Beast 16s and day-wreckers all because I believed traditional pin bindings were useless for what I wanted to ski.
I used to struggle on big objective days, lugging around a super heavy powder setup that I made work for touring, I didn't realize how dumb I was being.
This year I finally went all in and got some Marker Alpinist bindings, Technica Zero G Pro tour boots, and some Movement Alp Tracks 106 carbon skis and some 120 waisted WhiteDot Ragnarok Asym skis.
The difference is mind boggling. The alpinist binding skis great, it's functionally better than all the other touring solutions I tried, I can still ski exactly how I want to, still jump off stuff and hit pillows with no issues. I feel like I've been lied to the last 10 years, all this marketing to try and sell us heavier gear was for nothing. IMO if you're not spinning over 360 or hucking off >30 foot cliffs most days you don't need to lug around that extra weight.
The best part for me about this, is now I feel like I can tour all day. I'm smiling and talking on the way up instead of being out of breath, I'm enjoying more of my time out there and I'm getting more experience by being out there for longer and having the confidence to go further.
14339420:cydwhit said:
VT_scratch
Active member
Hey all, one season in on my JJ UL's with cast system. Day 1 at whistler is tomorrow and I am dusting off the skis and noticed one toe piece has a good bit of play. Has anyone else experienced this? Should I be worried?
[video]https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/1056148/IMG-1367-MOV[/video]
[video]https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/1056148/IMG-1367-MOV[/video]
deelonmusk
Member
14483312:VT_scratch said:
Are you sure this wasn't there when you first mounted the setup? If any of the 4 toe screws are a bit off, it can cause a little bit of play.
VT_scratch
Active member
14483331:deelonmusk said:
Hmmm I wish I had a video of the setup right after it was mounted. I don't recall. I do remember this at the end of last season but I don't recall the beginning.
14483312:VT_scratch said:
Mine do that too and I've never had any problems. As long as it's solid when the boot is in you should be good to go. There was a thread about a month ago regarding the tech toe pieces but also some reassurance for the alpine wiggle as well.
https://www.newschoolers.com/forum/thread/932552/Cast-system-toe-play--
VT_scratch
Active member
14483312:VT_scratch said:
Here's a reply from CAST. TLDR; Nothing to worry about.
"Hey Max,
Thanks for reaching out on this matter. First off make sure the alpine toe is staying locked onto the ski. If it is staying locked ....The little bit of play you are seeing in the Alpine toe comes from the lock. I will try and explain this the best I can. We had to make the locks a little looser two years ago. The reason we did this is due to the mount. It was very hard for people to get the mount 100% correct/ all 8 toe screws perfectly straight. If the lock was tighter and the mount was not a 100% perfect the toes would have trouble locking into the mechanism causing them to fall off. We ended up making the locks a little looser so that if the mount was a little off the alpine toe would still lock on. So, if you are getting a little bit of wiggle in the toe that is pretty normal. That little bit of wiggle will go away when a boot is engaged. I describe it kind of like a demo binding. There is a little bit of wiggle until a boot is engaged. You should check to make sure the alpine toe stays locked on in case of a fall, then we are all good.
Another way to look at this is if you are mounting the binding well/good there will be a little bit of wiggle in the toe. The bindings that don't have much or any wiggle is due to one of the toe screws not being straight and it snugs it up. So, in a way a little bit of wiggle is good.
Let me know if you have any other questions about this?"
