Industry Size Scaling Down?

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Member
I've been noticing more so in recent times that individuals are being dropped from long time sponsors, or whole teams are hitting the chopping block. For example, even though the team page is still available on the website I've heard Orage has dropped their entire division. Another example would be Nordica's momentum kind of coming to a stop last season.

My question: Is skiing less profitable now then in previous years? I personally believe that even though temporarily losing team assets may give help companies finically, in the longterm it'll be detrimental to the overall culture.

Let's hear your thoughts. Also, support rider owned companies!
 
I don't know enough about it to tell, you'd think with all skiings recent publicity that it would increase, maybe with companies like line kind of dominating the industry it would be harder for smaller companies to start up. Then again, I'm just some stupid kid with a computer I'm sure there will be a proper article on this sometime soon.
 
I would write an observation based article on the subject. However, I do think an inside point of view would be far more enlightening overall
 
it's absolutely brutal right now in the industry...not much money being put into the athletes, except for a fortunate few...
 
Ive noticed some pros get big sponsorships and then drop out of it because they would rather just film on their own wight heir own friends and pick up smaller sponsors
 
13563588:SteadySpaghetti said:
Ive noticed some pros get big sponsorships and then drop out of it because they would rather just film on their own wight heir own friends and pick up smaller sponsors
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Other than wallisch, like who? Not hating, just can't think of any others
 
13563622:Julius_Steezer said:
Other than wallisch, like who? Not hating, just can't think of any others
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Seems like Clayton/ Cam Riley/ old Stept crew has been getting a lot of sponsorship from TGR. I believe they partially funded "For Lack of Better" and I know they had a few shots in "Paradise Waits". TGR isn't exactly an explicit ski sponsor, but their money has helped those guys to do what they're into.
 
13563631:LJ.Corrales said:
Seems like Clayton/ Cam Riley/ old Stept crew has been getting a lot of sponsorship from TGR. I believe they partially funded "For Lack of Better" and I know they had a few shots in "Paradise Waits". TGR isn't exactly an explicit ski sponsor, but their money has helped those guys to do what they're into.
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Oh I see what you mean. On a semi related note, i was wondering whether cam Riley scaled down to 4frnt recently or whether I just had bad memory
 
13563556:VANULAR said:
it's absolutely brutal right now in the industry...not much money being put into the athletes, except for a fortunate few...
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Must be hard, especially when you're at the top of your game but sponsors still have little desire to give support. Going the other direction with a brand like Riot will be much more rewarding in the end. Not mentioning the IMK looks like a pretty fun ski...
 
13563556:VANULAR said:
it's absolutely brutal right now in the industry...not much money being put into the athletes, except for a fortunate few...
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Why is that? People realizing spending on park gear easily leads to pain and medical bills later?
 
13563856:fruitstick said:
Europe
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or Eurabia? I wonder if Sweden has any new skiers or wannabee skiers with their almost 200,000 new asylum seekers from Syria and other parts. Industry growth potential here?
 
13563870:HC__skier said:
or Eurabia? I wonder if Sweden has any new skiers or wannabee skiers with their almost 200,000 new asylum seekers from Syria and other parts. Industry growth potential here?
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Luckily im not from Sweden but I do agree immigration is a bit fucked in some countries here
 
13564251:LJ.Corrales said:
That's why I said "not explicitly a ski sponsor". They're still receiving money from them which helps them to ski.
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Athletes don't get paid by production companies.
 
I think there's some truthiness to the observation that ski companies are cutting back, in all areas, not just athlete sponsorships.

Here's my wholly un-researched and poorly thought out hypothesis. All action sports require a steady stream of new participants to replace the ones who are getting mortgages, children and medical bills and not buying as much stuff. The Great Recession cut the flow of new participants, namely young males in their pre-teens. Instead, those kids were given an XBox and told to go to their rooms when they should have received a new Virtika kit, skis and family trips to the Big Mountain Resort. That "Lost Generation" would now be in their prime consumer phase. So instead of buying gear, they're watching competitive gaming, which is booming in much the way action sports were in the early 2000's. Meanwhile, the average freeskier has aged in to the dreaded mortgage-baby-knee replacement phase of life and isn't able support the industry in the same way.

Ironically, lack of investment in exposing freeskiing to new young participants by way of sponsorships is mortgaging the sport's future and potentially sending it into a downward spiral. It wouldn't be the first time. I would argue snowboarding is already in that sort of tailspin.
 
13564823:AdrenalineGarage said:
I think there's some truthiness to the observation that ski companies are cutting back, in all areas, not just athlete sponsorships.

Here's my wholly un-researched and poorly thought out hypothesis. All action sports require a steady stream of new participants to replace the ones who are getting mortgages, children and medical bills and not buying as much stuff. The Great Recession cut the flow of new participants, namely young males in their pre-teens. Instead, those kids were given an XBox and told to go to their rooms when they should have received a new Virtika kit, skis and family trips to the Big Mountain Resort. That "Lost Generation" would now be in their prime consumer phase. So instead of buying gear, they're watching competitive gaming, which is booming in much the way action sports were in the early 2000's. Meanwhile, the average freeskier has aged in to the dreaded mortgage-baby-knee replacement phase of life and isn't able support the industry in the same way.

Ironically, lack of investment in exposing freeskiing to new young participants by way of sponsorships is mortgaging the sport's future and potentially sending it into a downward spiral. It wouldn't be the first time. I would argue snowboarding is already in that sort of tailspin.
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This is a crazy-ass post, but I'm afraid it reads as truth to me.
 
topic:j.w.v said:
I've been noticing more so in recent times that individuals are being dropped from long time sponsors, or whole teams are hitting the chopping block. For example, even though the team page is still available on the website I've heard Orage has dropped their entire division.
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Well skiing is a roller coaster the industry was doing well after the Olympics but then it kinda of plummeted nit much money and by the way this is Orage's last year then they are dropping all their ski athletes and turning into an non-skiing based apparel company. That why andy went to planks and you have heard the team rumors.
 
I have no real answer to why especially because I live in a pretty privileged town so it's hard to agree or disagree about the recession affecting skiing since the people I know still could ski but I work at a ski shop and this year specifically it has been slow where as normally around now we should be slammed.
 
Ahmet got dropped by UA.

Vanular left Faction.

Charles Gagnier, one of the fathers of freeskiing, got dropped by Salomon.

Who's next?
 
I think there's a few factors at play here; the awful winter the West Coast and parts of Euroland experienced last season, the current state of the Canadian economy, and the biggest IMO, industry saturation.
 
Thinking deeper about it to, I believe there's also issues with new yearly product models, and season ender sales. This is the EXACT reason why a few brands have had models carry over a season with no change, because they're not going to liquidate their product just to replace it with new graphics next year and lose all that profit. I can't blame them. It's something the industry needs to work towards changing if it wants to better sustain itself.
 
13564823:AdrenalineGarage said:
I think there's some truthiness to the observation that ski companies are cutting back, in all areas, not just athlete sponsorships.

Here's my wholly un-researched and poorly thought out hypothesis. All action sports require a steady stream of new participants to replace the ones who are getting mortgages, children and medical bills and not buying as much stuff. The Great Recession cut the flow of new participants, namely young males in their pre-teens. Instead, those kids were given an XBox and told to go to their rooms when they should have received a new Virtika kit, skis and family trips to the Big Mountain Resort. That "Lost Generation" would now be in their prime consumer phase. So instead of buying gear, they're watching competitive gaming, which is booming in much the way action sports were in the early 2000's. Meanwhile, the average freeskier has aged in to the dreaded mortgage-baby-knee replacement phase of life and isn't able support the industry in the same way.

Ironically, lack of investment in exposing freeskiing to new young participants by way of sponsorships is mortgaging the sport's future and potentially sending it into a downward spiral. It wouldn't be the first time. I would argue snowboarding is already in that sort of tailspin.
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I would add to your hypothesis that the new generation has grown up in freestyle programs with dreams of the Olympics. It should have been a smooth transition through the ranks, but as you said there's somewhat of a gap here - I can't say you're bang on with how it was created - but I don't have a better theory so lets go with yours.

This new generation joins a Freestyle program when they are young, and are presented with the idea that there's competitive freestyle and then this whole other world that isn't suitable for kids to be a part of.

This idea isn't fully baked, but there's something here which we need to figure out.
 
Between last year and this year there has been a fucking HUGE decrease in participation from what I've seen:

-Rail jams don't have the same kind of stoke.

This community used to be huge but I can totally see that gap that was mentioned earlier.

-Participation is down significantly... actually a scary amount compared to last year in terms of season pass purchases. Not only through us, but through the other mountains as well. You'd think after an incredible season like last year, people would be stoked but it's about the opposite.

-We have had an increase in new skiers this fall though. Rentals are way up but somehow total participation isn't where it used to be...
 
13565005:Mr.Bishop said:
I would add to your hypothesis that the new generation has grown up in freestyle programs with dreams of the Olympics. It should have been a smooth transition through the ranks, but as you said there's somewhat of a gap here - I can't say you're bang on with how it was created - but I don't have a better theory so lets go with yours.

This new generation joins a Freestyle program when they are young, and are presented with the idea that there's competitive freestyle and then this whole other world that isn't suitable for kids to be a part of.

This idea isn't fully baked, but there's something here which we need to figure out.
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I may have missed something, but what does the younger generations aspirations to compete in the olympics got to do with the decline in the sport?
 
13565075:Elbowkush said:
I may have missed something, but what does the younger generations aspirations to compete in the olympics got to do with the decline in the sport?
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As someone who grew up training for the Olympics, I will tell you. To understand you have to put how you feel about skiing aside. Everyone starts something because it's new, it's fun, it's exciting. Some people excel at it, others don't but hey, maybe they still like it and want to do it. Right? Well, not all the time.

So for me, I started competing in gymnastics when I was 8 on a team of like 50 girls. Each year more and more people dropped out. And usually it was the girls who weren't "allowed" or able to move up to the next level.

The higher the level, that harder the training. By the time I was 11 I was training 6 days a week between 27-35 hours, more so during meet season. At this point people aren't just doing gymnastics because they like it. In fact, most of them fucking hate it at times.

And when I was 12-13 that was it, most people were gone. The 50 people we started out with turned into 4 in just 5 years. When you are involved in something competitively, it's inevitable for people to drop out if they aren't progressing to others standards.

MANY left with feels of resentment. Most never, ever doing anything gymnastics related again. Once you start competing at a high level, there's really no more "for fun," in the sport. So you can't just quit and do your own thing. Some do, but for most they are just done.

So now what I think people are getting at is this. Lots of people are getting their kids in competition. Let it be racing, moguls, freestyle etc. What happens (I believe) is these kids either go on to be incredible or they suck and never do it again. Lots of kids do it just because their parents want them to and when they grow up to have their own say, many won't ski like that anymore.

I'm assuming back in the day, people didn't start free skiing to win comps. But now parents get their small children involved to compete and that's where it gets fucky for the same reasons it got fucky for me. But when people start skiing for the fun of it, without ever taking it too seriously in terms of competition then(unless they don't like it) they don't really have a reason to stop. As long as they're having fun they'll continue to ski. And that kind of mentality is being tossed aside for all these kids who are thrown into competition.
 
13564985:NinetyFour said:
Thinking deeper about it to, I believe there's also issues with new yearly product models, and season ender sales. This is the EXACT reason why a few brands have had models carry over a season with no change, because they're not going to liquidate their product just to replace it with new graphics next year and lose all that profit. I can't blame them. It's something the industry needs to work towards changing if it wants to better sustain itself.
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Unfortunately I don't really see this changing much as skiing is very fashion focused (as much as anyone may dislike it, it is true). There are some exceptions, jskis does limited editions, but I am not sure how that would work in stores. The other is Surface's blanks with no graphics, they look sick but I can see why other companies aren't doing it.

I think you hit the nail on the head with over-saturation.

There are more slices to the pie, companies are taking profits from each other and there aren't enough people joining the sport to match the amount of offerings. To reclaim your original slice you need to innovate, advertise, or do both (I would love more innovation). This is hard to do if funds are tight (from losing profits), therefore you need to cut the fat, and unfortunately it seems that athletes have drawn the short straw.

it isn't a lack of people as I can't recall one time in the last 3-4 years where I've seen more snowboarders than skiers in the park. Hell, plenty of parks that used to be quiet are now packed. I have also seen at least 1-4 new (notable) companies pop up every season, which makes skiing seem like it has the adoption rate of cell phones when the reality isn't even close.
 
I don't know how much this will have to do with it, but my generation, people 24-32 years old have zero income to spend on new equipment, tickets, lodging, trips, etc. Most of us have massive loans, low income, high rent/housing cost when compared to earlier generations. Our age group is a huge market that is supposed to be spending money on consumer goods, including skiing. Unfortunately, we aren't, and its not going to change anytime soon.

For the general population, you become a "skier" because your parents were and brought you on trips or to the local hill as a kid. Those parents are having a harder and harder time justifying that cost. Now kids don't grow up as skiers and the downward cycle continues.

Add on top of that technology and video games, and people are just too comfy and poor to leave their house. Hurray for technology.
 
13564985:NinetyFour said:
Thinking deeper about it to, I believe there's also issues with new yearly product models, and season ender sales. This is the EXACT reason why a few brands have had models carry over a season with no change, because they're not going to liquidate their product just to replace it with new graphics next year and lose all that profit. I can't blame them. It's something the industry needs to work towards changing if it wants to better sustain itself.
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But very few people (especially in our demographic range) can afford > $600 skis, especially when bindings and boots cost hundreds more. And outerwear can cost just as much. End of season sales are the only time that most of us buy new gear, as the savings are significant for the same product. So, while keeping models unchanged for several years may provide short-term benefits to companies, it could have devastating effects in the long run.

I think direct sales (think J Skis) are a possibility that has to be considered. Most retailers use a 50% mark-up (I don't know if this is true in skiing.), and this money doesn't go directly back to skiers. I'm not going to pretend like I know any details or whether this is realistic, but if seems like a good idea. Sure, it could kill shops which sucks, but the heart of the industry lies in people, and it isn't sustainable for entire teams to be dropped by companies that want to support skiing.
 
Lotta good points being made here- but, the ski industry as a whole is not necessarily 'scaling down', rather there are far more companies hustling products than there were 10 years ago, and far more 'pro' athletes looking to get paid. Basically, the pie has grown, but there are now a lot more people trying to get a slice. The small group at the top do well, not much has changed there.

Participation wise, skiing has been battling bad winters, video games, and snowboarding for as long as newschool has been around.
 
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