How much do unsymmetrical skis really matter?
- Thread starter MaimHelp
- Start date
Icant_kfed
Active member
It really doesn’t make much of a difference, the majority of park skis aren’t fully symmetrical, besides vishnus to my knowledge
Burrito
Active member
Way back in the day (early to mid 2000s) when park skis still often came with relatively traditional tip and tail dimensions and mount points (-6 to -10) I mounted a few pairs at true center and was perfectly happy with them in the park. The benefit of long tails and a more balanced swing weight far outweighed the slightly wack sidecut (though to be fair they did kinda ski like crap on the rest of the mountain.) With modern park skis being so much closer to symmetrical to begin with, I gotta believe you'd barely notice a difference.
KCoCM
Member
im on my third pair of nomads and am just now noticing that they list the tip and tail rocker lengths, which are 36cm and 31cm respectively. I had my first pair at true center, second i moved back to -1, this pair im going to mount at -2.5 to be in the center of the camber and am fairly confident it will be the best mount point of the three. from having mounted at true and -1, i pushed it out of my mind cuz once you mount you dont wanna think u made the wrong choice, but now that I know for certain I was mounting forward of the camber center the things i noticed about my tail catching when initiating turns and stuff make sense. I guess maybe there is merit to mounting true center if you only ski park, but the engineer in the making in me thinks that this is highly unlikely. I use mine as a daily that is park capabale rather than a strictly park ski.
to actually answer your question I think the skis will feel virtually the same, as a quick search shows that the nomad has 36cm/31cm tip/tail rocker length and 2016 da nollie has 38cm/32cm tip/tail rocker length. From these numbers i believe if you mount the nomads at the same position as the da nollies, which i assume youre riding at center, you were riding the da nollies at +3 of camber center, and moutning nomads at center will be +2.5 of camber center, which would seem unnoticable in that regard, and while you might be able to notice a difference from the tip/tail width differences, it think youll be able to get over it within like an hour of skiing
if anyone will comment/ correct things ive said please let me know because for the last week I have been agonizing about the fact that tip and tail rocker lengths are not listed for the majority of skis and I have come to the conclusion that mounting in front of camber center will negatively impact the way the ski rides regardless of whether you are using them for strictly park or not. Like if you know you want to mount dead center and know that the tip and tail rockers have different lengths, then you should choose a different ski, rather than mount in front of camber center. like i said i would love some clarification on this from anyone who knows what they are talking about I would love more information dont care if you make me look stupid
to actually answer your question I think the skis will feel virtually the same, as a quick search shows that the nomad has 36cm/31cm tip/tail rocker length and 2016 da nollie has 38cm/32cm tip/tail rocker length. From these numbers i believe if you mount the nomads at the same position as the da nollies, which i assume youre riding at center, you were riding the da nollies at +3 of camber center, and moutning nomads at center will be +2.5 of camber center, which would seem unnoticable in that regard, and while you might be able to notice a difference from the tip/tail width differences, it think youll be able to get over it within like an hour of skiing
if anyone will comment/ correct things ive said please let me know because for the last week I have been agonizing about the fact that tip and tail rocker lengths are not listed for the majority of skis and I have come to the conclusion that mounting in front of camber center will negatively impact the way the ski rides regardless of whether you are using them for strictly park or not. Like if you know you want to mount dead center and know that the tip and tail rockers have different lengths, then you should choose a different ski, rather than mount in front of camber center. like i said i would love some clarification on this from anyone who knows what they are talking about I would love more information dont care if you make me look stupid
MaimHelp
Active member
14403406:KCoCM said:
I appreciate an answer like this because I am an engineering student and it is the way I think.
One thing I will say that may be against the mindset would be that I hate how backwards mounted skis feel and look on rails. I ski 100% park, so that stuff matters. Seeing that I’ve skied these danollies all season and haven’t noticed a difference in the rocker, I will probably mount up the nomads at dead center if I were to purchase them.
did you catch a lot when riding switch with the center mounted nomads?
Anyways, what you are saying makes perfect sense, but I also have a feeling that as you ski on the ski the camber kind of forms to the way you ski, if you butter a lot then itll all most form to that and sort of “break in”. So maybe at first I’ll be annoyed by the camber but as I ski them they’ll break in to feel almost identical to the danollies.
KCoCM
Member
14403413:MaimHelp said:
im with you on the look/ feel of not having true center mount. if you liek the way the da nollies ski, by the specification numbers, i believe the nomads will be nearly identical. the catching feeling of the tail i didnt notice skiing switch because you are effecgively skiing behind the camber center when your tails are leading. the tail catching i noticed happened mostly outside of the park, trying to make turns in steeper more technical terrain.
something else to consider. Mounting pivots true center leaves more length of ski behhind the heel than in front of the toe, i measured the other day and cant remember the exact numbers but measure for yourself. not only this, but the screws of the heel if im not mistaken (not at home to check this out rn), are completely covered by your boot, while the front screws of the toe piece are slightly in front of your toe, so not only do you have less tip than tail when measuring, the dampening zone from the moutning screws is in front of center on the ski. essentially, I think to have a ski "look" centered with pivots, you need to mount behind center. i made a thread about this point last year.
lastly, as far as swing weight goes, if you take the 3312 listed, 3312/2 = 1656g per ski. 1656g/181cm = 9.149g/cm. mounting -2.5 like i plan means i have roughly (not exact cuz the weight distrubution is higher in the core than the tips/tails) 45.745g in front of boot center more than i have behind boot center. But if you take into account that the heel piece of p14s that i use is likely heavier cuz of the metal, which is weight behind boot center, the ~45.745 g imbalance is likely offset to the point of irrelevance. even if 45.745 isnt right, and we double it, saying that core cm is 2x as heavy as tip/tail cm, then thats 91.59? g imbalance, which is still only a 5.5% difference, which is again arguably negligible. for context, 91.59g = .2019 lbs.
ya if u read all that tell me what u think if not the TL;DR is that idk what to believe anymore about mount positions
weastcoat
Active member
14403419:KCoCM said:
Another engineering student here, I really like the way you think. I’ve always thought about the whole idea how pivots aren’t centered to your boot like you mentioned, rather more mounting area in front of the boot. Never really thought about it that way though and purposely mounting a ski back from center to get an equal swing weight.
I like your idea of mounting center to camber as well but I must add…
every Icelantic ski used in the park I’ve seen loses its camber completely. I also ride danollies and the skis (before I snapped behind the heel the other day literally right behind one of the heelpiece holes) literally look like bananas. Absolutely zero camber whatsoever. When I press the skis together at center there’s a good 5mm of space between the skis at my toepiece. For whatever reason icelantics lose their shape a lot and tend to be the ski that “breaks in” the most out of everything else I’ve ever seen. Just to keep in mind when you’re putting your bindings back of center, your nomads may be doing the same thing after enough time on them.
KCoCM
Member
14403478:weastcoat said:
ya i just got home and put my boot into my binding, they are nearly flat, prolly 1ish mm of camber with just boot weight, so prolly still the full 2mm without boot, but there is definitely still some camber. my rough measurements confirmed the listed rocker length differences there’s about 4-5cm less of effective edge in front of boot center than behind.
farthest posterior heel screws are about 4cm underneath end of boot while farthest anterior toe screws are about 3.25cm in front of boot toe. at -1 i have 69cm of tail behind the most posterior portion of heel piece and 67.5cm of ski in front of most anterior portion of toe piece.
im confident in the fact i wanna mount at -2.5 to put the boot center on the apex of the camber, i’ll report back in about 10 days to let you know if i can notice a difference
FruitBootPro
Active member
A lot of twintips, including park skis, are purposefully asymmetrical, so I wouldn't think about it at all
Skier_man05
Member
14403413:MaimHelp said:
If you have skis mounted at like -2 or 1 you really cant see much of a difference if much at all but it might just be a bit more comfortable.