i have to say, blindside's technique worked best for me. when i was first learning pretzels i couldnt get them because i looked up and i wouldnt get the full 270, just about 250 or 240 which didnt allow me to get all the way around to get a good push on the box. as soon as i allowed myself to relax and look at the end of the rail, then drop that edge, i gave myself some room to push myself around the other way. with that said, everybody's different. maybe if you are having trouble stopping yourself at only 270 then frank's technique can work for you. if you cant get the pretz 2 around then maybe mine and blindside's technique will work.