For you religious NS'ers

Parks.

Active member
My room mate recently told me that a couple years ago a priest at his church was arrested for diddling little boys. he proceeded to act as if it was no big deal and didn't really care. i dont go to church and have only been a couple times in my life; i thought it was more of a big deal than he did. so my question is this: if your priest turned out to be a sex offender, would it change any relationship you had with the church? or is it just my lack of experience in a church to think differently
 
The fact that your friend thinks it's ok for a 50 year old man, regardless of his other contributions to society, abuse little kids, that's his problem not yours.
 
Wouldnt really give a fuck. Unless for some reason he didn't diddle me..

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no no no, he doesnt think the act is ok, but i just found it odd that it changed nothing for him as far as the church goes.
 
For most of us Catholics, we recognize there has been some real nasty shit going on, and mostly it's driven people to center their faith around themselves and not in a manner such as communal worship i.e church. For some people, it was too much. Especially here in Boston as some abuses were covered up by the Arch-Bishop instead of being handed over to the proper authorities. This led to many leaving the church in the sense of quite literally, never stepping foot in the church or donating money to religious foundations.

On the other hand, the area is mostly Irish and Italian so everyone is still religious, just not as open about it anymore. Mostly because atheists tend to be close minded, condescending pricks and the whole thing with abuse is utterly immoral and disgusting.
 
I mean would your relationship change with NS if you figured out that one of our mods or something was a sex offender? no i really wouldn't care and accept that there is a bad apple in every barrel.
 
I was raised Catholic in NY... My family is all Irish or Italian. I no longer consider myself Catholic. Whenever my dad throws out an opinion that is considered religious or Catholic it is hard to take him seriously. Whether its an opinion on abortion or gays, it sounds like he's trolling. My mother on the other hand, definitely not trolling and still very devout. It is 2014 and we have unlimited access to information, I don't understand how anyone can believe that shit... One thing to base your morals on being a good person like parts of the bible describe. But, to actually still believe the stories are true is crazy talk...
 
Shit I would leave that church immediately amd go somewhere else. Its not like there's a shortage of churches in the us.
 
but the mods are not held at a higher standard such as priests. we don't have a personal and spiritual connection with them. idk it just seemed weird to me and i couldn't quite grasp it
 
you can't let one bad apple spoil the bunch. i'm sure tensions will be a lot higher in that particular church, along with many others in the world where stuff like this happens.

also, you don't really have a relationship with a "church," since it's just a building. and if you need a specified building to have a spiritual relationship, you're there for the wrong reasons
 
one of my teachers is a priest and if he got arrested for that honestly would not surprise me at all hes real weird
 
Weirdly enough, my old priest was caught soliciting sex at a park a couple years back. This mixed in with the amount of shit going on in the catholic church made me actually turn away from being a catholic.

It's just hard to believe a religion that promotes peace and goodwill and has leaders that harass defenseless children. The Catholic church is fucked up, I no longer go to church or associate my self with the catholic church. I rather just be a nice guy and see where it takes me after I die.
 
As a non-Catholic, but regular church goer, I've never understood the celibate priest thing. All of the pastors I've known were married with children and they are doing just fine.
 
It has something to do with old tradition. It's the same with women not being able to be pastors, a tradition that cannot be changed inside the church. Saying that your married to god and devote your whole life to god.

It's a little fucked, but I guess they have to honor the tradition.
 
Of course not because God is real, and obviously the priest communicates the word of God, therefore God wants little boys to get fucked by dildos. Seriously these people are so brainwashed their prest could go on a massive killing spree and they would just switched churches because god always has a plan. #Religiouslogic
 
I get what you are saying, I think I'm just over estimating the values and connection you have with the priests. Sorry for not being informed bud! I try harder next time
 
Except the mods don't preach from a place of moral and ethical superiority, nor do they preach chastity and sexual restraint.

Except mods didn't choose to become mods to gain unfettered, unsupervised contact with potential victims/conquests.

Except that NS didn't engage in an international coverup operation in order to protect the mods, and simply shuffle the deck and send the offending mods to new sub-forums where their reputation was unknown where they could begin again.

It 100% is an institutional problem. These abuses happened not only in Boston, or Philadelphia, or New York, or Wilmington, but everywhere. The church hierarchy decided the survival (economic) of the church was more important than rooting these predators out. They decided that the church's public image was worth more than the lives of children who will struggle with the abuse throughout their entire lives, almost certainly coloring and negatively affecting their intimate relationships forever.

I will say this: this is an unfortunate byproduct of historical attitudes towards homosexuality in part. In the 1950's, it was completely unacceptable socially to be gay. Many people with homosexual feelings were ashamed of them and fought to deny them because to be openly gay meant to be an outcast. Think of the pressure on a young gay man (say 18 years old) to date, to ultimately marry and have children. Maybe he would think about ways that he could be respected and valued, and not have to marry a woman and start a family and not be scrutinized for it. Maybe he was even so disgusted with his desires that he entered the clergy as a legitimate attempt to stifle his feelings. Unfortunately, maybe he wasn't the only guy with this idea. Maybe he found himself in a culture comprised in large part of people like him—both men and women, who were ashamed of their sexuality and perhaps with "good intentions" to live life the "right way".

To be 100% clear, I do not equate pedophilia with homosexuality. I do not at all believe that a gay man or woman is predestined, or more likely to sexually abuse children. It's obvious that heterosexual abuse is waaaay too fucking common.

It's not so hard (even in 1950) for a man to find a woman willing to have sex with him, or vice versa. In 2014, it's not difficult for a man to find a man willing to have sex with him, or even to openly hold his hand or kiss him in public, the same is true for a woman. In 1950, I'd imagine it was a great deal more difficult to find the same thing. And yet...sexual urges are what they are. Is it hard to imagine gay priests having relationships with one another? Is it really that much of a stretch for a sexually frustrated man in his 20's or 30's, or even his 60's constantly surrounded by adolescent, (14-18 year old boys who idolize them) who may even in some cases themselves be gay and attracted to the priest as he's "powerful" and respected to engage in a relationship? Is it hard to believe that man with so much sway, adulation and respect within a community, who is invited to people's homes for dinner, would capitalize on his opportunities? I don't think it is.

As someone who attended catholic churches until highschool, was baptized, had a first communion, and then was confirmed, I am flat out disgusted by the catholic church and think it is obscene that anyone would give their money to catholic churches at this point. You're literally filling their coffers so that they can settle sexual abuse civil suits out of court.

I have distinct memories of interactions with several priests who I now 100% suspect were/are gay. I wasn't abused, nor did I ever feel in danger, but even as a young boy, I had the undeniable and distinct impression that the adult man I was talking to was very, very different than other adult men I knew. If I had known the word effeminate or flamboyant at the age of 10, it would've been a light bulb moment.

End of this novel/rant which is full of wild speculation, my own half-baked ideas, but also built on many kernels of truth.
 
Lastly, you can have an "individual relationship with god" outside of church, but let's be honest, you're probably a dumb dumb if you have a sincere, heartfelt believe in god that isn't centered in fear of eternal punishment and being denied heaven, which, if that's your motivation, you're not really doing it right anyway.

Basically, church is dumb, and god is dumb too and instead of writing a five page messy, pointless essay, I should've just said that.
 
that fails to change the point that we hold mods in higher regard than the average NSer. That was only to prove a point, and what your saying is completely irrelevant and further proving the stereotype among the god is not real circle jerk atheist.
 
The church, especially catholic, has been one of the most corrupt organizations in the history of the world. If someone who is catholic or goes to any church doesn't believe that then they need their head examined. That being said you don't have to go to church to believe in God just like if you sit in a garage it doesn't make you a car.

Pick up the Bible, Quran, The Book of Mormon, whatever. If you like it and believe it who cares what other people think or what some "leader" does.
 
I don't think there is a single sane human being that would be even relatively okay for a guy to molest a kid, religious or not
 
This right here. Ignoring the problems with the church in the past is just being ignorant. However the "church" isn't what religion is about, and has been skewed horribly from its original meaning throughout the years. My old church would literally accept anyone with open arms, and was more about giving life lessons than shoving religion down anyones throat. Hell we had one sermon where they brought in a porn star and talked with her about how exiled she felt from society and the church, and about how anyone and everyone should feel accepted. One of my youth pastors used to be a cocaine dealer and pimped girls out. Not all churches are as judgmental as some may believe
 
It was actually extremely relevant, that money being donated to the church is going to pay off children's families that were sexually abused. Nice avoidance of addressing the point.
 
what? i wasn't talking to you. for that matter why would the church or anyone give rape victims money when it could go to other more important things.
 
uh.....we do? Maybe you do. I like most of the mods just fine, some are exceptionally cool, and some are just whatever. While I appreciate their work to keep things running smooth and their passion for NS, I don't value their opinions anymore than I do someone who is articulate and appears intelligent but happens to have a blue/pink name.

If you on the other hand just inherently find more value in the ideas of someone whose username is green, well, that's just kind of dumb. But then again, it makes sense, because you value and have "faith" that one guy has a more intimate knowledge of the cosmos and the purpose of life because he has a special collar adorning his wardrobe.

There is no comparison between the way mods are perceived and the way priests have been historically perceived. The only direct similarity is that they are both are known to blow Bishops. ZIng. Get it?

P.S. You're still a moron and one of the worst, and you still resorted to ad hominem attacks instead of using critical thought to refute anything I had to say. At least I saved my personal attack as an appropriate response to your standard inanity.

Look forward to verbally doing this to you in many, many threads to come:

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Probably could have phrased what I said a bit better, but outspoken atheists, especially those in the 18-25 demographic, tend to be very outspoken and condescending towards religious ideas.

You honestly can't deny that, and yes, bible thumpers are usually just as bad.
 
You realize that's my point right just repeated it? Churches give rape victims money, so the rape victims won't take the priest to court.
 
How naiive and uninformed are you.....?

The church is FORCED to pay victims of sexual abuse, no different than people are found responsible in wrongful death suits and are forced to pay restitution both for tangible expenses (say for example medications, counseling, relocation, whatever) and mental anguish.

Why would the church pay rape victims? Because it is easier to get the victim to sign non-disclosure agreements and pay them a few hundred thousand dollars and keep it relatively quiet, than it is to go to criminal court and have evidence of conspiracy to commit sex acts on minors, and evidence of institutional wagon circling exposed to the public whereas it would greatly hurt church attendance/adherence/reputation and THEN still cost them huge sums of money in lawyer and court fees, and still have to pay victim restitution.

Here's a novel idea, Roddy. What if church officials stopped molesting and fucking kids? That way, they wouldn't be obliged to pay rape victims, and they could, like you suggested, spend that money on "more important things". You know, like international conversion efforts....oh wait...
 
yeah dude, i really don't need to use much thinking when it comes to the circle jerk group that is currently in this thread. just not necessary.

but anyway 99.9% when you spew idiocy out of your mouth the only thing that i am getting is: i have no idea what I'm doing with my life and since i don't know, I'm just going to make myself smarter with large walls of text that have nothing to do with anything so i can feel smarter.
 
Brother man, I love life, and I love what I'm doing. I love my family, my friends, I strive to be a good person, and more days than not, I wake up grateful to be alive, alongside a beautiful woman, in a beautiful place, to a job that I never would've dreamed could be a reality for someone like me.

I know what hell on earth, self-inflicted particularly, feels like, and I've never felt better or happier in my life. I can though pretty much hear/see/read/sense your terror about life in pretty much every religious/legal/ethical thread you participate in and I bounce between sympathy and revulsion almost equally.

I do definitely feel smarter than you, but my ability to peck at a keyboard and draw on a college (and not a particularly good one at that) level vocabulary doesn't really cement that for me.

Maybe the fact that basic analogies, even if a bit dramatic for the sake of an argument, and some straightforward abstractions are so completely lost on you that you're convinced they're totally irrelevant DOES however make me feel smarter than you.
 
I understand your pointless analogies, I just don't see a point to dwindle on with trying too damn hard to prove your own beliefs over others, its just well... really depressing.
 
How about everyone stops molesting kids? Only about 4% of all active priests between 1950 and 2002 were even accused of abuse - a rate lower than other males in the general population.

http://www.themediareport.com/fast-facts/

Other reports stating the Catholic child abuse tragedy has been blown out of proportion.

http://www.newsweek.com/priests-commit-no-more-abuse-other-males-70625http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/16/AR2010041602026.html

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2010/mar/11/catholic-abuse-priests

Why isn't there more media exposure towards sexual abuse by teachers? Almost 10% of students are targets of educator sexual misconduct. Statistically speaking, parent's should be more worried about sending their kids to school than to church.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2012/02/is_sexual_abuse_in_schools_very_common_.html

http://www.hofstra.edu/pdf/about/administration/provost/hofhrz/hofhrz_s03_shakeshaft.pdf

I can't speak for the Catholic church as I am not Catholic, but all the churches I've been involved with have been incredibly careful with their money with some of it going to building maintenance and staff salaries, but with lots going to local social projects (shelters, inner city projects, etc) and international projects (schools, orphanages, clinics, water projects, social justice projects, etc).
 
first of all 10% of the kids in my school were not targets of educator sexual misconduct, that statistic is wrong, and you see a story about a teacher banging a student every month.
 
Obviously, the coverups are inexcusable, but its not like sexual assault only occurs in the Catholic Church, it, unfortunately, happens everywhere.
 
I get your point. But these men are respected leaders of a catholic church that preaches about equality and respect for human rights. If one fucks up it casts a shadow on the whole church.

Also doing a quick google search, it said that there was about 400,000 priests in the world in 2005. 4% of that number is pretty high. Granted the number might of been a lot lower in 1950-2002, but still, me personally, I can't stand by a church that has this amount of corruption inside of it.

 
The “crisis” of clerical sexual abuse in the United States was time-specific. The incidence of abuse spiked in the late 1960s and began to recede dramatically in the mid-1980s. In 2010, seven credible cases of abuse were reported in a church that numbers over 65 million adherents.

Abusers were a tiny minority of Catholic priests. Some 4 percent of Catholic priests in active ministry in the United States were accused of abuse between the 1950s and 2002. There is not a shred of evidence indicating that priests abuse young people at rates higher than do people in the rest of society. On the contrary: Most sexual abuse takes place within families. The John Jay study concludes that, in 2001, whereas five young people in 100,000 may have been abused by a priest, the average rate of abuse throughout the United States was 134 for every 100,000 young people. The sexual abuse of the young is a widespread and horrific societal problem; it is by no means uniquely, or principally, a Catholic problem, or a specifically priestly problem.

From:

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/267600/priests-abuse-and-meltdown-culture-george-weigel

I get that you don't want to have anything do with the church and that is just fine. What about family? Shouldn't that be held in equally high regard as the church? Family members are easily the worst offenders with uncles/cousins (18%), stepdads (12%), male siblings/bio fathers (10%), boyfriends of bio mom (9%), grandfathers/stepgrandfathers (7%) (http://www.catholicleague.org/sexual-abuse-in-social-context-clergy-and-other-professionals/). I know that reference is from a Catholic website, but I've seen similarly high stats through out different research projects in university.

If you are a child, you are more than twice as likely to be sexually abused by your brother than a priest.

I'm not trying to excuse the Catholic church for trying to cover up the abuse inflicted by a very few of it's members, but it shouldn't be omitted that it's only a very few. Still horrific. Still tragic. Absolutely no excuse for it.
 
You're missing the entire point it still happens, it could be 4% it could be 90% that doesn't change the fact that it still happens in some churches. So I really don't see the point that you're trying to make, of course we all know priests aren't the majority of people abusing children.
 
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