For the people who are doubting global warming

it would take one hell of a lot of defrosting to relaease 2059x the current amount:

(methane (CH4) is pretty overrated, there is 0.00017% of it in the troposphere, true, it is 30X more potent a greenhouse gas than CO2 but there is 2058x more CO2 in the troposphere)
 
StartFragment Your information came from an email. If we’re going to believe that information then I suppose we should also believe that Barack Obama is a Muslim and John McCain never actually served in the war. I mean, those came in emails right?[/list] 2. Fistpounding rhetoric? That’s some great world selection there. Way to make mesound King Kong stepping on innocent by standers. Apparently the folks thatissue that little thing called the Nobel Prize didn’t think Al Gore was anattention whore but someone who finally could reach the public. 3. Cavemen’s campfires? Really? You’re going to compare theburning of fossil fuels to campfires? Are you serious? Really?4. That’s cool you used to sit on debates when gas went from.35 to .70 a gallon forty years ago. When my parents were in school they wereafraid of a nuclear holocaust and hid under their desks in case the Russianscame. Hindsight is 20-20 buddy. J5. Peace and Love, man. The hippie generation was where it’sat, man. Please. You’re so right, man. We need to do something, man. Let’s gowear a tye-dye and listen to Jerry play some crunchy tunes, man.It’s fun to stereotype right? I hope you had no problem withmy little on above seeing how you had no problem accusing me of being an“articulate Harvard type.” You’ve met me before and I hope you’re notmisremembering our encounters because of an acid flashback (one more stereotypefor good measure). So what? I’m articulate. I don’t believe that makes me a badperson and I’ll go on record to say there’s no way my words are meant to be“fear mongering.” Your father went to Vanderbilt and yet you accuse me of being an "articulate Harvard type?" Hey kids, here's a lesson from an "articulate Harvard type": This is called a double-standard. It baffles me you pick and choose what to believe is factand that your thoughts on global climate change are so different from theindustry I know you love so dearly. Even if there’s a slight chance we can slowdown the change in order to sustain our current style of life, wouldn’t you tryit? This isn’t a problem for your generation but one for yourson and mine’s. I’m proud to be on this “soapbox.” It’s the same “soapbox” yourparents and our grandparents stood on to get across a message that the world isin trouble and we have to do something about it. I guess recognizing problemsand fighting for a solution skips a generation. Please excuse me if I’m being a “fist pounding fear monger”again. I haven’t yet murdered someone today with my fierce Harvard rhetoric. EndFragment
 
^ I copied and pasted that from word so please excuse the lack of spaces. I'm at work and trying to hide my flame war with Papasteeze.
 
And to anyone not involved in this scuffle, Mr. Papasteeze and I are pretty good buddies when we're around each other. :-)

n23502775_31140370_3429.jpg
 
haha, the global warming debate is one that won't be solved until global warming "ends" or we all burn to death... glad to see friends can still hold healthy no-holds-barred debates though !
 
werd! I love a good debate. and yes I consider Mike a very good friend and I think the world of him related to the ski industry and he knows that! However I am betting that he has also seen Champ in his back yard too! I'll reply more later in spite of this being a played topic. good stuff.
 
well said man. a lot of people just think it will go away and they dont have to do anything. the truth is it wont go away unless everyone gets off their butts and does something about it. Reduce Reuse Recycle. This is a great way to start
 
read this

Phil Chapman | April 23, 2008

THE scariest photo I have seen on the internet is www.spaceweather.com where you will find a real-time image of the sun from the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory, located in deep space at the equilibrium point between solar and terrestrial gravity.

What is scary about the picture is that there is only one tiny sunspot.

Disconcerting as it may be to true believers in global warming, the average temperature on Earth has remained steady or slowly declined during the past decade, despite the continued increase in the atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide, and now the global temperature is falling precipitously.

All four agencies that track Earth's temperature (the Hadley Climate Research Unit in Britain, the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York, the Christy group at the University of Alabama, and Remote Sensing Systems Inc in California) report that it cooled by about 0.7C in 2007. This is the fastest temperature change in the instrumental record and it puts us back where we were in 1930. If the temperature does not soon recover, we will have to conclude that global warming is over.

There is also plenty of anecdotal evidence that 2007 was exceptionally cold. It snowed in Baghdad for the first time in centuries, the winter in China was simply terrible and the extent of Antarctic sea ice in the austral winter was the greatest on record since James Cook discovered the place in 1770.

It is generally not possible to draw conclusions about climatic trends from events in a single year, so I would normally dismiss this cold snap as transient, pending what happens in the next few years.

This is where SOHO comes in. The sunspot number follows a cycle of somewhat variable length, averaging 11 years. The most recent minimum was in March last year. The new cycle, No.24, was supposed to start soon after that, with a gradual build-up in sunspot numbers.

It didn't happen. The first sunspot appeared in January this year and lasted only two days. A tiny spot appeared last Monday but vanished within 24 hours. Another little spot appeared this Monday. Pray that there will be many more, and soon.

The reason this matters is that there is a close correlation between variations in the sunspot cycle and Earth's climate. The previous time a cycle was delayed like this was in the Dalton Minimum, an especially cold period that lasted several decades from 1790.

Northern winters became ferocious: in particular, the rout of Napoleon's Grand Army during the retreat from Moscow in 1812 was at least partly due to the lack of sunspots.

That the rapid temperature decline in 2007 coincided with the failure of cycle No.24 to begin on schedule is not proof of a causal connection but it is cause for concern.

It is time to put aside the global warming dogma, at least to begin contingency planning about what to do if we are moving into another little ice age, similar to the one that lasted from 1100 to 1850.

There is no doubt that the next little ice age would be much worse than the previous one and much more harmful than anything warming may do. There are many more people now and we have become dependent on a few temperate agricultural areas, especially in the US and Canada. Global warming would increase agricultural output, but global cooling will decrease it.

Millions will starve if we do nothing to prepare for it (such as planning changes in agriculture to compensate), and millions more will die from cold-related diseases.

There is also another possibility, remote but much more serious. The Greenland and Antarctic ice cores and other evidence show that for the past several million years, severe glaciation has almost always afflicted our planet.

The bleak truth is that, under normal conditions, most of North America and Europe are buried under about 1.5km of ice. This bitterly frigid climate is interrupted occasionally by brief warm interglacials, typically lasting less than 10,000 years.

The interglacial we have enjoyed throughout recorded human history, called the Holocene, began 11,000 years ago, so the ice is overdue. We also know that glaciation can occur quickly: the required decline in global temperature is about 12C and it can happen in 20 years.

The next descent into an ice age is inevitable but may not happen for another 1000 years. On the other hand, it must be noted that the cooling in 2007 was even faster than in typical glacial transitions. If it continued for 20 years, the temperature would be 14C cooler in 2027.

By then, most of the advanced nations would have ceased to exist, vanishing under the ice, and the rest of the world would be faced with a catastrophe beyond imagining.

Australia may escape total annihilation but would surely be overrun by millions of refugees. Once the glaciation starts, it will last 1000 centuries, an incomprehensible stretch of time.

If the ice age is coming, there is a small chance that we could prevent or at least delay the transition, if we are prepared to take action soon enough and on a large enough scale.

For example: We could gather all the bulldozers in the world and use them to dirty the snow in Canada and Siberia in the hope of reducing the reflectance so as to absorb more warmth from the sun.

We also may be able to release enormous floods of methane (a potent greenhouse gas) from the hydrates under the Arctic permafrost and on the continental shelves, perhaps using nuclear weapons to destabilise the deposits.

We cannot really know, but my guess is that the odds are at least 50-50 that we will see significant cooling rather than warming in coming decades.

The probability that we are witnessing the onset of a real ice age is much less, perhaps one in 500, but not totally negligible.

All those urging action to curb global warming need to take off the blinkers and give some thought to what we should do if we are facing global cooling instead.

It will be difficult for people to face the truth when their reputations, careers, government grants or hopes for social change depend on global warming, but the fate of civilisation may be at stake.

In the famous words of Oliver Cromwell, "I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken."

Phil Chapman is a geophysicist and astronautical engineer who lives in San Francisco. He was the first Australian to become a NASA astronaut.

sick it global warming

there are much bigger problems. Being close to an ice age, and/or having global famines due to cold weather will do much more damage than sea levels rising 1 foot.

 
I hate these thread until someone posts a new idea...thanks ATLSkier for breaking the cycle here
 
BTW

Global warming could be a huge scam. When you read about new evidence and see the word model, well start asking for true data. Scientists can make models of pretty much anything, and many of them are not getting hard evidence through field work and receiving true data. Many scientists receive federal funding if they produce a model or other paper or statement saying humans are causing global warming and/or its getting worse. If everyone thinks we are causing global warming, no one cares if there is a "green tax" or other tax to make up for global warming or a carbon footprint. The goverment makes money. While the part about taxes and the goverment might not the strongest evidence, scientists are just relying on models instead of data and the goverment does give them funding for their statements about global warming worsening.

sparknotes. Scientists use models(which can say anything) instead of true data. The government gives them funding for producing statments or models about global warming worsening or human caused global warming.

 
agreed..

I used to have a short version that went something along the lines that melting icecaps leads to changing of the gulf stream which will then lead to more global cooling.
 
whether or not the issue of global warming is true or false it can never be a bad thing that our world is being more environmentally friendly.
 
There is also the possibility that global dimming have masked the effect of "global warming". Like the earth's temperature could have been diminished in the past few decades due to global dimming which could have hidden earth's true temperature. The rise in temperature we're seeing is probably due to this being earth's actual temperature without global dimming (it's been on a decline and reversed into a brightening trend). It's a possibility that the lack of aerosol particles in the air have raised the average temperature due to more sunlight reaching earth. The temperature we're starting to see now is possibly earth's true temperature and nothing due to pollution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_dimming
 
this is so weak.

global warming "Activists" need to stop getting their information from sensationalist media websites. the media wants your attention and then twist and blow shit out of proportion in order to get it. go do some real research on the topic, read scientific papers that have been written in support of and against.

it is annoying to see the same arguments coming up again and again.

the world has been much colder than it is now, the world has been much hotter than it is now. humanity can't expect the earth to stop changing just because we are comfortable with how things are and have established our way of life at this certain point in time.

Yes we need to treat the planet better and pollute less but we also need to lay off all of the global warming bullshit.

 
I'm going to go with climate change too because if the world ends up going into an ice age i can still claim im right ;)
 
Technically yes. However, Al Gore's (not all his, but he put himself in the spotlight) propaganda has called it global warming. When a lot of people attack global warming, they are attacking Al Gore's version of it. Climate change is looking at everything, not just the "OMGZ Teh humanz r meltin teh ice capzz!!1!!eleven!!"
 
BINGO! Thats the one.. Very good reading for those that want some thought provoking reading.

So yeah the climate has been changing ever so slightly and the short term observations are that avg temps are rising. The longer term is that we are warming up from a cold spell from the late 1700 and that we are just on the edge of entering into another cold spell. Which will happen very quickly.

No doubt that there is evidence that the polar ice caps are melting. The hypothesis is that yeah, all that fresh water is just going to reroute the earths natural heating vent ie. Gulf Stream and subsequently allow The Northeast US and Europe to go cold again as it did 200 years ago.

At the rate of melt, I think all will see a dramatic climate change occur and it IS NOT GOING TO BE STIFFLING HEAT - it is going to be far worse. It will be another mini Ice age.

An Ice age sounds cool for all us skiers. Trust that it won't be cool for the rest of the world.

 
+karma

But that being said. America is due for a shit season that will send everyone on this forum nuts about this topic
 
^ you know that 30% of ALL of Australia's emissions are from the sheep and cattle.

we're all goin down w/ the ship . . . it was fun while it lasted. . . bon voyage.

 
yeah i just want to keep skiing thats all care about.

but really i think we should cap some of the stuff such as emitions, getting better ways instead of fossil fuels i think its a win-win for every1
 
Why dont we just do what they did in the documentary and inconvenient truth-- make ice and dump it back into the water cooling it down. Probably would take a multi billion dollar investment for affects to be seen.
 
but 4 million Chinese and Indian african people burn coal everyday to power and heat their homes... so, nothing you say matters. Oh and Global Warming is a farce, human CO2 etc doesnt make a dent compared to .... oh fuck it, this is just a joke, stop being a headline reader/ doom predictor. The world is going to be fine and your winters are safe.
 
agreed. I hope global warming is imaginary. I figure it's more probable that global warming is a leftist conspiracy, than that the average person will significantly alter their lifestyle in the spirit of the greater good. Let's face it...nascar and moto x will always be more popular than skiing.
 
im not going to pretend i know everything about climate change but i do know that a)glaciers are shrinking, but others are growing so dont fucking say that all the glaciers are melting and b)its a good thing that everybody thinks that people are responsible for climate change because it will clean up (eventually) some of our dirty habits that do hurt the environment. climate change. yes. "the inconvenient truth". no.
 
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