FDA vs. Beer manufacturers and farmers.

Mr.Huck

Active member
Not sure is you are following this, but it sucks and would probably mean that your favorite microbrew would go up to $40 for a six pack. Beer manufacturers and farmers engage in one of the most functional means of recycling. The "spent" grain goes to feed dairy cows. It helps beer makers and farmers keep their cost low and is a win for everyone. So now the Food and Drug Administration is trying to step in and make the spent grain be dried, packaged and converted into essentially "Purina Cattle Chow". The costs for brewers and dairy farmers will go up enormously. There is no logical reason I have seen why this is necessary. Obviously, I am not a fan of how much more the government is invading our lives recently, but this goes way too far. When you start messing with my O'dell's 90 Schilling, there will be violence.

6801731384_aa44e1ae7b.jpg

http://reason.com/blog/2014/03/28/fda-new-rules-on-spent-grains-for-farms
 
12951665:theBearJew said:
Well that sucks. This have anything to do with the cows in Nevada?

No, this is a completely different example of useless bureaucrats attempting to justify their existence.
 
And this is why we have lobbying in Congress. FDA is trying to flex its muscles. I'd be extremely surprised if prices increase more than a dollar or two.
 
im going to be seriously pissed if i can no longer afford decent micro's and have to go back to drinking genessee/pbr
 
Haven't been following it but if that's what's going on it's not surprising.

Also I can almost guarantee it has nothing to do with caring about the cattle and everything to do with the FDA showing how strong they are.

I mean places were feeding dead cattle to cattle and shit like that. I really doubt they care if the cattle enjoy their meal.

Our government is always going after small business or anything that doesn't conform to everything they wish.
 
With the amazing influx of interest/progression the craft brew market has seen in the last decade this would be a terrible set back to some very awesome growth in the industry...god damn travesty
 
"Now, the FDA is clarifying its intentions—saying that the law is not meant to require spent grains be dried and pre-packaged—and plans to update its proposal.

FDA To Revise Its Plan

On Friday, the FDA said in an e-mailed statement to Twin Cities Business that, after soliciting comments on its proposed rule and hearing brewers' concerns, it will propose "revised language" later this summer, at which point it will provide more details."
 
12951723:Barefootin_Fiend said:
"Now, the FDA is clarifying its intentions—saying that the law is not meant to require spent grains be dried and pre-packaged—and plans to update its proposal.

FDA To Revise Its Plan

On Friday, the FDA said in an e-mailed statement to Twin Cities Business that, after soliciting comments on its proposed rule and hearing brewers' concerns, it will propose "revised language" later this summer, at which point it will provide more details."

That's awesome. I was hoping they'd feel the pressure. Where did you see that?
 
the brewery I worked at would put spent grains in garbage cans on the loading dock, and at the end of the day small business and locals would come collect it for bird food and cattle food. So at least my beer wont be effected.
 
Total bullshit. I love my craft beer and I'm already paying $10+ for a sixer. Fuck the FDA. They should be dealing with more important shit, like crazy ass side effects from the "medicines" they pass of to drs and whatnot. You have an ear infection, take some meds and next thing you know you're pissing out of your ass and lost your eyesight. This is just plain stupid.
 
12951887:yelsel said:
Total bullshit. I love my craft beer and I'm already paying $10+ for a sixer. Fuck the FDA. They should be dealing with more important shit, like crazy ass side effects from the "medicines" they pass of to drs and whatnot. You have an ear infection, take some meds and next thing you know you're pissing out of your ass and lost your eyesight. This is just plain stupid.

but your ear infection is gone. and now they can write you more meds for the new problems
 
I can't help but feel big beer is behind this somehow, cough $$ cough.

It's also a shame because many breweries I've visited, big and small, mention spent grain and farmers. It seems to be a pretty nice relationship.
 
12951887:yelsel said:
Total bullshit. I love my craft beer and I'm already paying $10+ for a sixer. Fuck the FDA. They should be dealing with more important shit, like crazy ass side effects from the "medicines" they pass of to drs and whatnot. You have an ear infection, take some meds and next thing you know you're pissing out of your ass and lost your eyesight. This is just plain stupid.

Why would they go against the pharmaceutical companies? Those companies make shit tons of money which is why the government will do anything for them.

CREAM
 
12951887:yelsel said:
You have an ear infection, take some meds and next thing you know you're pissing out of your ass and lost your eyesight.

Damn!!!! Wear can I score some of that?!?!?!
 
12951676:Mr.Huck said:
No, this is a completely different example of useless bureaucrats attempting to justify their existence.

The reason for their existence is so you have an existence to complain about their existence

BAM
 
12952251:Scaredwhiteboy said:
If this only raises the price of microbrews, I would be ecstatic. Fuck those hipsters.

You're sooo provocative man. I wish I could be edgy like you.
 
why wouldn't the costs carry over to the cattle industry instead? seriously fuck any beer manufacturers that participate in that disgusting industry. fuck animal abusers like mr huck.
 
12951887:yelsel said:
Total bullshit. I love my craft beer and I'm already paying $10+ for a sixer. Fuck the FDA. They should be dealing with more important shit, like crazy ass side effects from the "medicines" they pass of to drs and whatnot. You have an ear infection, take some meds and next thing you know you're pissing out of your ass and lost your eyesight. This is just plain stupid.

Just going to step in here to point out that the FDA is moving to do this because what we use to grow our food is sorta important. You do remember that the whole BSE/ mad cow thing was caused by grinding up sick animals and feeding them back to our livestock, I wouldn't be so quick to say 'ah, fuck em.'

That being said, FDA y u no tax sugar but tax beer?
 
12951940:Microcosm said:
I can't help but feel big beer is behind this somehow, cough $$ cough.

It's also a shame because many breweries I've visited, big and small, mention spent grain and farmers. It seems to be a pretty nice relationship.

I feel like this is a real possibility. The big 10 (Or whatever you have in the states) seem to be taking a real hit from the micro brew market and most are coming out with off piste styles of beer in order to combat it. I'm not familiar with the FDA, although I can see this being a real possibility.
 
12952363:Blake.P said:
arent you like 16?

14 actually. I'm almost a sophomore.

12952407:DeebieSkeebies said:
whats it matter to you? you get ripped off by your booze hookup already.

I pay $15 for a 30 of Hamm's ($12 with can deposit). I'm not getting ripped off. People who are getting ripped off are the retards who pay extra for "craft microbrews" just so that they can act like they are more cultured or sophisticated.
 
tired of these fucking piece of shit lobbyists who I assume are working for millercoors or budweiser trying to take a shit on the little guy.
 
12952395:DarthVader said:
Just going to step in here to point out that the FDA is moving to do this because what we use to grow our food is sorta important. You do remember that the whole BSE/ mad cow thing was caused by grinding up sick animals and feeding them back to our livestock, I wouldn't be so quick to say 'ah, fuck em.'

That being said, FDA y u no tax sugar but tax beer?

Good point Rowen. That's the problem with government agencies in general. They are great at putting out fires, but when there aren't any fires to put out, they go out and start some just so they can have something to do.
 
12952508:Scaredwhiteboy said:
14 actually. I'm almost a sophomore.

I pay $15 for a 30 of Hamm's ($12 with can deposit). I'm not getting ripped off. People who are getting ripped off are the retards who pay extra for "craft microbrews" just so that they can act like they are more cultured or sophisticated.

I would agree if there wasn't a difference in the beer but you're full of shit.

If I want a good beer maybe I'll drink a smuttynose or a heady topper, if I want something cheap I'll probably grab some PBR or something. I'd rather drink something because it's good than because there's a shit ton of ads on TV.

Hell, miller doesn't even try to fix their beer, they just reinvent to container. Brilliant marketing but I'm not going to buy.

IMO a lot of the people bitching about cost pay for over priced beer. A pack of keystone is 3.67 at the store near my house, coors light costs about 7. Granted the keystone is cheaper than other places it's still massively cheaper than a similar product. You may be getting less in quantity but many craft berrrrrrrs have a higher alcohol content than your standard bullshit 'murcan beverage.

If you're going to the bar then it really doesn't matter. If it's going to cost a buck more for a beer that isn't shit it's completely worth it if you're spending 3 or 4 anyway.
 
12952444:timmi said:
I feel like this is a real possibility. The big 10 (Or whatever you have in the states) seem to be taking a real hit from the micro brew market and most are coming out with off piste styles of beer in order to combat it. I'm not familiar with the FDA, although I can see this being a real possibility.

The worst is these companies make beer that looks "craft" and is disguised under a different label. So the average consumer has no idea it's actually inbev/millercoors. The quality is definitely questionable when compared to real 'craft' and might put people off of venturing into other companies if they try it and conclude it's not much better.

Same goes for things like bud light platinum.. same beer, less watered down so it hits 6% alcohol. For a lot of people that's something 'special'. These big companies are absolutely starting to feel the effects of having increased competition. I'd have to dig up the link if anyone cares enough, but I was reading about how big beer sales are down, but prices were raised ever so slightly so their profits aren't falling. If that trend continues there will be a point where raising prices becomes difficult and their profits begin to fall.

They have so much money to spend they will be rallying in any way possible. From continuing with ridiculous advertisements and new bottle styles all the way to enforcing legislation that makes it difficult for small breweries.

12952569:theabortionator said:
I would agree if there wasn't a difference in the beer but you're full of shit.

If I want a good beer maybe I'll drink a smuttynose or a heady topper, if I want something cheap I'll probably grab some PBR or something. I'd rather drink something because it's good than because there's a shit ton of ads on TV.

Hell, miller doesn't even try to fix their beer, they just reinvent to container. Brilliant marketing but I'm not going to buy.

IMO a lot of the people bitching about cost pay for over priced beer. A pack of keystone is 3.67 at the store near my house, coors light costs about 7. Granted the keystone is cheaper than other places it's still massively cheaper than a similar product. You may be getting less in quantity but many craft berrrrrrrs have a higher alcohol content than your standard bullshit 'murcan beverage.

If you're going to the bar then it really doesn't matter. If it's going to cost a buck more for a beer that isn't shit it's completely worth it if you're spending 3 or 4 anyway.

It's not impossible to find craft six packs with more bang for your buck alcohol percentage than a six pack of whatever 4.2% macro.

I just bought a sixer of lagunitas undercover investigation shutdown. 9.7% a bottle. That's 2+ 4.2% beers right there, and it's not twice the price.

Of course I'll go out and buy a $15 bomber that's not even close to worth it if you're only trying to get drunk, but with the right eye craft beer can be very economical.. even to the college student.

Of course if you want to brag about how many beers you can put down.. well that 12% bomber is gonna kick your ass but then you've only had one beer so apparently you're a pussy ;)
 
12952444:timmi said:
I feel like this is a real possibility. The big 10 (Or whatever you have in the states) seem to be taking a real hit from the micro brew market and most are coming out with off piste styles of beer in order to combat it. I'm not familiar with the FDA, although I can see this being a real possibility.

The worst is these companies make beer that looks "craft" and is disguised under a different label. So the average consumer has no idea it's actually inbev/millercoors. The quality is definitely questionable when compared to real 'craft' and might put people off of venturing into other companies if they try it and conclude it's not much better.

Same goes for things like bud light platinum.. same beer, less watered down so it hits 6% alcohol. For a lot of people that's something 'special'. These big companies are absolutely starting to feel the effects of having increased competition. I'd have to dig up the link if anyone cares enough, but I was reading about how big beer sales are down, but prices were raised ever so slightly so their profits aren't falling. If that trend continues there will be a point where raising prices becomes difficult and their profits begin to fall.

They have so much money to spend they will be rallying in any way possible. From continuing with ridiculous advertisements and new bottle styles all the way to enforcing legislation that makes it difficult for small breweries.

12952569:theabortionator said:
I would agree if there wasn't a difference in the beer but you're full of shit.

If I want a good beer maybe I'll drink a smuttynose or a heady topper, if I want something cheap I'll probably grab some PBR or something. I'd rather drink something because it's good than because there's a shit ton of ads on TV.

Hell, miller doesn't even try to fix their beer, they just reinvent to container. Brilliant marketing but I'm not going to buy.

IMO a lot of the people bitching about cost pay for over priced beer. A pack of keystone is 3.67 at the store near my house, coors light costs about 7. Granted the keystone is cheaper than other places it's still massively cheaper than a similar product. You may be getting less in quantity but many craft berrrrrrrs have a higher alcohol content than your standard bullshit 'murcan beverage.

If you're going to the bar then it really doesn't matter. If it's going to cost a buck more for a beer that isn't shit it's completely worth it if you're spending 3 or 4 anyway.

It's not impossible to find craft six packs with more bang for your buck alcohol percentage than a six pack of whatever 4.2% macro.

I just bought a sixer of lagunitas undercover investigation shutdown. 9.7% a bottle. That's 2+ 4.2% beers right there, and it's not twice the price.

Of course I'll go out and buy a $15 bomber that's not even close to worth it if you're only trying to get drunk, but with the right eye craft beer can be very economical.. even to the college student.

Of course if you want to brag about how many beers you can put down.. well that 12% bomber is gonna kick your ass but then you've only had one beer so apparently you're a pussy ;)
 
12952632:Microcosm said:
The worst is these companies make beer that looks "craft" and is disguised under a different label. So the average consumer has no idea it's actually inbev/millercoors. The quality is definitely questionable when compared to real 'craft' and might put people off of venturing into other companies if they try it and conclude it's not much better.

Same goes for things like bud light platinum.. same beer, less watered down so it hits 6% alcohol. For a lot of people that's something 'special'. These big companies are absolutely starting to feel the effects of having increased competition. I'd have to dig up the link if anyone cares enough, but I was reading about how big beer sales are down, but prices were raised ever so slightly so their profits aren't falling. If that trend continues there will be a point where raising prices becomes difficult and their profits begin to fall.

They have so much money to spend they will be rallying in any way possible. From continuing with ridiculous advertisements and new bottle styles all the way to enforcing legislation that makes it difficult for small breweries.

I'm going to tread lightly here, because I work for the marketing agency that does nearly all of labatt (Anhueser Busch) promotions across Canada.

Yes they are taking a hit. But at the same time beer sales are down across the grid.

I think that there is a misconception that all microbreweries make good beer. I've had some that have honestly been crap. Muskoka Brewery for one up in Canada.

I will go against the grain and say that I genuinely think that Bud Light Platinum is a good beer (For what it's meant to be). High alcohol content, super smooth and drinkable, still comparatively low calorie. Budweiser Crown is the same deal, not my type of beer typically as it's a bit sweet but a lot of people like it and I think it's a pretty well made beer.

But as for the stuff that is actually directed at the Microbrew market - Alexander kieths is a massive Canadian beer brand, and they have in the past year or so come out with their Hop Series. Which one of the three is in my opinion one of the best beers on the market today. They managed to get hop flavour without the bitterness and create a very balanced beer that had a great flavour.

I'm really not familiar with American beer other than what we've got up here, but that is my take on it.

There are a few brands that you can look up that are in AB's portfolio that will surprise you though. Ones that the general conception is that they are independent.

Back to the original point, I can't say much about what we are doing in terms of promotions but I will say that there have been huge pushes on bud crown lately and they do have the money to throw around.
 
12953145:timmi said:
I'm going to tread lightly here, because I work for the marketing agency that does nearly all of labatt (Anhueser Busch) promotions across Canada.

Yes they are taking a hit. But at the same time beer sales are down across the grid.

I think that there is a misconception that all microbreweries make good beer. I've had some that have honestly been crap. Muskoka Brewery for one up in Canada.

I will go against the grain and say that I genuinely think that Bud Light Platinum is a good beer (For what it's meant to be). High alcohol content, super smooth and drinkable, still comparatively low calorie. Budweiser Crown is the same deal, not my type of beer typically as it's a bit sweet but a lot of people like it and I think it's a pretty well made beer.

But as for the stuff that is actually directed at the Microbrew market - Alexander kieths is a massive Canadian beer brand, and they have in the past year or so come out with their Hop Series. Which one of the three is in my opinion one of the best beers on the market today. They managed to get hop flavour without the bitterness and create a very balanced beer that had a great flavour.

I'm really not familiar with American beer other than what we've got up here, but that is my take on it.

There are a few brands that you can look up that are in AB's portfolio that will surprise you though. Ones that the general conception is that they are independent.

Back to the original point, I can't say much about what we are doing in terms of promotions but I will say that there have been huge pushes on bud crown lately and they do have the money to throw around.

Unless you're a total hipster you know that all craft beer isn't good. I saw a 6pack of davidson brothers ipa at the store near me. Was only 7.50. Worst beer I ever drank. Only finished it days later after even the keystone and other beers had run out.

And 6% isn't high alcohol content. Pretty standard outside of the normal beers like other bud, miller, coors, etc. That said I doubt it's a good beer. Haven't tried it don't feel like spending money on it.

I mean it all depends on personal preferences so technically there isn't a wrong choice but I feel like marketing plays a big factor in what beers people think are great.
 
12953214:theabortionator said:
Unless you're a total hipster you know that all craft beer isn't good. I saw a 6pack of davidson brothers ipa at the store near me. Was only 7.50. Worst beer I ever drank. Only finished it days later after even the keystone and other beers had run out.

And 6% isn't high alcohol content. Pretty standard outside of the normal beers like other bud, miller, coors, etc. That said I doubt it's a good beer. Haven't tried it don't feel like spending money on it.

I mean it all depends on personal preferences so technically there isn't a wrong choice but I feel like marketing plays a big factor in what beers people think are great.

A huge factor. I literally tell people beer is good as they're drinking it, and they agree with me. "Taste how smooth this is" wow it is smooth! "Taste the golden caramel malt" wow that malt is delicious. I always joke that I won't drink a beer that sponsors a racecar.

and that is why I prefaced the platinum by saying it's good for what it's meant to be. It's meant to be a high alcohol (again, comparatively) beer that is smooth, easy to drink, and not really off putting to anyone. To which I would say it hit its mark dead on. Something you can drink on your dock in the summer or in your yuppie ass condo in the city (Which I am currently doing).

And you're completely right. Beer snobs and snobs of any variety get this impulse like they can tell you what you're drinking is wrong. It's a drink. I am free to drink whatever beer I choose.

I will say however that people buy the beer they associate with themselves more often than the taste, because the beer in your hand can say a lot about who you are as a person. Perhaps even more than the car you drive or the brands you wear. Even if you say to yourself "no I don't I buy it based on taste alone" on some level, no you don't.
 
12952569:theabortionator said:
You may be getting less in quantity but many craft berrrrrrrs have a higher alcohol content than your standard bullshit 'murcan beverage.

mmm i had a stone black ipa that was 8.7% the other day. its just so much better than drinking shitty beer
 
12952508:Scaredwhiteboy said:
14 actually. I'm almost a sophomore.

I pay $15 for a 30 of Hamm's ($12 with can deposit). I'm not getting ripped off. People who are getting ripped off are the retards who pay extra for "craft microbrews" just so that they can act like they are more cultured or sophisticated.

Do you have taste buds? I'll stick with the rich and wide variety craft brews provide while usually natural ingredients, over that shit anheuser busch pushes as "beer".
 
12953510:TheBigApple said:
Do you have taste buds? I'll stick with the rich and wide variety craft brews provide while usually natural ingredients, over that shit anheuser busch pushes as "beer".

But they don't advertise in the superbowl or have billboards everywhere. Pretty obvious sign that craft beers suck and bud is king.
 
12951887:yelsel said:
Total bullshit. I love my craft beer and I'm already paying $10+ for a sixer. Fuck the FDA. They should be dealing with more important shit, like crazy ass side effects from the "medicines" they pass of to drs and whatnot. You have an ear infection, take some meds and next thing you know you're pissing out of your ass and lost your eyesight. This is just plain stupid.

Seriously though. Yesterday at work we had this guy come in after taking hardcore antibiotics (prescribed by his dentist) for getting his teeth pulled. He ended up having C. difficile pancolitis.
 
12953145:timmi said:
I'm going to tread lightly here, because I work for the marketing agency that does nearly all of labatt (Anhueser Busch) promotions across Canada.

Yes they are taking a hit. But at the same time beer sales are down across the grid.

I think that there is a misconception that all microbreweries make good beer. I've had some that have honestly been crap. Muskoka Brewery for one up in Canada.

I will go against the grain and say that I genuinely think that Bud Light Platinum is a good beer (For what it's meant to be). High alcohol content, super smooth and drinkable, still comparatively low calorie. Budweiser Crown is the same deal, not my type of beer typically as it's a bit sweet but a lot of people like it and I think it's a pretty well made beer.

But as for the stuff that is actually directed at the Microbrew market - Alexander kieths is a massive Canadian beer brand, and they have in the past year or so come out with their Hop Series. Which one of the three is in my opinion one of the best beers on the market today. They managed to get hop flavour without the bitterness and create a very balanced beer that had a great flavour.

I'm really not familiar with American beer other than what we've got up here, but that is my take on it.

There are a few brands that you can look up that are in AB's portfolio that will surprise you though. Ones that the general conception is that they are independent.

Back to the original point, I can't say much about what we are doing in terms of promotions but I will say that there have been huge pushes on bud crown lately and they do have the money to throw around.

You're right about beer sales across the board, but I think they also realize they have reason to be proactive about craft beer. They're certainly not sitting around waiting for things to just work out.

You're not gonna like me for this, but honestly I feel marketing is generally bullshit. Sorry man. It's creative, it's smart, it's deceptive.. it's crap. For example, all the various cans and bottles accomplish one thing very well. It places (much) more product on the shelves. I can literally buy a macro lager in so many different formats.. 40s, 6 cans, 6 tallboy cans, 6 bottles, 12 cans, 12 bottles, 30 cans. I'm probably leaving shit out and I'm not even including the different shaped bottles or cans or any of the flavored variations. (Lime, etc.) When you line up all that beer in a store it will take up a significant portion of the wall. Consumers are bombarded by this huge display, and then they buy it. Marketing! Damn is it successful!

Compare that to a craft offering from your average brewery. If they're large enough they'll have a few different styles in glass 6 packs and possibly a few bombers. Some will have 12 packs, but most don't. Some have cans and bottles, but most only have one or the other. That's a pittance, that's nothing in shelf space.

I have nothing in particular against bud light. I still have a few in the fridge. As far as I'm aware there's no difference in bud light vs platinum other than alcohol content. And of course it's drinkable, it's a very light adjunct lager. I never said they're not good at making beer. They're just very limited* in what they can produce. These companies generally do one thing and one thing only. Their quality control is absolutely great, bud is bud no matter what. That's what people expect.

They're not going for out of the ordinary. So for the rest of us looking for something a bit more to tickle our taste buds, well there's everything else.

Moving on, yes there are craft beers that suck. I've thrown money at plenty of them. There are many beers I buy again, but very often I'm also buying something different. I've tried as many local beers as I can. There are those that weren't up to par. After I've worked through their lineup once I won't return, unless it's really good. I've come close to drain pouring some, even. You can look on beeradvocate if you'd like and I'm sure you'll find beers that many agree suck. Craft beers are subject to marketing too: barrel aged beers that weren't even good to begin with, unbalanced beers which have been hopped out the ass and are still not great. These breweries won't last forever. Craft brewers are in competition with each other, whether they would like to admit to it or not, and bad beer will be ultimately left behind.

That hop series you mentioned is not something I'd heard of, being in the US. It sounds like a good way for them to corner the IPA loving market. FYI look into the brewing process to learn about how adding hops at different times in the boil will change their characteristics. Typically hops added early in the boil will impart bitterness, while hops added mid to later will contribute more to taste and then aroma. I'd guess most if not every single brewery is utilizing this. Also there's dry hopping if you're interested in looking further into this.

I am aware of many abinbev/millercoors owned brands. Off the top of my head they bought out Hoegaarden and Goose Island, recently bought out Blue Point, have ties with Red Hook and Kona, and then there are 'brands' like Third Shift. No doubt I'm forgetting more. I think many beer geeks are aware of this.

*http://queencitydrinks.com/beer/beer-review-budweiser-project-12-plus-the-importance-of-yeast/

^ Here is an interesting article I found sometime back about Budweiser Project 12. Their head brewers were given the opportunity to brew a unique beer, but were limited to using Budweiser's single strain of yeast. The yeast they use in all Budweiser products. It really shows how they may be a creative bunch, but unfortunately are not able to make full use of available ingredients. Not to mention the cost that would come into play if they began to produce these beers. Twelve dollars for a Budweiser sixer? That sure as hell is not their customer base.
 
12953298:timmi said:
beer that is smooth, easy to drink, and not really off putting to anyone.

Unoffensive is a word that often comes up. Depending on context it's as much of a compliment as it is a disparaging remark.

12953298:timmi said:
And you're completely right. Beer snobs and snobs of any variety get this impulse like they can tell you what you're drinking is wrong. It's a drink. I am free to drink whatever beer I choose.

I'll give you that. There's a line between inviting someone to try a beer unlike anything they've ever had and telling them what they like sucks.
 
12953752:Microcosm said:
You're right about beer sales across the board, but I think they also realize they have reason to be proactive about craft beer. They're certainly not sitting around waiting for things to just work out.

You're not gonna like me for this, but honestly I feel marketing is generally bullshit. Sorry man. It's creative, it's smart, it's deceptive.. it's crap. For example, all the various cans and bottles accomplish one thing very well. It places (much) more product on the shelves. I can literally buy a macro lager in so many different formats.. 40s, 6 cans, 6 tallboy cans, 6 bottles, 12 cans, 12 bottles, 30 cans. I'm probably leaving shit out and I'm not even including the different shaped bottles or cans or any of the flavored variations. (Lime, etc.) When you line up all that beer in a store it will take up a significant portion of the wall. Consumers are bombarded by this huge display, and then they buy it. Marketing! Damn is it successful!

Compare that to a craft offering from your average brewery. If they're large enough they'll have a few different styles in glass 6 packs and possibly a few bombers. Some will have 12 packs, but most don't. Some have cans and bottles, but most only have one or the other. That's a pittance, that's nothing in shelf space.

I have nothing in particular against bud light. I still have a few in the fridge. As far as I'm aware there's no difference in bud light vs platinum other than alcohol content. And of course it's drinkable, it's a very light adjunct lager. I never said they're not good at making beer. They're just very limited* in what they can produce. These companies generally do one thing and one thing only. Their quality control is absolutely great, bud is bud no matter what. That's what people expect.

They're not going for out of the ordinary. So for the rest of us looking for something a bit more to tickle our taste buds, well there's everything else.

Moving on, yes there are craft beers that suck. I've thrown money at plenty of them. There are many beers I buy again, but very often I'm also buying something different. I've tried as many local beers as I can. There are those that weren't up to par. After I've worked through their lineup once I won't return, unless it's really good. I've come close to drain pouring some, even. You can look on beeradvocate if you'd like and I'm sure you'll find beers that many agree suck. Craft beers are subject to marketing too: barrel aged beers that weren't even good to begin with, unbalanced beers which have been hopped out the ass and are still not great. These breweries won't last forever. Craft brewers are in competition with each other, whether they would like to admit to it or not, and bad beer will be ultimately left behind.

That hop series you mentioned is not something I'd heard of, being in the US. It sounds like a good way for them to corner the IPA loving market. FYI look into the brewing process to learn about how adding hops at different times in the boil will change their characteristics. Typically hops added early in the boil will impart bitterness, while hops added mid to later will contribute more to taste and then aroma. I'd guess most if not every single brewery is utilizing this. Also there's dry hopping if you're interested in looking further into this.

I am aware of many abinbev/millercoors owned brands. Off the top of my head they bought out Hoegaarden and Goose Island, recently bought out Blue Point, have ties with Red Hook and Kona, and then there are 'brands' like Third Shift. No doubt I'm forgetting more. I think many beer geeks are aware of this.

*http://queencitydrinks.com/beer/beer-review-budweiser-project-12-plus-the-importance-of-yeast/

^ Here is an interesting article I found sometime back about Budweiser Project 12. Their head brewers were given the opportunity to brew a unique beer, but were limited to using Budweiser's single strain of yeast. The yeast they use in all Budweiser products. It really shows how they may be a creative bunch, but unfortunately are not able to make full use of available ingredients. Not to mention the cost that would come into play if they began to produce these beers. Twelve dollars for a Budweiser sixer? That sure as hell is not their customer base.

I want to be fully clear on this. I am absolutely all for the craft beer market! I love craft beers and love trying different ones from all over the city. The whole proactive comment you were talking about is kinda what I do for a living, heh.

The keiths hop series is essentially defined as a bridge between the typical adjust lager and the craft beer market.

You were saying marketing is bullshit. I take no offence to that! I oddly enough love that marketing can be so influential yet for the most part intangible. It's what draws me to it.

As for my specific field of marketing- I do in store promotions. So I manage a team of people who set up booths in beer stores and get people excited for the beer. When I'm in field I can talk to someone face to face, give them a sample, explain the beer and the process used and find out what they do and don't like. And if the person says they are looking for something else and I know theres nothing in my portfolio to match I have absolutely no problem pointing them to a craft beer that I think they'll really like.

I will say that your concept of marketing is a bit simplistic, although I can tell that was purposeful. It comes down more so to identifying with a brand. Stella Artois cannot be served in anything but their flagship chalice, it's a decent pilsner but people don't buy it for that reason. They buy it for the glass that they can hold in their hand at the bar and let everyone know they didn't get the cheap stuff. That's an easy to explain example, but it's fairly true for all beers. Look at different demographics and they all drink pretty much the exact beer you would expect them to, with very little variation. Yes the merchandising side (shelf facing) does have a lot to do with it, but many beer stores in my area only have a menu on the wall to choose from and very little product on the stores floor, and still see the same results.

The brewing process is something I've got a working knowledge of, but been trying to find out more about. I've done a few tours and I've done some microbrews but there is so much to know. It also doesn't help that my other client is Diageo, so I need to have a working knowledge of pretty much all spirits as well.

Keiths hop series uses a dry hoping process. It's made to be an accessible beer to those who aren't accustomed to the more flavourful beers, but still pack a decent punch. Only roughly 20 IBU's, though. They're single hop ales and each has a very distinct taste.

As for your article I haven't had a chance to look over it yet, but that sounds like the same story that created Bud Crown. To my knowledge the brewmasters were just given free reigns and said make a beer. They ended up liking it and putting it into production.

One last thing, up here in canada a 6 pack costs 10-12 bucks minimum so we're paying out the ass no matter what. And I've read a fair bit on beer advocate, but the people on there come off as the most pretentious bastards ever. I read it almost as a satire in my own head a lot of the time.
 
I do have to say, and I'll probably be flamed for this, that I've tried micro brew after micro brew, and for me nothing is the same as cracking open an ice cold banquet beer. My roommate is a big time craft beer junkie and has fed me fantastic beer after fantastic beer -- from heady topper and the like. I do love a solid oatmeal stout from time to time and a trip to breweries is always fun (living in Philly I enjoy going to Yards and Victory). But for some reason regular old Coors will always be my ultimate temptress. You don't get to decide what your taste buds enjoy.

It's pretty annoying to me when people act all high and mighty to me when they see the case of Coors in my fridge telling me I like "piss water," etc. Look dude I enjoy it... I'm not some ignorant "I hate craft beers YEAH 'murrica guy." I just like the taste of Coors. So sue me.
 
12953510:TheBigApple said:
Do you have taste buds? I'll stick with the rich and wide variety craft brews provide while usually natural ingredients, over that shit anheuser busch pushes as "beer".

Yes, I also have the common sense to know that a beer doesn't taste better just because it costs more or was made by a small brewer.

People do the same thing with all cheap foods. They claim not to like it solely to appear more sophisticated and high-class. McDonald's and Hershey's chocolate get trashed by the majority of America, yet somehow they still manage to hold the largest market share in their industries. How can this be? Because the majority of the people who claim not to like their products do so for appearances only. Jim Gaffigan explains the phenomenon:
 
12953893:Funkadelic said:
I do have to say, and I'll probably be flamed for this, that I've tried micro brew after micro brew, and for me nothing is the same as cracking open an ice cold banquet beer. My roommate is a big time craft beer junkie and has fed me fantastic beer after fantastic beer -- from heady topper and the like. I do love a solid oatmeal stout from time to time and a trip to breweries is always fun (living in Philly I enjoy going to Yards and Victory). But for some reason regular old Coors will always be my ultimate temptress. You don't get to decide what your taste buds enjoy.

It's pretty annoying to me when people act all high and mighty to me when they see the case of Coors in my fridge telling me I like "piss water," etc. Look dude I enjoy it... I'm not some ignorant "I hate craft beers YEAH 'murrica guy." I just like the taste of Coors. So sue me.

How can you hate on heady topper? Maybe you gotta slow down and enjoy em. If you're playing pong or shotgunning beers probably not the way to go but I've never heard of anyone single out heady topper in a hate list before.

Maybe the heady topper got murdered on the long trip from northern VT to Philly. I still have my hopes for you not being a communist.
 
12953898:Scaredwhiteboy said:
Yes, I also have the common sense to know that a beer doesn't taste better just because it costs more or was made by a small brewer.

People do the same thing with all cheap foods. They claim not to like it solely to appear more sophisticated and high-class. McDonald's and Hershey's chocolate get trashed by the majority of America, yet somehow they still manage to hold the largest market share in their industries. How can this be? Because the majority of the people who claim not to like their products do so for appearances only. Jim Gaffigan explains the phenomenon:

Most people don't go to mcdonalds because it's the worlds best tasting food. They go because it's cheap as fuck. Also it's a long standing brand that is continually market up the ass. Kids meals and play places help to get kids in at a young age and boom you might just have a life long customer. Their stores are everywhere, they make sure to be open later than the next guy. Usually the only time I go to one is because I'm hungry as fuck and there's nothing else open. I sure as hell don't go there because they make the worlds best cheeseburger.
 
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