Yung_Gnarley
Active member
let's see em!
Ever seen a misty 12?
- Thread starter Yung_Gnarley
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Emma_Watson
Active member
i did one once on shredsauce
SofaKingSick
Active member
good question
i can't think of any right now..assuming you are talking single misty. wallisch's bio 12 in wallisch project comes to mind. that's a lot of spinning for a single so i think you'd have a hard time doing one that wasn't at least to the side enough to have people calling it a bio.
IMO bio is a stupid hair splitting distinction but that's a different conversation entirely
sorta surprised i can't remember seeing dumont ever do one, considering he was such a boss at misty 5 7 9 and 10
i can't think of any right now..assuming you are talking single misty. wallisch's bio 12 in wallisch project comes to mind. that's a lot of spinning for a single so i think you'd have a hard time doing one that wasn't at least to the side enough to have people calling it a bio.
IMO bio is a stupid hair splitting distinction but that's a different conversation entirely
sorta surprised i can't remember seeing dumont ever do one, considering he was such a boss at misty 5 7 9 and 10
YUNG_milksteAk
Active member
switch
In 2030 I saw a kid send one and this was right about the time that the ski community woke up to the fact that we are the keepers of mother N. Mostly all the snow had melted and he was one of the last real park rats, I told him not to do it, there wasn't enough snow! He said he'd do it for those before and after him, shouting Big Air Dave he dropped in and over rotated times 2 putting him somewhere way in the future. That future I don't want to know about but bless his soul he was an amazing skier and one hell of a time traveler.
SofaKingSick
Active member
13460755:T-Van said:
this is the only part of your response that is accurate
if anything a misty 12 would be analogous to a front flip 9, not 12, and it's completely possible-- there have been a fair amount of misty 10s thrown
13461080:Mr.noodle said:
Which is just to point out that a misty and a bio are really the same goddamn trick, just done a little differently...
Just like d-spin and cork 7 are the same trick, something all of the idiot teens on this site have never understood.
Underflip and cork 5...you guessed it. They are the same trick.
SofaKingSick
Active member
13461175:Sngl2th said:
13461176:Sngl2th said:
goddamn this guy is on point
Yung_Gnarley
Active member
ok well let's see a misty 10 at least haha
SofaKingSick
Active member
13461321:Yung_Gnarley said:
hmm, the one that came to mind was dumont in EDIAS but now that i look at it it's not really a misty, more a cork 10
at 1:09
i have to get back to work but all i could find was this (last trick)
https://www.newschoolers.com/watch/441427.1/Forward-Misty-----10-Screaming-Grab?c=1&o=3&t=6
im sure ive seen one though....
13461388:Titsandwich11 said:
Cork ten.
Vinicash did a bio 12 in the latest instabanger @ 2:57
http://www.slvsh.com/posts/57
McLS
Active member
13461175:Sngl2th said:
A trick is defined by how it looks. Granted that some will invert corks and bios more than others, the average underflip is very distinctive from a cork 5...so is a cork 7 to a dspin or rodeo. Misty and bios, to be fair, very few can do very lightly inverted "proper" bios, so I guess you can call most misty. If people came up with these names it's for a reason, and if you can't see that those 2 tricks look fucking different, then there's nothing i can do for you.
@1:14 (Twall always inverts his corks quite a lot, and the tail grab makes it look more inverted too, but still, different trick from the underflip)
Also, there is no such thing a underflip 5. an underflip is an underflip, you can take it to double and then it could become a dub underflip 5 (or more, but it would probably lean towards a rodeo in one of the flips). There are lincoln 5s, although I don't think I've ever seen one, but it would be on a different axis than a ro or underflip (more of a very inverted flat5)
SofaKingSick
Active member
13462154:McLS said:
it's subjective/semantics. his point, that i agree with, is that there isn't enough difference between bio/misty, e.g., for it to be called something else entirely, it's just splitting hairs
i use those terms... but my opinion is that theyre dumb
and an underflip IS an underflip 5, really, you just dont ever say it because there's no reason. some people will call certain 7s an underflip 7, but im definitely not one of those people (IMO it'd just be a type of cork 7 or something)
and there's def no such thing as a dub underflip 5. that would denote some sort of double flip that only added up to 5 total which is nonsense obviously. you could call some things a dub underflip if you wanted, but it'd at least be a 9 (and in the opinion of people like me, would just be a dub cork 9-- dub underflip is just more descriptive)
McLS
Active member
13462159:Titsandwich11 said:
Aaaah no offense but this drives me crazy. First, yes there is enough difference between the tricks. I mean you wouldn't call a bow and arrow a truck driver right? So don't call a cork a fucking rodeo. If you knew how to do the tricks you talk about (which I'm gonna assume you don't) you would realise that when you set a cork, you don't just set an underflip or a flat or a rodeo or a dspin. All those tricks have different sets. Now I'm all for personal tricks though, if you wanna invert your corks a lot, and make them look more similar to a dspin, fine by me, call em dspins if you want, but you're still setting as a cork. An easy way to see the flagrant difference between similar axis tricks is the head. Just look at the head, you'll see that it never has the same path in an underflip, cork, bio, misty...And if the head doesn't have the same path, a cork is gonna feel pretty different to an underflip to the rider. Of course often it's hard to say if that guy's trick is a cork, an underflip...but the point is, when you know what you're going for and know how to do it, 2 different tricks that you call too similar to your taste are gonna be very different. And that's why they have different names. Not to start fights with your friends while watching an edit.
Now onto the underflip 5. If you start forward, and land switch, that DOESN'T mean you did a 5. you heard of 180s right? A cork 5 is a 540 set off axis. An underflip is a 90 to uphill lincoln to 90 (in one flowy motion). So no, it's not a fucking 540. you can call it an underflip 180 if you want but that's just redondant, because underflip is a fucking 180 flip. Now on to the dubs. No, a dub underflip doesn't have to be a 9, if you do a 90 to lincoln to 180 to lincoln 90 that's a dub underflip 3. but most would just call it a dub underlfip cos fuck counting up all those 90° anyways. The reason a lot on NS can't grasp the fact that an overflip (different to misty, yes) isn't a forward flipped 540 but more like a gymnastic barani, or that a sw dub 9 can actually be a sw dub 180 if its a sw dub underflip with no spin between the 2 lincolns is because of comps mainly. Commentators and judge aren't gonna give more or less points for a sw dub underflip or a sw dub cork, they look similair, take the same amount of balls approximately (tbh a proper not entirely inverted sw dub cork is quite a but harder) so they're just gotta call it a 9 anyways. And we all no most commentators suck at trick naming too.
Fuck i'm sorry if I sounded pissed at you or anything, nothing personal, it just gets to me when someone can't see that there is obviously no 540° rotation in an underflip. Anyways, whenever you see it, we could always talk about rodeo 5 set pretz 1 and shit...I wonder if Vinny can always name his tricks xD
SofaKingSick
Active member
13462180:McLS said:
haha okay an undie is absolutely a 5. youre trying to talk down to me but you don't understand the most basic tenet of trick naming. the flip counts as a 360 and you add it to any spin you did. 90 + uphill lincoln (360) + 90 = 540*
i would have responded point by point because it's a lazy friday at work but it'd be more trouble than it's worth
no one's "calling a cork a fucking rodeo" here, we're only saying the difference between cork/dspin, misty/bio, and cork/underflip are trivial. this part's subjective and we can agree to disagree
yes, i can do most of the tricks discussed and the set is similar, sometimes the same. i learned undies by carving hard into a cork 5
re: the dubs we're back to the same problem you have with the single undie. ask anybody who knows what they're talking about-- there's no such thing as a dub underflip 3, the same way there's no underflip 1. this part is not a matter of opinion, so don't respond to me with some mental acrobatics, just ask someone who could be considered an authority on this
McLS
Active member
13462564:Titsandwich11 said:
What the actual fuck. "The flip count as 360". xD can you not see the huge flaw in your reasoning here? I dunno how it is in the US, but the irony of you telling me that anyone who knows what's up would shut me up, is that I use to think an overfill and a misty were the same thing, and being lucky enough to ride at a french resort were quite a few park shoot happen (and knowing very well the guy who makes those shoot happen), I sometimes get to hang out with some pros (It's really sad that i have to tell you this story, I'm not into claiming any of this...) so long story short, I got shut up (not so nicely too) by a few riders of the french pipe pro team when talking about overflips and misty. This is were I learned (and got ridiculed at the same time) that no, a fucking underflip isn't a 540, that flips don't fucking count as a 360, because that makes no fucking sense at all. I don't go around saying that my backflips are fucking backflips 360 do I? The confusion probably comes from rodeos and misty, were you do flip, but there is a 540 in both of them (for the original ros and misty). That certainly doesn't make an underflip a 540. I give up though, you're a lost cause.
SSteezle
Active member
13462695:McLS said:
I understand what you're saying, but you're actually wrong here. A rodeo 5, is basically a flip with a 180. A rodeo 9 is basically a flip with a 540 spin. People don't say backflip 360, but technically that would make complete sense. Instead we say double backflip, which is really a backflip 720, mind blowing right
13462695:McLS said:
I started this. First off I did not say "Underflip 540"
Second, the French are not authorities on trick names. If they were talking about something like How to Surrender or How to Eat Snails, then I would listen to them, however...
My point is that all of these tricks are on a continuum, and are very closely related to each other:
Imagine you a line drawn on a piece of paper. At one end of the line is a backflip 180 and at the other end of the line is a pencil 540. Now imagine a trick that is between these two tricks, one which falls somewhere on the line. It could be really corked, so corked that it is almost indistinguishable from a 180 with a flip. Towards the other end of the scale, you have a slightly wobbled 540.
Now, people will call tricks different names at different points on the line different things. A very corked, almost upside-down 540, might be called an underflip. Also, one that is totally upside-down (like in the second video you posted) can also be called an underfip. (It could also be called a backflip 180; they are synonymous)
All these tricks are essentially similar, because they fall on the same line, or continuum. That was my original point.
Which brings me to a third point: Sometimes a flip is counted as a spin. Deal with it.
Vincent Dorian, who arguably did the first underflips on skis, was not completely upside-down. He was just very corked. If you've ever done this trick (and I have many times) it feel a lot like a (less inverted) cork 5. The difference is very small, and you might easily call Dorian's underflips a 540.
I can think of literally hundreds of examples of this throughout the history of freeskiing. Look at Candide's early D-spins. They were essentially a 360 to backflip. No one called them that, however. They are just called D-spins or D-spin 720s...
...And a D-spin is just a MOTHERFUCKING CORK 7, which is why I wish everyone would just STOP FUCKING SAYING D-SPIN. It is an outdated term.
I could go on. What everyone calls a misty 450 off rail is usually an "overflip," which everyone knows is just a sideways flip in a forward with a 90. Who cares? You can go crazy thinking about it.
In conclusion. Many thing in life are on a continuum. Most of what people call cork 3's nowadays are basically barrel rolls. It's just a cool, different 360.
13462793:SourSteezle said:
I mostly agree with this. People who really get it understand that different tricks are pretty close to each other. A lot of so-called dub cork 7's now are practically flatspins (which are just less inverted rodeos).
If you really want a mindfuck check this: I can't find the video, but Grigory Fuzeev did what looked like a cork 360 to revert 180. If you looked at it differently it was basically an unnatural rodeo 5. You could see whichever one you wanted.
13462827:SourSteezle said:
I completely disagree with this, for reasons I have explained elsewhere. A d-spin is basically a lean back 3 to wobbly back flip, but the flip counts as a 3.
Think of it this way. Have you ever seen a d-spin truck driver? No, you haven't. That's because the same rotation wouldn't look like a d-spin if the back weren't extended. A d-spin is really just a cork seven with the body opened up, which makes the last 360 look like a flip.
Which points out that a d-spin is just a really inverted cork 7 (my original point) just like a misty is a more inverted bio.
I will argue this point all day. Of course everything varies depending on when you spin, early or late, but it's still all off-axis spins.
McLS
Active member
13462793:SourSteezle said:
Rodeos and misty (unless done really flippy) were always an off axis (but different form the cork axis) 540.
unless you're blind, clearly 540 off axis @4:27
[video]https://vimeo.com/85540650[/video]
You'll agree that a 360 is a on axis rotation, completing a full "circle", which is why it's called fucking 360°. How can you possibly think that a backflip, a rotation where you go upside down on the x axis and revert fully could be called a 360°? Unless you're changing the axis, and then a fucking 360 would be called a backflip....and no, a double backflip can never be a backflip 720, what the hell are you on dude
13462825:Sngl2th said:
The french may not be authorities on trick naming (although Candide was french and pretty much invented the cork and a bunch of other tricks so you know...) but what I was saying is that FIS and Xgames champion probably fucking are, french or not...
And yes! you got it! a spin IS a off axis 360 to a backflip, although if it flows well you'll get 3/4 of a backflip coming from off axis. A dspin isn't just a more inverted cork 7...Candide's dspins are exactly what we still call dspins today. DIFFERENT TRICK FROM FUCKING CORK 7.
So anyways, you can keep your continuum bullshit and approximate trick naming, I'll keep calling an underflip an underflip, and not a cork or a rodeo, because they are different. If they weren't people wouldn't be calling em that, and the names would never have stayed. And if someone does a barrel roll (or lincoln, same thing, different name) and calls it a cork 3, well he's fucking wrong. And I'd like to see a video of someone doing a legit lincoln and calling it a cork 3, don't think it exists.
13462827:SourSteezle said:
YES. I'm really sad that you never see em around anymore, one of my favourite tricks.
So anyways, you can keep your continuum bullshit and approximate trick naming, I'll keep calling an underflip an underflip, and not a cork or a rodeo, because they are different. If they weren't people wouldn't be calling em that, and the names would never have stayed. And if someone does a barrel roll (or lincoln, same thing, different name) and calls it a cork 3, well he's fucking wrong. And I'd like to see a video of someone doing a legit lincoln and calling it a cork 3, don't think it exists.
YES. I'm really sad that you never see em around anymore, one of my favourite tricks.[/QUOTE]
I just mean that cork 3's and lincolns can be pretty close. Yes, I can see that it's a different trick.
However, I don't think you get that a "d-spin" is a 720. Just look at d-spin 9, like Candide used to do.
If a d-spin is a just totally inverted flip with a 360 (which is what you probably think it is), then guess what it is? A back full.
And I will say to anyone, show me a d-spin nose or a d-spin truck driver. You can't. It will look like a cork 7. Know why. BECAUSE IT'S A CORK 7
YES. I'm really sad that you never see em around anymore, one of my favourite tricks.[/QUOTE]
I just mean that cork 3's and lincolns can be pretty close. Yes, I can see that it's a different trick.
However, I don't think you get that a "d-spin" is a 720. Just look at d-spin 9, like Candide used to do.
If a d-spin is a just totally inverted flip with a 360 (which is what you probably think it is), then guess what it is? A back full.
And I will say to anyone, show me a d-spin nose or a d-spin truck driver. You can't. It will look like a cork 7. Know why. BECAUSE IT'S A CORK 7
SSteezle
Active member
13463066:Sngl2th said:
Just because you haven't seen one doesn't mean it's not possible. It'd look weird as hell, but you could put a nose or truck into a dspin 7. You realize a d-spin is just the opposite of how an inverted bio is a misty, right? Corks and spins are different tricks, ask dylan ferguson. he's one of the only riders I still see doing true d-spins
13463076:SourSteezle said:
I realize that a misty is the equivalent of a D-spin. Which is why I STILL DON'T THINK D-SPINS are really anything that different from a cork 7. My original point.
Can you show me a D-spin 540? No, you can't.
Plus Ferguson has literally the worst style of anyone out there. He does back fulls, because he is an aerial guy.
D-Spin is like McTwist in snowboarding. It's just an outdated term for a type of rotation that isn't common anymore. A McTwist is just a really inverted cork five in the pipe.
People seriously need to stop using the term D-spin. I'm going to start a goddamn thread to this effect. When Uncle E started saying double d-spin while commentating (that guy has never had a clue about anything and I doubt if he can do a 720) I knew that that whole term was fucked.
People seriously need to stop using the term D-spin. I'm going to start a goddamn thread to this effect. When Uncle E started saying double d-spin while commentating (that guy has never had a clue about anything and I doubt if he can do a 720) I knew that that whole term was fucked.
McLS
Active member
13463282:Sngl2th said:
nah, I can't be fucked to rant about people who get the trick name wrong, and tbh, if you're trying to cork, and it ends up being more inverted than it should, call it a cork, it's what you were going for anyways.
It's a shame no one does them anymore, i'll agree that a cork feels much more flowy than a dspin, but I prefer the look of the dspin.
SofaKingSick
Active member
13462695:McLS said:
i don't know what to tell you man, youre missing the most basic knowledge of ski trick terminology
to see how it works and why it makes sense as a system, take your phone and flip it in the air so it does a backflip 360. we'll call this a dspin 7 for now. now, set the flip part less and less inverted and eventually the trick flattens out into a cork 7, and finally into a regular 7. this is because the trick, from the outset, is a 7-- it just can take many different forms as you change the axis
now do the same with an underflip, or any other trick
no, you wouldn't call a backflip a backflip 360 because that is not in the definition of a backflip, a backie is just a backie so when you say backie 360 it means that you are adding the 360 because you are just adding two trick names together. but that is not how a misty, e.g., works. that's just part of the definition of misties etc
i don't know why a handful of french pipe jocks that talked down to you holds so much weight in your mind but let me assure you that an underflip is a 5. ive skied with plenty of ams and pros and they can be wrong just like anyone else. if you don't get that an undie is a 5 youre going to have lots of trouble making sense of any trick discussion. make a thread with a poll or something. ask an approachable pro or am on here whose answer you'd trust. nobody with a clue is going to agree that an underflip is not a 5, or that there is such a thing as a dub underflip 3
13464920:McLS said:
Well, obviously you look at the trick and usually recognize whats going on. Do you really have to count the rotations to tell the difference between tricks?
Take a rodeo 7. That trick consists of a normal rodeo 540, plus 180 degrees added to the end. (Dumbed down version, i realize people might set a rodeo 7 a little different than a rodeo 5.) The first part of the trick is a flippy motion combined with a spinning motion. This obviously doesn't happen on a perfect horisontal axis and a perfect vertical axis, but you get the idea. You're spinning/flipping on 2 different axis's. Then you have the last 180, which is pretty self-explainatory. Add that up: 360+180+180. Rodeo 720.