Elitism in the backcountry

pbs

Member
First off, I will say skiing has been and will continue to be catered and advertised to upper middle class. Having the free time and cash flow to be able to ski is a luxury and privilege that most working class people are not able to attain. I got into the backcountry 6 years ago, tired of only skiing 1-3 lines of untracked snow on a weekend powder day. Not having boots with tech inserts and unable to afford a second pair, I went to Craigslist and picked up an old pair of armadas with marker frame bindings for 300 dollars. Skins came a few days later with the surprise at how expensive they were.

My first tour was on Mt Rainier, I found a skin track leading away from the paradise parking lot and followed it with a more experienced friend. In Seattle and Bellevue, a nexus of tech companies and outdoor enthusiasts occurs. Many of these young people spend their disposable incomes on gear which leads to many folks out in the BC having setups worth more than my car.

These are the types that I met that first day touring. Chatting with people around me lead to some interesting interactions.

“I’ve never seen some one with frame bindings keep up with me before”

“I see you brought the whole kitchen sink with you”

“wow... those look heavy”

Hearing this comments and remarks really pissed me off. Maybe it was the fact that they many weren’t locals. Being a fourth generation Seattleite has lead me to dislike the newcomers in town, after all they are making it unaffordable to live here. The mostly likely symptom of this newfound anger for the arcteryx clad amazonians was the toxicity of the comments and the toxicity of this culture there were propagating. A culture that held the cost and weight and branding of what your were using higher than the hedonism that had lead me to love sliding down snow in the first place. I want more people to enjoy snow and winter in the same way I do.

I am glad when it is 43 degrees and raining in Seattle because I know the mountains are getting pounded. I love seeing others be just as stoked on things as I am, especially when I have some impact. I taught skiing all of high school, often in the rain and dreary that snoqualmie pass is know for. I worked for one of the cheaper ski schools, a full season of all day Saturday lessons cost 550 dollars, a cheaper cost than one full day private lesson at Whistler. One reason I kept coming back other than the cheap pass was that I was helping families of often lower income enjoy skiing.

Extrapolating out to my time in backcountry follows parallel thought. I would love for more people to safely explore the mountains that our world has to offer. These wealthy young tourers were crushing that reality. I meet plenty of lovely people that day on Rainer, many seemed excited that I was getting into the sport that they too had come to love. There are so many great people in the backcountry. However, it only takes one bad experience for people to be turned away from this sport. The last thing I want for those getting into bc skiing and spending a good chunk of money on gear and education is to be deflated by this culture. I am tired of this elitist mindset that exists in the sport. I hope it changes.

My mind that was clouded with anger was effortlessly cleared when I watched these skiers try and make their way down to the parking lot. many seemed to have skipped learning altogether and just bought gear. I found it amusing that they had made these comments when I could ski faster than them switch, so that’s exactly what I did,I felt like I stuck it in their faces. Was that elitist too?

hopefully this rant is coherent, I typed it on my notes app and thought I would edit it, I chose not to.

**This thread was edited on May 29th 2021 at 12:41:47am
 
Every time I hit my local bc spot I always get overtaken by some 40 year olds who think they’re core as fuck with their Rossi soul 7’s
 
This isn’t a skiing problem to me this is a culture problem. In every community I am apart of there is a shift from focusing on having a good time to having the good gear. Very sad
 
I can't wait to get dirty looks from north face kitted Mormons while I blow by them on my Daymakers next season LOL
 
14293074:BradFiAusNzCoCa said:
Unfortunately, there are dicks everywhere.

As far as I can tell the better the terrain is the more assholes you encounter. Everyone is pretty cool at my local mountain cause the skiing is terrible lmao, meanwhile the amount of assholes I encountered at Alta/bird...
 
I noticed that first time I skiied Squaw - a ton of hardos.

Its why I preferred Alpine and Sugar bowl over Squaw

14293094:pinkcamo1000 said:
As far as I can tell the better the terrain is the more assholes you encounter. Everyone is pretty cool at my local mountain cause the skiing is terrible lmao, meanwhile the amount of assholes I encountered at Alta/bird...
 
wow Rainier is a pretty beefy tour for your first one ever haha. did you have prior experience with mountaineering at all? I did mt st helens about a month ago and my buddy was using some old marker frame bindings and boots that looked like they were from the 90s and he did just fine

seattle is just pretty pretentious in general, not just with skiing. I live in seattle rn and i always get a kick out of how serious paddle boarders take themselves

i'm originally from utah and this culture definitely exists there too, it exists everywhere to be honest, but there's nothing that makes me happier than touring up somewhere LCC and meeting a random 80 yr old grandpa that's shredding on a super old/heavy setup and just loving it
 
14293097:stinky_cheese said:
wow Rainier is a pretty beefy tour for your first one ever haha. did you have prior experience with mountaineering at all?

I only went up to about 8000 feet, not the summit.
 
topic:pbs said:
First off, I will say skiing has been and will continue to be catered and advertised to upper middle class. Having the free time and cash flow to be able to ski is a luxury and privilege that most working class people are not able to attain. I got into the backcountry 6 years ago, tired of only skiing 1-3 lines of untracked snow on a weekend powder day. Not having boots with tech inserts and unable to afford a second pair, I went to Craigslist and picked up an old pair of armadas with marker frame bindings for 300 dollars. Skins came a few days later with the surprise at how expensive they were.

My first tour was on Mt Rainier, I found a skin track leading away from the paradise parking lot and followed it with a more experienced friend. In Seattle and Bellevue, a nexus of tech companies and outdoor enthusiasts occurs. Many of these young people spend their disposable incomes on gear which leads to many folks out in the BC having setups worth more than my car.

These are the types that I met that first day touring. Chatting with people around me lead to some interesting interactions.

“I’ve never seen some one with frame bindings keep up with me before”

“I see you brought the whole kitchen sink with you”

“wow... those look heavy”

Hearing this comments and remarks really pissed me off. Maybe it was the fact that they many weren’t locals. Being a fourth generation Seattleite has lead me to dislike the newcomers in town, after all they are making it unaffordable to live here. The mostly likely symptom of this newfound anger for the arcteryx clad amazonians was the toxicity of the comments and the toxicity of this culture there were propagating. A culture that held the cost and weight and branding of what your were using higher than the hedonism that had lead me to love sliding down snow in the first place. I want more people to enjoy snow and winter in the same way I do.

I am glad when it is 43 degrees and raining in Seattle because I know the mountains are getting pounded. I love seeing others be just as stoked on things as I am, especially when I have some impact. I taught skiing all of high school, often in the rain and dreary that snoqualmie pass is know for. I worked for one of the cheaper ski schools, a full season of all day Saturday lessons cost 550 dollars, a cheaper cost than one full day private lesson at Whistler. One reason I kept coming back other than the cheap pass was that I was helping families of often lower income enjoy skiing.

Extrapolating out to my time in backcountry follows parallel thought. I would love for more people to safely explore the mountains that our world has to offer. These wealthy young tourers were crushing that reality. I meet plenty of lovely people that day on Rainer, many seemed excited that I was getting into the sport that they too had come to love. There are so many great people in the backcountry. However, it only takes one bad experience for people to be turned away from this sport. The last thing I want for those getting into bc skiing and spending a good chunk of money on gear and education is to be deflated by this culture. I am tired of this elitist mindset that exists in the sport. I hope it changes.

My mind that was clouded with anger was effortlessly cleared when I watched these skiers try and make their way down to the parking lot. many seemed to have skipped learning altogether and just bought gear. I found it amusing that they had made these comments when I could ski faster than them switch, so that’s exactly what I did,I felt like I stuck it in their faces. Was that elitist too?

hopefully this rant is coherent, I typed it on my notes app and thought I would edit it, I chose not to.

**This thread was edited on May 29th 2021 at 12:41:47am

Amen to that.
 
I wont call that elitism, its called buying into a sport.

Reminds me of that time my buddy and I hiked a 3km, 400m gain with the heaviest setup imaginable (2012 rossi super 7 on baron 13 and my bud had the Armada bubbas with the baron too). We passed a group of 2 with superlight pro gear mid way, then crossed them again near the top on our second lap. These guys thought they bought the wrong gear because they sucked on both uphill and downhill.
 
14293092:Schoess said:
I can't wait to get dirty looks from north face kitted Mormons while I blow by them on my Daymakers next season LOL

Some of the mormon dads are real hardos who are in better shape at 50 than the rest of us have been in our entire lives. See you out here next season dude!
 
lol, if I see someone with those lame ass pin binding I automaticlly assume that they blow at skiing. I would much rather carry some more weight and have a real fucking binding that can take an impact of a landing that some pussy ass pin binding. True skiers who throw down in the backcountry never use those fucking things.
 
14293121:steeze_louise said:
lol, if I see someone with those lame ass pin binding I automaticlly assume that they blow at skiing. I would much rather carry some more weight and have a real fucking binding that can take an impact of a landing that some pussy ass pin binding. True skiers who throw down in the backcountry never use those fucking things.

day makers and pivots are the way to go.
 
14293121:steeze_louise said:
lol, if I see someone with those lame ass pin binding I automaticlly assume that they blow at skiing. I would much rather carry some more weight and have a real fucking binding that can take an impact of a landing that some pussy ass pin binding. True skiers who throw down in the backcountry never use those fucking things.

Sammy Carlson and Hoji would like to have a word with you.
 
14293121:steeze_louise said:
lol, if I see someone with those lame ass pin binding I automaticlly assume that they blow at skiing. I would much rather carry some more weight and have a real fucking binding that can take an impact of a landing that some pussy ass pin binding. True skiers who throw down in the backcountry never use those fucking things.

Except for Hoji, Cody Towsend, Mark Abma,Seth Morrison, Rob Dickinson and Chrtisina Lusti.
 
Uhm skiing is skiing! I have had amazing days hitting the community park, touring with good buds, and doing stupid shit when it was raining and shit conditions!

I have definitely seen the elite bc crowd and if you throw a bag of fun in they usually change their tune. Just throw a screamin seamin into the ski run amd they relax!
 
14293097:stinky_cheese said:
wow Rainier is a pretty beefy tour for your first one ever haha. did you have prior experience with mountaineering at all? I did mt st helens about a month ago and my buddy was using some old marker frame bindings and boots that looked like they were from the 90s and he did just fine

seattle is just pretty pretentious in general, not just with skiing. I live in seattle rn and i always get a kick out of how serious paddle boarders take themselves

i'm originally from utah and this culture definitely exists there too, it exists everywhere to be honest, but there's nothing that makes me happier than touring up somewhere LCC and meeting a random 80 yr old grandpa that's shredding on a super old/heavy setup and just loving it

Paddle boarders I'm actually crying right now
 
14293203:DummyBears said:
Paddle boarders I'm actually crying right now

Ha - I thought exactly the same thing - but also foilers. They are multiplying and it's not good.


**This post was edited on May 30th 2021 at 1:24:49am
 
Unpopular opinion get ready. So you said u got in backcountry 6 years ago and didn't know how much skins cost until u wasted ur money on that shitty a/t setup. I assume beacon shovel probe never crossed your mind either. Or avi 1 class for that matter. at least you had ur experienced friend who should be on tech if he's "experienced". Backcountry in its nature is all about preservation and distance from safety. if you're a true backcountry enthusiast you're concerned with the most inaccessible places that are far af. You're already spending $500 on ur craiglist set that someone else bought realized it was ass and sold it. You're gonna wanna do the same thing if you go on a few serious tours with people who are on tech. Its like hiking with flip flops. you can do it but its fuckin ass and youre a noob

**This post was edited on May 30th 2021 at 1:33:15am
 
14293211:percs said:
Unpopular opinion get ready. So you said u got in backcountry 6 years ago and didn't know how much skins cost until u wasted ur money on that shitty a/t setup. I assume beacon shovel probe never crossed your mind either. Or avi 1 class for that matter. at least you had ur experienced friend who should be on tech if he's "experienced". Backcountry in its nature is all about preservation and distance from safety. if you're a true backcountry enthusiast you're concerned with the most inaccessible places that are far af. You're already spending $500 on ur craiglist set that someone else bought realized it was ass and sold it. You're gonna wanna do the same thing if you go on a few serious tours with people who are on tech. Its like hiking with flip flops. you can do it but its fuckin ass and youre a noob

**This post was edited on May 30th 2021 at 1:33:15am

Dogshit take IMO. What is a true backcountry enthusiast? Why is it defined by the gear you have? Why must a “true” enthusiast be concerned with getting to the most remote places? A “true” enthusiast should be defined by that label, someone that’s enthused with being in the mountains, enjoying themselves and coming back safely.

“you wasted your money on that setup”

are you fucking kidding me? I used it for 4 years, I’ve climbed over 100,000 vert on it. still haven’t sold it. My price per use is in the cents at this point. Did it take me more energy to get to the top of a skin track? of course. But again why does that matter?

this is what I’m trying to say, people are too concerned with what gear others use and put them in boxes and judge accordingly.

I got a pair of kingpins this year, they are lightyears ahead of my frames. I’m not poo pooing using better stuff, buy and use what you want. Just don’t think lesser of anyone else because they can’t afford shit. Your comment is the exact thing I wrote this about. I’m not a noob because I use frames, you’re not any better than me.

**This post was edited on May 30th 2021 at 2:48:07am
 
14293222:pbs said:
are you fucking kidding me? I used it for 4 years, I’ve climbed over 100,000 vert on it. still haven’t sold it. My price per use is in the cents at this point. Did it take me more energy to get to the top of a skin track? of course. But again why does that matter?

**This post was edited on May 30th 2021 at 2:48:07am

My first setup was super long & heavy (but cheap) and it was exhausting touring for 4-7 hours a day. I was constantly bagged and extremely tired after climbing. It made me stronger for sure, but on the downside - it was kinda sketchy being that tired. In case of an emergency if god forbid I had to dig one of my friends out I wouldn't have the energy to since I wasted it all lugging my heavy ass skis around. It took me a while to save up and I waited for everything to go on sale but I upgraded to a lightweight setup after realizing this.

That being said... if you managed to tour for 4 years on frame bindings you're probably a tank with massive

legs and you'll be faster than everyone on the skintrack after switching over to those kingpins hahaha
 
Lmao, jealous much?

I worked my ass off to buy my ultra light setup.

I’m prob not as fast as you, but don’t worry, I’ll tip you a $5 when you’re waxing my fine French skis when I blow through your town, crybaby.
 
I hope I encounter some shitheads in the bc as I sprint past them on m pros with dukes both up and down, please someone give me the opportunity to laugh to myself about your underdeveloped legs, lungs and point out how your weak lightweight noodle setup is perfect for a weak lightweight jerry

I also really hope I meet some kore skiers who just wanna ski and fucking rip whether it’s in leather boots and shoe string bindings or fancy new tech
 
A thread calling out "elitism" in the BC is filled with a bunch of kids thinking they're better, more fit, more core, etc. because of the gear they're using while skiing in the BC.

So fucking ironic.
 
as someone who started decades ago

when you teled, had silverttas for frame binders, dynas that only went to 10, purple skins and a choice of like 3 boots

and had to dial up an avvy report on a phone

yall got it real good

grow some thicker skin and try to enjoy the bc
 
14293227:Millenialfalcon said:
Lmao, jealous much?

I worked my ass off to buy my ultra light setup.

I’m prob not as fast as you, but don’t worry, I’ll tip you a $5 when you’re waxing my fine French skis when I blow through your town, crybaby.

Tell me more
 
14293237:skierman said:
A thread calling out "elitism" in the BC is filled with a bunch of kids thinking they're better, more fit, more core, etc. because of the gear they're using while skiing in the BC.

So fucking ironic.

Dw bro im sure those people he got mad at also went home and wrote an essay on their favorite skiing forum about elitism in the bc because they were shamed for having good gear.

Oh wait.. they didnt

**This post was edited on May 30th 2021 at 9:28:48am
 
14293237:skierman said:
A thread calling out "elitism" in the BC is filled with a bunch of kids thinking they're better, more fit, more core, etc. because of the gear they're using while skiing in the BC.

So fucking ironic.

A skiierman take I can actually get behind.

Who TF cares about what comments you get about the gear you use? Just ski dude, it's supposed to be fun
 
14293227:Millenialfalcon said:
Lmao, jealous much?

I worked my ass off to buy my ultra light setup.

I’m prob not as fast as you, but don’t worry, I’ll tip you a $5 when you’re waxing my fine French skis when I blow through your town, crybaby.

You sound like a cunt.
 
I've gotten "you should have bought..." a few times. Thats right not hello your gear sucks, no hello at all just wtf.
 
14293122:steeze_louise said:
day makers and pivots are the way to go.

I had day makers this past season and the weight is actually super noticable on long tours. I thought my legs would get used to them by the 10th outing in the backcountry but damn it always kinda sucked. Mind you I was on some liberty origin 120's, If your going to be on DM you'd probably want a really light setup.
 
14293274:Millenialfalcon said:
Dude, your the king of the online skiing forum.

3k + likes. Really something to be proud of.

you should change your screen name to @dumbassbears

I'm clearly not there's people that contribute way more then I do consistently and make better content you just come at me when you look like a bot on here right now.
 
14293295:sharpski said:
I had day makers this past season and the weight is actually super noticable on long tours. I thought my legs would get used to them by the 10th outing in the backcountry but damn it always kinda sucked. Mind you I was on some liberty origin 120's, If your going to be on DM you'd probably want a really light setup.

I started touring with them, great for shorter days or a single big line, the weight never goes away really and storing them was always annoying, essentially ideal for people building jumps or a low budget option. Been on kingpins for a year and can tour twice as long and ski just as hard all day with them.

Really couldn’t care less what people use in the BC, i sometimes have people with some light mediocre downhill setup say my enforcer 104s with kingpins seem heavy, as I’m passing them and on my way to ski something they only would on resort skis. It’s still just funny to me that people are so against some things like tech toes still, I get it, but you also don’t have to use pivots to send in the BC....
 
14293227:Millenialfalcon said:
Lmao, jealous much?

I worked my ass off to buy my ultra light setup.

I’m prob not as fast as you, but don’t worry, I’ll tip you a $5 when you’re waxing my fine French skis when I blow through your town, crybaby.

But can your fine French skis do the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs?
 
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