Easter question...

SteezePatrol

SteezePatrol

Active member
warning; religiously related thread.

so i was watching the news the other day and some guy was on talking about different people's versions of heaven, if heaven exists, and a bunch of heaven related stuff because he apparently wrote a book about it (let's not go there).

annnyways they started talking about easter coming up, the rising of Christ, and how Jesus was crucified/sacrificed for man's sins so that we would have a chance at getting into heaven or something.

I'm not really understanding this. To whom was he sacrificed to? And why? I don't think the theory is that the people killing him thought, "This is the son of God, we have to kill him so we can go to heaven," so how did we get this notion that that was the reason he was killed? I'm not trying to be a smartass or anything here, but I'm really not following this theory. And if God put him on earth to be killed so that then he would let people into heaven...wtf?

Where did all of this shit come from? I know it's kind of like asking where all the rules and stories from the bible came from, but there's got to be some more explanation...?
 
seriously go talk to a pastor, most of the ones i have come in contact with are super nice and not pushy(i know this is not always the case)

let me sum it up as easily as i can,

1 God can not look at sin, he can not have sin in heaven

2 Jesus is/was Gods son, he lived to be a perfect sacrifice to take the place of all the sin past, present and future. (if you are a Christian)

3 the fact that Jesus existed is real, it takes a step of "faith" to believe he rose from the dead.

if you want to know more, feel free to PM me and i will do my best to answer any of your questions..

Justin
 
the romans killed him, but they didnt necessarily want him dead, it was the jewish leaders who were on the "witch hunt" if you will. they(the jewish leaders) had the romans kill him, in the name that he claimed to be the divine son of God( a sin at that time)..........

again im not claiming to know it all, but i hope this helps answer your questions
 
Also keep in mind that the people that killed Jesus did not believe that he was the son of God. So the people that killed him were not thinking that they must sacrifice him to gain passage to heaven. They classified Jesus as a criminal.
 
thanks but that didn't answer any of my questions. i probably didn't word it too well, I'll try again

Why did God sacrifice his only son to himself? A sacrifice is usually something you get rid of so that something of a greater value can be obtained. How does killing your son in an extremely gruesome manner eliminate sin from the earth? Who says it was a perfect sacrifice. How does a bunch of Romans torturing and killing God's son make modern day rape, murder, theft, etc., no longer a sin? Does this mean that I can do anything and still get into heaven because Jesus was murdered?

I still do not follow
 
and the question that's really bugging me...where is all of this information coming from??? who told who that jesus was gods son sent to be sacrificed for our sins?

somebody please refrain from answering me by saying something like "it's what some people believe" or "jesus was sent to die for all the fucked up shit we did". I want to know where this information came from
 
i think the missing word in this thread is ORIGINAL. Jesus' crucifiction erased original sin. Christians believe that when Adam and Eve ate the apple from the garden is when sin was born. So by eating the apple every person born today is now born with sin. When Jesus was crucified this was the sacrifice that forgave all humans of this original sin. Everything like rap and murder are still concidered sins. So Jesus' crucifiction and resurection was to erase all of mans original sin.

I dont no if that answers your question but I think that is what ur asking.
 
you are getting into some really deep stuff, your best bet is talk to someone who has formal education in the manner(pastor, priest, ect)

God needs payment for our sins(dont ask me why but he does) jesus was payments for our sins...

but you still need to "ask" for forgiveness and also repent for your sins.......
 
people werent just like oh lets kill him so we go to heaven God sent his own son to earth for a better understanding of how humans really feel jesus felt everything we feel hunger thirst pain etc... so jesus started to tell people about God and how he was the son of God and came here to save us all from sin (i think) then he met the 12 apostles who were the ones that actually believed him and with the strongest faith or w/e then damn i only know their names in spanish... ok one of them started converting people who believed in him and this is how the whole religion started (i think) but those who didnt believe (mostly jewish people) kings at the time and authority( they didnt jsut decide to kill him so they could go to heaven no one knew only God) they started hating on him and sent him to jail for preaching "false statements" then they told him to say everything was a lie or he would be crucified he didn't of course so the whole crucification started. From there on he said the jews were never going to be happy and he wishes the worse to them forever, thats why the Holocaust happened and they will never be happy.

now this is my believes im not too sure about some of this stuff but just talk to a very religious person like a priest or a nun and they will clarify everything i know all this because my mom is very religious and she tries to teach me all this stuff.
 
this is all coming from the bible everything! even if you go to church the priest is going to be reading the bible and explaining it to you so you have a better understanding.
 
whenever I've asked a pastor or someone of religious background a question to which the answer clearly isn't just re-telling a magical fairy tale or "gotta have faith", i seem to end up with a magic fairy tale or "its a faith thing".

but this information HAS to be coming from somewhere and SOMEONE has to know where it's coming from, so im asking ns
 
i can assure you the person is not on NS who has the answer to your questions, if you ask any half decent pastor, youth minister, ect they should have tons of historical proof for things that happened in the bible, so once you accept the bible as factual then follow what it says...
 
Are you a christian?? im guessing not because if you were then you would no the bible isn't just a book. The bible is the 13 deciples documentations of what jesus did while on earth (well at least the new testement is, the old testement is before jesus was on earth) but the bible is what the entire christian faith is based on. The bible is where every part of our faith is based from. if you didnt no that or believe that then i dont think your ever going to get the answer to your question.
 
No not really. Jesus could have avoided his death if he wanted to. There were ways for him to get out of it. However, he knew that in his death he would be 'saving' the human race. It's not that someone made him out to be a sacrifice. He made HIMSELF out to be a sacrifice. He was sacrificing himself to save us and as an ultimate repentance for our original sin.
 
what, i thought god sent him down to be the sacrifice. did he then tell his disciples why he was doing this?

how'd he know that allowing himself to die would eliminate our origional sin?
 
FINALLY some has the right answer. Its not like the jews said "We want this man sacrificed to save us from sin." They said "We want this man killed because he is a heretic."
 
If I remember correctly, he told them eventually, and they weren't pleased obviously. That's at least how I remember it, I haven't read the bible in quite a while, I probably should. Basically Jesus died for our sins, he then rose from the grave 3 days later as our savior.
 
Ok, I'm not a pastor, but I'll try to answer some of these questions as best I can. But like someone already said, you're asking a lot of deep questions that can't be answered on NS in 5 minutes.

First let me say that Jesus never said anything to the effect of "Jews will never be happy" or whatever someone has the notion of. In fact, he prayed "Father, forgiven them, because they don't know what they are doing" as he was hanging on the cross, he asked specifically for their forgiveness.

In the beginning when God created Adam and Eve, he walked with them in the garden every day,/i>...he created us to have relationship with him. Imagine you getting to walk with God every day.

Sin entered the world because Adam and Eve ate fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, up until then, they had no understanding of evil because they had never experienced it, they lived in a perfect garden, where they walked with God, etc.

The fruit itself wasn't evil, what made it a sin was that God specifically told them not to eat it, and they disobeyed, same thing as when your parents tell you not to do something and you don't obey. Now people have said all kinds of things about how God threatened them saying they would die if they ate the fruit, and why it was even in the garden...here is what I believe:

God didn't threaten, he warned them in love, it would be like your dad saying "there are cars outside on the street, and it's dangerous, you could get hurt, so I don't want you to play in the street"...he's telling you ahead of time so you know and you won't get hurt cause he loves you. But if he locked you inside all the time and never let you have the chance to go near the street or anything else that could hut you, he doesn't trust you. So God gave them the choice, because he trusted them.

Because of the sin though, God couldn't fellowship with them anymore, he can't be in the presence of sin or even look at it, he is too Holy. So for a long time people had to make sacrifices to atone for sins. And the sacrifice had to be a "spotless lamb" meaning a baby, lamb, white wool, nothing wrong with it, etc.

Flashing forward a bit:

Jesus Christ is born, lives 33 years on the earth and never sins, even when Satan in the flesh comes and tempts him. This makes him perfect. A spotless lamb.

Because of our sin, we have to be punished. God is a just God, and therefore if offenses have bee committed, he has to punish us. But because he is also a loving God and wants to have a relationship with us, he came up with a way to substitute Jesus in our place.

It's like an exchange, Jesus was perfect, we aren't...but when he died, he took all the punishment of sin on himself for us. When he was hanging on the cross and said "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" it was because at that moment all the sin of the world was on his shoulders, and God had to look away from his son, and Jesus couldn't see his fathers face.

But because he took all the sin, God counted it paid in full, as long as were are under his son's name.

Think of it like a restaurant...you go in and eat, and as you're leaving you need to settle your bill, but you have no money...however there's a big wedding party on the other side of the room, and the whole bill for their food is already paid for. If you were with that party, you would be covered. Well, that's basically what has happened, Jesus covered the bill, the only condition is we have to claim ourselves on the wedding party list. And we're invited.

Anyway, because God sees the people on the list under Jesus' name as paid for, he sees them as perfect, the same way his son was, and that means we can have a relationship with him again. It's like Jesus came down and said "I'll make you a deal, if you give up your coat of sin, I'll trade you and give you my coat of righteousness"

The reason he died was because that was our punishment, and he knew that the only way for us to be able to have a relationship with God was if we were perfect, and the only way for us to be perfect in God's eyes was to have our sins paid for by a perfect sacrifice.

This was kinda long, but there is so much more I couldn't put here, if you have any questions or want more information, PM me and I'd be happy to talk with you about it.
 
this is very in depth and i can see that you put some time into it so thanks, but it kind of follows the

'you get a half answer with a story' thing i was talking about before.

how did all of this information fall into the bible? (I'm assuming that Jesus told some people basically what you said when he was ressurected?) who did he tell? or who did God tell?
 
I meant to address that and forgot, apologies.

The entire Bible is the inspired word of God...meaning that even though he didn't physically write the words with his hand, they are his words.

The Bible is made up is 66 books in total, by 40 different authors, so even though we think of it as one book, it isn't.

And just like different books would, they fall into different catagories, for example the first five books in the Bible are books of the law. There are also books of poetry, history, and so forth.

The new testament, at least the gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) are each authors story as told from their perspective. They are the same story of Jesus from 4 different eyewitnesses.

The Bible is in fact the most historically accurate book in existence, and so much if it can be substantiated from other historical sources.

 
so did God speak to these people? or are all of the things that they wrote down just the general concensus of the christian people. I'm still not seeing where these facts came from (not the historical facts you're talking about, the spiritual ones), I understand that there are people who wrote these 'facts' down, but where did the evidence or direct consultation from God come from when SOMEBODY('s) realized that Jesus dying paid for all of our sins.

How do we know that God is too Holy to look upon sin? On a side note, how do we know about everything that happened in Eden, etc etc etc. Where is this information coming from, not who wrote it down. Was Jesus the message boy who told all of us these stories or what?
 
If God wanted people to believe something, wouldn't he come up with a better plan than sending a dude that a minute fraction of the population ever saw to die and then come back to life with a handful of people watching. Did anyone even see him ascend back into heaven, or did they just find an empty tomb? I forget exactly how the story goes, but it doesn't really matter because without any evidence its merely a story whatever it is that you say. Why would God send someone to a handful of people and then expect everyone else to rely on hearsay of people that died 2000 years ago? WTF is the point? Does God want people to take outrageous stories handed down by fellow humans as fact without proof? Thats retarded, I think "God" is smarter than that.
 
Who told you the Bible is the inspired word of God? Other people? I can say that the Harry Potter series is the inspired word of God but that doesn't make it so. 1,000 people can say it and theres still no evidence that is true unless God personally revealed himself as God and told us otherwise.

The bible takes place in a setting that existed in history. That doesn't mean that people said what it claims they said or did what they did. It's called a historical fiction novel and we have thousands today, some of which are probably more detailed and representive of their setting than the bible is for its.
 
i cant find the bible verse now, but i will do my best and then link you a page too it...

this brings up a very deep question i would like Love-wins opinion on...... i have had this conversation many times with my pastor, i dont know the answer, and i dont think anyone does.....

if God can not look at sin, how could Jesus be tempted by Satan in the desert? Jesus = God God > sin

the only thing we could come up with is, it has to do with him being fully man and fully God all at the same time. and being God, anything is possible..
 
Well as far as Eden is concerned, it was the Holy Spirit who spoke through people with the account, as there was no one around except Adam and Eve at that point to write it down.

It's hard to understand some of these things if you're not spiritually invested. Kind of how I can see the evolutionist's standpoint, but it's hard for most evolutionists to see things from a creation standpoint...it's not a physical ablility, it's the spiritual side of things that hangs them up most times.

Jesus was not the "messenger boy", in fact, much of the Bible was written before his birth, and there were hundreds of prophecies in the old testament that fortold the coming of Jesus, and what is birth, death and resurrection would signify. To understand about how God can and can't look at sin is very hard to grasp also, because you have to understand that God exists outside of our "timeline", and outside of time all together, and that he can be in different places in different ways. He can see sin in the sense of being all over the earth and seeing wrong things that are happening, but he can't be in the same place as sin...that's why Adam and Eve had to leave the Garden, because they'd sinned and couldn't be in his presence anymore (Jesus hadn't come yet, now that part is solved).
 
That depends on if you're saved or not, and by your tone I'm guessing you aren't, but I could be wrong, and I won't judge you either way.

All born again people are covered under Christ's blood, and therefore we have the same heavenly inheritance he has, as a son of the King.
 
some points in here are right, so are kinda off, you have the right idea tho. Jesus was "sacrificed" by Pontius Pilot (sp), a lower level leader of the Roman forces in the area, in order to cleanse mankind of their sins. The point is Jesus didnt have to die, he could have easiy saved himself, acoording to the church, but instead chose to take the puinishment he was given as a way of taking the place of sinners, and allowing us to freely enter the afterlife unburdened by our ancestors infidelities, i suppose. i went to catholic school and shit my whole life, its been jammed down my thraot like cough medicine

 
so...no one knows who made up the rules, basically someone wrote them down on old parchement and they became prophecies. people then followed and believed in these prophecies?
 
Even Pilot couldn't find anything to charge him with, and wanted to let him go. That's why he washed his hands and said he was innocent of his blood before they crucified him.

But it's not really important who had him killled...because the truth is, I had him killed, you had him killed, everyone that's ever lived and sinned had him killed.

He didn't have to die, he couldn't called down legions of angels to save him, but then we would still be where we were before his sacrifice, which is we would be doomed to be punished for our own sins for eternity after our death...but because he made the choice to die in our place, we have the option to accept his payment over us and claim life instead.
 
I do not know why he sent Jesus down here for such a short time...but what I do know is yes, his disciples did see him go back to heaven...It is sort of like dinosaurs...no one was around to see them but yet we still know they existed because of fossils, same with Jesus, we have never seen him but through written accounts and the Bible we know he existed on this earth...
 
the point is you gotta have faith in jesus. u can believe in a god, but you gotta believe that jesus is the savior of the world and died for your sins.

anyways, to the person who said that jesus existed is fact. check your facts. there is no historical proof outside of the bible that jesus even existed. historians who wrote about him wrote about him like 60 years after his supposed death, so thats like a generation later. and the gospels in the bible, the first gospal was written 30 years after his death by an anonymous person. at that time, people only lived to the age of 30-40. so if you think about it. if the gospel writers actually lived during the time of jesus, they would be 60-90 years old. yeah not possible.

by the way, during jesus' time there wasn't even a city of nazareth until after the gospels were written.
 
So if I take Christians word for it that some dude died and came back to life for me 2000 years ago that makes me a better person? I think people should be judged by their deeds. If Jesus existed I think he would like me and I'd like him. Watch the first 30 minutes of this and tell me how you like it. www.zeitgeistmovie.com
 
who wrote down these prophecies, why did they get to make the rules and why do you follow them?

this is aside my origional question, but im doing some poking around here and apparently God told Moses to sacrifice the first borns and some animals to him...why was this sacrifice necessary if Jesus had already paid for mans sins?
 
no, it is not the same at all. believing that some people saw Christ go back up to heaven just because they said so is not the same as believing the dinosaurs were around (*cough*more than 7 thousand years ago*cough*) because there are fossils.
 
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