Duke PT/Shift/Tecton

B

blyatful

Member
Hey guys! Im not feeling really comfortable with pushing any limits on my atk Freeraider 14 since its still a pin binding and im most worried about a torn knee or something. Also a guy from a shop has told me that hes not even doing a 360 with pins.

I mean most of us know nikolai schirmer and this guy is literally doing everything with his pins. yet im not confident with it, its all the time in my head.

Im 76kg and 1.80m in height, quite good skier not a pro. I like to jump off some smaller cliffs and throw a 360 here and there and my butters getting better.

i know ur opinion about the cast but i its still 200g heavier than a duke pt 12.

That would be my next question, is a din12 enough?

And overall which binding would you suggest on a 112mm 1600g ski with all the stuff mentioned above?

have a great day!
 
I don’t really see myself using anything between freeraider and cast. Take all this with a grain of salt since I haven’t skied the duke/ tecton. Wouldn’t trust the tecton more than the Atk and tecton is way heavier and has more plastic. Would trust the duke more but it’s really heavy and at that weight I would just chose the cast since I never really got along well with marker bindings and there to many moving parts.what are you’re objectives when touring?
 
For a 1600g gram ski i probably would go lighter than freeraider.

maybe get a hypeman to inspire you and give you confidence to ski hard in pins.
 
14498249:Simkiwinki said:
I don’t really see myself using anything between freeraider and cast. Take all this with a grain of salt since I haven’t skied the duke/ tecton. Wouldn’t trust the tecton more than the Atk and tecton is way heavier and has more plastic. Would trust the duke more but it’s really heavy and at that weight I would just chose the cast since I never really got along well with marker bindings and there to many moving parts.what are you’re objectives when touring?
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Same boat I'm in. Freeraider for 100% touring and cast for sidecountry or sled access. See no reason for other options in the middle, too much plastic on tecton and shift, duke PT seems alright but pretty fiddly and I knew a few people who broke the first gen before they updated the walk lever. My FR14s have been super confidence inducing though for medium drops and jumps and a lot of binding trust is in your head as OP says.
 
Ironically your pins are safer for your knees, its tib/fib spiral fractures that they are miserable for. Alpine bindings are the opposite, they do a great job mitigating tib/fib fractures but don't protect knees. Don't get the wrong idea though, alpine bindings are still generally considered safer as before releasable bindings were common tib/fib fractures were a more common injury than ACL tears, and both are similar average recovery periods (long).

I have Duke PT 16's and they are amazing- but I probably wouldn't put them on a 1600g ski. I have them on a 2100g ski, which probably sees 70-80% of its use in the resort and it is an amazing setup for my preferences. FWIW I am also looking at getting a 1500-1600g ski with ATK's or Alpinists as a second, lightweight setup for when I'm just cruising early season and not trying to flip or spin or huck too much.

"Lightweight" and "safe and confidence inspiring" are very hard to do both well. Two somewhat obscure bindings that have lateral toe release like a normal alpine binding are Fritschi Vipec 12's (590g ea) and Trab TR2's (609g ea), both a fair amount heavier than your ATK's, still pins, but not as burly as Duke/Cast. I prefer to just deal with a little extra weight and have no doubts, but that is my personal preference.
 
Seems really silly to be putting cast/duke pts/anything heavier than a freeraider on a 1600g ski. Your skis are going to give out well before freeraiders will imo. also seems odd that you are charging/spinning off cliffs on a 1600g ski. That sounds pretty rough to me. On the body and the skis.

If I were you, Id keep freeraiders on the 1600 g ski and then put cast on a beefier setup that wont be destroyed after a season of dropping cliffs. there are plenty of options sub 2000 still. Then you have mission skis and big sender skis....but that is just my opinion.
 
Imo the Duke PT is just a dumb pointless binding. Yes it's more robust than a shift but it uses a squire heel which is the worst on the market. Everyone here will shit on the shift because you do get prerelease in freestyle scenarios (landing spins or nose heavy), but I'd say you're same level skiier as me plus a little lighter/shorter and I've had no problems with them so that's what I'd go for. CAST is my favorite but it'd probably be overkill for you
 
14498324:Profahoben_212 said:
Seems really silly to be putting cast/duke pts/anything heavier than a freeraider on a 1600g ski. Your skis are going to give out well before freeraiders will imo. also seems odd that you are charging/spinning off cliffs on a 1600g ski. That sounds pretty rough to me. On the body and the skis.

If I were you, Id keep freeraiders on the 1600 g ski and then put cast on a beefier setup that wont be destroyed after a season of dropping cliffs. there are plenty of options sub 2000 still. Then you have mission skis and big sender skis....but that is just my opinion.
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Vision 108 is 1600g and you can ski pretty hard on them also a few other 1600-1700g skis you can push really fucking hard. But that doesn’t change that you can easily do all that charging on a freeraider or similar. Also for really gnarly stuff and mountain rescue situations(Akja steering) it’s nice to be able to lock them, but I guess that’s for a niche group
 
14498249:Simkiwinki said:
I don’t really see myself using anything between freeraider and cast.
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14498254:Raejnies said:
For a 1600g gram ski i probably would go lighter than freeraider.

maybe get a hypeman to inspire you and give you confidence to ski hard in pins.
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These two sum it up. I'm hoping to get on the Duke soon, maybe it's sick? But for me, there's no reason to shop for anything between FR 14 and Cast at this point. Cast is proven, durable, and easy to troubleshoot.

And yeah, the shop guy is full of shit, sure, there's a risk calculus to what I'll ski with pins vs alpine bindings, but 360's aren't part of it. Spin your FR 14's to your heart's content.

If you really want to "push your limits" you should look at a heavier ski, with Cast. But for a 1600g ski, the FR 14 is not the limiting factor.
 
Don't buy the Duke PT 12. The heel sucks ass and I've heard nothing but problems. I have the Duke PT 16's and really like them for my use case. No major complaints, but if I was really hucking shit on my touring skis, I would go cast.
 
Dynafit Rotations.

if you like the up you get from a pin binding but want something more burly than the freeraider for the down without the weight of the other options, the rotation is good as it’s now a heel with a proper forward pressure system, giving a much nicer elastic travel than the old school heel pin system with a tech gap. Also, with the rotating toe you get a much nicer lateral toe release than other pin alternatives.
 
14498843:FaunaSkis said:
Dynafit Rotations.

if you like the up you get from a pin binding but want something more burly than the freeraider for the down without the weight of the other options, the rotation is good as it’s now a heel with a proper forward pressure system, giving a much nicer elastic travel than the old school heel pin system with a tech gap. Also, with the rotating toe you get a much nicer lateral toe release than other pin alternatives.
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Dynafit Rotations don't release laterally at the toes, they release laterally at the heels. They are essentially a backwards Look Pivot, one side rotates so the other can laterally release easier. There are only a couple true pin bindings that have lateral toe release, I think Fritschi Tecton and Trab TR2 are the only ones I know of
 
14498856:IsaacNW82 said:
Dynafit Rotations don't release laterally at the toes, they release laterally at the heels. They are essentially a backwards Look Pivot, one side rotates so the other can laterally release easier. There are only a couple true pin bindings that have lateral toe release, I think Fritschi Tecton and Trab TR2 are the only ones I know of
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They release laterally at the toe at a set spring force, it’s just not adjustable like the others, assuming you’re not locking out the toe to ski and that’s what I was referring to.
 
14498843:FaunaSkis said:
Dynafit Rotations.

if you like the up you get from a pin binding but want something more burly than the freeraider for the down without the weight of the other options, the rotation is good as it’s now a heel with a proper forward pressure system, giving a much nicer elastic travel than the old school heel pin system with a tech gap. Also, with the rotating toe you get a much nicer lateral toe release than other pin alternatives.
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Uhm ATK Freeraiders have forward presure, so no tech gap. Also ATKs are burly af, like what are you really talking about? You clearly did not ski them since you say they have tech gap..
 
14498864:Ghini said:
Uhm ATK Freeraiders have forward presure, so no tech gap. Also ATKs are burly af, like what are you really talking about? You clearly did not ski them since you say they have tech gap..
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I’m not ragging on the atk durability, just feel the rotation is better.

They have a forward pressure spring but it’s a different system than the Dynafit. You do still have to adjust them to have a 4mm tech gap from the boot to the heel though, and so they still rely on the traditional longer pins flexing out for release aswell as some forward pressure spring action.

The rotations don’t need that 4mm, as they have a full forward pressure system and shorter pins
 
14498884:FaunaSkis said:
I’m not ragging on the atk durability, just feel the rotation is better.

They have a forward pressure spring but it’s a different system than the Dynafit. You do still have to adjust them to have a 4mm tech gap from the boot to the heel though, and so they still rely on the traditional longer pins flexing out for release aswell as some forward pressure spring action.

The rotations don’t need that 4mm, as they have a full forward pressure system and shorter pin
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i have the rotations 12s and had some ejecting when I was doing sidehit 1s which ended up exploding the brake system, but I also mobbed tucks without issues. forward skiing felt amazing but twisting was less so. Haven't been on many light pin bindings but Id take rotations over any duke, shift or kingpin despite the bad experience

got freeraider 16s on a deal thinking they'd be better for impacts and spins but I'm not super knowledgeable on tech bindings. I know the 16s have upgrades over the 14s. Hoping it's enough to moderately charge resort. At this point, I'm expecting 20 days 80/20 resort/tour on them since EC is cursed this season.

Any thoughts on using the 16s primarily inbound when the freeride spacer+shim are involved? I'm already committed but curious.
 
14498861:FaunaSkis said:
They release laterally at the toe at a set spring force, it’s just not adjustable like the others, assuming you’re not locking out the toe to ski and that’s what I was referring to.
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Again, no, that is not how typical pin bindings (including rotations) work. The toe piece will not release laterally, locked out or not. The boot is physically blocked by the toe pins, and in some cases, additional tabs.

On Dynafits, there are specific fixed metal tabs to prevent lateral toe release:

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Here's a great write up comparing lateral toe release (pin) to lateral heel release (alpine) bindings, including testing that show both type of bindings respective "blind spots" (where they are unable to release laterally): https://skimo.co/tech-binding-release-testing
 
I understand this thread is old, but I finally pulled the trigger this spring on a pair of duke pt 16s and put them on Nordica enforcer 104 unlimiteds (1760g). I am new to touring so I have nothing to compare to, but this seems like a good setup for what I need. I only had a couple days on them and short climbs (~1000') and they seemed to handle everything fine. Resort lapping with them is an obvious perk as they ski like a regular downhill binding. The transitions were easy, and I kept the toe pieces in zippered pockets unlike some other reviews. I also didn't mind the weight; I'll update after some longer climbs in October.
 
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