cyberginger
Member
Dirty30 COP from Distrikt on Vimeo.
New edit, +K for critique
New edit, +K for critique
Critique (+K)
- Thread starter cyberginger
- Start date
homestar
Active member
Overall I really liked it. I had to watch it a couple times to find stuff I would have changed. First, the Distrikt logo at the beginning needs a little work. I didn't really like the orange/yellow color gradient. Second, a lot of people on here are going to tell you not to use twixtor/whatever software you used to make the first shot. I don't really care but a lot of people don't like it. I tried playing it in HD and it seemed to be a little pixely and blurry and didn't really look 720p. This might be a rendering issue or its just the camera.
As far as stuff I liked, the stabilization was really good. It made the entire edit flow really well. The speed ramping was also great and moved along smoothly. The colors were pretty good and there isn't really anything I would have changed about them.
The ending seemed to come a little abruptly. I'm not sure if you're planning on adding more but if not, you should work on a way to end it.
As far as stuff I liked, the stabilization was really good. It made the entire edit flow really well. The speed ramping was also great and moved along smoothly. The colors were pretty good and there isn't really anything I would have changed about them.
The ending seemed to come a little abruptly. I'm not sure if you're planning on adding more but if not, you should work on a way to end it.
brighton__
Member
Really smooth, liked a lot. Good work!
caderobinson
Active member
Of it was up to me, id change the intro. Perhaps a shot of the lift or the skier hiking? Solid edit though
cyberginger
Member
Thanks for all the feedback guys!
The reason it ended so abruptly was I wanted to make the edit 30 seconds (Dirty 30), and at the end i didnt want to fade out to early to cut off the landing, which caused it to end quite quickly.
The reason it ended so abruptly was I wanted to make the edit 30 seconds (Dirty 30), and at the end i didnt want to fade out to early to cut off the landing, which caused it to end quite quickly.
mrbillgates
Member
One thing I love in a rail edit is when the skier is completely in the shots, or if he/she is not that you make sure you are focusing on their footwork on the rail. Does that make sense? Like when he lands, trying as best as possible to get his ski tips in the shot, or when he is at the top of the rainbow rail, that his head isn't being cut out….just a personal preference, maybe?
In terms of edit building, I have no idea. Looks pretty solid to me, cool speeding up/slowing down I guess? hahaha ZERO experience there.
In terms of edit building, I have no idea. Looks pretty solid to me, cool speeding up/slowing down I guess? hahaha ZERO experience there.
brighton__
Member
The filming was good, but slipping off rails was not
Superduploman
Member
Intro text looked like the ms wordart, a basic black text or something would have been more stylish and would gone better with the feel of the edit.
I would have had the two shots of the same rail together instead of putting another rail inbetween them, made it look repetetive (rail a, a, b instead of a, b, a haha). But that's just what I'd do, it didn't look bad at all. Otherwise it was really solid end well edited, props
I would have had the two shots of the same rail together instead of putting another rail inbetween them, made it look repetetive (rail a, a, b instead of a, b, a haha). But that's just what I'd do, it didn't look bad at all. Otherwise it was really solid end well edited, props
It has a nice vibe to it. Music and pace of editing works.
Here are two details that you can either try on the existing footage (or save for next)...
1. Skier's positions when cutting:
- when you are cutting out of a shot, try to have the skier coming in at exactly the same spot as the former skier was when he left.
Sounds weird? I'll try to explain: In the pic below I've pasted the last frame and the first frame in two shots that go back to back in your edit.
The left ring = skier is at that position when we leave the first shot – the right ring = skier enters the new shot at that position.
Now, the difference isn't huge, but imagine if the rings had been in exactly the same place?
That would mean that we'd leave the skier where the new one enters…
And that little difference would make the cut feel much smoother. The eye of the audience will not have to fly across the screen.
2. Skier's direction:
- now here comes another detail: The skiers in these two shots where going in the same direction – skiing from right to left in the frame.
Imagine what would happen if you'd use what was described in 1) above, and the second skier going from left to right. You would get an edit where the flow would go in opposite directions, instead of becoming repetitive.
You could plan your shots by filming from different angles – or get steal/buy/borrow and extra camera and shoot the same piece of action from two directions and cross-cut between them.
These are minor details but they will make the edit more dynamic and smooth at the same time.
Most people will not be able to tell why it flows better – but they will feel it, I promise!
Go with such tricks and keep the good vibe you've already created and you'll be editing like a pro in no time!
Cheers,
:: hkn ::
Here are two details that you can either try on the existing footage (or save for next)...
1. Skier's positions when cutting:
- when you are cutting out of a shot, try to have the skier coming in at exactly the same spot as the former skier was when he left.
Sounds weird? I'll try to explain: In the pic below I've pasted the last frame and the first frame in two shots that go back to back in your edit.
The left ring = skier is at that position when we leave the first shot – the right ring = skier enters the new shot at that position.
Now, the difference isn't huge, but imagine if the rings had been in exactly the same place?
That would mean that we'd leave the skier where the new one enters…
And that little difference would make the cut feel much smoother. The eye of the audience will not have to fly across the screen.
2. Skier's direction:
- now here comes another detail: The skiers in these two shots where going in the same direction – skiing from right to left in the frame.
Imagine what would happen if you'd use what was described in 1) above, and the second skier going from left to right. You would get an edit where the flow would go in opposite directions, instead of becoming repetitive.
You could plan your shots by filming from different angles – or get steal/buy/borrow and extra camera and shoot the same piece of action from two directions and cross-cut between them.
These are minor details but they will make the edit more dynamic and smooth at the same time.
Most people will not be able to tell why it flows better – but they will feel it, I promise!
Go with such tricks and keep the good vibe you've already created and you'll be editing like a pro in no time!
Cheers,
:: hkn ::
Brentizzle
Active member
there is the exact same front 4 in there twice
cyberginger
Member
I know, I fucked up and didn't notice until it was uploaded
cyberginger
Member
Holy, man. Looks like you took a lot of time to write that, really helpful. I filmed a little today, and I'll try that out.
It makes a lot of sense that when the skier is in different spots it would make the viewers eye dart around.
Thanks for the help! It means a lot.
It makes a lot of sense that when the skier is in different spots it would make the viewers eye dart around.
Thanks for the help! It means a lot.
Thanks guys,
and no – it didn't actually take that long to write. It's pretty basic stuff that some really crazy-good editors told me, and I'm only happy to spread their knowledge.
Then there's other little tricks. These are more for shooting but they sure will help editing...
1. Let your skier ski towards the camera and fill the image completely.
No he doesn't have to crash into the lens. Just let the person you're shooting ski towards the camera and come close and closer until jacket, glove or pants will fill the frame completely.
The good thing: The screen will most likely turn dark. Now you're free to cut into anything that you want. Wide shot of a landscape, tele-lens shot of a detail or normal torso shot… as soon as the frame has been filled up you can start over again.
2. If you are taking a shot of something static – leave the shot by going from focus to unfocus.
Let's say that you have a rail. Skier enters the image passes you on the rail and leaves the frame. You may let the camera stay on the rail. As soon as the rail is just there without the skiers, pull the focus so that the shot goes from sharp to blurred.
It's a little like filling the image. The blurred final frames of your shot will let you start over with something anything new (going from blurred to blurred rarely works – going from blurred to shape will almost always work nicely).
It's weird but making this focus pull to leave the shot has saved me more times that I want to admit.
3. Use a B-roll
This is filmmaker terminology. The B-roll is footage of something that helps to set the scene (look, we're in the park in Breck!) or reveal a detail (look, my buddy's wearing Full Tilts!). So, during a day on the mountain when you're filming someone skiing, don't forget to also film lift chairs passing by, trees, signs, flags on the kickers in Breck, a glove that someone dropped and blablabla… You will notice how often you will not want to cut directly between people or scenes, but want to fill a gap with something different.
And get both wide pics and details. Make pans from the top of the mountain (from the top of the pipe, at the in-run… places where you start skiing are extra useful).
Just one thing: Make sure that the B-roll is shot the same day, in the same weather and the same hours (same light temperature) so that you're not mixing time and space too much.
I've noticed how often I'm wanting to get stuff in that's not just the actual action, so these days I make sure that I come home with a little library of these shots.
The sweet thing about these tricks; you don't have to think much ahead. When it comes to camera angles and directions of the skier you'd better plan. These things, you just do on the fly.
Gonna stop here for today. Hope it helps.
Cheers,
:: hkn ::
and no – it didn't actually take that long to write. It's pretty basic stuff that some really crazy-good editors told me, and I'm only happy to spread their knowledge.
Then there's other little tricks. These are more for shooting but they sure will help editing...
1. Let your skier ski towards the camera and fill the image completely.
No he doesn't have to crash into the lens. Just let the person you're shooting ski towards the camera and come close and closer until jacket, glove or pants will fill the frame completely.
The good thing: The screen will most likely turn dark. Now you're free to cut into anything that you want. Wide shot of a landscape, tele-lens shot of a detail or normal torso shot… as soon as the frame has been filled up you can start over again.
2. If you are taking a shot of something static – leave the shot by going from focus to unfocus.
Let's say that you have a rail. Skier enters the image passes you on the rail and leaves the frame. You may let the camera stay on the rail. As soon as the rail is just there without the skiers, pull the focus so that the shot goes from sharp to blurred.
It's a little like filling the image. The blurred final frames of your shot will let you start over with something anything new (going from blurred to blurred rarely works – going from blurred to shape will almost always work nicely).
It's weird but making this focus pull to leave the shot has saved me more times that I want to admit.
3. Use a B-roll
This is filmmaker terminology. The B-roll is footage of something that helps to set the scene (look, we're in the park in Breck!) or reveal a detail (look, my buddy's wearing Full Tilts!). So, during a day on the mountain when you're filming someone skiing, don't forget to also film lift chairs passing by, trees, signs, flags on the kickers in Breck, a glove that someone dropped and blablabla… You will notice how often you will not want to cut directly between people or scenes, but want to fill a gap with something different.
And get both wide pics and details. Make pans from the top of the mountain (from the top of the pipe, at the in-run… places where you start skiing are extra useful).
Just one thing: Make sure that the B-roll is shot the same day, in the same weather and the same hours (same light temperature) so that you're not mixing time and space too much.
I've noticed how often I'm wanting to get stuff in that's not just the actual action, so these days I make sure that I come home with a little library of these shots.
The sweet thing about these tricks; you don't have to think much ahead. When it comes to camera angles and directions of the skier you'd better plan. These things, you just do on the fly.
Gonna stop here for today. Hope it helps.
Cheers,
:: hkn ::
caderobinson
Active member
Damn +k. Would all of this go for regular edits as well? Like filming some tramp at a gym?
Thanks!
Yep. For regular edits. For Bond-movies. For documentaries. For "Seven Samurai".
It's all standard techniques for editors.
The only thing that will not apply is porn, as it is considered better the more amateurish it looks.
Today's two tricks of the trade (they are sort of the same thing):
Plan it so that it flows.
Plan the angles you will be shooting from.
Not saying you need to be a storyboard anything, but most edits will get a lot better with a little bit of planning.
How? Well, a very basic thing will always affect us. And it helps us to plan our shots.
Gravity. We start at the top of the mountain. That gives us a starting point (sure, it could be when you're getting into the gondola as well). Start the edit when you start editing the skiing...
…the shots won't have to be from the same day and they don't have to blend seamlessly into each other, but there's a simple logic behind starting your edit or your segment at the top of the mountain/pipe/slopestyle course – and finish the edit at the bottom. That creates a flow that the viewer will have absolutely zero problem to follow.
Sometimes it's OK to mess with logics.
Your audience will accept a lot of weird shit. Like a guy in a red/blue suit who shoots spider web. Or animals that talk. Or your friend skiing dressed as a carrot. You don't even have to explain it. It just is.
But what they will always find difficult to comprehend is why the same guy was wearing three different jackets in the same edit – if it appeared to be shot during the same day.
Of it he's appearing to bounce around the mountain with no direction. Shot from the bottom of a run, mixed with a shot from the top and then jump-cut to the middle.
It's not that they think – ”Oh, Scotty beamed him up!” They will just feel that the edit is messy and you don't care.
Continuity is part of what makes a story work for people. Make it simple.
9 out of 10 times simple will make it better!
:: hkn ::
Yep. For regular edits. For Bond-movies. For documentaries. For "Seven Samurai".
It's all standard techniques for editors.
The only thing that will not apply is porn, as it is considered better the more amateurish it looks.
Today's two tricks of the trade (they are sort of the same thing):
Plan it so that it flows.
Plan the angles you will be shooting from.
Not saying you need to be a storyboard anything, but most edits will get a lot better with a little bit of planning.
How? Well, a very basic thing will always affect us. And it helps us to plan our shots.
Gravity. We start at the top of the mountain. That gives us a starting point (sure, it could be when you're getting into the gondola as well). Start the edit when you start editing the skiing...
…the shots won't have to be from the same day and they don't have to blend seamlessly into each other, but there's a simple logic behind starting your edit or your segment at the top of the mountain/pipe/slopestyle course – and finish the edit at the bottom. That creates a flow that the viewer will have absolutely zero problem to follow.
Sometimes it's OK to mess with logics.
Your audience will accept a lot of weird shit. Like a guy in a red/blue suit who shoots spider web. Or animals that talk. Or your friend skiing dressed as a carrot. You don't even have to explain it. It just is.
But what they will always find difficult to comprehend is why the same guy was wearing three different jackets in the same edit – if it appeared to be shot during the same day.
Of it he's appearing to bounce around the mountain with no direction. Shot from the bottom of a run, mixed with a shot from the top and then jump-cut to the middle.
It's not that they think – ”Oh, Scotty beamed him up!” They will just feel that the edit is messy and you don't care.
Continuity is part of what makes a story work for people. Make it simple.
9 out of 10 times simple will make it better!
:: hkn ::
caderobinson
Active member
Holy shit dude, thanks a bunch, will incorporate a bunch of this into my next edit. How the hell do you know this much? Hahaha
Haha… thanks, just tell if it made life easier or if it became messy.
Getting serious about your edits shouldn't take away from the fun of it (and if you're just up on the mountain to enjoy a sweet day, friends may start to get pissed if you're acting it out like Spielberg).
Most of these things are pretty easy to organize and won't really wreck your day.
But I quickly found that there are days when I want to be serious about filming as well – and then I tell my boys about it (it normally means that I'm buying them the first round when we're done skiing, to thank them for being patient).
Two more crazy simple things and one more complicated:
The establishing shot.
Your audience may want to understand where you are and how many people who will be involved in the edit. This is again because you can pull off a lot of shit but not mess with simple logic.
Example: If I would go out skiing with three friends, the first thing I'd make sure I get in my camera, is a shot when sitting in a quad chair. I'd take the 1st or the 4th seat and then point the camera towards them.
Bang. Mission accomplished. In one frame I have now told the viewer that there will be three guys in the edit and we are now about to start skiing.
Thanks to this simple shot, there will be no surprises when a new guy starts sending it off a jump.
The audience already 'know' him/her. And you don't have to do the quad chair thing. Get a shot of the group unloading your car or getting out of your lodge. You get the idea.
The powerful guy shot.
If you are about to make an edit with a friend for, say a video qual, you need to establish him/her as the hero; the powerful hero who would whip the asses of Joss/Gus/Nick. Or, well…yeah. Something like that. How to do that? Make sure that you get a lot of low angles of your hero.
You can see this in any movie. If a person is shot from underneath or a low angle, it's because the director wants us to feel small, and the person in the frame look big.
If a person looks big in a shot, we will instinctively believe that he/she is powerful. Strange, but we will.
The zolly shot.
Now, here is where we get to a level where it will not just happen. You may need to practice it a few times (read; many times). A filmmaker trick known as the zolly = zoom and dolly.
- The zoom is simply zooming in your subject (person or object). That can be hard enough as you want that to look smooth and classy. Takes a lot of shooting and practice to get comfortable with (some cameras make it easier, but I'll skip that part for now…).
- The dolly part is moving your camera. In a big Hollywood production you do this by putting the camera on a little wagon that runs on a rail. You could also use a SteadiCam. These aren't exactly common to bring with you to a mountain. But we have something else – skis!
To create a zolly shot you start your camera, then let yourself ski backwards while zooming at the same time.
If you are skilled, and practiced it a lot, you will be able to zoom at the same speed as you're going backwards with = the guy in the frame will be of the same size but the audience will see less and less of the background as you zoom in.
Sound weird? Here's a link to a shot from Godfellas. De Niro and Ray Liotta are just talking but the whole background changes as the DOP let his camera guy zoom in.
The tough part for any of us won't be the skiing. It will be the zooming. If you're using a 5D or similar, zooming can be a bitch. Just try to be crazy smooth and make it in one firm turn. When it works, you have a banger shot.
End of today's lesson.
:: hkn ::
Getting serious about your edits shouldn't take away from the fun of it (and if you're just up on the mountain to enjoy a sweet day, friends may start to get pissed if you're acting it out like Spielberg).
Most of these things are pretty easy to organize and won't really wreck your day.
But I quickly found that there are days when I want to be serious about filming as well – and then I tell my boys about it (it normally means that I'm buying them the first round when we're done skiing, to thank them for being patient).
Two more crazy simple things and one more complicated:
The establishing shot.
Your audience may want to understand where you are and how many people who will be involved in the edit. This is again because you can pull off a lot of shit but not mess with simple logic.
Example: If I would go out skiing with three friends, the first thing I'd make sure I get in my camera, is a shot when sitting in a quad chair. I'd take the 1st or the 4th seat and then point the camera towards them.
Bang. Mission accomplished. In one frame I have now told the viewer that there will be three guys in the edit and we are now about to start skiing.
Thanks to this simple shot, there will be no surprises when a new guy starts sending it off a jump.
The audience already 'know' him/her. And you don't have to do the quad chair thing. Get a shot of the group unloading your car or getting out of your lodge. You get the idea.
The powerful guy shot.
If you are about to make an edit with a friend for, say a video qual, you need to establish him/her as the hero; the powerful hero who would whip the asses of Joss/Gus/Nick. Or, well…yeah. Something like that. How to do that? Make sure that you get a lot of low angles of your hero.
You can see this in any movie. If a person is shot from underneath or a low angle, it's because the director wants us to feel small, and the person in the frame look big.
If a person looks big in a shot, we will instinctively believe that he/she is powerful. Strange, but we will.
The zolly shot.
Now, here is where we get to a level where it will not just happen. You may need to practice it a few times (read; many times). A filmmaker trick known as the zolly = zoom and dolly.
- The zoom is simply zooming in your subject (person or object). That can be hard enough as you want that to look smooth and classy. Takes a lot of shooting and practice to get comfortable with (some cameras make it easier, but I'll skip that part for now…).
- The dolly part is moving your camera. In a big Hollywood production you do this by putting the camera on a little wagon that runs on a rail. You could also use a SteadiCam. These aren't exactly common to bring with you to a mountain. But we have something else – skis!
To create a zolly shot you start your camera, then let yourself ski backwards while zooming at the same time.
If you are skilled, and practiced it a lot, you will be able to zoom at the same speed as you're going backwards with = the guy in the frame will be of the same size but the audience will see less and less of the background as you zoom in.
Sound weird? Here's a link to a shot from Godfellas. De Niro and Ray Liotta are just talking but the whole background changes as the DOP let his camera guy zoom in.
The tough part for any of us won't be the skiing. It will be the zooming. If you're using a 5D or similar, zooming can be a bitch. Just try to be crazy smooth and make it in one firm turn. When it works, you have a banger shot.
End of today's lesson.
:: hkn ::
raymondcabral
Member
Holy shit you are a mad bro. All this advice is ill! Thanks a bunch!! +K
Well, thank you, raymond!
Today's two little tricks:
Whenever you can, cut in movement.
It's an old rule among editors, but it doesn't really apply to us who are making edits with friends skiing, it's more something that you may keep in mind for the shots that you don't take on the mountain.
Example: If your friend is getting entering the lodge from the hallway, you cut into the shot when he's moving into the room and cut of it when his ass is touching the chair.
You don't need to spend a few seconds on an empty hallway. Neither do the audience need to watch him sitting down.
You want the space between the beginning and the end of the action in your edit.
With this being said, we as skiers often want to see our friends land/stomp/pretzel off a rail, but a very common mistake is to leave a few dead frames between shots. It's a timing thing.
But… don't mix this with what you need to capture. You always need to have the camera going before the action starts – and stop it way after the action ends. There's a reason for directors to go: ”…annnnddd… Cut!!” at shootings. They want to make sure that they've captured the entire scene.
Don't be too relevant. Don't show too much.
I've seen a few edits here on NS lately that are very well made. The cuts are made to the music. The skiing is legit. The exposure is fine. The follow-cam follows. All is good. And it's boring. Especially after cutting between a few shots with the same type of action repeated.
I get bored because of a few things. The angle. The framing. And repeating it.
The problem is often this: The filmer shots a skier from a 9-12 feet distance. More or less in the middle of the frame. It's like the guy with the camera either wants to prove that the skier actually was there or that he (it's almost always a guy) is capable of keeping the skier in the middle.
But what if you could get closer?
Get your most wide angle lens on. Have a focal length of 14-18 mm or so and then get really, really close to your skier. It's scary as hell and it takes a lot more training, but… I'm pretty sure that you will find the tight shot of your buddy going off the rail more useful than another
9-12 feet shot. At least you will be able to interrupt the politely captured action with a crazy close-up.
Don't you have a wide angle lens? (no, you don't have to go fisheye here) Well, I'm pretty sure that you know someone who has a GoPro. And they come with a pretty wide lens. Just make sure that you get crazy close. How close? Get so close that the tip of the ski is out of focus (yeah, focus should be on the skier if you don't have a very good reason to focus on something else).
You may want to keep this in mind:
Filmmaking is not about showing someone going on and off a rail.
Filmmaking is all about making people react because a crazy dude went on a rail and the whole room suddenly went spinning.
It's about people's reactions. If you're able to manipulate their minds, they will react.
More about camera angles + camera movement tomorrow. It's late here. And no snow.
Cheers,
:: hkn ::
Today's two little tricks:
Whenever you can, cut in movement.
It's an old rule among editors, but it doesn't really apply to us who are making edits with friends skiing, it's more something that you may keep in mind for the shots that you don't take on the mountain.
Example: If your friend is getting entering the lodge from the hallway, you cut into the shot when he's moving into the room and cut of it when his ass is touching the chair.
You don't need to spend a few seconds on an empty hallway. Neither do the audience need to watch him sitting down.
You want the space between the beginning and the end of the action in your edit.
With this being said, we as skiers often want to see our friends land/stomp/pretzel off a rail, but a very common mistake is to leave a few dead frames between shots. It's a timing thing.
But… don't mix this with what you need to capture. You always need to have the camera going before the action starts – and stop it way after the action ends. There's a reason for directors to go: ”…annnnddd… Cut!!” at shootings. They want to make sure that they've captured the entire scene.
Don't be too relevant. Don't show too much.
I've seen a few edits here on NS lately that are very well made. The cuts are made to the music. The skiing is legit. The exposure is fine. The follow-cam follows. All is good. And it's boring. Especially after cutting between a few shots with the same type of action repeated.
I get bored because of a few things. The angle. The framing. And repeating it.
The problem is often this: The filmer shots a skier from a 9-12 feet distance. More or less in the middle of the frame. It's like the guy with the camera either wants to prove that the skier actually was there or that he (it's almost always a guy) is capable of keeping the skier in the middle.
But what if you could get closer?
Get your most wide angle lens on. Have a focal length of 14-18 mm or so and then get really, really close to your skier. It's scary as hell and it takes a lot more training, but… I'm pretty sure that you will find the tight shot of your buddy going off the rail more useful than another
9-12 feet shot. At least you will be able to interrupt the politely captured action with a crazy close-up.
Don't you have a wide angle lens? (no, you don't have to go fisheye here) Well, I'm pretty sure that you know someone who has a GoPro. And they come with a pretty wide lens. Just make sure that you get crazy close. How close? Get so close that the tip of the ski is out of focus (yeah, focus should be on the skier if you don't have a very good reason to focus on something else).
You may want to keep this in mind:
Filmmaking is not about showing someone going on and off a rail.
Filmmaking is all about making people react because a crazy dude went on a rail and the whole room suddenly went spinning.
It's about people's reactions. If you're able to manipulate their minds, they will react.
More about camera angles + camera movement tomorrow. It's late here. And no snow.
Cheers,
:: hkn ::
cyberginger
Member
HKN for member of the month
cydwhit
Active member
Threads for a bunch of stuff I know in theory but barely ever put into practice, thanks for making all this stuff relevant to skiing. And if somebody can get a cinema quality zolly shot of skiing then my mind will be blown. I have tried plenty with a static subject and it is hard to get anything worthwhile.
Would love to see a proper zolly shot as well.
In theory, I'd say that such a shot would be easier when shooting skiing.
As long as you shoot a static subject there would be less tolerance for
the zooming not being smooth enough. Skier = movement = more tolerance.
- - - - -
Today's trick of the trade: Camera angles; the 30-degree rule
Back to the otherwise well produced shot that bores me a little.
Reason: Static angles. Things get repetitive.
Is there a medicine for this disease? Yep there is. And it's not very hard to swallow.
There's an old rule for editing, called the 30-degree rule.
It says that the camera should move at least 30 degrees between shots of the same subject (skier).
Why is that good? Because it makes the shots different enough.
That means that the audience will have so many new things to consider that they will concentrate on the action.
The same skier shot from the same angle will mean that the audience will start to notice other things; like how the skier is dressed or the fact that the camera is rocking or other things not too relevant to what's going on.
My personal rule, when shooting skiing (or action without dialogue), is to make the edit more dynamic by having a minimum of 45 degree difference between camera angles. Plus to shift between medium shots and extreme close-ups.
As they say in one of the textbooks of filming: "…each cut must be motivated.”
Meaning: Enough things need to change to between shots or you won't need to cut in between them.
(don't push it too far, though. It must not be so different that the viewer must re-evaluate the whole thing)
There's more. Will be back soon,
:: hkn ::
PS. Thanks for the cheers guys. Just happy if it helps to make edits better.
Just as long as it doesn't' take away the fun of skiing...
In theory, I'd say that such a shot would be easier when shooting skiing.
As long as you shoot a static subject there would be less tolerance for
the zooming not being smooth enough. Skier = movement = more tolerance.
- - - - -
Today's trick of the trade: Camera angles; the 30-degree rule
Back to the otherwise well produced shot that bores me a little.
Reason: Static angles. Things get repetitive.
Is there a medicine for this disease? Yep there is. And it's not very hard to swallow.
There's an old rule for editing, called the 30-degree rule.
It says that the camera should move at least 30 degrees between shots of the same subject (skier).
Why is that good? Because it makes the shots different enough.
That means that the audience will have so many new things to consider that they will concentrate on the action.
The same skier shot from the same angle will mean that the audience will start to notice other things; like how the skier is dressed or the fact that the camera is rocking or other things not too relevant to what's going on.
My personal rule, when shooting skiing (or action without dialogue), is to make the edit more dynamic by having a minimum of 45 degree difference between camera angles. Plus to shift between medium shots and extreme close-ups.
As they say in one of the textbooks of filming: "…each cut must be motivated.”
Meaning: Enough things need to change to between shots or you won't need to cut in between them.
(don't push it too far, though. It must not be so different that the viewer must re-evaluate the whole thing)
There's more. Will be back soon,
:: hkn ::
PS. Thanks for the cheers guys. Just happy if it helps to make edits better.
Just as long as it doesn't' take away the fun of skiing...
As always, thanks for the cheer… this can go on for a while. There are a million things that together make an edit, so… let's continue with something about camera movement.
Most of the edits you see here and elsewhere will have moving cameras. Thanks to GoPros and 7Ds, those are not too hard to shoot anymore. This may sound very basic but here goes:
Add a dingle to a sideway tracking shot
Moving cameras are either POV with GoPros or, even more often, follow-cam shots (you're shooting your friend hitting a feature).
But most of them are the same kind of shots. You follow the skier from 9-15 feet and you struggle to keep it steady and in focus. When you're successful, you're happy.
Or, in the park you have a rail/kicker/pipe somewhere. Your friend drops in and you struggle to keep the focus + doing everything else right. You make it. Again, you're happy.
But let me guess; 9 out of 10 times, there's nothing between you and the feature your friend is hitting.
That's when you may add a dingle.
A few years ago, at JOSS, somebody was yelling at me from behind some trees.
I was a bit surprised as I didn't really fell that I was in someone's way (I was shooting stills at the time). But under the trees sat Drew ”the Fatman” Lederer. He had a tiny dolly and was moving the camera on it, but the main thing for him sitting there was to get something in between himself and the feature – in this case a few tree branches. Those branches = the dingle.
The branches were of course out of focus, which is the whole idea. You should always have your main focus on the action.
(note to self: will probably post something about dollys and glidecam-stuff soon but let's not get too detailed about gear now).
I still remember those shots that Drew got at JOSS. They added some depth to a subject that everyone else was shooting. It was smart. It made the edit more dynamic. If not over-used it can provide the right kind of distraction.
Q: What can you do to create a similar effect?
A: Try to shoot from a distance with something between you and the feature – a fence, tree branches etc. The effect will be greater if you use a longer focal length (tele lens of minimum 200 mm).
Or – even more simple – if you're going for a planned follow-cam shot, put another friend between you and the rail your main actor is hitting. The person just need to stand there. No acting necessary.
The whole point is to make stuff less static. To add depth. To mess a little with the viewers perception without ever losing touch with the action.
Spielberg is the master of these tracking shots with the feeling of parallax (I know that he has a different budget than you and me).
Kubrick used to cut tree branches and put them in front of the lens in the right position (you can do that as well if you don't want to sit under the trees like Drew).
Soon: More about dollys and parallax. Now it's fucking late here.
Cheers,
:: hkn ::
Most of the edits you see here and elsewhere will have moving cameras. Thanks to GoPros and 7Ds, those are not too hard to shoot anymore. This may sound very basic but here goes:
Add a dingle to a sideway tracking shot
Moving cameras are either POV with GoPros or, even more often, follow-cam shots (you're shooting your friend hitting a feature).
But most of them are the same kind of shots. You follow the skier from 9-15 feet and you struggle to keep it steady and in focus. When you're successful, you're happy.
Or, in the park you have a rail/kicker/pipe somewhere. Your friend drops in and you struggle to keep the focus + doing everything else right. You make it. Again, you're happy.
But let me guess; 9 out of 10 times, there's nothing between you and the feature your friend is hitting.
That's when you may add a dingle.
A few years ago, at JOSS, somebody was yelling at me from behind some trees.
I was a bit surprised as I didn't really fell that I was in someone's way (I was shooting stills at the time). But under the trees sat Drew ”the Fatman” Lederer. He had a tiny dolly and was moving the camera on it, but the main thing for him sitting there was to get something in between himself and the feature – in this case a few tree branches. Those branches = the dingle.
The branches were of course out of focus, which is the whole idea. You should always have your main focus on the action.
(note to self: will probably post something about dollys and glidecam-stuff soon but let's not get too detailed about gear now).
I still remember those shots that Drew got at JOSS. They added some depth to a subject that everyone else was shooting. It was smart. It made the edit more dynamic. If not over-used it can provide the right kind of distraction.
Q: What can you do to create a similar effect?
A: Try to shoot from a distance with something between you and the feature – a fence, tree branches etc. The effect will be greater if you use a longer focal length (tele lens of minimum 200 mm).
Or – even more simple – if you're going for a planned follow-cam shot, put another friend between you and the rail your main actor is hitting. The person just need to stand there. No acting necessary.
The whole point is to make stuff less static. To add depth. To mess a little with the viewers perception without ever losing touch with the action.
Spielberg is the master of these tracking shots with the feeling of parallax (I know that he has a different budget than you and me).
Kubrick used to cut tree branches and put them in front of the lens in the right position (you can do that as well if you don't want to sit under the trees like Drew).
Soon: More about dollys and parallax. Now it's fucking late here.
Cheers,
:: hkn ::
feedmestraycat
New member
Props for MF doom being used
TheStudioCC
Active member
Good job dude!!!! if I were you i would just add some more filler shots remember your making a video for people to watch although people like to se tricks you need something to break it up and make it smooooth!!!
ThundaKilla
Active member
Threads fo sho
FrysNation
Member
Threads, this is so helpful!
kylemclean
Member
Threads for some unreal advice
j.benziger
Member
threads with that really good advice
Yohoo, long time since.
Realized that I was promising something about camera movement using a little rail.
These rail-thingies are funky items I've been experimenting with a little lately as I'm currently shooting a documentary on BASE jumping. So, here it comes;
CAMERA MOVEMENT USING A SLIDER/SHORT RAIL:
- the basics: It's a metal rail thing with a slider mounted on top of it. It's design to move/slide smoothly on top of the rail. On the slider itself, there's a thumbscrew that you mount your camera on. When attached, you simply slide the camera along the rail by pushing it sideways.
The rail can be mounted on top of a tripod or just placed on the ground (mine comes with small feet).
I'm using the predecessor to the Glidetrack Aero SD (click here, it's a link). It's just over half a meter long.
- at first it felt a little odd to bring a rail attached to my backpack (when going up on a mountain to stay there for a week every gram counts). But I soon found out how much more value some slow and subtle camera moves will add to the production.
It's good for slow camera movement.
If I'm on skis I'm doing a lot of follow-caming + I'm also skiing/running around with a SteadyCam. Fast camera movement is rarely a problem when shooting the stuff we like to shoot. But the big improvements will be the small things we add; i.e. the slow stuff.
Let's use this clip from a friend/pretty accomplished film-maker as an example:
- - - - - - -
Day in the Life of Tom Knox – shot by Josh Knox (who was one of the camera guys for Team America during JOSS 2010). Check these sliding moments out:
0:12 Tom dresses
0:15 another shot of him dressing
0:21 making pancakes.
2:27 camera moves sideways while Tom does the kickflip
2:41 same kind of subtle movement while Tom grinds that concrete wall
- sure, Josh used a crane + a lot of handheld panning and fast camera moves in this edit, but... in my book it's those smooth and subtle things that are adding the extra oomph to the production. Don't you agree?
- the trick to great sliding shots is to use any object that is close to the camera. In the 0:21 shot of Day in the Life... where Tom is making pancakes, the effect of the camera on the slider is so much greater because of the parallax effect (maybe the phenomena of parallax will become a new post one day).
- in short, when you have only a short rail, you must have things close to the camera to get the most out of the sliding cam, otherwise you'll need a long-ass rail (try to bring that with you on the mountain...).
- - - - - - -
Static cams – if everything moves, your audience will get seasick.
I bet that Josh's edit would be completely unwatchable if everything was moving, sliding, panning and floating around, therefore... let's check out some static shots.
- note the static shots at 1:06 and 1:10. Tom is constantly moving, skating into the frame and out. Camera is completely still.
- the close up static shot at 1:30 – where he let's Tom skate into focus and out out of it – and at 2:10 where Tom passes by in pretty perfect sharpness with a very short depth of field.
- the 1:30 and 2:10 shots need a little more planning, but they're by no means complicated to shoot. You basically just set the sharpness on a spot and then make sure that your friend will skate/move/ski just there.
If you ask me, these shots add a lot to the total flow of the entire edit. Josh didn't do much extra work to get them but like most good filmmakers, he planned for them to be shot and did it.
It's like the Godfather of Soul, James Brown, used to say: ”Silence is a rhythm too...”
End of lecture. Have a good one, friends!
Realized that I was promising something about camera movement using a little rail.
These rail-thingies are funky items I've been experimenting with a little lately as I'm currently shooting a documentary on BASE jumping. So, here it comes;
CAMERA MOVEMENT USING A SLIDER/SHORT RAIL:
- the basics: It's a metal rail thing with a slider mounted on top of it. It's design to move/slide smoothly on top of the rail. On the slider itself, there's a thumbscrew that you mount your camera on. When attached, you simply slide the camera along the rail by pushing it sideways.
The rail can be mounted on top of a tripod or just placed on the ground (mine comes with small feet).
I'm using the predecessor to the Glidetrack Aero SD (click here, it's a link). It's just over half a meter long.
- at first it felt a little odd to bring a rail attached to my backpack (when going up on a mountain to stay there for a week every gram counts). But I soon found out how much more value some slow and subtle camera moves will add to the production.
It's good for slow camera movement.
If I'm on skis I'm doing a lot of follow-caming + I'm also skiing/running around with a SteadyCam. Fast camera movement is rarely a problem when shooting the stuff we like to shoot. But the big improvements will be the small things we add; i.e. the slow stuff.
Let's use this clip from a friend/pretty accomplished film-maker as an example:
- - - - - - -
Day in the Life of Tom Knox – shot by Josh Knox (who was one of the camera guys for Team America during JOSS 2010). Check these sliding moments out:
0:12 Tom dresses
0:15 another shot of him dressing
0:21 making pancakes.
2:27 camera moves sideways while Tom does the kickflip
2:41 same kind of subtle movement while Tom grinds that concrete wall
- sure, Josh used a crane + a lot of handheld panning and fast camera moves in this edit, but... in my book it's those smooth and subtle things that are adding the extra oomph to the production. Don't you agree?
- the trick to great sliding shots is to use any object that is close to the camera. In the 0:21 shot of Day in the Life... where Tom is making pancakes, the effect of the camera on the slider is so much greater because of the parallax effect (maybe the phenomena of parallax will become a new post one day).
- in short, when you have only a short rail, you must have things close to the camera to get the most out of the sliding cam, otherwise you'll need a long-ass rail (try to bring that with you on the mountain...).
- - - - - - -
Static cams – if everything moves, your audience will get seasick.
I bet that Josh's edit would be completely unwatchable if everything was moving, sliding, panning and floating around, therefore... let's check out some static shots.
- note the static shots at 1:06 and 1:10. Tom is constantly moving, skating into the frame and out. Camera is completely still.
- the close up static shot at 1:30 – where he let's Tom skate into focus and out out of it – and at 2:10 where Tom passes by in pretty perfect sharpness with a very short depth of field.
- the 1:30 and 2:10 shots need a little more planning, but they're by no means complicated to shoot. You basically just set the sharpness on a spot and then make sure that your friend will skate/move/ski just there.
If you ask me, these shots add a lot to the total flow of the entire edit. Josh didn't do much extra work to get them but like most good filmmakers, he planned for them to be shot and did it.
It's like the Godfather of Soul, James Brown, used to say: ”Silence is a rhythm too...”
End of lecture. Have a good one, friends!
.undetected
Active member
THREADS
This one I've been thinking about for a while.
It's so stupid that it shouldn't have to be a post about it, but here goes:
SHOOT CLOSE - OR YOUR STUFF WON'T BE SEEN
This is a reality. And it has already affected shooting and editing as we know it.
In the old days, filmers could shoot anything they wanted, knowing that their creations would be shown on a gargantuan movie screen (about 55 ft wide and 23 ft high).
But today, more and more films are being watched in handheld devices... or your personal screen when flying or you may simply watch stuff through Vimeo or YouTube, meaning that the filmmaker has to create something that makes sense in a tiny window, 640 pixels or so wide.
Personally, I don't really like where this is going. Just count the irritating numbers of close-ups and zoom-ins of actors' faces the next time you watch a blockbuster movie - Hollywood filmmakers have been adapting to the smaller screen formats for quite a while now.
As filmmakers we just have to roll with it. In this case, the audience is always right. Even if you make an edit that looks killer on your 27 inch iMac screen, it doesn't make sense if 90% of the views will be on an iPhone.
Back to what it means for you when filming skiing (and everything else):
GET CLOSER!
AND WATCH OUT FOR ALL THAT NOSE HAIR!
Plan your shots so that the details will be seen. Get close to your subjects. Shoot details and shoot lots of closeups. Lot's of them.
• Harsh reality: At 640 pixels, even a medium-close-up (how you normally frame while interviewing) is too wide for us to see the details we need to see. So decide what is important in a shot and get closer to that.
• If you're documenting your friend's skills on rails, mount that wide-angle or fisheye lens and do follow-cams from a crazy close distance.
• If you are shooting close-ups of faces, make sure your mates trim their nasal hair.
Not joking here. You'll be surprised by all the weird things that will fill become very visible when shooting anything close - and if you're serious about filming, you'd better pay attention to those things; including open zippers, ugly teeth, zits and, yeah... nose hair.
Will be back soon-ish. In the meantime, be good.
Cheers,
:: hkn ::
It's so stupid that it shouldn't have to be a post about it, but here goes:
SHOOT CLOSE - OR YOUR STUFF WON'T BE SEEN
This is a reality. And it has already affected shooting and editing as we know it.
In the old days, filmers could shoot anything they wanted, knowing that their creations would be shown on a gargantuan movie screen (about 55 ft wide and 23 ft high).
But today, more and more films are being watched in handheld devices... or your personal screen when flying or you may simply watch stuff through Vimeo or YouTube, meaning that the filmmaker has to create something that makes sense in a tiny window, 640 pixels or so wide.
Personally, I don't really like where this is going. Just count the irritating numbers of close-ups and zoom-ins of actors' faces the next time you watch a blockbuster movie - Hollywood filmmakers have been adapting to the smaller screen formats for quite a while now.
As filmmakers we just have to roll with it. In this case, the audience is always right. Even if you make an edit that looks killer on your 27 inch iMac screen, it doesn't make sense if 90% of the views will be on an iPhone.
Back to what it means for you when filming skiing (and everything else):
GET CLOSER!
AND WATCH OUT FOR ALL THAT NOSE HAIR!
Plan your shots so that the details will be seen. Get close to your subjects. Shoot details and shoot lots of closeups. Lot's of them.
• Harsh reality: At 640 pixels, even a medium-close-up (how you normally frame while interviewing) is too wide for us to see the details we need to see. So decide what is important in a shot and get closer to that.
• If you're documenting your friend's skills on rails, mount that wide-angle or fisheye lens and do follow-cams from a crazy close distance.
• If you are shooting close-ups of faces, make sure your mates trim their nasal hair.
Not joking here. You'll be surprised by all the weird things that will fill become very visible when shooting anything close - and if you're serious about filming, you'd better pay attention to those things; including open zippers, ugly teeth, zits and, yeah... nose hair.
Will be back soon-ish. In the meantime, be good.
Cheers,
:: hkn ::
Michael_Thatcher
Member
Bump for HKN to add somethin
