I can only do like somewhat off axis 3's, although sometimes its hard to tell exactly how corked your getting, but I do critical grabs, and just kind of lay it back from 90 to 180, and you gotta be pretty patient with the rotation or you'll 450 every time, its kind of a weird trick, but its a good way to learn 5's if you can't because 5 is your out if you go too big