Confused on bindings

[Evancantspin]

I have some adjustable bindings on my old skis and I just bought some 2023 poachers. I’m relatively new to the scene and I just see everyone got pivots and I just don’t get it. They look sick af but will there be that much of a performance difference for the money I’ll be paying. Someone exsplain for me please.

 

[KilaTsunami]

Huge difference my guy. Those adjustable bindings have a massive footprint on the ski which limits the overall flexibility. Meaning the ski can't flex underneath the bindings. Pivots have a super small footprint giving the ski way more room to flex, which goes a long ass way especially on park skis.

 

[hamsauce]

There is a pretty big difference. Most casual skiers like adjustable (or demo bindings) because they can adjust to any boot size and they can loan to their friends. Some park skiers like them because they can mess around with mount points- if you want to experiment with true center, you can move the toe and heel forward on the tracks, and if you want to try a rearward mount you can slide them back a bit.

Negatives include a super high stack height (how high you are up off the ski), messing with the flex (which was already mentioned), and they break easier. More fiddly parts = more that can break.

It also depends which demo bindings they are. Demo attacks and Demo wardens are the best demos in my experience. With all that being said, some people short on cash rip on demos. A buddy of mine has old PB&Js with demo griffons that have seen gnarlier stuff than my pivots ever will.

Pivots will cost you $250+ if you find a deal and $60+ for the mount, (or $150 + mount for attacks) and you will probably only get $100ish back depending on what type of demo binding you have.

Either way i think its a viable option. You could keep the demos, experiment with mount points, and save some cash for new boots or pivots next season, or you could get your setup dialed. Ive done both and been happy both times.

**This post was edited on Nov 6th 2023 at 12:18:28pm

 

[deac]

i would get bindings without the demo track my old set of demo wardens had a tendency for the toe piece to slide off when I was side ways on a box or rail too many moving parts imo

 

[Powstagram]

Really depends on what you need. I have a beater pair of skis with demo bindings (which actually ride really well) for instructing on and ripping around in the park sometimes. $100 for the whole setup, barely any scratches, great value for a resort rippin setup. Really depends where you want to put money into. I channeled my budget mainly into a decent touring setup because that’s what really suited my needs as to when I asked myself honestly what/where I ski the most

 

[Evancantspin]

Huge difference my guy. Those adjustable bindings have a massive footprint on the ski which limits the overall flexibility. Meaning the ski can't flex underneath the bindings. Pivots have a super small footprint giving the ski way more room to flex, which goes a long ass way especially on park skis.

Thankyou this clears it up for me. Probably why last year my skis couldn’t flex for shit.

 

[maaattt]

Attack 13, the whole "pivots give more room to flex" is technically correct but it's like 2 inches of less foot print. Your boot in the middle of the ski is doing more to effect flex

 

[Evancantspin]

Attack 13, the whole "pivots give more room to flex" is technically correct but it's like 2 inches of less foot print. Your boot in the middle of the ski is doing more to effect flex

As for boots is their a certain type of boots more beneficial for park skiing and butters

 

[maaattt]

As for boots is their a certain type of boots more beneficial for park skiing and butters

Nah, best boot for everything is the one that fits the best with a proper flex

 

[KilaTsunami]

As for boots is their a certain type of boots more beneficial for park skiing and butters

Get whatever is most comfortable, I personally like 100/110 flex and I’m 160 @ 5’10. Flex is all preference tho. I wouldn’t want something too stiff in the park, but ppl do it.

 

[KilaTsunami]

Attack 13, the whole "pivots give more room to flex" is technically correct but it's like 2 inches of less foot print. Your boot in the middle of the ski is doing more to effect flex

Ofc but 2 inches is a pretty big deal when we’re talking centimeters/millimeters. If I were op I’d get pivots.

 

[maaattt]

Ofc but 2 inches is a pretty big deal when we’re talking centimeters/millimeters. If I were op I’d get pivots.

Okay it's like 5 less centimeters of foot print. Elasticity is contributing a far more amount to how the ski feels than that

 

[Lip_on]

I have some adjustable bindings on my old skis and I just bought some 2023 poachers. I’m relatively new to the scene and I just see everyone got pivots and I just don’t get it. They look sick af but will there be that much of a performance difference for the money I’ll be paying. Someone exsplain for me please.

Get cross country bindings and boots for max steez

 

[KilaTsunami]

Okay it's like 5 less centimeters of foot print. Elasticity is contributing a far more amount to how the ski feels than that

Yeah but thats obvious, bcs op already found a ski that he likes the flex on is asking what the deal with pivots is. He’ll probably Mount recommend which should be center camber on that ski. Idk we don’t have poachers at the shop I’m at so I don’t know em.

 

[weatcoast]

As for boots is their a certain type of boots more beneficial for park skiing and butters

Sorry that you’re getting a bunch of loser trolls commenting.

a serious answer is the K2 FL3X line of boots. They are the best park boots and they offer a variety of sizes, so you should be able to find one that fits.

 

[Evancantspin]

Sorry that you’re getting a bunch of loser trolls commenting.

a serious answer is the K2 FL3X line of boots. They are the best park boots and they offer a variety of sizes, so you should be able to find one that fits.

I don’t think anyone is a loser kind friend

 

[deac]

Sorry that you’re getting a bunch of loser trolls commenting.

a serious answer is the K2 FL3X line of boots. They are the best park boots and they offer a variety of sizes, so you should be able to find one that fits.

you def ski on dukes

 

[deac]

Get cross country bindings and boots for max steez

why are you so obsessed with steez bro nobody gaf

 

[weatcoast]

I don’t think anyone is a loser kind friend

Anyone trolling a new skier trying to get interested in the sport is a loser. People should be helping new skiers, not being rude.

 

[hamsauce]

This is just plain incorrect. The best park boot is the boot that fits your foot. Full tilts and k2 fl3x are popular, but that does not mean it is the best for your foot.

Sorry that you’re getting a bunch of loser trolls commenting.

a serious answer is the K2 FL3X line of boots. They are the best park boots and they offer a variety of sizes, so you should be able to find one that fits.

 

[weatcoast]

This is just plain incorrect. The best park boot is the boot that fits your foot. Full tilts and k2 fl3x are popular, but that does not mean it is the best for your foot.

Yes all things equal, I mean the full tilt is the best park boot. Meaning if you’re comfortable in either a 4 buckle or full tilt, he should choose the full tilt

basically, he should try his best to try on full tilts first, if some how none of them fit then yes move on to a traditional 4 buckle or try a dalbello 3 buckle

 

[hamsauce]

Gonna tag [tag=134699]@onenerdykid[/tag] to bring someone who knows more about boots than anyone on earth into this. Would love to hear you weigh in on this comment.

Yes all things equal, I mean the full tilt is the best park boot. Meaning if you’re comfortable in either a 4 buckle or full tilt, he should choose the full tilt

basically, he should try his best to try on full tilts first, if some how none of them fit then yes move on to a traditional 4 buckle or try a dalbello 3 buckle

 

[onenerdykid]

Gonna tag [tag=134699]@onenerdykid[/tag] to bring someone who knows more about boots than anyone on earth into this. Would love to hear you weigh in on this comment.

All of my thoughts are in this recent thread over in Gear Talk:
https://www.newschoolers.com/forum/thread/936221/POLL--OVERLAP-OR-CABRIO-BOOTS

 

[profa_212]

Yes all things equal, I mean the full tilt is the best park boot. Meaning if you’re comfortable in either a 4 buckle or full tilt, he should choose the full tilt

basically, he should try his best to try on full tilts first, if some how none of them fit then yes move on to a traditional 4 buckle or try a dalbello 3 buckle

bros stuck in the 2008 full tilt hype lol

everything you said is wrong btw. best boot is the one that fits. Bar none. You may prefer the linear flex of a 3 piece over the progressive flex of a 2 piece, but that has nothing to do with it being better. Its preference.

 

[cydwhit]

Attack 13, the whole "pivots give more room to flex" is technically correct but it's like 2 inches of less foot print. Your boot in the middle of the ski is doing more to effect flex

Quoting for emphasis. There's a spectrum of validity to the arguments the "just get Pivots" crowd makes, and IMO the least worth of them is their footprint in relation to flex. Yeah, huge plates that span the entire mid portion of the ski, like frame bindings or MFD touring plates can have a little bit of a noticeable impact, but I refuse to believe that the majority of skiers, myself included, are so tuned into a ski's flex that they can tell the difference between a Pivot's footprint, and an Attack's.

This argument is stupid. Get reliable, easy to use bindings, and make sure they're set up correctly for you.

 

[Dubins]

Just get some strives or attacks and save yourself some cash. If you’re dropping huge cliffs the all metal pivots are worth the money. For most of us, we will never out-ski a pair of attack 14s.

 

[Brother_trucker]

I have some adjustable bindings on my old skis and I just bought some 2023 poachers. I’m relatively new to the scene and I just see everyone got pivots and I just don’t get it. They look sick af but will there be that much of a performance difference for the money I’ll be paying. Someone exsplain for me please.

If you mean the bindings are hire ski type ones, then yeah any other binding will be better than them. For a start the hire type can slip on their rails and result in improper forward pressure. And as stated by others Look pivots are small footprint on the ski so aid flex, and they are also lower to the ski in terms of stack height than most others, and have lower angle between heel and toe than most others. They also are stated as being the most elastic travel if you're talking about the pivot 18s which means if the ski and boot get partial release, its more likely that the binding will allow you to come back to natural on the ski without releasing fully. This is one reason why they're popular. Theory goes is less likely to pre-release on you. Not sure how you would actually demonstrate that mind.

 

[Lemuel]

Many people don't know the STH heel has floating front screws, allowing the ski to flex under the heel. Likely allows the most natural ski flex of any alpine binding. Pivot owners are punching the air right now.

 

[SofaKingSick]

Many people don't know the STH heel has floating front screws, allowing the ski to flex under the heel. Likely allows the most natural ski flex of any alpine binding. Pivot owners are punching the air right now.

i know what floating front screws are, but my friend doesn't. will you explain it for him?

 

[Lemuel]

i know what floating front screws are, but my friend doesn't. will you explain it for him?

See how the front screws are seated through the black spacers? Those spacers float in that void allowing the ski to flex under the binding. There’s a metal plate on top that sits over the heel track.

I see Salomon doesn’t even market this feature anymore which is silly. Looks like they are big on some placebo switch now.

 

[SofaKingSick]

View attachment 1080827

See how the front screws are seated through the black spacers? Those spacers float in that void allowing the ski to flex under the binding. There’s a metal plate on top that sits over the heel track.

I see Salomon doesn’t even market this feature anymore which is silly. Looks like they are big on some placebo switch now.

ohh right that makes sense. thanks for the explanation/picture dude