CineStyles: Can someone explain them to me?

K

kootenayklaus

Active member
Everyone, lately around where I am, has been talking about shooting in these flat picture styles, and I am absolutely lost when it comes to them. I, myself, shot with one a while ago, but I stopped using it after I just couldn't realize the purpose, if anything it softened my footage. How do you grade with it? In what program should you grade with it?

Essentially, I am looking for a head to toe explanation of what they are. I want to figure what I am "missing out on", or if I even am. Much thanks M+A!
 
CineStyle and flat picture styles gained popularity with canon DSLRs. Basically with the h264 compression that they use, the highlights and blacks are compressed most and lose the most data in the compression. So with a "flat" picture style, it brings down the highlights and ups the blacks to try to keep them from getting compressed out of the final image. Then, in post, you can set them back to normal using a color corrector/color editing software.

What platform/NLE do you use?
 
FCP, I have the suite so Color as well, but I have never really gotten into it. I was looking into MBL, never decided to get it though.

This is an edit I shot with a flat CineStyle. I graded it in post so that the whites and blacks were balanced, but I feel like overall it softens the image. I basically want to know how I can achieve some of the awesome grades, what to use, and ULTIMATELY not lose much of my quality through editing. Was I grading wrong? Tips possibly?
 
the point of using picture styles are for the sole purpose of doing color correcting and grading in post. it was mentioned above but the main reason is to get a higher dynamic range out of your image. this allows you to push the colors and do any style you want without having clipped highs and crushed darks. ive used cinestyle in my last two videos, as well as another style for the purpose of helping tell the story.

for grading, learn how to use color. its a super awesome program and it will really make your work stand out. thats your best option right now. thats what i use and i love it
 
contrary to popular belief, NO picture style increases the dynamic range of your recording. In fact, most cinestyle or flat profiles DECREASE the amount of dynamic range you get. their purpose is to make a much flatter and more uniform image for increased grading options.

pros:

increases grading opportunities/ease of grading

magically transforms you into phillip bloom

neutral:

does not affect sharpness

noise change negligible*

cons:

looks like shit without grading

causes greatly increased banding

decreases dynamic range

*although it doesnt really increase the noise, it makes the shadow noise much more evident on an ungraded or poorly graded image.

it has its uses, but it should be used somewhat sparingly.

oh yea and NEVER use it for photos
 
how is this true? the image appears "flatter" because the detail is kept in the shadows and in the highlights. that means the camera captures a greater dynamic range. the standard picture profile doesn't capture detail in the shadows, they are just lost in the darkness. if you try to lighten the area, the whole thing gets grayer, there is no detail.

it does look bad ungraded...its supposed to. its meant to be graded and meant to have the contrast brought back in post by color grading. and yes this is all for video, pictures should be shot raw in the first place

 
the camera crushes very dark shadows that it would retain detail in normally when using cinestyle.

and it doesnt add dynamic range or detail, it flattens the image so that the detail is uniform(ish) throughout the frame.

and no shit on the other parts, i was just pointing those out
 
The bottom line is that you just need to get out and experiment with it. I correct with the standard fcp 3-way cc, so everything is fairly straight forward in my eyes when I am dealing with the h.264 out of my t2i.
I mean, you can always go crazy with noise reduction software and complicated sharpening shit that I don't understand or care to apply. Its pretty popular with the big rig 5d outfit.
 
fyi not crushing the black and blowing the highlights doesnt mean the DR increases. you guys are really throwing around DR too much without knowing what it actually is. i dont wanna type it all out on mobile and no comp for the weekend so of someone else wants to chime in be my guest but ill reply with more detail in a few days. better yet, you could just look it up. a flat picture style does not increase DR
 
No picture profile can change the fundamental structure of the codec, plain and simple. Cinestyle is meant to mimic Log C curves, but technically are just "overcompensations" that mimic Log C within the standard rec 709. Detail in the shadows and highlights are there, only the camera's compression fucks everything up at the extremes of the scale, meaning the darkest darks and brightest brights become "lost" and clip. Cinestyle basically takes luminance values from the sensor that would normally be placed at these extremes, and compensates for this by placing them just outside of those values. So instead of dark sensor info being registered at the bottom, it is registered at the lower-mid.

Cinestyle is fundamentally flawed because you are relying on grading to make your footage look good, and relying on 8-bit h.264 is never a good idea unless you're in controlled environments (read: studio lighting) and are able to control color and values outside of the camera, and even then it's a pain in the ass. The only reason Cinestyle is getting so much attention is because people like Vincent Laforet are commissioned by Canon to endorse their product. They're basically payed to say good things about the cameras for marketing purposes.

Shooting "flat" can be extremely beneficial in certain situations, given that "flat" means you're using a normal picture style with the contrast turned down. Aside from that, unless you really know what you're doing when it comes to lighting/grading, don't even bother. Shooting flat in this case is one of those things where if it isn't going to be done right, you shouldn't do it at all.
 
Bastard :)
dynamic-range-5d-mark-iii.jpg


 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top