Censoring history

[-benedetto]

I frequently recommend podcast and this post is no different. The newest Joe Rogan Experience is with a guy named Thaddeus who is a history professor at a liberal arts college in NYC. So far, a great listen. He's not a cookie cutter historian either. He's about real talk.

 

[lurking]

If somebody nuked Chicago do you think the American people would say well shit, you got us, lets be friends now?

I get your points and I mostly agree, but if somebody nuked Chicago, everyone on the fucking planet would die. America would retaliate against the whole world, with zero regards for human life, thus killing everyone. Its the whole point of MAD, which is probably why nukes will never be used in conflict in the civilized world again (I'm not counting religious zealots ie. Pakistan and India, as civilized because they judgement is clouded by religion).

 

[louie.mirags]

Pakistan and India, as civilized because they judgement is clouded by religion).

and your judgement is clouded by our media to think everybody's opinion in Pakistan and India is the same.

 

[Utard]

You really think we would have just signed a peace treaty, stopped fighting and then another war wouldn't come from that? Come on man we gave them the chance to surrender after dropping one bomb and they still said no we want to keep fighting. that in itself shows you that they wouldn't have been peaceful they had other plans, and it took the use of two nuclear weapons to realize they needed to stop. I don't regret anything in that situation on my country's behalf. you're throwing around a lot of hypotheticals.

Nope. Japan was trying to surrender for at least a month before Hiroshima, but they had a few diplomatic requests and the US insisted on unconditional surrender so we could rebuild them to be an American puppet. Oh yeah, there's also the fact that the US conducted several more massive air raids against Japan even after they surrendered proper.

 

[deleted5]

Thread derail time

People are so fucked on this subject. It doesn't matter if they would have surrendered or not. We don't surrender but should somebody drop nukes on our cities? It's also ironic that we're the police of who can have nuclear technology considering we're the ones who killed all those people with nukes.

People are not always going to agree, but you can't just nuke everyone that doesn't agree with you. It's insane to me how easily we justify this. "Well they wouldn't surrender" WHO CARES. Killing civilians civilians on that scale because their country wouldn't surrender is insane.

It disgusts me to hear people say stuff like that. I understand that's how good old 'Murca feels on the subject but to me it's messed up.

If somebody nuked Chicago do you think the American people would say well shit, you got us, lets be friends now?

Idk. I just think our perspective is messed up. How can we so easily justify the deaths of a couple hundred thousand civilians. It's like it was nothing, like we blew up an ant colony or something. We didn't even do anything wrong, just business as usual. A bunch of dead women and children? No worries, Japan was bad, they were all bad so fuck em = sweet.

/rant

first off we would shoot down any bomb before It got 500 miles with in our cost, but i know that's not the point you were trying to make. I think that countries either need to be stronger than their government or the people controlling it if they really are doing something heinous, and the rest of the world doesn't agree with them. Or they can be stronger than both of those and bully the rest of the world. in some parts of the Middle East I really wouldn't have a problem dropping a nuclear bomb, the people and government have shown they're week and they can't take care of themselves. they are at a crucial point in history where they either need to stand up and fight or die out and let these new groups take over. life is unfair if you can't control a radical terrorist group within your borders I don't think it's the end of the world if you get wiped off the map. another random point, but I'll throw it out there. If you ask any president what what keeps him up at night he will say Pakistan. the fact that radical religious people with no regards for their own life, because they believe in an afterlife that is better than there "real life". they have nuclear weapons and don't fear death, could very well be the end of humanity.

I don't think we're ever going to agree on this point. but even Japan dosen't hold it against us they understood why we did it, and they now know they were on the wrong side of that war. unlike Cuba we won't even talk to because they pointed missiles at us 30 years ago they didn't even shoot it.

 

[Gods_Father]

I don't think we're ever going to agree on this point. but even Japan dosen't hold it against us they understood why we did it, and they now know they were on the wrong side of that war. unlike Cuba we won't even talk to because they pointed missiles at us 30 years ago they didn't even shoot it.

damn, dude....I wana call you ignorant but you are just uneducated.

first of all those Cuban missiles were actually soviet missiles lol. the entire conflict your country has with Cuba all began with a failed terrorist militia invasion of cuba...sponsored by kennedy and your country...pair this with the fact that America already had missiles stationed in turkey and you have the motive for the soviets to put missiles in cuba(defensively). the soviets even offered to remove all missiles from cuba if usa removed all missiles from turkey.....this would seem rational to anyone, but kennedy and usa declined LOL. you see, a big problem is the brainwashed majority(including you) who believe their country does no bad so instead places blame on other countries like cuba and Russia, when clearly, as the example of cuba shows that America not only started the conflict but was the only party unwilling to resolve it democratically because it would halt the overreaching USA. America believes that they own the world by right, it's entirely normal and proper for usa to deploy offensive force and missiles all over the world, but when another country does the same thing it is a complete outrage. your lack of knowledge on the subject is unbelievable relative to how many claims you are making.

 

[deleted5]

I know what the Bay of Pigs is, you also left out the amount of times we tried to assassinate the leader of the country. Cuba pointed the nuclear missiles at us doesn't matter where the made in stamp came from or who ordered it. Yet we still have an embargo from the cold war with Cuba and didn't have one with cccp.

 

[lurking]

I know what the Bay of Pigs is, you also left out the amount of times we tried to assassinate the leader of the country. Cuba pointed the nuclear missiles at us doesn't matter where the made in stamp came from or who ordered it. Yet we still have an embargo from the cold war with Cuba and didn't have one with cccp.

But does Cuba really supply anything other than immigrants and cigars?

 

[deleted5]

^ I didn't say I agree with the embargo, I actually don't even remember why I'm talking about it.

 

[arnie_grape]

america just gets better every day

 

[AT-AT]

Time to go all Icelandic.

 

[Gods_Father]

Cuba pointed the nuclear missiles at us doesn't matter where the made in stamp came from or who ordered it. Yet we still have an embargo from the cold war with Cuba and didn't have one with cccp.

that's basically a statement outlining the brainwashed mentality that I just referred to.

you "pointed missiles" at another country, then that country retaliated by "pointing missiles" at you.....how is that an outrage to you lol??? you are upset that a country pointed missiles at you? you point missiles at countries too though, and in this case you pointed them first lol that is hypocrisy. when missiles are pointed at you it is a scary act of terrorism, but there is no problem when you are doing the missile pointing. the soviets offered to get rid of all missiles if America would do the same, BUT AMERICA TYRANNICALLY REJECTED THAT OFFER! how could you even have a problem with cuba when you acknowledge that your country tried to instill regime change so that you could determine the interests of the Cuban citizens to suit your agenda.

oh, an embargo....that's just economic warfare against a country lol!

 

[deleted5]

that's basically a statement outlining the brainwashed mentality that I just referred to.

you "pointed missiles" at another country, then that country retaliated by "pointing missiles" at you.....how is that an outrage to you lol??? you are upset that a country pointed missiles at you? you point missiles at countries too though, and in this case you pointed them first lol that is hypocrisy. when missiles are pointed at you it is a scary act of terrorism, but there is no problem when you are doing the missile pointing. the soviets offered to get rid of all missiles if America would do the same, BUT AMERICA TYRANNICALLY REJECTED THAT OFFER! how could you even have a problem with cuba when you acknowledge that your country tried to instill regime change so that you could determine the interests of the Cuban citizens to suit your agenda.

oh, an embargo....that's just economic warfare against a country lol!

You're missing the point as usaual, that post isn't about Cuba and if it was good or bad. It was about japan, and before this turns into a six page back and forth I'll end it there.

 

[Gods_Father]

You're missing the point as usaual, that post isn't about Cuba and if it was good or bad. It was about japan, and before this turns into a six page back and forth I'll end it there.

you're so full of shit LOL!!!

"Japan dosen't hold it against us they understood why we did it, and they now know they were on the wrong side of that war. unlike Cuba we won't even talk to because they pointed missiles at us 30 years ago."

you're 100% insinuating that cuba was in the wrong for "pointing missiles" at you and not admitting to being "on the wrong side of that war"(also insinuating that you were on the right side), when the reality is that YOU were in the wrong. you even admitted to this yourself by acknowledging the bay of pigs...jesus fuck.

 

[deleted5]

you're so full of shit LOL!!!

"Japan dosen't hold it against us they understood why we did it, and they now know they were on the wrong side of that war. unlike Cuba we won't even talk to because they pointed missiles at us 30 years ago."

you're 100% insinuating that cuba was in the wrong for "pointing missiles" at you and not admitting to being "on the wrong side of that war"(also insinuating that you were on the right side), when the reality is that YOU were in the wrong. you even admitted to this yourself by acknowledging the bay of pigs...jesus fuck.

I had no idea I was alive back then, that's what America thinks which is why I didn't write the law to put an embargo on Cuba, and thats what Japan thinks. which is why they have a memorial set up so they remember the tragedies of why the bomb was dropped and so it could never happen again. Its not a memorial to remember how America attacked them.

 

[Turd.Ferguson]

But does Cuba really supply anything other than immigrants and cigars?

very good cigars

 

[Gods_Father]

I had no idea I was alive back then, that's what America thinks which is why I didn't write the law to put an embargo on Cuba, and thats what Japan thinks. which is why they have a memorial set up so they remember the tragedies of why the bomb was dropped and so it could never happen again. Its not a memorial to remember how America attacked them.

so you're agreeing that your comment 100% insinuated that cuba, "unlike japan", was not admitting responsibility when "being on the wrong side of war"...?

btw, you used the example of an embargo as evidence to why you place blame on cuba for "pointing missiles" at you b/c you didn't have an embargo with cccp lolllllll.

 

[theabortionator]

first off we would shoot down any bomb before It got 500 miles with in our cost, but i know that's not the point you were trying to make. I think that countries either need to be stronger than their government or the people controlling it if they really are doing something heinous, and the rest of the world doesn't agree with them. Or they can be stronger than both of those and bully the rest of the world. in some parts of the Middle East I really wouldn't have a problem dropping a nuclear bomb, the people and government have shown they're week and they can't take care of themselves. they are at a crucial point in history where they either need to stand up and fight or die out and let these new groups take over. life is unfair if you can't control a radical terrorist group within your borders I don't think it's the end of the world if you get wiped off the map. another random point, but I'll throw it out there. If you ask any president what what keeps him up at night he will say Pakistan. the fact that radical religious people with no regards for their own life, because they believe in an afterlife that is better than there "real life". they have nuclear weapons and don't fear death, could very well be the end of humanity.

I don't think we're ever going to agree on this point. but even Japan dosen't hold it against us they understood why we did it, and they now know they were on the wrong side of that war. unlike Cuba we won't even talk to because they pointed missiles at us 30 years ago they didn't even shoot it.

Yeah kill a bunch of innocent people again because of generalizations. Sweet.

 

[Bill.Nye]

in some parts of the Middle East I really wouldn't have a problem dropping a nuclear bomb, the people and government have shown they're week and they can't take care of themselves.

Oh look, hard Fascism.

 

[Bill.Nye]

Nope. Japan was trying to surrender for at least a month before Hiroshima, but they had a few diplomatic requests and the US insisted on unconditional surrender so we could rebuild them to be an American puppet. Oh yeah, there's also the fact that the US conducted several more massive air raids against Japan even after they surrendered proper.

By the way, the reason the Japanese did finally accept unconditional surrender wasn't because of the atom bomb. It was because they had been trying to negotiate a deal with Russia and Russia let the deal fall through and Russian invaded Japan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet–Japanese_War_(1945)

Of course this is America though, so no one in school here learns how the Russians were actually the ones who mostly won WWII.

 

[Gsince93]

This irks me to the max, good on you. America is going to be 10x more messed up than it already is unless we have educated* youth. Lets face it America is going down a poor path right now and so we need a change. This school board is pathetic. It's not like the AP kids are going to go spray paint stuff for the fun of it. Though the school board might not be doing this for malicious or evil reasons, they still are walking a dangerous line. That really is quite hypocritical of the very principles they claim to want to teach.

Reminds me of this.

“It was not desirable that the proles should have strong political feelings. All that was required of them was a primitive patriotism which could be appealed to whenever it was necessary to make them accept longer working hours or shorter rations. And even when they became discontented, as they sometimes did, their discontent led nowhere, because, being without general ideas, they could only focus it on petty specific grievances.”

-1984, George Orwell

*meaning truly critical thinkers that are capable of questioning and defending the very foundation of this country. Youth who have not been blinded. Real education

 

[profa_212]

By the way, the reason the Japanese did finally accept unconditional surrender wasn't because of the atom bomb. It was because they had been trying to negotiate a deal with Russia and Russia let the deal fall through and Russian invaded Japan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet–Japanese_War_(1945)

Of course this is America though, so no one in school here learns how the Russians were actually the ones who mostly won WWII.

The Russians wouldn't have made it without America and Britain, and America and Britain would not have made it without Russia. It's a bit of a circle there.

 

[no_steeze]

There's no such thing as purely objective history. Every source that every historian has ever studied has some form of bias to it. I agree that schools shouldn't try to censor things but it's how history has been taught since the beginning

 

[deleted5]

By the way, the reason the Japanese did finally accept unconditional surrender wasn't because of the atom bomb. It was because they had been trying to negotiate a deal with Russia and Russia let the deal fall through and Russian invaded Japan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet–Japanese_War_(1945)

Of course this is America though, so no one in school here learns how the Russians were actually the ones who mostly won WWII.

I was taught about how the Germans moved into Russia in the winter, and it was so cold that nearly wiped them out. that sounds like the main reason we were able to beat the axis power, and it still blows my mind how many people in Russia were killed from World War 2. just out of curiosity can anyone else on this site name an event where more people were killed?

 

[profa_212]

I was taught about how the Germans moved into Russia in the winter, and it was so cold that nearly wiped them out. that sounds like the main reason we were able to beat the axis power, and it still blows my mind how many people in Russia were killed from World War 2. just out of curiosity can anyone else on this site name an event where more people were killed?

The mongol conquests? Between 30,000,000 and 40,000,000 deaths.

 

[stormpooper]

lol "it reminds me of things live nazi germany........or Russia"

 

[deleted5]

The mongol conquests? Between 30,000,000 and 40,000,000 deaths.

that is an unbelievable amount of death, as in I literally don't believe the amount you said.

 

[profa_212]

that is an unbelievable amount of death, as in I literally don't believe the amount you said.

Well it occurred over 160ish years, but yes that is the actual number of deaths.

 

[Bill.Nye]

The Russians wouldn't have made it without America and Britain, and America and Britain would not have made it without Russia. It's a bit of a circle there.

Sure, but none of that has to do with the dropping of two atomic bombs being redundant to winning the war.