Boring white guy (Paul Ryan) picked as boring white guy (Mitt Romney)'s VP

totally missed the point. i can choose to be charitable if i want. your Samaritan upbringing bares no position on this conversation.

you put yourself in front of others EVERY FREAKING DAY OF YOUR LIFE. maybe you dont like to realize that, but you do. embrace the fact that you live for yourself, and that your only tool for survival is your rational brain, and your brain allows you to produce. your brain and the output it creates belong to YOU and whomever you choose to share its riches with. you owe me none of it, likewise i dont owe you anything in return.

its not about exploiting one another, its about living in a free trader society, if i dont want to trade with you i wont. you must trade value for value. when you introduce this idea of the government doing good your morals go right out the window. you steal from one to feed another? based on what? you carry a bigger stick (the power to imprison?) you have the majority? none of these things make the action of taking by force the tangible output of someones mind to give to someone else a "moral action" rather it is a terribly immoral action to take.

sorry for taking so long to get back to you, i was to busy "moving the world" working 11+ hour days :)
 
i raise you Paul Krugman,everyones favorite liberal

"Social Security is structured from the point of view of the recipients as if it were an ordinary retirement plan: what you get out depends on what you put in. So it does not look like a redistributionist scheme. In practice it has turned out to be strongly redistributionist, but only because of its Ponzi game aspect, in which each generation takes more out than it put in. Well, the Ponzi game will soon be over, thanks to changing demographics, so that the typical recipient henceforth will get only about as much as he or she put in (and today's young may well get less than they put in)."
 
I don't think you could have delivered a more crushing blow to DingoSean's credibility, as far as this goes...

Too bad I already had you at 10/10.

 
Here's a newsflash that probably hasnt crossed your mind... Ever thought of anyone but yourself you selfish prick. Not everyone gets to be raised in a perfect environment with good schools and supportive parents. Not everyone gets the opportunity to succeed, and the ones who rise the social ladder from rags to riches is miniscule. Try having a more open mind when it comes to people of your country and fellow human being. Money is and should not be a "goal" in life. Therefore one should help out others in need.
 
"therefore one should help out others in need" where is the supporting evidence for this conclusion?

im the most charitable person i know, i demand nothing of others. i only ask to deal with people on a purely rational basis, trading value for value, never introducing force.
 
thats the best you can do?

asking not to be punitively taxed and have the product of my mind confiscated is FAR from asking that others abstain from force.
 
Yes. You can choose to be charitable if you want. But how many Ebenezer Scrooges are there out there who rationalize their selfishness to the extent that they lose that generosity entirely?

I'd rather these types of people have less power against me than more... and I'd like to have as much power to get them out of power as I can. Putting business in charge of all and hoping this whole free market idea would work is banking on that whole dog-eat-dog tribal system that's more likely to destroy us than make peace.
 
The argument that I have for the social "safety net" that I am not entirely surprised is brought up more often is that it is good for business. A healthy, highly educated, well rested, and happy workforce is good business. This is why large companies like Boeing offer high level health benefits, decent vacation policies, and wellness programs. Simply implementing the wellness program offered a return of like $2 for every $1 they invested in saved healthcare premiums. Workers under these conditions are more productive which is good business.

Also the fact that we do not provide universal healthcare for all children still shocks me. And that the SCHIP bill was one of the few that GW vetoed, no surprise there.

We seriously let corporations like Wal Mart with many low wage workers suck at the government teet by paying wages that make many of their employees eligible for Medicaid. And papa John saying obamacare will cost him another $0.11-0.14 per pizza. I will gladly pay that if it means his employees and their children have health insurance.

Not to get all Will McAvoy here, but when people say we're the best country I say WTF.
 
Yup - especially like the Will Mac bit! ha.

It's all about having a balance. balanced economy, balanced social manifesto including healthcare,(not huge sweeping arguments about abortion, gay marriage etc... these should all be fundamental rights of individuals... live and let live etc...not dictated by a central federal government that really should be concentrating on bigger issues).

Again though, unfortunately the political climate among the US general population is totally polarized - there is little center... The reason for this, i believe, is only having two main parties - two main candidates to vote for - this will naturally cause the drift further and further to left/right respectively. That is driven by media commentary, lobbyists, idiots like the tea party, and which side of the fence you need to sit on social and fiscal issues to appease an electorate that is by majority, pretty stupid...

And not just in the US - anywhere in the world - the general public, by large are not bright.... and candidates know this, and know who / what to target in order to win an election.

Whoever wins, just like Obama and those before, will not deliver on half of the promises they make during this campaign... so i'd just take it all with a grain of salt... might as well toss a coin in reality. You'll be back in exactly the same situation again in 4 years time... the US federal political system needs a total change... or at least you need to have more candidates fighting it out, to moderate some of the extreme stances taken on the issues that really matter.

 
What a great thread full of bullshit talking points copy and pasted off whatever site these kids parents read the most...
Fuckkkk this
 
he's releasing his tax cuts and maybe he already did idk i haven't been watching the news i just got back from vacation, but that guy is right, why the fuck would you wanna work all day everyday and get a good income and then give it to people who cheat the system and sit on their ass all day and collect money from people who actually work?
 
Aside from their disastrous policy, I think we can get an indication of how they plan to serve the public from a much simpler viewpoint. Has anyone really looked into their character and personality? I think that is very important to look into. Has anyone watched them talking or interacting with other people? Its a train wreck. Their both arrogant dickheads. Watch the 60 minutes interview with both of them, Romney barely answers the questions and acts and talks plain authentically...

...There is something very wrong with them that emanates plainly, on the surface. The demeanor of their dynamics is off putting. I'm not sure how else to explain it, but I just don't like them as people.
 
I would be willing to bet Romney is a psychopath. I know it sounds dramatic but Its a lot more common than you think and from what I've seen he possesses a lot of the characteristics. Ive gone to school and worked with people like this. Trusting them can be sketchy.
 
anyone else agree that arguing about this shit over the internet is pointless, cause i do. You can't make a point from behind a computer screen.
 
It's late and I'm tired, but I gotta respond.

1: You got some things right. If people have money, they'll spend it

2: Don't be such a shortsighted fucking little prick. You really think someone who makes 10 million a year spends all that?

3: It's logical that people that have more, contribute more (as far as taxes go). Otherwise the money just sits in their bank account and, more importantly, the poor will have to pay.
 
He doesn't remind me of Reagan in almost any way.

He's not an Actor, and as a politician, he's not like 77 and in the running for the white house..
 
i think that primates and thereby humans have another approach than like tigers or other animals that live alone. in fact, i am pretty sure that empathy was an evolutionary advantage.
 
did i say i have no empathy? i dont think i did.

rather i believe in doing the "moral" "empathetic" thing on my own, i dont need the government to help me help other people.

still for all the responses ive gotten, no one wants to take on the meat of my post in that stealing to redistribute isnt moral, its morally bankrupt. but i guess all of NS can just make snippy personal attacks and dodge my post, that works.
 
personally I think if you don't ski 100+ days a year You should take your polibullshit to some polifucktard forum cause thats what your obviously most passionate about

aint no way in hell I'm gonna be convinced to vote for any member of the cult of latter day kookalas

or some asshole that would put his furkid on the top of a vehicle
 
Sean-O,

Not having been around in the States long enough to know much about Romney's background in mass etc... essentially, do you think he's deep down more Center Right, but just pulled further to the right to appease the tea party?

I stand by my - I wouldn't vote for either if i could.... because it won't make a difference, in 4 years, it'll be the same old shit - the only thing you need now is to cut your deficit.... I don't think kids on here realize just how important that is, and really should be the priority.

America thinks someone who earns 250-300k a year is "middle class" - this is absurd - anywhere else in the developed world this would very much be upper class and way above average.

 
Askin me, mate?

Romney is pretty damn center for a GOP... and absolutely is attempting to appeal to the hardcore conservative base. I actually look at him and think he's shit scared half the time because he's a weak public speaker, and is super freaked out he's going to say something not 'tea party' enough and lose his own base. He's got to walk an extremely thin line in that party what with where his position is within it. Which is absurd and pretty sad.

He's got to completely hide his faith, and basically is forced to run a smeared, fear tactic campaign against Obama, rather than hyping himself up in any way. Seeing as Obama ran and won 4 years ago with a mostly positive campaign hyping himself up within his own party (and the world... remember when like 400000 people in Berlin came to see him on HIS euro tour four years back? That's probably more people than Hitler ever got.. Romney couldn't touch a 10th of that - especially what with how awful he did on his own tour that he just took)

It's really unfortunate for Romney, as honestly, if he was able to run his policies right, he'd probably be a really good president. He's been successful in things in the past, and is damn near as much of a political moderate as the GOP has seen in years in his position. If there wasn't that whole ultra Neo-Con base on the right, there wouldn't be such an issue here, and he'd likely be having a far easier campaign - he also wouldn't have as many absolute retards running it, I imagine.

And in reality, middle class is more around the 40k-60k mark in this country... albeit, that entirely depends on the living cost of what area of the country said salary would be in. 40-60k isn't the same in New York City as it is in Kansas City or Oklahoma City...

250k-300k might be middle class in like.. the HAMPTONS... or LA JOLLA... but in real America? It's fucking rich. Especially when you're taking home 65% of that after income taxes.
 
"stealing", lol, if you don't like it move to the most conservative nation on earth, oh wait you're already there too bad.
 
Here's the problem with apathy. In the long run you might feel that some issues will continue to bounce back and forth from presidency to presidency but others are very much in the here and now. If Obama isn't elected and we get the Romney Ryan ticket, somethings which very well might effect you kick in immediately. I know that the minute republicans are in office, the proverbial obamacare will change dramatically. Not exactly sure what they will do but it wont be the same, and i can bet that if you're in the mid twenties age group, as im sure many of the people having this conversation are, you'll no longer be on your parents health insurance. As a student working off loans this is huge for me. If that happens and i blow my ACL skiing, I'm fucked. Also as skiers, I feel we have a responsibility to the try and maintain that which we love. I dont care if you want to argue Global warming, but if Romney Ryan get elected there's going to be some pretty atrocious environmental downsides. They've talked about gutting the EPA and opening up any and every drilling operation possible.

These things affect you whether or not you like it. You followed up nicely talking about cutting loses. So i can't harp on you too hard. All im saying is apathy won't get us anywhere, issues that get decided by rich white politicians affect dirtbag skier and climber kids. So yeah stop not giving a fuck and vote.
 
Talk is not always equal to what gets done.

Theres little to no chance of Republicans getting the presidency House and Senate in this election, so its not as if they can just pass a law ending Obamacare, or even something with significant offerings, without the Dems oking it.
 
True. I will give you the better's odds on not getting a completely republican controlled washington. However, there is more to this government than congressionally approved law. The behind the scenes washington stuff is really what scares me, partly because i dont fully understand all of what goes on. Where it's an executive order or some lobby backed initiative I have very little doubt that a Romney Ryan ticket will change the game immensely. And in my opinion immensely in the wrong direction. But that's somewhat besides the point of my main thesis. You can nit pick as much as you like, it'd just be more helpful it you tried to convey some sort of main idea or actually contribute to the conversation.
 
Hahah it's funny you ask. My mother was born and raised in Santiago and left the country during Pinochet's take over. What's your point
 
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