Bode Miller rides Full Tilt

JLev

JLev

Member
I spent years while at Full Tilt attempting to convince boot fitters and shops across the country that the 3-piece boot design was as good for people that rip groomers all day, as it is for skiers that ride park. Bill Johnson was the only American to ever win an Olympic gold medal in Downhill and he did it on the same 3-piece Raichle Flexon design FT uses today. He insisted the boot enabled him to ski faster by absorbing shock better than any other boot design, look back at the 80's and you'll see most racers on that boot. It's awesome now to see Bode Miller skiing FT, of which he has been for close to a decade now, contrary to what most boot fitters have been brainwashed by other brands to to believe haha

[video]https://youtu.be/m3cOnQk-pRE[/video]
 
Cool that they work for him. Not every boot works for every skier. That may be why "brainwashed" bootfitters don't put everyone in the same boot.

I feel like you should be more constructive with your influence.
 
14229517:Session said:
Cool that they work for him. Not every boot works for every skier. That may be why "brainwashed" bootfitters don't put everyone in the same boot.

I feel like you should be more constructive with your influence.
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EXACTLY. This is why it's important for a boot fitter to keep an open mind offering more styles... including a 3-piece knowing every skiers will not fit best in only an overlap design.
 
I remember, first time getting fitted for boots, I asked about a 3-piece boot and the guy told me they don’t have a good heel lock. Then he fitted me for a boot with too big of a heel/volume (I was new to correct fitting boots - my mistake). He would later be in one of my college classes and I realized that was NOT the guy I should have been bootfitted by.
 
topic:JLev said:
I spent years while at Full Tilt attempting to convince boot fitters and shops across the country that the 3-piece boot design was as good for people that rip groomers all day, as it is for skiers that ride park. Bill Johnson was the only American to ever win an Olympic gold medal in Downhill and he did it on the same 3-piece Raichle Flexon design FT uses today. He insisted the boot enabled him to ski faster by absorbing shock better than any other boot design, look back at the 80's and you'll see most racers on that boot. It's awesome now to see Bode Miller skiing FT, of which he has been for close to a decade now, contrary to what most boot fitters have been brainwashed by other brands to to believe haha

[video]https://youtu.be/m3cOnQk-pRE[/video]
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Bode is awesome to work with. The insights he brings to the table are crazy and things I have not even thought about. I think it’s awesome we get to work with so many different riders with different styles, it really helps with what we are working on currently.

But you know, I’m sure as well as anyone, that the hard part is still convincing people and in particular bootfitters to give full tilt a chance. I think what we are doing currently by re defining models in the line is really helping and you will see more of this moving forward into f22. The new liners have helped too but we certainly have more work to do.

These kind of questions are driving discussions currently as we are working on some new things. Hopefully we can find a balance of something people who have supported full tilt for years still love but also open the eyes of those who may have dismissed them in the past.
 
14229556:tomPietrowski said:
Bode is awesome to work with. The insights he brings to the table are crazy and things I have not even thought about. I think it’s awesome we get to work with so many different riders with different styles, it really helps with what we are working on currently.

But you know, I’m sure as well as anyone, that the hard part is still convincing people and in particular bootfitters to give full tilt a chance. I think what we are doing currently by re defining models in the line is really helping and you will see more of this moving forward into f22. The new liners have helped too but we certainly have more work to do.

These kind of questions are driving discussions currently as we are working on some new things. Hopefully we can find a balance of something people who have supported full tilt for years still love but also open the eyes of those who may have dismissed them in the past.
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I had my FT phase in high school and then sort of overlooked them after I started fitting. Skied many many boots, from Roxa, Lange, Dalbello, Tecnica, and just about every other brand out there. Just busted out my old Seths from HS and at the end of the day, my feet didn’t hurt and my toenails weren’t bruised. Granted I bought them a little bit, so I’ve since purchased a FC 10 in the correct size, but my feet are never as comfortable in other boots as they are in FTs. I’ve also been bugging the absolute shit out of [tag=154780]@tomPietrowski[/tag] about Prject X because a FT Soul shell touring boot would be..... otherworldly. 100% anyone new to skiing, or even experienced with it, go to a bootfitter. Not only will you be supporting your local, but also learning a lot. I know when I fit people, I try to teach them as much as I can without overwhelming them. I love my Full Tilts because they look sick as fuck but also fit my feet. The shells are heat moldable so a decent fitter can most likely make them fit your feet too, but discuss that! Tom and the team make kick ass ski boots, and as an FT customer for the past 7 years, I’m super happy with the product that they put out. Give em a chance!!!
 
This is true of many shops and something we are working on how to change. 3 piece boots do have many advantages, not to say they are better then overlap boots just a different option. But shops often don’t look at it like this and just dismiss them.

it’s partly down to how well full tilt marketed to freestyle skiers that they got this reputation. So success in one area has almost hurt the brand. But the product is strong and people like Bode choosing to ski the boots just shows how versatile they are.

14229560:Bended_Toenail said:
One of the bigger shops in my town calls FTs "kids boots" and "only good for dedicated rail skiing"
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I had a brief stint as a bootfitter down under. Amazing learning experience and really fun but the owner was aggressively against 3 piece. “They don’t sell”. We had probably the highest disposable income in all of Australasia at our door step. It wasn’t the boots, it was the bootfitters.

14229568:tomPietrowski said:
This is true of many shops and something we are working on how to change. 3 piece boots do have many advantages, not to say they are better then overlap boots just a different option. But shops often don’t look at it like this and just dismiss them.

it’s partly down to how well full tilt marketed to freestyle skiers that they got this reputation. So success in one area has almost hurt the brand. But the product is strong and people like Bode choosing to ski the boots just shows how versatile they are.
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14229517:Session said:
Cool that they work for him. Not every boot works for every skier. That may be why "brainwashed" bootfitters don't put everyone in the same boot.

I feel like you should be more constructive with your influence.
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Constructive with his influence? What? Lol

[tag=17763]@JLev[/tag] clearly believes in a 3 piece boot design, you going to fault the man for saying what he thinks? If he got on here and said “I believe twin tip skis are fun to ride, people should ride them” would you say he isn’t being constructive with his influence? Give him a little ban? Lol
 
Don't say sorry.. it's great to see people and companies thinking different developing and offering not the same boot in a different color but a completely new or different style, fit, performance characteristics! That is my point, like people say above, a lot of boot fitters are set in their way, their way or the highway when in reality there are many different personal preferences from different skiers, looking for differnt fit, function and performance, thus reason boot fitters should be more open to FT and other brands and styles. Hell I don't even personally ski FT anymore, because as I got older my foot changed in shape and now a Lange is fitting me better.... all good, and reason the more the merrier. I'm obviously using the Bode example of why you can't pre judge which boot is good or not good for you or as a shop for your customers, until they step into it or ride it. AKA unlike shops want to believe, Bode rides Full Tilts.

14229582:Biffbarf said:
Sorry J, I know you're real tight with full tilt and all, and you may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like

View attachment 989493
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14229582:Biffbarf said:
Sorry J, I know you're real tight with full tilt and all, and you may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like

View attachment 989493
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Lmfao I got into an argument on Facebook with the official Apex boot page because I called their boots garbage and they tried to clown me ? unless you’re over 80 years old and don’t have the strength to put a boot on, Apex is dogshit. I’m a fitter so I’m all for different boots working for different people but I fucking hate these things, they’re like clown shoes ?
 
14229523:JLev said:
EXACTLY. This is why it's important for a boot fitter to keep an open mind offering more styles... including a 3-piece knowing every skiers will not fit best in only an overlap design.
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I’ve had multiple bootfitters in SLC scoff at me for wearing 3 piece boots. Dumb as fuck if you ask me, not everyone wants to be miserable as fuck in a stiff as fuck race boot all the time.
 
14229617:animator said:
Lmfao I got into an argument on Facebook with the official Apex boot page because I called their boots garbage and they tried to clown me ? unless you’re over 80 years old and don’t have the strength to put a boot on, Apex is dogshit. I’m a fitter so I’m all for different boots working for different people but I fucking hate these things, they’re like clown shoes ?
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Lots of ski shops use to tell me the same thing about twin tip skis 20 years ago. Not everyone today needs or likes the feel or performance of twin tip skis but there are plenty that wouldn't bother skiing if they didn't exist. If that boot is enabling more people to have more fun skiing, no reason to diss them.
 
was literally told the same thing

14229543:BradFiAusNzCoCa said:
I remember, first time getting fitted for boots, I asked about a 3-piece boot and the guy told me they don’t have a good heel lock. Then he fitted me for a boot with too big of a heel/volume (I was new to correct fitting boots - my mistake). He would later be in one of my college classes and I realized that was NOT the guy I should have been bootfitted by.
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Why was FT so slow to make updates to the original Raichle design and develop modern era 3-piece boots? I've owned FTs and Dalbellos and in my experience FT didn't stack up in performance or durability.
 
Can full tilt make a 3 piece style boot with the same low volume fit as the Salomon S Max 130?

This post brought to you by long foot low instep gang
 
14229732:Skibumsmith said:
Why was FT so slow to make updates to the original Raichle design and develop modern era 3-piece boots? I've owned FTs and Dalbellos and in my experience FT didn't stack up in performance or durability.
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Tens of thousands of skiers did not want us to change it, they loved the ORIGINAL Raichle Flexon boot exactly the way it was and were begging to bring it back as is. We purchased the original molds cheap so were able to continue building shells in those molds. Also we were selling small qtys and a new boot mold tooling for all sizes cost around $1million, so needed to first grow the business a bit before K2 Sports was willing to invest big money into developing new FT shells, buckles, etc. We brought it back in 2007 so it just takes time, sales, money to grow and develop new models.
 
989548.jpeg

Bill Johnson was a MF Boss! SIP

Love that he had that Raichle steeze but I think he would have won in any boot. Dude grew up in Oregon skiing all kinds of sketchy conditions. He got to the top by skiing faster and taking risks that the other racers wouldn’t. Bill pushed it to the limit and beyond and sadly died from his injuries from his last big ski crash
 
14229742:BigPurpleSkiSuit said:
Can full tilt make a 3 piece style boot with the same low volume fit as the Salomon S Max 130?

This post brought to you by long foot low instep gang
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Literally went from that boot to a first chair 8. It was a little narrow at that bump by my pinky toe (idk what it’s called) but after molding the liner I was Gucci. More importantly, haven’t had shin bang ever since!!
 
Im gonna check that boot out

14229837:ASAPCarter said:
Literally went from that boot to a first chair 8. It was a little narrow at that bump by my pinky toe (idk what it’s called) but after molding the liner I was Gucci. More importantly, haven’t had shin bang ever since!!
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14229786:Onederful said:
Would If I could Afford Them.... Not everyone can afford to purchase new boots. But ya don't see a lot of used full tilt boots.
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I see more used Full Tilts than any other boot especially on here and snowshare on instagram. Full Tilts are pretty damn affordable used too.
 
What a buncha bitches. Only people worse in the industry than PSIA level 3 ski instructors are boot fitters. You know how to tell if there is a boot fitter in the room? Don't worry, they'll tell you...

Plus if you can't ski rear entry rentals, you're doing it wrong.
 
Every time I see it, I love it more, I'm not sure what I love more, one of the greatest racers of all time in a product i had a part in bringing to market or the collective freakouts of boot fitters, race coaches and other company product managers losing their minds.

To add to the backstory here, he actually just cold-called customer service and that kicked off the relationship with Bode ever since with FT, they guy loves biomechanics, gear in general, and truly believes in the 3 piece design, he also was the driving force in making a 12 flex tongue which makes a real real stiff boot (if you're into that)
 
I have never come across a fitter who discounts the 3 piece. Maybe it's a regional thing, maybe it's the "type" of fitter that people go to. They don't work for me outside of the Nordica Ace series which is sadly discontinued.

My issue with the OP is that the wording of "brainwashed" probably leads already soft skulled kids to think that the only reason that a fitter might not recommend a boot for them is conditioning. I don't think that is a uniform distinction, just like "get Full Tilt's" isn't necessarily the answer.
 
I had a pair of FC 10s worked on by a fitter a few years ago, and he (as well as the rest of the fitters) genuinely seemed excited about FTs. Older guy too, but we were local (Seattle) to FT/K2 and sounded like he knew a guy or two there (got me a spare cable part surprisingly fast).

I've since moved on to Dalbello Kryptons, but I always have a soft spot for FTs/3 piece boots in general and will always consider them when it's time for new boots.
 
14229903:drifts said:
View attachment 989570

So when’s the Bode Miller pro model carbon reinforced full tilt race boot going to come out?
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I'd love to see a burly FT downhill boot that isn't just a First Chair with a 12 flex tongue slapped on. [tag=154780]@tomPietrowski[/tag] did some sort of mock rendering of a FT boot on his IG where it looked like the cuff extended/wrapped around the front like the Kryptons/2 piece boots (for more lateral power?) instead of cables. But I'm sure whatever Bode actually rides isn't/won't be what's made available to the general public.
 
Actually bode just wears a classic believe it or not. We did have stiffer tongues and spoilers for him but this season he just has the 12's. The one bigger mod he does do is change the ramp angle of the boot board but this is something which anyone can easily do. Other than that its a stock boot.

14229925:OhJay said:
I'd love to see a burly FT downhill boot that isn't just a First Chair with a 12 flex tongue slapped on. [tag=154780]@tomPietrowski[/tag] did some sort of mock rendering of a FT boot on his IG where it looked like the cuff extended/wrapped around the front like the Kryptons/2 piece boots (for more lateral power?) instead of cables. But I'm sure whatever Bode actually rides isn't/won't be what's made available to the general public.
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14229786:Onederful said:
Would If I could Afford Them.... Not everyone can afford to purchase new boots. But ya don't see a lot of used full tilt boots.
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Go eBay or Facebook, there’s a fuck ton out there. Just copped last years First Chair 10 for 150 dollars with 3 days on them
 
14229929:tomPietrowski said:
Actually bode just wears a classic believe it or not. We did have stiffer tongues and spoilers for him but this season he just has the 12's. The one bigger mod he does do is change the ramp angle of the boot board but this is something which anyone can easily do. Other than that its a stock boot.
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Is he just doing casual skiing on the more stock boots? Because the fulltilts I’ve seen pictures of him racing on were heavily modified with buckle changes and carbon spoilers
 
Those ones were modded to make them FIS legal but he is not doing that now. But the spoiler were just stiffer versions of stock ones as were the tongues. He then just used a buckle over the toe like we do on the ascendants for example. The only real change was the stand height. For the most part they really were not too different then a stock Classic Pro and what he is in now is essentially what you could buy today.

14229976:drifts said:
Is he just doing casual skiing on the more stock boots? Because the fulltilts I’ve seen pictures of him racing on were heavily modified with buckle changes and carbon spoilers
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Just came here to say that after YEARS of modification, discomfort, and ski boot issues in a ton of different models that were "right" for me (Technicha, Dalbello, Lange, Scarpa, Salomon) I finally said screw it and bought a set of full tilts. I had competed big mountain and filmed a lot in the past and many very reputable boot fitters told me that there was no way I could ski a full tilt because "they are too soft laterally" "not a high-performance boot" "only for park rats" whatever the fuck that means. shin splints, lost toenails, and fucking bone spurs that needed surgery were caused by literally hundreds and hundreds of days in "high performance" boots recommended by boot fitters that caused pain so bad it would routinely end my day. I have 2 weeks in my full tilt classics, and I'll be damned if they don't fit like a glove. And as it turns out, I spend basically no time carving racer turns anymore, so lateral stiffness effectively means nothing as long as there is an acceptable level. they ski better than 99% of the "crossover big mountain" boots with walk mode that you see boot-snobs flocking to and they cost half the price.

TL;DR Boot fitters will charge you an arm and a leg to put you in the wrong boot. trust your own instincts, get the boot that fits your foot, and don't let any crusty ass cork sniffer tell you that they don't work for big mountain.
 
first time I asked about ft at the local ski shop the dude in charge called the rib "old and outdated tech from the 60s" and also continued to state that they are very unforgiving to the feet. whatever that means.
 
14229990:tomPietrowski said:
Those ones were modded to make them FIS legal but he is not doing that now. But the spoiler were just stiffer versions of stock ones as were the tongues. He then just used a buckle over the toe like we do on the ascendants for example. The only real change was the stand height. For the most part they really were not too different then a stock Classic Pro and what he is in now is essentially what you could buy today.
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any chance of getting those stiffer spoilers available to buy like the tongues?
 
if there was demand sure. But we don’t really hear much from people wanting to stiffen the cuff. But if there is demand we can do it but minimum order numbers mean it’s not the kind of thing we can just make a few pairs of.

14230149:drifts said:
any chance of getting those stiffer spoilers available to buy like the tongues?
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Interesting post, went to the local ski shop and asked to try on some FT boots... were told they are old tech. Still tried them on but was pushed to a different boot. After purchasing 5 different boots I found the boot that fits me very well.

One thing other boot companies do need to do like FT is offer parts for boots that can be easily bought!!! I cannot figure out the ski industry and not selling parts!! This was a big selling point and reason I wanted to try some FT boots.
 
14230169:tomPietrowski said:
if there was demand sure. But we don’t really hear much from people wanting to stiffen the cuff. But if there is demand we can do it but minimum order numbers mean it’s not the kind of thing we can just make a few pairs of.
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It probably wouldn’t be as big a seller as the tongues but I’d get a new pair of full tilts to try out the bodie stiffness parts
 
14230169:tomPietrowski said:
if there was demand sure. But we don’t really hear much from people wanting to stiffen the cuff. But if there is demand we can do it but minimum order numbers mean it’s not the kind of thing we can just make a few pairs of.
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What do you gain from increasing the stiffness in the cuff?
 
Most people wont really notice much, but when racing for example if they get thrown backseat if the cuff is not stiff enough it can be harder to recover back into the front of the boot. That is why Bode wanted to stiffen them, he actually wanted to change the flex pattern of the cuff too but again this will not be something anyone else but world cup guys would ever notice.

14230216:Skibumsmith said:
What do you gain from increasing the stiffness in the cuff?
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Just wanted to comment on the "different boots for different skiers"- absolutely and I can't stress this enough. I'll never forget a boot fitter in VT telling my brother there is absolutely no way he could charge hard in a boot softer than 120 flex, let alone a full tilt. (I ride big mountain in full tilt B&E's at 90 flex, my brother has a very similar style and ski setup). I can tell for you for MY skiing style and MY skis, nothing works for 20 ft cliffs, fast chunder run outs, and sketchy back flips like a FT B&E. I usually ride pretty loose and centered, with too-long and on the softer side powder skis mounted a little behind center, and a boot that allows your balance point to wander over the skis somewhat while still holding you tight and in control (and thus tolerates small mistakes much more) works for my skiing style very well.

But I also have a friend who rides shorter, stiffer powder skis mounted dead center with a stiff Dalbello boot and absolutely crushes it. I don't tell him he needs a FT noodle on his feet, and he doesn't push me into a stiff rock of a boot. Different styles. A boot fitter is probably most qualified to tell you how get a boot that fits, but (IMO), they often fail to make sure it's the boot that fits your style and ski set up. IF you know what works for, you don't let a boot fitter talk you into something else
 
For huckery softer boots are great you don’t get broken off over the back cuff... if you light on your feet ninja 120 flex boots and 18 dins are not that important that is if you don’t weigh 200+

14230643:IsaacNW82 said:
Just wanted to comment on the "different boots for different skiers"- absolutely and I can't stress this enough. I'll never forget a boot fitter in VT telling my brother there is absolutely no way he could charge hard in a boot softer than 120 flex, let alone a full tilt. (I ride big mountain in full tilt B&E's at 90 flex, my brother has a very similar style and ski setup). I can tell for you for MY skiing style and MY skis, nothing works for 20 ft cliffs, fast chunder run outs, and sketchy back flips like a FT B&E. I usually ride pretty loose and centered, with too-long and on the softer side powder skis mounted a little behind center, and a boot that allows your balance point to wander over the skis somewhat while still holding you tight and in control (and thus tolerates small mistakes much more) works for my skiing style very well.

But I also have a friend who rides shorter, stiffer powder skis mounted dead center with a stiff Dalbello boot and absolutely crushes it. I don't tell him he needs a FT noodle on his feet, and he doesn't push me into a stiff rock of a boot. Different styles. A boot fitter is probably most qualified to tell you how get a boot that fits, but (IMO), they often fail to make sure it's the boot that fits your style and ski set up. IF you know what works for, you don't let a boot fitter talk you into something else
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14229594:JLev said:
Hell I don't even personally ski FT anymore, because as I got older my foot changed in shape and now a Lange is fitting me better....
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Bode Miller skis in full tilts and JLev skis in Langes... never thought I'd see the day.
 
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