BOA Boots - Any and All Questions

14556055:sicbith said:
There were 3 different shops in my area which had BOA boots for sale in the store in late Feb 23. There may have been more, but I know of at least 3. I never thought BOA would be so polarizing, especially among people in shops, which I guessing many of you here work in shops. It’s amazing that you can’t have questions or real life experiences which are (not negative towards) but not entirely pro BOA without being labeled as someone who doesn’t know anything about BOA. I guess they’ve done a great job marketing the tech. The the fall gear tests are coming out, the boots are in shops, ultimately our customers will determine how BOA works for them, not us.
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This isn’t directed at you personally. I just think the issue at hand is most people give their opinion based off experience with the older boa boots that have been around for a while now. Which typically aren’t great and have put a very bad taste in a lot of people’s mouths, and not only in the ski world but a lot of places where boa is applied.

so the negative comments or concerns typically come from a place of experience with one of those priors systems. The issue with that is the new boa that’s now slowly being released isn’t those old systems. It’s not even close to the old systems other than having a dial and a cable.

people not only in the industry itself but many reviewers have been testing these products from various companies for a while now and they all seem to say the same thing. This is not only better, it’s a game changer when it comes to how a ski boot fits and performers.

You have companies essentially saying “if we didn’t have old heads holding onto buckles for no other reason than nostalgia, we’d basically be producing 99% of our boots with boa now that this system exists”.

i do agree that in the end the customers will decide so only time will tell.
 
14556061:PartyBullshiit said:
This isn’t directed at you personally. I just think the issue at hand is most people give their opinion based off experience with the older boa boots that have been around for a while now. Which typically aren’t great and have put a very bad taste in a lot of people’s mouths, and not only in the ski world but a lot of places where boa is applied.

so the negative comments or concerns typically come from a place of experience with one of those priors systems. The issue with that is the new boa that’s now slowly being released isn’t those old systems. It’s not even close to the old systems other than having a dial and a cable.

people not only in the industry itself but many reviewers have been testing these products from various companies for a while now and they all seem to say the same thing. This is not only better, it’s a game changer when it comes to how a ski boot fits and performers.

You have companies essentially saying “if we didn’t have old heads holding onto buckles for no other reason than nostalgia, we’d basically be producing 99% of our boots with boa now that this system exists”.

i do agree that in the end the customers will decide so only time will tell.
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This is ridiculous. The system is not radically different, merely updated and allegedly more durable. You are correct in your statement that time will tell. The general public can be pretty abusive on gear and has minimal appetite for fiddling with things and replacing parts on their boots. I know the boots have been tested for a while but that's by gear people, regular people test things differently.
 
14556084:Non_State_Actor said:
This is ridiculous. The system is not radically different, merely updated and allegedly more durable. You are correct in your statement that time will tell. The general public can be pretty abusive on gear and has minimal appetite for fiddling with things and replacing parts on their boots. I know the boots have been tested for a while but that's by gear people, regular people test things differently.
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Fully agree that the general public will manage to do things to boots that none of us producing them could ever imagine. But we try our best to abuse them and test them as best we can. I can say personally I have damaged less boa parts (I’m actually using my very first proto parts still) then I damage buckles in a regular season so my hopes are high.

As for how different the new system is it actually is radically different than anything they have made before both in terms of durability and function. They are actually taking things from this system and incorporating them into their other applications as it works so much better.

But it’s new I get that and new things can be less appealing for some people and that is why we offered both buckles and boa still as all the other brands in phase one have done. I can confidently say our boa boots fit and perform better than our buckle boots but we feel like giving people the choice is the best way to go.
 
I personally love the boa and have ordered the mindbender 130 (extra stoked on the liner secondary boa). As someone who practically doesn't touch the lower buckles on a boot, the boa allows that section of the boot to be loose without dangling buckles that can break. (I even straight up removed the lower buckle on my last boot, FT Ascendent). Now waiting for them to add an upper cuff boa :)
 
14556908:MisfitSkis said:
I personally love the boa and have ordered the mindbender 130 (extra stoked on the liner secondary boa). As someone who practically doesn't touch the lower buckles on a boot, the boa allows that section of the boot to be loose without dangling buckles that can break. (I even straight up removed the lower buckle on my last boot, FT Ascendent). Now waiting for them to add an upper cuff boa :)
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Awesome hope you are stoked on them! That Mindbender boot really is a beast I have so many people requesting them haha. And we are always developing new things so who knows upper cuff may well be on the way eventually :)
 
as far as touring boots go, is there specific dos and donts in relation to the boa? specifically for the uphill? my current uphill boot is not comfortable at all but it was free lol
 
14557877:partyandBS said:
as far as touring boots go, is there specific dos and donts in relation to the boa? specifically for the uphill? my current uphill boot is not comfortable at all but it was free lol
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Only thing I could really think of is don't have the dial disengaged fully. If you did this the cable is loose so you could snag it on something potentially. When I have walked in my Mindbenders I just keep the cable loose but still engaged.

It's worth mentioning too that the system we are using on boots like the Mindbender or Atomic has on the XTD is very different than is used on true touring boots.
 
14557879:tomPietrowski said:
It's worth mentioning too that the system we are using on boots like the Mindbender or Atomic has on the XTD is very different than is used on true touring boots.
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im a touring novice lol. can you elaborate??
 
14557881:partyandBS said:
im a touring novice lol. can you elaborate??
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Well for example if you look at teh Atomic Backland or Fischer touring boots which use BOA, the BOA system used on those boots is not the same BOA alpine system which is used on freeride boots like the Mindbender or XTD.

1077989.jpeg

1077990.jpeg

You can see the differences in Dial size and system above. Basically don't confuse the two systems. The one used on touring boots will not be as strong or close the boots anything like as much as the new alpine system. Unless you are looking for a really lightweight boot the freeride boots using the alpine BOA system is what you should look for.
 
I have Zipfit liners and I swear to 3 piece boots (Dalbellos Panterras 130s).

I want to keep my liner, do you have any recommendations for wider boots with BOA?
 
14557895:polmei said:
I have Zipfit liners and I swear to 3 piece boots (Dalbellos Panterras 130s).

I want to keep my liner, do you have any recommendations for wider boots with BOA?
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I would say from skiing them all the Salomon is the widest but all can easily be made wider so I would say go try some on with your liner and see what works best for you.
 
14557898:tomPietrowski said:
I would say from skiing them all the Salomon is the widest but all can easily be made wider so I would say go try some on with your liner and see what works best for you.
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The Supra pro is the widest?
 
14557961:PartyBullshiit said:
The Supra pro is the widest?
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Highest volume. Remember last and volume are not the same thing. We offer a multi last story but all our boots are mid volume still.

I would say of the current offerings the Salomon is the highest volume out of the box but still offers a very good wrap and closure
 
14557964:tomPietrowski said:
Highest volume. Remember last and volume are not the same thing. We offer a multi last story but all our boots are mid volume still.

I would say of the current offerings the Salomon is the highest volume out of the box but still offers a very good wrap and closure
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Sorry I was talking about volume, shouldn’t have said widest. I have no tried on a Salomon yet but it was recommended to me based off fit. But I don’t need large volume.
 
14557968:PartyBullshiit said:
Sorry I was talking about volume, shouldn’t have said widest. I have no tried on a Salomon yet but it was recommended to me based off fit. But I don’t need large volume.
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I would give it a try and the K2 too see what you like the most.
 
14557883:tomPietrowski said:
Well for example if you look at teh Atomic Backland or Fischer touring boots which use BOA, the BOA system used on those boots is not the same BOA alpine system which is used on freeride boots like the Mindbender or XTD.

View attachment 1077989

View attachment 1077990

You can see the differences in Dial size and system above. Basically don't confuse the two systems. The one used on touring boots will not be as strong or close the boots anything like as much as the new alpine system. Unless you are looking for a really lightweight boot the freeride boots using the alpine BOA system is what you should look for.
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tomPietrowski,

While I was reading thru this thread I saw mention of the Mindebender 120/130 boot (as seen in the quote above) which had Boa on both the lower portion of the ski as well as the liner. I've also noticed boots such as the K2 Dispatch Pro which only have the BOA system on the liner. Thus I was curious what are the advantages / benefits of a BOA system on the liner that I as a skier might see.

I'm currently thinking about replacing my very old Nordic W2 boots (my first ski boots) that I ski on maybe 10 to 20 days a year for the last 20 years. For further context, if it makes any difference in your response... I'm mostly a piste skier, who avoids moguls, loves steep/fast runs of any skill level (think snowbird, jackson hole, etc), and will occasionally run though the woods looking for un-skied powder. And I am not a backcountry, alpine touring, or terrain park skier.

K2 boots that I was eyeing consist of:

- K2 Dispatch Pro 2023

- K2 Recon 120 BOA

- K2 Mindbender 120 BOA

- K2 Mindbender 130 BOA

That said I think you mentioned in the quoted response that Alpine boot's boa systems are stronger then a Touring boot's boa system. So since the K2 Mindbender 130 seems to be more touring oriented does that mean that the other K2 boots I mentioned have a stronger BOA system? Again just curious as I'm trying educate myself on the available products, as I hope the next ski boot I buy will last me the next 10 to 20 years.

Thanks,

-jeschaff63
 
14561499:jeschaff63 said:
tomPietrowski,

While I was reading thru this thread I saw mention of the Mindebender 120/130 boot (as seen in the quote above) which had Boa on both the lower portion of the ski as well as the liner. I've also noticed boots such as the K2 Dispatch Pro which only have the BOA system on the liner. Thus I was curious what are the advantages / benefits of a BOA system on the liner that I as a skier might see.

I'm currently thinking about replacing my very old Nordic W2 boots (my first ski boots) that I ski on maybe 10 to 20 days a year for the last 20 years. For further context, if it makes any difference in your response... I'm mostly a piste skier, who avoids moguls, loves steep/fast runs of any skill level (think snowbird, jackson hole, etc), and will occasionally run though the woods looking for un-skied powder. And I am not a backcountry, alpine touring, or terrain park skier.

K2 boots that I was eyeing consist of:

- K2 Dispatch Pro 2023

- K2 Recon 120 BOA

- K2 Mindbender 120 BOA

- K2 Mindbender 130 BOA

That said I think you mentioned in the quoted response that Alpine boot's boa systems are stronger then a Touring boot's boa system. So since the K2 Mindbender 130 seems to be more touring oriented does that mean that the other K2 boots I mentioned have a stronger BOA system? Again just curious as I'm trying educate myself on the available products, as I hope the next ski boot I buy will last me the next 10 to 20 years.

Thanks,

-jeschaff63
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The BOA liner is really dope! It basically offers the same as laces in that it will synch in teh foot much better to the liner but the big advantage is you can tighten it after the cuff is buckled. What I mean by this is with laces you cant ajust them once the cuff is buckled up with the BOA you can tighten it at any point.

From what you have said I would be looking at one of the Recon BOA boots. If you are mainly a resort skier who does not tour then they will be perfect. As for which flex to get really comes down to how stiff you need. Maybe go try some on with a fitter and see what flex they recommend.
 
14561812:tomPietrowski said:
The BOA liner is really dope! It basically offers the same as laces in that it will synch in teh foot much better to the liner but the big advantage is you can tighten it after the cuff is buckled. What I mean by this is with laces you cant ajust them once the cuff is buckled up with the BOA you can tighten it at any point.

From what you have said I would be looking at one of the Recon BOA boots. If you are mainly a resort skier who does not tour then they will be perfect. As for which flex to get really comes down to how stiff you need. Maybe go try some on with a fitter and see what flex they recommend.
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Thank you so much for the response and insights.

As many others have said in this forum / thread, it was a great idea on your part to do this, and the resulting information is invaluable to those of us entertaining the idea of switching from the buckle system to the BOA system.
 
14561828:jeschaff63 said:
Thank you so much for the response and insights.

As many others have said in this forum / thread, it was a great idea on your part to do this, and the resulting information is invaluable to those of us entertaining the idea of switching from the buckle system to the BOA system.
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Thank! and Im happy to get this info out there. I get there will be some skepticism but BOA is going to be so huge in ski boots I really hope as many people as possible check them out early.
 
14555968:sicbith said:
We all know BOA is a proven way to close a shoe, boot, snowboard boot etc, no questions there. I’ll have a BOA on the right and a buckle on the left and my customer will ask why should I spend $125 more to go with BOA? I tell them ease of use, less force needed to close the shell, etc. it’s hard to say there’s a performance gain. I can say it takes less energy to close, but a foot can only handle so much compression before it fatigues. How that compression is achieved doesn’t really matter?

BOA has obviously put a lot of $$ into this tech. Do they have any oversight of the boot design?

At this point I have customers walking in looking at the wall and asking for see what boots work, they are not asking for BOA at all, they just want to get the right boot for their foot. You mentioned BOA being the new full tilt. Where is that coming from?
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sicbith...

I saw you had a lengthy discussion related to your customers who only ski a limited number of days a year, and if a customer like that might even consider a BOA given the premium price tag. On that note, I'm not sure this helps or not, but I'll offer my perspective. I'm a consumer / skier who manages to travel to and ski Denver/Utah for only 10 to 14 days a year. My days are limited for a number of reasons such as travel costs, resort costs, travel time, vacation days, the rest of my family doesn't like to ski, etc...

Therefore, when I go skiing out west I'm all about maximizing my time and enjoyment on the mountain. Where the last thing I want to encounter with my ski boots are hotspots and or blisters that cause significant discomfort, and could thus reduce the time I get to spend skiing on the mountain.

As I look to obtain new boots I'm absolutely considering the BOA system (both BOA on the boot shell as well as BOA on the liner) due to the hype around them fitting better, reducing foot movement, and overall being more comfortable. Not being in the boot business or a local/lifetime skier, I translate this to reduction in hotspots and blisters on the foot and shin, less effort carving, and it might even help with warmth if my foot isn't crushed by torqueing down the buckles to ensure my foot isn't moving.

So for me personally it would be worth every penny if BOA ski boots live up to the promises / hype, as boot comfort enabling me to spend more time on the mountain is the most important thing to me. In the end that's why I'm reading a ton of reviews, and forum posts all of which seem to suggest the BOA system lives up to the hype. Next I'll be hitting up a ski shop and hopefully trying on some of the different boots to see which ones might work for me.
 
14561876:jeschaff63 said:
sicbith...

I saw you had a lengthy discussion related to your customers who only ski a limited number of days a year, and if a customer like that might even consider a BOA given the premium price tag. On that note, I'm not sure this helps or not, but I'll offer my perspective. I'm a consumer / skier who manages to travel to and ski Denver/Utah for only 10 to 14 days a year. My days are limited for a number of reasons such as travel costs, resort costs, travel time, vacation days, the rest of my family doesn't like to ski, etc...

Therefore, when I go skiing out west I'm all about maximizing my time and enjoyment on the mountain. Where the last thing I want to encounter with my ski boots are hotspots and or blisters that cause significant discomfort, and could thus reduce the time I get to spend skiing on the mountain.

As I look to obtain new boots I'm absolutely considering the BOA system (both BOA on the boot shell as well as BOA on the liner) due to the hype around them fitting better, reducing foot movement, and overall being more comfortable. Not being in the boot business or a local/lifetime skier, I translate this to reduction in hotspots and blisters on the foot and shin, less effort carving, and it might even help with warmth if my foot isn't crushed by torqueing down the buckles to ensure my foot isn't moving.

So for me personally it would be worth every penny if BOA ski boots live up to the promises / hype, as boot comfort enabling me to spend more time on the mountain is the most important thing to me. In the end that's why I'm reading a ton of reviews, and forum posts all of which seem to suggest the BOA system lives up to the hype. Next I'll be hitting up a ski shop and hopefully trying on some of the different boots to see which ones might work for me.
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Hi, I'm psyched your looking at getting new boots. I think you may have been mistaken in thinking I have any issues with BOA or how it closes a boot. It's good you're going into this journey with an open mind to find the model which works best for your feet, not just making a purchase based on marketing. All of those things you mention, reduction in foot movement, reduction in hotspots and blisters. A great fitting boot eliminates all of those things no matter with type of buckle is on the boot.

Take a look at the America's Best Boot Test in the SKI magazine gear guide. This is put on by the industry leaders in boot fitting shops around the country. They ranked a lot of boots based on their last, and performance against their peers. It's a great resource.

Also, congrats on joining NS.
 
hoping someone might know the answer.

I'm currently in a s pro 120 HV, would the supra 120 be an equivalent replacement or should I wait for a HV variation? (ie. would it be able to be heat molded to achieve the same fit?)
 
14562250:lion.pappa said:
hoping someone might know the answer.

I'm currently in a s pro 120 HV, would the supra 120 be an equivalent replacement or should I wait for a HV variation? (ie. would it be able to be heat molded to achieve the same fit?)
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I have skied all the boa boots for the 23/24 season and I do think the salomon is the highest volume of all of them. I think it would certainly be worth a try. If it is a bit tight from what I understand a lot of high volume boa boots will be entering the market next season.
 
I see, thanks for the reply. I'll go give it a try sometime!

14562376:tomPietrowski said:
I have skied all the boa boots for the 23/24 season and I do think the salomon is the highest volume of all of them. I think it would certainly be worth a try. If it is a bit tight from what I understand a lot of high volume boa boots will be entering the market next season.
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Hey Tom, how Strong is the Walk Mechanism in the Park or BC Kicker ??? Thanks

14562376:tomPietrowski said:
I have skied all the boa boots for the 23/24 season and I do think the salomon is the highest volume of all of them. I think it would certainly be worth a try. If it is a bit tight from what I understand a lot of high volume boa boots will be entering the market next season.
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We have our new locking walk mech on all mindbender boots this season which stops it being possible for it to slip. Like any boot you want to ensure all screws are kept tight. That is where we see most issues, screws begin to loosen and people keep skiing and that is when they can have problems. So as long as you keep things tight they will be great. For reference Jake Carney rode mindbender boots for 3 seasons for everything which included sending it to flat on every feature in sight.

14562738:TheOldSchooler said:
Hey Tom, how Strong is the Walk Mechanism in the Park or BC Kicker ??? Thanks
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topic:tomPietrowski said:
So its mid Sept which means ski season is just around the corner! Brands are putting up their new websites with all the new products and for once ski boots are taking the lead in terms of what's new in the industry.

You pretty much would have had to be living under a rock to not realize BOA is entering the alpine ski boot market. Boots are now hitting the shops and online and I'm sure there are questions out there so I wanted to open up this thread so we can have any and all BOA ski boot related questions in one place. Want to know how strong the cable is or why we put the dial where we did let me know. No dumb questions, well actually....

If you have any questions about anything BOA let me know and I’ll share all the info I can!
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Did the walk mode change on the mindbender from 23-24? Or just 22-23?
 
14564330:PartyBullshiit said:
Did the walk mode change on the mindbender from 23-24? Or just 22-23?
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The updated walk mode is on all mindbender boots this season. But if you have a mindbender boot from previous years you can update the walkmode to the new locking one.
 
14564563:tomPietrowski said:
The updated walk mode is on all mindbender boots this season. But if you have a mindbender boot from previous years you can update the walkmode to the new locking one.
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Will the recon have any changes for 25 other than colors options? Tech all the same or are any tweaks coming to the new boa set up?
 
14567067:PartyBullshiit said:
Will the recon have any changes for 25 other than colors options? Tech all the same or are any tweaks coming to the new boa set up?
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For 24/25 we will be adding adtional flex options and some new liners but for the most part the boots will just be updated with new colors.
 
14567072:tomPietrowski said:
For 24/25 we will be adding adtional flex options and some new liners but for the most part the boots will just be updated with new colors.
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As in more lower options? If I have the 130 am I missing out on anything for 25? Also can I put a 130 mindbender boa liner in a recon?
 
14567084:PartyBullshiit said:
As in more lower options? If I have the 130 am I missing out on anything for 25? Also can I put a 130 mindbender boa liner in a recon?
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Nope not missing out on anything with those! And yes you could put a mindbender liner in them but we don’t sell those liners aftermarket yet unfortunately
 
14567086:tomPietrowski said:
Nope not missing out on anything with those! And yes you could put a mindbender liner in them but we don’t sell those liners aftermarket yet unfortunately
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Yet? As in there are plans in the future to do so just no eta? A 24 boa 130 recon with a 130 boa mindbender liner would be the ultimate combo for in bounds.
 
Is there anywhere local to Norcal/Tahoe area that carries a wide range of K2 boa boots so that I can get fitted in a pair that would work best for me??
 
14580621:jkinikin said:
Is there anywhere local to Norcal/Tahoe area that carries a wide range of K2 boa boots so that I can get fitted in a pair that would work best for me??
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Our ski product manager lives in Tahoma I’ll find out from here where you should check out.
 
14567086:tomPietrowski said:
Nope not missing out on anything with those! And yes you could put a mindbender liner in them but we don’t sell those liners aftermarket yet unfortunately
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can i buy the new booster strap w/o having to talk to a person in a shop? i want one
 
Maybe I was dreaming but did I see a wrap liner with boa closure on Instagram a few weeks ago?

That would be the most amazing thing of all time
 
14583438:apc.fr said:
Maybe I was dreaming but did I see a wrap liner with boa closure on Instagram a few weeks ago?

That would be the most amazing thing of all time
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You did see that :) We have developed a new Intuition BOA wrap liner which we will use in some Recon/Anthem and mindbender BOA boots
 
14555199:deelonmusk said:
BOA Alpine boots are legit. Have tested several pairs and it’s truly a better system than buckles.
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How did you find a place to test them out? I'm trying to find places in Colorado to test before buying.
 
You basically add either a longer v cut to the back of the lower shell or you can add two smaller v cuts to the lateral and medial side of the lower shell. Any decent boot fitter can do this for you.

14591181:TheOldSchooler said:
How could I make a 130 Flex Boa Softer ??
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I saw a 2025 Women’s BOA BFC 105 on a website today, will they be widespread before fall??? I’d love to finish the season in them! I’d love to buy them local vs online.
 
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