there is no argument. you are just spaming my thread whit bull shit. your reference to the old threads didnt make anything clear to me. the only thing i found in them was clever jokes about a blunt being a joint (much like this thread). and alot of people explaining it was a true tail grab (also in this thread before you ariwed. but! there was someone else that also thought it was a spin, whitch back up my initial question a bit, but only in the sence that it makes it legit. it doesnt answer it at all. so shit still stands unanswered