Bickering of sell/trade

Randy_Quench

Randy_Quench

Active member
I dont know about anyone else, but I think the constant arguments in Sell/Trade are doing much more harm than good. I understand NS doesn't want kids making 900 threads on the same jacket they want $1,000,000 for.. but sale threads nowa days are 90% bickering.
If someone is selling something overpriced, let them. its THEIR thread selling THEIR property. back off their case. They would learn for themselves if it doesnt sell quickly that they have set too high of a price.
TheClap is famous for his comments on sale threads and although he may be correct about your pricing, condition, or whatever. It just isnt his business. Clap, Im not calling you out. Just saying you cause a lot of un-needed arguments here and there. So dont take this last paragraph the wrong way. You wouldn't harass someone with something for sale on craigslist, so why harass an NSer?

I guess the only solution I can think of is to regulate comments in sale threads? Idk how to go about doing so, as I know Mods are busy people with lives. Thoughts?
 
i agree 100%

or just ban someone if they argue more than like 5 times a week?

i dont know

i just think something should happen about this
 
I rather have bickering then some new member get ripped off because he didn't know how much an old jiberish piece was worth.

 
IMO: if you are selling your belongings on the internet, then you should do your research before hand. I have never understood how people get ripped off. Even when buying something new offline I do research to make sure im not getting ripped off.
 
This is the response I figured I would get, which is reasonable because admins have five other forums to tend to as well as the site as a whole, and mods have lives outside of deleting stupid shit. So tending to sale/trade isnt really top priority for you. I know where you are coming from in saying "if you dont like it dont use it" but is that really how we should react to the problem? NS has a really specific sale forum where you can find things much easier than pretty much anywhere else, craigslist and ebay included. You cant just go to ebay and find your entire setup for next season.. or sell a piece of jibberish for its true "worth".
What if we had a button within threads specific to the sale forum. Where an OP can "report" a person if they harass your thread, once an OP click the button next to three of your comments, your account is locked from posting in said thread.
 
and flipping is specifically stated to be against NS forum rules, but seeing as no one moderates sell trade(COME ON MODS FUKING DO YOUR JOB), someone has to do it

I 100% approve of any and all of Clap's posts in s/t, he is right 99% of the time
 
Mods dont touch sales. Not with a 10 foot pole. We are NOT liable for the transactions done on this site in ANY way.
 
liable and moderating are 100% different and you know that rowen

I'm so fucking sick of seeing you guys use that excuse, you know it's complete bull shit. Update the user license agreement so it states that use of sell trade is done so at your own risk and that ns is not responsible for any transactions done. Doing so removes and chance of ns being liable for anything, it's that easy. Every other forum I'm on HEAVILY moderates sell trade because they have that clearly stated, and the fact that actual money is in play(thousands of dollars on these other forums(which have much more to worry about with liability compared to selling hoodies and ski gear). But wait, that's the logical thing to do, and we all know ns never does anything logical, just stupid bull shit that doesn't improve the site in any way.

If there is a clearly stated rule that involves s/t in the forum rules, then as mods it is your duty to enforce that rule, if you don't want to do that, then maybe you shouldn't be a mod.

I'm sure NS's parent company has at least 1 lawyer(fuck even use JD) and get him to write up a new ULA, and make it pop up forcing everyone to agree to it before they are able to log in again. this would 100% remove any chance of ns being held liable for anything in any way.

but seeing as NS staff is obviously to bussy to even fix the icon uploader that has been broken for months, I honestly have no hope for this or anything else that would improve this site to ever get done.
 
100% this.

It makes no sense at all to make a forum rule stating that flipping is a bannable offense and then just not regulate BST. I really don't see why it would be a liability to delete a thread where a kid is blatantly flipping his stuff? Please explain that to me.
 
First off please drop the "every other forum on the internet" reasons, because well, we are not "every other forum on the internet". We've been doing this a long time and we know very well that what works elsewhere doesn't work here, and vice-versa, that's what makes NS such an oddity in the forum world, and why we make many of the decisions we do.

On the discussion of "liability", its not quite the blanket statement you seem to make it. It is the reason we don't play middle man to any transactions, and the reason we don't get in between members during disputes. If we did that we'd have to have a full time mediator, just not going to happen.

In terms of moderation, we do moderate the content of the forum to a certain extent for various things, but we cannot take the time to validate every sale thread. Yes some other forums have specific requirements for posting a sale thread, but the types of sales people post here, and the way they format them it would be almost impossible to control. There is so much grey area for what pictures are required, what information you have to list etc etc etc, nothing fits a standard mold. The only way this will change is if we ever implement a proper classifieds section, but even then we cannot vet everything a person posts.

As far as the original topic of bickering, people have every right to comment on a sale, just some are more jackasses than others. Thats the same as the regular forums. If we were moderating every comment in BST then bumps would be removed too as they are just annoying as hell in my opinion, but we're not. Our mods do a great job of the ridiculous task they hold, and having them check each and every comment in BST would be a ludacris undertaking.

We have from day one said that the B/S/T forums are use at your own risk. Take some time, do your research on what you are buying, ask for extra pictures if you don't think its enough, get legitimate contact information, and if anything isn't up to your liking then just don't complete the transaction.

As far as the Reporting function, that is something we've talked about internally for a while. What you have to remember is everything on NS is 100% custom, so even the smallest changes are not so small, and I can assure you that is not a small change. We don't run vBulletin where we can just turn features on and off at will. We have an extremely small team with limited budget for development, and an extremely long list of fixes and changes.
 
I will continue to bitch at kids who:

1) post wtb forums in s/t

2) make threads without pictures

3) make threads without prices aka feelers or I want to see how much I can get before I sell, which use to have a sticky saying feelers we not allowed

4) members who buy shit off of one person just to flip it for more money (use to be a ban offense)

5) members who bitch in every other thread but do not expect the same in theirs

6) making the same thread multi times, increasing the price in every thread, key words same threads increasing the price

7) kids who have a price, get the offer they want, then look for more

8) kids selling their random shit like xs baby gap t's, calculators, and nothing ski related, just pure shit.

9) kids not having any clue what their shit is worth, which I usually pm them giving them a heads up

10) kids asking 100+ for a jiberish t

11) kids who try to be like me and make alias with my name

12) sketchy kids will get called out

any of you immature little kids want to see a real forum, go over to TGR and see how they treat you when you do all of the above. You think I'm bad? Just imagine 100+ of me.
 
BST is essentially Craigslist, just with the ridiculous email offers and comments available to all publicly.

It's a venue that we will not spend time policing. If something inappropriate that violates the overall site's TOS is posted, we will act on that; But being a jackass is not against the site rules. If it were, we would have a much fewer amount of members.
 
Or why not join him and give him a hand. TGR's system of self moderation has been working without flaw for a while...
 
Personally I think any S/T thread without pictures and prices should just be instantly deleted. I don't see how that would be a liability for NS at all. Don't have to intervene with any sales, just delete the threads that don't follow basic guidelines. B/S/T used to be so legit. I used to buy so much stuff on this site. Now its not even worth the effort sifting through the million threads of people selling their expensive ass night gowns and pokemon cartridges. And all the "self moderation" does is keep the shady threads bumped while the legit ones get buried under all the BS. Although I do agree that TheClap is right 99% of the time.
 
Why doesn't NS implement a mandatory sell/trade lay out for threads. Other forums have this (larger, more successful forums where people deal in thousands of dollars at a time). Have a sticky with the form in the OP, everyone copy and pastes it into a thread, and if they don't fill it out correctly/don't use it, their thread is deleted. This makes threads cleaner, easier/faster to navigate, and eliminates many typical questions people are forced to ask because dumb ass 13 year olds don't know how to make a thread.

And mac, I discussed the ULA thing with my lawyer father, and he said that an updated one would cover your asses, not like anyone is going to sue NS over a sweatshirt, that's retarded if you think it's going to happen.

Seriously, there are soooooo many ways to improve this site in very simple, non coding manners. I reference other forums because they do it right, ns only does it half right. We have the community, if you instruct them on how to make threads and punish them if they fail to comply, then they will learn and the site will slowly but surly improve, and then travis doesn't have to go around acting like the only s/t mod there is.

You created a forum, it is your duty to moderate it. If you aren't going to, then shut it down, because that is not how you run a website. That's like starting a UFC league and not having a reff.
 
Ok let me give this a shot. Explanations... explanations... oh right, it's not a rule anymore.

If you bothered to read the moderation updates (which, granted, it's a big thread so maybe people don't keep up on it) you'd have read that about a month ago we reversed this rule. Flipping is no longer a bannable offense, or any other kind of offense.

Now, that being said, I'm still not a fan of the practice so if you want to socially deter people from doing it (i.e. by calling them out on it in their sale threads), be my guest.
 
i totally agree with nearly everything theclap has to say. him and kangbang have some pretty useless arguments sometimes, but he shuts kids down, prevents others from getting scammed, and will make them put up pictures or make a correct thread the next time. having recently been scammed, i'm all for people bitching about this shit, because people do get scammed and it does fucking SUCK.
 
Because you seem very hung up on a few points I'll reply again.

What works in other places doesn't necessarily work here. We've been doing this a long time and we have a pretty good idea of what works and what doesn't. We've tried implementing requirements on how to make a BST thread, some people followed them and some didn't, so at this point we've left them to be general guidelines. We got a huge uproar when we were deleting threads that didn't follow these guidelines, and truth be told they didn't fit every instance anyways.

Again you seem stuck on the concept of "liability" to the site. We are not worried about people suing us over a sweatshirt, but what we do not want is every time a transaction doesn't go well, we get emails and phonecalls from members or their parents bitching us out and telling us to fix it. We do not have the time to deal with these issues, so we've made the blanket statement that we have no involvement with any transaction. Maybe we should use a better term that we do not "mediate" anything in the BST, since we do on occasion moderate the content of the forum. If somehow it did come down to it, we do have lawyers and all that other stuff, we'd just rather not even have to deal with any issues to start with.

In response to your analogy, you are a bit off. If you want to stick to the UFC, what you are proposing would be giving a set list of attacks and hold you are allowed to you, and if you don't the fight is ended automatically even before the first punch is thrown. The way we let the BST run is actually pretty close to the way the league really works. The 2 members battle it out using whatever format and techniques they want, and in the end it is their interactions that determine the outcome. The refs only step in in extreme circumstances to end the match.

There are hundreds of transactions that have come out of BST where both sides are happy, obviously the small percentage where something goes wrong are the ones that people hear about. Like I said, we have been doing this for a long time and have a pretty good idea the way things work. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean the entire system is flawed. We are not every other forum, we are Newschoolers.
 
I like the UFC analogy. But I think the better analogy is Thunderdome. Sell and Trade is like Thunderdome. Two men enter. One man leaves... with newly acquired swag. How you get from A to B is your business.

Seriously, use chainsaws if you want.
 
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