Are pivots really that special for freestyle?

AtticusOR

AtticusOR

New member
I recently bought the Mango 100 and I've been looking at bindings to put on it and I've been recommended the pivots but they're just so expensive and I can't really afford them right after I bought the Mango 100. Should I save up for pivot's or go with another? I would be using the ski for just freestyle and a bit of all mountain. I'm 5'10 and 145 pounds.
 
definity go with another. attacks are good and most markers are also good. pivots are great if you actually use the din range and are skilled enough to where the pivot function actually works but most of the people you see with pivots just have them because they look cool.
 
14610635:Sully_Lynn said:
definity go with another. attacks are good and most markers are also good. pivots are great if you actually use the din range and are skilled enough to where the pivot function actually works but most of the people you see with pivots just have them because they look cool.
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Sounds good, I'm definitely not good enough for the pivot function I've just keep hearing pivots were the way to go. Thank you!
 
topic:AtticusOR said:
I recently bought the Mango 100 and I've been looking at bindings to put on it and I've been recommended the pivots but they're just so expensive and I can't really afford them right after I bought the Mango 100. Should I save up for pivot's or go with another? I would be using the ski for just freestyle and a bit of all mountain. I'm 5'10 and 145 pounds.
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Pivots are recommended for a reason. They’re generally considered the best binding especially when you’re talking the full metal construction of the 15/18.

Here are pivot 15’s with a 95 brake for $250 shipped. For that price you’re not going to get a better binding.
https://sundanceskishop.com/en-us/p...MIu_7HutCGhgMVpKxaBR2J-wjQEAQYAyABEgJ6JPD_BwE
 
i have been using markers jesters for a long time, and have no complaint. but pivot is king for a reason, i've seen a lot of knees saved by those bindings.

Definitly avoid cheap markers, they just break too easily.
 
14610639:PartyBullshiit said:
Pivots are recommended for a reason. They’re generally considered the best binding especially when you’re talking the full metal construction of the 15/18.

Here are pivot 15’s with a 95 brake for $250 shipped. For that price you’re not going to get a better binding.
https://sundanceskishop.com/en-us/p...MIu_7HutCGhgMVpKxaBR2J-wjQEAQYAyABEgJ6JPD_BwE
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That being said if you are on a tight budget you cant go wrong with the strives. They will look a little goofy as you don't see that many on3ps with something other than markers or pivots.
 
spent all his money on the most expensive park ski on the market but won't spend on bindings that will last several years lol
 
14610648:BallClapper said:
That being said if you are on a tight budget you cant go wrong with the strives. They will look a little goofy as you don't see that many on3ps with something other than markers or pivots.
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What fucking planet do you live on?
 
Bindings are one of if not the most important piece

of gear that being said you don’t want to cheap out on them. At the end of the season you can find some pretty sweet deals on attacks,STH2 and pivots which can help save you some money.

**This post was edited on May 11th 2024 at 10:58:33pm
 
14610652:SkiEnthusiast420 said:
spent all his money on the most expensive park ski on the market but won't spend on bindings that will last several years lol
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I got it pretty cheap as I got it as a factory find + proform.
 
14610661:Vzx said:
Bindings are one of if not the most important piece

of gear that being said you don’t want to cheap out on them. At the end of the season you can find some pretty sweet deals on attacks,STH2 and pivots which can help save you some money.

**This post was edited on May 11th 2024 at 10:58:33pm
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Thanks, I really appreciate it.
 
There are a lot of really solid bindings out there for a lot cheaper. But anyone who says pivots are just for looks is delusional, the turntable heel is radically different from other bindings and it absolutely feels different to ski on. I’m not sure if I buy the claims about limiting knee injuries though. I have never, ever pre released on pivots, and for that reason I can run the din lower than on other bindings.
 
IMO Pivots and STH2s are equal in terms of quality and both will last you around 5 pairs of skis. I prefer STHs because I break the brakes less often and they're less than half the price to replace if I do.
 
14610698:hi_vis360 said:
There are a lot of really solid bindings out there for a lot cheaper. But anyone who says pivots are just for looks is delusional, the turntable heel is radically different from other bindings and it absolutely feels different to ski on. I’m not sure if I buy the claims about limiting knee injuries though. I have never, ever pre released on pivots, and for that reason I can run the din lower than on other bindings.
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I'm just concerned about knee injuries so I might look at some others but may still consider the pivots.
 
14610712:Slowbro said:
IMO Pivots and STH2s are equal in terms of quality and both will last you around 5 pairs of skis. I prefer STHs because I break the brakes less often and they're less than half the price to replace if I do.
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That seems like a good option, the only thing about STH and pivots are they are kind of heavy.
 
14610725:AtticusOR said:
That seems like a good option, the only thing about STH and pivots are they are kind of heavy.
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Weight on bindings really doesn’t matter unless you’re touring
 
The question really depends on how hard you ski. If you don’t hit big jumps and gnarly rails, at your weight and height you should be okay with a mid tier binding. If you are an aggressive rider who hits big shit I recommend spending the money and getting a nice pair so you don’t need to remount the skis when the bindings break. As far as what model, truth is its just personal preference but any metal binding is gonna be pretty durable.
 
the way the turntable rotates around the tib/fib on release is incredible. the 4 screws under the heel are amazing too, the uninterrupted ski flex resulting from it is great.
 
14610648:BallClapper said:
That being said if you are on a tight budget you cant go wrong with the strives. They will look a little goofy as you don't see that many on3ps with something other than markers or pivots.
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It's like a Subaru with a body that does not have a big spoiler or wifu on the side.
 
14610877:BallClapper said:
Sounds like user error. If your din's were set right that wouldn't happen.
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Yeah, not true. Not even Look themselves make the claim that Pivots mitigate ACL injuries. It's one of the biggest myths in all of the ski industry.
 
14610926:onenerdykid said:
Yeah, not true. Not even Look themselves make the claim that Pivots mitigate ACL injuries. It's one of the biggest myths in all of the ski industry.
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It's a nice one to believe. Mcl is gnarlier than acl.
 
14610780:scratchskier321 said:
the way the turntable rotates around the tib/fib on release is incredible. the 4 screws under the heel are amazing too, the uninterrupted ski flex resulting from it is great.
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I don't think the boot can release laterally at the heel due to the way it "cups" the heel with the bars pointed backward like a swing. It's the opposite of release on a touring binding where the boot connects forward of the rotating point on the bindings, which allows lateral release. The boot has to release at the toe to release at the heel for pivots, like every other binding so I'm not sure the turntable has much advantage for the actual release compared to other bindings.

**This post was edited on May 14th 2024 at 2:19:03pm

**This post was edited on May 14th 2024 at 2:21:24pm
 
14610986:officechair said:
I don't think the boot can release laterally at the heel due to the way it "cups" the heel with the bars pointed backward like a swing. It's the opposite of release on a touring binding where the boot connects forward of the rotating point on the bindings, which allows lateral release. The boot has to release at the toe to release at the heel for pivots, like every other binding so I'm not sure the turntable has much advantage for the actual release compared to other bindings.

**This post was edited on May 14th 2024 at 2:19:03pm

**This post was edited on May 14th 2024 at 2:21:24pm
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it releases on the rotation of the arc, tangent to the point in the arc it's rotated.
 
14611031:scratchskier321 said:
sure, but thats the difference. they dont rotate.
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But the heel piece of the binding is only going to rotate once the boot toe is out of the binding toe piece, so...
 
14611085:onenerdykid said:
But the heel piece of the binding is only going to rotate once the boot toe is out of the binding toe piece, so...
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this isn't true, toe lug can travel like 1cm w/o releasing and during that time the heel can swivel. put the boot into wintersteiger machine and watch the heel tube move while the force is being applied to the toe lug
 
The point of pivots is if you're spinning and one of your noses gets caught your leg does not turn and snap in half. that's why the heel piece spins 108 degrees. it's so your heel pops out.
 
14611182:scratchskier321 said:
this isn't true, toe lug can travel like 1cm w/o releasing and during that time the heel can swivel. put the boot into wintersteiger machine and watch the heel tube move while the force is being applied to the toe lug
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What I mean is, the heel is not going to rotate without the toe rotating too. And when you put any boot/binding into a Wintersteiger test machine, the heel of the boot is rotating out of the heel piece. It's part of how the norm works. The bottom line is that the Pivot range of bindings isn't doing anything to help prevent ACL injuries - Look explicitly say it in all of their material. You have to get a Knee Binding or a Tyrolia Protector for that.
 
14611278:onenerdykid said:
What I mean is, the heel is not going to rotate without the toe rotating too. And when you put any boot/binding into a Wintersteiger test machine, the heel of the boot is rotating out of the heel piece. It's part of how the norm works. The bottom line is that the Pivot range of bindings isn't doing anything to help prevent ACL injuries - Look explicitly say it in all of their material. You have to get a Knee Binding or a Tyrolia Protector for that.
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of course, but my statement still stands. the heel piece can rotate within elasticity of the toe while boot is still retained. I never mentioned anything about ACL.
 
I’m not gonna sit here and debate the function of the heel or injury mitigation but if you do buy pivots, get the metal 15/18’s. The durability is unmatched.
 
14611218:ZenyattaKick said:
How did you get a proform when you said you aren’t that good at skiing?
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Proform is for people who work in the industry, he might work in a shop or as park crew or as a lifty
 
There’s a reason most pro skiers are using pivots. And if they’re not, they’re using something else only because of sponsorship requirements.
 
14611617:SkiEnthusiast420 said:
There’s a reason most pro skiers are using pivots. And if they’re not, they’re using something else only because of sponsorship requirements.
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God forbid anyone likes anything else
 
i’ve rode attacks and pivots, would honestly recommend my attacks more (i am also not really good enough for pivot feature to fully function) but the attacks just have a locked in feel that the pivots don’t always have. also attacks are way easier to click in to in varied terrain imo
 
If your pivots don’t feel locked in, the forward pressure is probably too low.

look even instructs technicians not to use the white tab to adjust forward pressure but most still do out of laziness and it can result in a loose heel that has some movement

you can try it yourself by putting your boot in and apply lateral force (with your hands) to the heel. If the heel piece rotates even a bit around the turn table that means it’s too low.

14613855:bootspace said:
i’ve rode attacks and pivots, would honestly recommend my attacks more (i am also not really good enough for pivot feature to fully function) but the attacks just have a locked in feel that the pivots don’t always have. also attacks are way easier to click in to in varied terrain imo
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14613902:69Skier69 said:
If your pivots don’t feel locked in, the forward pressure is probably too low.

look even instructs technicians not to use the white tab to adjust forward pressure but most still do out of laziness and it can result in a loose heel that has some movement

you can try it yourself by putting your boot in and apply lateral force (with your hands) to the heel. If the heel piece rotates even a bit around the turn table that means it’s too low.
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comparing perfectly adjusted attack vs pivot, the attacks do feel more locked into the heel specifically.
 
14614408:scratchskier321 said:
comparing perfectly adjusted attack vs pivot, the attacks do feel more locked into the heel specifically.
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They really don’t. A properly adjusted attack with a poorly adjusted pivot would feel more locked in. Both properly adjusted bindings the pivots feel better all day. And yes this is coming from personal experience. Have attacks on my DW 112 and have pivots across various other skis. They’ve been skied back to back on multiple trips. Attacks are fine if that’s all you can afford but let’s not pretend they’re on the same level quality or feeling wise with pivots. They’re not even close.
 
14614410:PartyBullshiit said:
They really don’t. A properly adjusted attack with a poorly adjusted pivot would feel more locked in. Both properly adjusted bindings the pivots feel better all day. And yes this is coming from personal experience. Have attacks on my DW 112 and have pivots across various other skis. They’ve been skied back to back on multiple trips. Attacks are fine if that’s all you can afford but let’s not pretend they’re on the same level quality or feeling wise with pivots. They’re not even close.
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they actually do. go test it right now. the heel of a pivot has some vertical elasticity or play to it. Attacks don't really give upwards motion until a release.
 
14614410:PartyBullshiit said:
They really don’t. A properly adjusted attack with a poorly adjusted pivot would feel more locked in. Both properly adjusted bindings the pivots feel better all day. And yes this is coming from personal experience. Have attacks on my DW 112 and have pivots across various other skis. They’ve been skied back to back on multiple trips. Attacks are fine if that’s all you can afford but let’s not pretend they’re on the same level quality or feeling wise with pivots. They’re not even close.
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I can't be the only one who can't feel the difference between them.

Attacks are my choice if I don't have enough money for pivots or jesters and Why do I prefer jesters or pivots when I can't feel any huge differences? I have no idea. Jesters feel more solid with my hands but can't tell them appart when they are on my feet.
 
you're probably not at the ability level to notice a difference between the two, but the pivots are definitely better.

14614408:scratchskier321 said:
comparing perfectly adjusted attack vs pivot, the attacks do feel more locked into the heel specifically.
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I have softened up about marker bindings, used to hate them and said to never get another pair, but they are one of the least finniky bindings out, easy to mount, find them everywhere and pretty cheap compared to a pivot. I am also a sucker for the older versions, thay were much prettier and better built imo
 
I’ll add my uneducated two cents: Binding preference is a real thing. Personally, I love STH 2’s and the only reason I have any pivots is because there was a year or 2 when I had gripwalk soles and the STH wasn’t compatible yet. Now that I can buy STH MNC, I’m back with Solly exclusively.
 
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