Any Bitcoin nerds???
- Thread starter kingsskier
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PratedHazed
Member
i am a bitcoin nerd hope this currency will be stable
Dustin.
Active member
13872494:PratedHazed said:
My problem with crypto currency is that it's not currency. The only way to value it is to say "how much is that worth in dollars?" (or Euro or whatever). Saying "would you take 3 bitcoin for that" means absolutely nothing until the person looks up the current dollar value and decides whether or not they will require a guaranteed dollar value of said bitcoin or just risk it dropping right after selling an item for the crypto currency.
It's a really good idea, but I still haven't wrapped my mind around how it will actually separate and become a currency and not an idea. I will always bet on the ridiculousness of the average American and buy/dump stocks anticipating nonsense, but this one is literally gambling. If you gambled early I'd split your profits and let the rest ride, but if you do the math even assuming crypto currency will stabilize it is priced WAY too high right now. About 8 times too high.
Finally, as with many investments, this one could skyrocket or plummet tomorrow. But the risk associated with investing a large sum right now is insane. If you want to gamble on crypto, don't use more than 10%....5% if you aren't financially crushing it (aka zero debt and a stable job).....of your portfolio. I don't want to see kids lose their whole life savings. That said, I am going to purchase some small amounts of crypto currencies other than Bitcoin to learn more about the rest of the market. If you have some spare cash to mess with it's a very interesting time in the world economically. If we have a correction of the market or even a crash/recession, I see these as the first things to plummet (even though theoretically they should be independent).
Thoughts? Anyone have confidence in it as a currency and not a stock?
T.L.
Active member
13877277:reeski said:
Ripples a decent bet right now imo. I got in at pretty damn low and saw incredible growth last month.
Join us on discord. -https://discord.gg/ZTppJ7B
Dustin.
Active member
I wrote above about my perspective on Cryptocurrency with no experience. I think it was TLDR so here's my question (because I can't make sense of it still).
Can anyone tell me why they value these coins? What's the future in it, especially since they don't really seem to act like currencies and some of them are wildly inflated. Do you think it's a test of survival? I still can't find a way to justify any value in them and I'm having trouble making sense of them.
Can anyone tell me why they value these coins? What's the future in it, especially since they don't really seem to act like currencies and some of them are wildly inflated. Do you think it's a test of survival? I still can't find a way to justify any value in them and I'm having trouble making sense of them.
13878474:Dustin. said:
Ethereum is a prime example of why people love Crypto so much. Smart contracts are
"Ethereum is a decentralized platform that runs smart contracts: applications that run exactly as programmed without any possibility of downtime, censorship, fraud or third-party interference." - from the ethereum website (https://www.ethereum.org/)
Example of smart contracts, how to use them, and why they're rad
Brazil has been looking into using smart contracts for its next election.
A lot of hype tends to be around price but the best characteristic of crypto is the technology it's built on aka blockchain.
What is Blockchain?
DirtYStylE
Active member
13878474:Dustin. said:
To put it simply, its a decentralized banking system. No government interference or regulations.
Also, the "miners" are really just linking together to basically create a global server. Like how banks have a server. So when you make a transaction with your credit card, the information is sent to the banks server to be recorded. The miners solve an algorithm and whoever solves it first holds the current server ... insert lots of technical details ... when enough computers agree that the algorithm is solved correctly, it moves on to the next algorithm to process more transactions.
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
13878474:Dustin. said:
There's value because people think there is value, that's it. It's not rational
Originally, cryptocurrencies were set to be an alternative to fiat money without the traditional pitfalls of free banking systems, namely fraud and valuation issues thanks to supply/demand.
However, that has since failed and cryptocurrencies no longer act like currencies like you said.
Why is that? Well, let me explain.
To be a currency it is generally agreed upon that the something must have 3 important characteristics.
1. Store of value-Must have some sort of intrinsic value that makes it worth something.
2. Unit of Account-It must be easily used to complete a transaction
3. Medium of exchange-It is widely used and accepted.
BTC and other cryptos fails almost every single one of these classifications.
1. Store of value-Have you seen the exchange rate fluctuations? No currency acts like that short of a banking or international crisis.
2. Unit of account-For some cryptocurrencies, the transaction costs are extremely high/time-consuming. Therefore, people are not using them as a medium of exchange.
3. Medium of exchange-Look back at reason 2, and you will see why it isn't a medium of exchange. It isn't widely used because the costs are too high.
So, what you have then is an asset that has no stable value, is costly to use, and is not widely used. As a result of #1 and #2, people have turned to holding cryptos as a speculative asset.
The market for cryptos is not rational which makes it hard to understand why there is value behind them.
Sorry for the verbal spew, hopefully that makes some sense.
DirtYStylE
Active member
13878784:.MASSHOLE. said:
I agree with you. I think the biggest downfall for the long-term use of cryptos is the stability of value. Which is exactly why I am looking into it right now. I was going to wait a year before I started investing in stocks, but there is so much trading in cryptos right now that the instability creates value if you trade properly.
Although, if you look at the long term trend that it offers, you can invest at a low point and expect way more than a 1% return that your bank will give you. Short-term banking is not advised as you might make a withdrawal at a low point and receive less money then if you were to withdrawal at a market peak.
It is not widely used, yet. Also, the advancement in technology and the release of new altcoins has really changed everything. Ripple can process transactions in a matter of minutes. I do not see it being phased in to common use, like a credit or debit card until it can start holding a stable value. This stable value aspect kind of runs against how it is currently set-up. I could be wrong on this part because I can only say that the value of crypto increases from the money that is put in, and also decreases due to the miners.
milk_man
Active member
We should also remember that we are still in the early introduction phase of cryptos in the Grand scheme of things. As people become more familiar with them (many people still don't know what it is, and even more people don't understand blockchain technology *cough* Warren buffet) and it becomes more accepted that they actually do hold value and aren't just a speculative get rich quick scheme I believe that the price will level out. But until then, massive opportunity for gains.
Dustin.
Active member
13878992:milk_man said:
I think that's what I wasn't grasping. This isn't something that necessarily can and should be talked about as a stock with a market cap, volatility, etc. However, reaching that set value will require buy in (both cognitive and physical) from millions and maybe billions of people, which inherently makes it an investment opportunity. If you can bridge that gap, it could make sense as a decent place to put your money if you pick cryptos that make sense. I don't think BTC makes sense.
TripleXLHoodies
Member
Ethereum is the place to be. You go into bitcoin you just a bitch. Dont follow the trends be the trends you whore
Mr.SoloDolo
Active member
https://blog.chain.com/a-letter-to-jamie-dimon-de89d417cb80
Solid read for anyone who wants to understand what all this stuff really is.
Solid read for anyone who wants to understand what all this stuff really is.
T.L.
Active member
13879293:Puzzled said:
Pretty sure the big correction has already happened. There was a solid 2 weeks in december/early january where every single coin i own was in the green. Lots have since fallen and equalized pretty well. Tomorrow starts the alleged wallstreet bonus boom. It'll be interesting so see how the month finishes out.
kingsskier
Active member
BTC is no fairing well recently. I sold nearly all of mine a couple days after Christmas to buy a new toy. I may buy back in for a little bit now in hopes it goes back up to 16-18k.
.MASSHOLE.
Active member
13879176:reeski said:
I actually liked that piece.
There's a good summary at the bottom that I can't really argue with.
Cryptocurrencies (which I prefer to call crypto assets) are a new asset class that enable decentralized applications
Decentralized applications enable services we already have today, like payments, storage, or computing, but without a central operator of those services
This software model is useful to people who need censorship resistance which tend to be people that are either off the grid or who want to be off the grid
Most everyone else is better off using normal applications because they are 10x better on every other dimension, at least for now
Society’s embrace or rejection of new technology is hard to predict (think about encrypted messaging)
In the long-run, the value of a crypto asset will rise and fall in proportion to the use of the decentralized application it enables
In the short-run, there will be extreme volatility as FOMO competes with FUD, confusion competes with understanding, and greed competes with fear (on both the buyer side and the issuer side)
Most people buying into crypto assets have checked their judgement at the door
Many sellers of new crypto assets aren’t actually building decentralized applications but are instead shoe-horning an ICO into their service because of the market mania; that doesn’t mean decentralized applications are bad, it just means people are capitalizing on the confusion and are probably themselves confused
Don’t bet against crypto assets in the long-run: as we approach the 10 year anniversary of the Bitcoin paper it is clear that they aren’t going anywhere and that decentralized applications may very well find an important place alongside all the other forms of organization we have come to take for granted.
kingsskier
Active member
13881479:skierman said:
Lol so much hate. If people bought in when I first posted this thread (when I bought most of mine), they are still at 7x their money.
I cashed out nearly all of my coins (BTC, ETH, and alts) a couple days after Christmas when it rebounded. Bought myself something with 4 wheels on it and its not a Pinto like the money I started with.
DirtYStylE
Active member
13881479:skierman said:
It is actually "on sale" this week.
Honestly I'm waiting for ETH to drop a bit more and then I'm gonna grab more.
DirtYStylE
Active member
13882519:theabortionator said:
Today would be a good day to keep an eye on the price. This morning was the biggest drop since the 16th and its seeing a ton of trading at 950-970. I see a $210,000 buy order at 950. So if it smashed the floor there is a chance, as the sell orders are all over the place till 1k
Its also worth mentioning that the ceiling is twice the size as the floor right now
**This post was edited on Jan 22nd 2018 at 1:26:31pm
**This post was edited on Jan 22nd 2018 at 1:56:02pm
milk_man
Active member
Check out this ICO. You get 50 coins just for signing up. No payment info required or anything, just create an account with email and password. Don't have any info on the coin, but it's 50 for free sooooo
Link: https://ico.wcex.co/?ref=lmfiHWr
Link: https://ico.wcex.co/?ref=lmfiHWr
mtbakerpow
Active member
Not interested in investing in bitcoin now or ever
mtbakerpow
Active member
13884865:milk_man said:
No thanks,after watching all the foreign news daily and seeing how many other currencies get stolen and shut down it’s just too risky to throw money at. There’s other less risky ways to invest if you’re willing to research
Dustin.
Active member
13885061:milk_man said:
I can see you aren't much of an investor. Don't let your guard down and be proud because the prices are so inflated right now. Many before you have made the same mistake and been fucked super hard. It's important to be very humble when it comes to money, especially in such a risky sector. You don't see people making snide comments about West Texas oil futures or Enron anymore do you? It's not impossible, so be careful and smart with this stuff.
mtbakerpow
Active member
13885069:Dustin. said:
Exactly,I know enough people who have invested in bitcoin to know it’s not for me.knowing this currency can be hijacked from afar doesn’t exactly leave much long term confidence. I do however want to invest in things like lithium extraction and certain bio med companies.
Dustin.
Active member
13885085:mtbakerpow said:
Don't get me wrong, there may be an application of crypto/blockchain software that really takes off. I think something like Ethereum or Filecoin has a chance to lead to profits, really cool ideas. But the whole "Fuck you, I bought $800 and now I have $2300" attitude is insane and historically has lead to 99.4% failure against the market. Anything you buy outside of a diversified index fund needs to be a very good bet, otherwise history and math says you'll lose more often than not.
kingsskier
Active member
13885250:Dustin. said:
With cryptocurrencies, its all about what its intent is for that coin and is it being used for that intent and is the process of trading the coin done right. BTC is trying to be a generic currency and wont be a bubble-ish investment unless it gets recognized as one. Right now it is a rollercoaster, but you can see when upswings will happen.
Ripple, on the other hand, is intended for large money transactions or international money trading (seems like a money laundering scheme to me). It is also a privately owned fund that is being sold off similar to a stock, putting a valuation on the company that runs it. If this catches on it will be successful. It wont need as much to happen right as it is going for a niche market. It will not see the $20k/coin value ever, but it could go up even more than when I bought and sold it.
So, its not really a guessing game as youre somewhat implying. You just need to read about the coin and the news around it. Cryptos can be a very good bet if you pay attention to what is happening. If you are buying because you hope it will go up, you are an idiot whether its crypto, stocks, metals, etc. I made the OP to gather more knowledge before the potential chain split and the segwit stuff (just to see if NSers knew more than what I was seeing elsewhere). I knew it would change the value drastically and had enough knowledge to predict it going up. That can be done with any crypto if you can gather enough knowledge.
LiquorLanch
Active member
The biggest problem with crypto right now is that a lot of people are treating it as a speculative asset, and are dumping money into it. Yet, there is no tangible use in everyday society for crypto. I think with most coins there will be a bubble that will burst at some point rendering many destitute and penniless. I've got money invested in the shitshow that is binance and coinbase, and frankly I have zero expectations to make any money off of it. I have friends with serious cash tied up into the whole deal, and some have seen 20x returns, but they've also lost as much as they've made and what concerns me is the possibility of coins not bouncing back, at all.
mtbakerpow
Active member
13885250:Dustin. said:
Nothing against blockchian,and the mystery behind it. In fact I think that will reach more tech in the future once the greedy government can control it haha
Dustin.
Active member
13885337:kingsskier said:
I'm not inferring anything about how one would value any of these "coins" today, but pointing out that an all-knowing attitude in the investment world has been the downfall of many a rich man and many a poor man. Considering this is arguably the most speculative and fastest to grow market in history, I think discussing it matter of factly can be dangerous and arrogant. It's not unreasonable to raise a hand and encourage the group to take a deep breath. Investing is all about balancing risk, and with the wrong attitude you could easily become the next Enron Pension Retiree, 2008 Las Vegas house flipper, or "insert highly surprising and damaging downfall here" guy. I'd hate to see someone go all in because "it's a sure thing" and then lose all or most of it. It's never a sure thing and we shouldn't say it is. I understand you're points about watching a stock/investment you are familiar with and making moves, Apple and Netflix were my big ones 10/7 years ago where I kept buying on the dives. Those are few and far between though, and even then I didn't consider them without risk. But I was a kid with life guard money, didn't have much to lose at the time. Wish I had so I could retire!
That being said, investments like these make up the 10% of my portfolio labelled "Vegas". They are super fun and very aggressive, and I can afford to lose them on the premise that the upside could be huge. Even my huge wins in this sector haven't beat the steady grind of the larger part of my portfolio when you start throwing years and years of dividends and capital gains. As you said earlier in this post, when you factor in the time, fees, and 35% tax rate....you have to win very big a few times to make a consistent practice of it.
So ya man, I'm not trying to dump all over crypto. There is plenty of internet for that. Just trying to balance the scales in this very one sided conversation. We've spoken via PM's and I know you understand we are both aggressive and educated, that's a great thing and I hope the convo stays constructive all around.
Dustin.
Active member
13885512:mtbakerpow said:
I'm still not sure how the government could control any of this. Crypto is not new, it's just math. They can't outlaw math. Blockchain is open source now. But the applications you could make on something like Ethereum pose an interesting use of that and blockchain, perhaps even something developers could market. I'd love to close on a house via a blockchain based application the seller, realtor, and I could all use rather than pay a trust to hold that money in escrow. There's one idea, one that could monetize a service and create real value for something like the Ethereum paid out to those enabling the transactions. Anyone have any other ideas they could see working?
milk_man
Active member
13885069:Dustin. said:
You can see that im not much of an investor because I believe cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology have huge potential? Well then feel free to explain to me what I'm missing about blockchain. Bitcoin could be an overvalued bubble. Look at it's market cap--probably not sustainable. Other cryptos on the other hand have huge potential. Also, my major is in finance
But by all means stay away from the magical internet money
mtbakerpow
Active member
13882510:DirtYStylE said:It is actually "on sale" this week.
To live in a box and think the world is flat
Dustin.
Active member
13885535:milk_man said:
I don't care if you are reading books about finance right now, I'm talking about your attitude and simply made a point that caution and humility will serve you well in the future. I didn't mention market caps, current prices, or magical internet money. If you're in college right now, you've invested in one of the best bull markets in history. Entertain the idea that your perspective is narrow.