Another *fuck the housing market* thread

[skiindana]

Two issues...

1. Home ownership is the number 1 way to gain multi-generational wealth, not retirement accounts.

2. You're advocating for renting where you're tossing money into something with zero equity, it costs a lot fucking more than mortgage payments in most areas and the quality of life is terrible. Yeah man, sharing walls with loud-ass families, partying college kids and abusive couples! SWEET!

"We bought a house last year because the money was basically free and we had too much cash"

Tell me your privileged without telling me you're privileged.

You're both falling for logical traps that are common for people buying or owning a home.

1. The only reason most people "gain" most of their wealth through housing is because it is a forced savings vehicle. People are terrible with money but a mortgage makes them save inflation adjusted money every month. People think wow my house I bought in 1990 for 150k is now worth 300k! Amazing return... That same $150k at 5% return would be worth 650k. Of course you cannot borrow $150k at 3% interest but if you could, it wouldn't make much sense to buy a house (from a purely financial standpoint)

2. I'm advocating for taking advantage of youth and opportunity costs purely from a financial perspective. You're making arguments based on quality of life (not having roommates). I agree, but that doesn't change the fact that spending more on housing and less on investing is generally a financially bad move.

Yep, very privileged. I would be even more privileged if I took my own advice earlier.

 

[skiindana]

The 15% drop is more of what I'm concerned about tbh. Stuff isnt as crazy in Duluth but I'm assuming at some point this"bubble" will pop and don't want to get fucked over by standing next to it when it does

Definitely feel that... If you don't plan on selling and can stomach the drop, it really should not matter other than psychologically.

I would say if you're trying to buy now just to avoid missing out, I wouldn't worry. As long as your income keeps up with inflation you'll have plenty of opportunities to buy in the future.

 

[No.Quarter]

Housing market is still fucked though. The affordability of a 200k house hasn't really changed, but now houses that were 200k five years ago are being listed and sold for 600k. That's the fucked part

How the fuck did it take this long for this to get brought up. Is a $200k house even a thing? Because I'm pretty sure those only exist in literally the absolute least desireable places, and even in the middle of bumfuck nowhere its probably slim pickings. Anywhere within a half hour of a town with any sort of living amenities $200k might get you a 1/3 acre undeveloped lot that isn't even connected to electric, water, or sewer lines. In my parent's neighborhood some of their neighbors who bought homes for just over $200k however many years ago are now selling for $800k to $1mil. Sure it's not impossible to find a house for $200k, but who the fuck wants to drive half an hour to get to the nearest grocery store and most of your neighbors only hobbies are alcoholism and mowing the lawn.

 

[skiindana]

I gotta agree, I do not wanna rent, that would honestly be worse than living with my parents lmao, I’d rather hang on for like 2 years and save my shit so I can actually get into a position where buying a house is more realistic than get stuck in leases in shitty apartments

Just remember you literally can just walk away from a lease. Worst case scenario you lose your security deposit.

Buying a house comes with massive transaction costs and they're repeated when you sell. If you meet someone and want to move you're almost guaranteed to lose money in the first five years.

All other things equal I would much rather pay my mortgage than pay rent. But everything isn't equal and people tend to ignore things like maintenance, transaction costs, opportunity cost of money, etc when buying a house.

 

[r00kie]

Two years later and skiindiana is still the same person. Makes a somewhat decent point but once someone engages with him he digs his heals in and takes his argument to the extreme.

 

[Lonely]

Definitely feel that... If you don't plan on selling and can stomach the drop, it really should not matter other than psychologically.

I would say if you're trying to buy now just to avoid missing out, I wouldn't worry. As long as your income keeps up with inflation you'll have plenty of opportunities to buy in the future.

Fair enough. I'm just done with renting and incredibly frustrated with the state of things.

I work an important/skilled. Don't make the most I could make right now but I'm sticking it out here for at least another 6 months to a year. Good company to have 1-2 years at on the resume. Not really any debt. Took care of my student loans. Have a good degree from a good school. A decent chunk of savings for my age I think.

But holy shit I'm moving back with my parents, not because I can't afford to live on my own, but because If I want to stay fiscally responsible saving 20-25% of my income....I can't rent anymore.

Even in the middle of nowhere Marquette, MI which is one of the more remote parts of the country, a single bedroom runs you around 1200$ a month. Plus utilities, so more like 1400$ a month. If you're making 20$ an hour that's more than half your income. That's 14k a year, just for rent. In 2 years that's a downpayment for a house.

It's frustrating for a lot of people who feel like we did everything "right" like we were supposed to, just to find out that you can either ride the edge or have roommates until you're 30.

I don't feel like it's a big ask

 

[skiindana]

Two years later and skiindiana is still the same person. Makes a somewhat decent point but once someone engages with him he digs his heals in and takes his argument to the extreme.

I'm not digging or taking anything to the extreme... I literally gave math. Yes, most people overestimate their returns from housing. Yes, investing money at 20 is smarter than buying a house with 20k in transaction costs.

How am I supposed to be right when other people are wrong?!?!

 

[skiindana]

Fair enough. I'm just done with renting and incredibly frustrated with the state of things.

I work an important/skilled. Don't make the most I could make right now but I'm sticking it out here for at least another 6 months to a year. Good company to have 1-2 years at on the resume. Not really any debt. Took care of my student loans. Have a good degree from a good school. A decent chunk of savings for my age I think.

But holy shit I'm moving back with my parents, not because I can't afford to live on my own, but because If I want to stay fiscally responsible saving 20-25% of my income....I can't rent anymore.

Even in the middle of nowhere Marquette, MI which is one of the more remote parts of the country, a single bedroom runs you around 1200$ a month. Plus utilities, so more like 1400$ a month. If you're making 20$ an hour that's more than half your income. That's 14k a year, just for rent. In 2 years that's a downpayment for a house.

It's frustrating for a lot of people who feel like we did everything "right" like we were supposed to, just to find out that you can either ride the edge or have roommates until you're 30.

I don't feel like it's a big ask

I feel you but don't put too much pressure on yourself. If you're saving 20% of your income and investing you're already better than 90% of people. If you do that for 10 years you'll be richer than most people in the country - even people way older than you. It's also extremely unlikely that housing prices will continue to grow faster than your income. You're young and it seriously will work out, just ignore all the dormers who act like everything is against you.

Also, what I was writing was also very much financial only advice. Living without your parents might also have some lifestyle negatives that outweighs retiring at 63 instead of 65. The most important think in life is obviously to enjoy life.

 

[SWRTOFFICIAL]

Nah ain't trynna be a dick. Old man is trying to argue a point I never made. I can try to be a dick tho if you want

 

[Abomber22]

Old man is saying it's tough to do anything on low wages.

Musta tagged biffle by mistake.

Nah ain't trynna be a dick. Old man is trying to argue a point I never made. I can try to be a dick tho if you want

 

[Non_State_Actor]

Fair enough. I'm just done with renting and incredibly frustrated with the state of things.

I work an important/skilled. Don't make the most I could make right now but I'm sticking it out here for at least another 6 months to a year. Good company to have 1-2 years at on the resume. Not really any debt. Took care of my student loans. Have a good degree from a good school. A decent chunk of savings for my age I think.

But holy shit I'm moving back with my parents, not because I can't afford to live on my own, but because If I want to stay fiscally responsible saving 20-25% of my income....I can't rent anymore.

Even in the middle of nowhere Marquette, MI which is one of the more remote parts of the country, a single bedroom runs you around 1200$ a month. Plus utilities, so more like 1400$ a month. If you're making 20$ an hour that's more than half your income. That's 14k a year, just for rent. In 2 years that's a downpayment for a house.

It's frustrating for a lot of people who feel like we did everything "right" like we were supposed to, just to find out that you can either ride the edge or have roommates until you're 30.

I don't feel like it's a big ask

How can people charge $1200/mo for rent in a place you can buy a house for $250K? This makes no sense. I should buy an investment property there.

 

[yungona]

Rich parents moment

Nah I sell drugs

 

[SWRTOFFICIAL]

Nah I sell drugs

Tight

 

[NickSkisGood]

Denver metro housing market just set new record high median home price 648,000! Shit is truly insane.

I've been a Colorado realtor for 4+ years it's a trip.

Best advice is to get in the game with a condo so it can go up in price and build your equity. Then my boss advises you play a shell game of trading up to a more expensive mortgage, but that's not for me honestly since mortgages make you pay like 3x the total price of the house in interest over the lifetime of the loan (it's crazy). Also most first time home buyers here need 5% down plus a bunch of spare cash from mom and dad to even have a shot at getting the condo they want.

I agree that buying land, building a house and hiring the Omish to help is the move. Unfortunately the man and the state/local government building codes don't make it easy to just build a cabin for yourself anymore, even though it seems like building your own shelter should be a basic human right especially if you own the land. The man wants everyone locked in a mortgage though because all the interest people pay on home mortgages becomes the stocks, bonds and securities that wall street fat cats trade around.

Thanks for making this thread and good luck with your move!

 

[TRVP_ANGEL]

View attachment 1038853

where

300 ??

 

[skiindana]

Denver metro housing market just set new record high median home price 648,000! Shit is truly insane.

I've been a Colorado realtor for 4+ years it's a trip.

Best advice is to get in the game with a condo so it can go up in price and build your equity. Then my boss advises you play a shell game of trading up to a more expensive mortgage, but that's not for me honestly since mortgages make you pay like 3x the total price of the house in interest over the lifetime of the loan (it's crazy). Also most first time home buyers here need 5% down plus a bunch of spare cash from mom and dad to even have a shot at getting the condo they want.

I agree that buying land, building a house and hiring the Omish to help is the move. Unfortunately the man and the state/local government building codes don't make it easy to just build a cabin for yourself anymore, even though it seems like building your own shelter should be a basic human right especially if you own the land. The man wants everyone locked in a mortgage though because all the interest people pay on home mortgages becomes the stocks, bonds and securities that wall street fat cats trade around.

Thanks for making this thread and good luck with your move!

"Mortgages become stocks and bonds and securities..."

lol definitely keep being a realtor because getting a real job might be tough. Also, maybe don't give people financial advice...

 

[NickSkisGood]

"Mortgages become stocks and bonds and securities..."

lol definitely keep being a realtor because getting a real job might be tough. Also, maybe don't give people financial advice...

The hardest part of being a realtor is that most people like you assume we're dumb overpaid key turners but I grind my ass off man and have been for years and I do good work. Also I am not a financial advisor. Also what I said is true learn some things

 

[ASSholebomber22]

The hardest part of being a realtor is that most people like you assume we're dumb overpaid key turners but I grind my ass off man and have been for years and I do good work. Also I am not a financial advisor. Also what I said is true learn some things

The man made an example of buying a house in 1990 for 150k and selling it for 300k, give him some slack he has no idea lmao

 

[skierman]

"Mortgages become stocks and bonds and securities..."

lol definitely keep being a realtor because getting a real job might be tough. Also, maybe don't give people financial advice...

LOL you don't know the US mortgage market is worth over $15 trillion. You're a fucking clown. Keep spending that trust fund money, its really teaching you a lot.

 

[skiindana]

The hardest part of being a realtor is that most people like you assume we're dumb overpaid key turners but I grind my ass off man and have been for years and I do good work. Also I am not a financial advisor. Also what I said is true learn some things

Working hard doesn’t excuse financial illiteracy. You’re not a rancher

 

[skiindana]

LOL you don't know the US mortgage market is worth over $15 trillion. You're a fucking clown. Keep spending that trust fund money, its really teaching you a lot.

? you wrote about mortgages ‘becoming’ stocks. I said nothing about the size of the market

 

[skierman]

? you wrote about mortgages ‘becoming’ stocks. I said nothing about the size of the market

"HUURRR DURR MORTGAGES AND STOCKS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER"

*2008 financial crisis*

"THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MORTGAGES AND WALL STREET DUUUUURRRRRRRRR!!!"

 

[skiindana]

"HUURRR DURR MORTGAGES AND STOCKS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER"

*2008 financial crisis*

"THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MORTGAGES AND WALL STREET DUUUUURRRRRRRRR!!!"

100% not what I'm saying. Your own issues with housing prices do not make the relator make sense.

 

[skiindana]

The man made an example of buying a house in 1990 for 150k and selling it for 300k, give him some slack he has no idea lmao

We'll it makes sense since that is just slightly higher than CPI over that same period... That wasn't really the point though. The point is housing when compared to actually investing your money underperforms.

In my example I also understated how much the S&P rose over that time. In 1990 the index was at around 350. It is now 4,500. That would be like buying a house for $150k in 1990 and selling for 2 million... maybe possible if you bought a crack house in SF in 1990 I guess?

 

[skiindana]

The hardest part of being a realtor is that most people like you assume we're dumb overpaid key turners but I grind my ass off man and have been for years and I do good work. Also I am not a financial advisor. Also what I said is true learn some things

Also dude, you're not a victim. You work in a terrible industry that exists only because of MLS - which should be illegal. No relator works 'hard' enough to 'deserve' 6% of my house value for doing some staging and posting pictures online. You're trying to make yourself a victim because you post pictures online for a living?

People can post their own pictures online, except if they do they get a much lower price for their house. Realtors think it's because they have value, but really it's because of MLS which across the entire industry acts like a housing sale cartel. MLS has influence in the contracts that are used, which postings show on Zillow, which postings buyers agents show their clients (because non-MLS contracts have lower fees)...

MLS eliminates price discovery and an open market. Cartel scum.

 

[SFBv420.0]

i think your missing a good chunk of homeowning as an investment

in the ability to sweat equity and fix it up yourself if you posess or want to learn those life skills

we wouldnt have been in the position to purchase a $270,000 in 08 thats theoretically worth 800,000 today unless i had fixed up the 1st house to the point of being able to sell it in a bust market to get what we needed to by this one

 

[skierman]

i think your missing a good chunk of homeowning as an investment

in the ability to sweat equity and fix it up yourself if you posess or want to learn those life skills

we wouldnt have been in the position to purchase a $270,000 in 08 thats theoretically worth 800,000 today unless i had fixed up the 1st house to the point of being able to sell it in a bust market to get what we needed to by this one

You're appealing to some kid who claims he purchased a house on a whim. He doesn't know the meaning of sweat equity.

 

[skiindana]

i think your missing a good chunk of homeowning as an investment

in the ability to sweat equity and fix it up yourself if you posess or want to learn those life skills

we wouldnt have been in the position to purchase a $270,000 in 08 thats theoretically worth 800,000 today unless i had fixed up the 1st house to the point of being able to sell it in a bust market to get what we needed to by this one

Yeah this would be more like real investing, since you have to actually put in time, effort, and capital. There are definitely returns for doing this in the right place.

 

[SWRTOFFICIAL]

300 ??

lmao yea that was a mistype, I still dont know shit about any financial shit tho

 

[Dani-B]

Late 20s, I actually don't mind renting. Allows me to keep my options open on where I want to live and work in the future since I'm not tied down by a relationship or maintaining a property. Right now I'm debt-free (school and car paid) and focused on maxing out my TFSA first, while investing monthly in ETFs within that for tax-sheltered gains. After that, it'll be increasing contributions to RRSP (Canadian).

There is no fucking rush to buy a house just because you can. Skiindana makes good points about investing as early as possible.

**This post was edited on Apr 6th 2022 at 11:45:33am

 

[SWRTOFFICIAL]

at this point I'm considering just renting a place until my partner figure out what we are gonna do

they might not live in the place with me quite yet but I just feel like I need to get out of my parent's house

 

[Toasty.]

My wife and I bought our house in 2018 for 340, and it’s now worth 510k.. I would never pay that much for my house. But living in Washington and being close to seattle kind of, it’s the way it is, and I feel bad for young families that are trying to start there life together because they’ll be house poor.

 

[TOAST.]

at this point I'm considering just renting a place until my partner figure out what we are gonna do

they might not live in the place with me quite yet but I just feel like I need to get out of my parent's house

My advice as somebody who lived at home through college with a now wife that also lived at home through college.

Find a decent job and put in as many hours as you can, if possible get something that you can study while you work. The more time you spend between school and working the less time you will have to be annoyed at your parents/sister.

Take a good % of each paycheck and put it into an account and don't touch it until you are ready to buy, not even as a rainy day fund, have that separate. Pretend that account doesn't exist so you aren't tempted to spend money on your normal account because you know you have a large backup chunk.

Don't move out until after you graduate at the EARLIEST. The longer you can live without high bills the better, even if your parents start asking for rent money. One year of full time job you can save up a good amount of money on top of what you saved through college. Living with parents can be extremely frustrating but I am glad I did it as long as I did because it saved me a shit ton of money. I may not have had as much fun during my college years as some of my friends, but not having to stress about money now is really nice.

Get a teaching job before you get your masters. Find a job that will pay for your masters, a lot of school districts will do this (at least around here). Start taking masters classes at night asap. You will be very busy with lesson planning on top of night classes for the first year or two, but then it will calm down some. This what my wife did and it was not fun for her but she is happy she got it over with and didn't have to pay for any of her masters credits.

Don't buy a home that you know you won't live in for more than 5 years. At least when I was looking at houses that was about the break even point between renting and buying. This may be different with the current market and where you live though.

 

[GayWolf420]

"I want the housing market to crash

Didn't we just have mass evictions and an already cut throat rental market? That just fucks over everyone and importantly those who don't have any other choice besides renting. I don't want my landlord to shortsell her house and force me and my dog onto the streets or to move back across the country. Fuck that and fuck you for wanting a crash

 

[theabortionator]

Damn, don't want to be that guy but you're complaining that much about not being able to buy a house while both of you are in school?

I guess it's sweet at least that you can both afford school as it comes and the worst problem is a potential 200k house.

Sounds like a lot but if you see the housing market a lot of places that's pretty damn cheap.

Idk. I'd probably buy a house tomorrow if I could get something for 200k anywhere near any of the places I've lived the last 8 years.

 

[SWRTOFFICIAL]

Damn, don't want to be that guy but you're complaining that much about not being able to buy a house while both of you are in school?

I guess it's sweet at least that you can both afford school as it comes and the worst problem is a potential 200k house.

Sounds like a lot but if you see the housing market a lot of places that's pretty damn cheap.

Idk. I'd probably buy a house tomorrow if I could get something for 200k anywhere near any of the places I've lived the last 8 years.

probably lmao, kinda realized as this thread went on. and yeaaa we gonna wait, cuz its not like either of us can afford it atm

 

[theabortionator]

probably lmao, kinda realized as this thread went on. and yeaaa we gonna wait, cuz its not like either of us can afford it atm

All good dawg.

Buddy got in just before it got stupid in tahoe. Place needed a bunch of work so i did a bunch of drywall and shit but it's worth stupidly more jist on the rona housing situation in tahoe. If you fin something you want and can afford send it. Fuck your parents who bought a house while paying off school working at the deli in towns advice. They are kooks

 

[SWRTOFFICIAL]

Denver metro housing market just set new record high median home price 648,000! Shit is truly insane.

I've been a Colorado realtor for 4+ years it's a trip.

Best advice is to get in the game with a condo so it can go up in price and build your equity. Then my boss advises you play a shell game of trading up to a more expensive mortgage, but that's not for me honestly since mortgages make you pay like 3x the total price of the house in interest over the lifetime of the loan (it's crazy). Also most first time home buyers here need 5% down plus a bunch of spare cash from mom and dad to even have a shot at getting the condo they want.

I agree that buying land, building a house and hiring the Omish to help is the move. Unfortunately the man and the state/local government building codes don't make it easy to just build a cabin for yourself anymore, even though it seems like building your own shelter should be a basic human right especially if you own the land. The man wants everyone locked in a mortgage though because all the interest people pay on home mortgages becomes the stocks, bonds and securities that wall street fat cats trade around.

Thanks for making this thread and good luck with your move!

super wild, my aunt lives in Baker district and is moving to Crested Butte soon, I just looked up the zestimate as its currently not on market but its at almost 700k

thats a good move. honestly I am probably gonna end up toughing it out with my parents for a little longer so I can afford to do my summer travels!

And yea building code is tough. Partner's sister and her fam are building a house now and they have had to jump thru so many hoops to be able to start building, especially since its an "eco" design and they want it to be kinda self sufficient

bring back the homestead lmao

 

[SWRTOFFICIAL]

All good dawg.

Buddy got in just before it got stupid in tahoe. Place needed a bunch of work so i did a bunch of drywall and shit but it's worth stupidly more jist on the rona housing situation in tahoe. If you fin something you want and can afford send it. Fuck your parents who bought a house while paying off school working at the deli in towns advice. They are kooks

lmao for real, if I could go back in time and buy a house for like 35k that'd be a dream. it rly just aint feasible at this time for me and my partner. housing market and prices aside. especially considering if I want to move in like 5 or so years or not when I have my degree

 

[skiindana]

Damn, don't want to be that guy but you're complaining that much about not being able to buy a house while both of you are in school?

I guess it's sweet at least that you can both afford school as it comes and the worst problem is a potential 200k house.

Sounds like a lot but if you see the housing market a lot of places that's pretty damn cheap.

Idk. I'd probably buy a house tomorrow if I could get something for 200k anywhere near any of the places I've lived the last 8 years.

You work at Crystal right? I feel like Enumclaw is really undervalued. Absolutely beautiful place with relatively easy access to the city.

 

[STEEZUS_CHRI5T]

You gotta put more than 5% down man. Also wtf are you doing not saving up mad cash living with no housing, no home/renter insurance, no utilities, nothing but a car payment? If you're really serious, look at your expenses and cut out everything nonessential, and cut out all that extra bullshit you spend on every day.

Don't buy a house while you're a student. That's part of it. You gotta get a job first buddy. Next how about you cool the jets and save money at your parents house. Think it's bad now? Imagine foreclosure and having to live with them after you fuck that up.

Also the housing market is starting to slow down a bit. Predictions that by 2024 it should be back to normal price increases of ~5%. We could see an inversion but that's a total guess. Some places are actually seeing a decline in prices but they're very few and far between and they're rich folk towns anyway.

You could always move to a cheaper town or the ghetto. Housing isn't this pricey everywhere.

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