America's Drug Policies

Bodhisattva_

Active member
I think this monologue is powerful enough to deserve a thread of it's own.

It really bothers me to hear people discuss addicts like they are trash and that whatever happens to them is their own fault and nobody should help them. I agree that drugs are dangerous and a very slippery slope... but we need to realize that drugs are out there, and will always be out there, and there will always be people who want to try them. Fighting this "War on Drugs" is a senseless waste of money and effort and should be abolished ASAP. We need to balance out the massive DEA budget with ONDCP budget and quit wasting billions on combating trafficking and selling when it is less than 10% effective according to the DEA themselves. We need to institute policies like Portugal's with clean needle exchanges, and clinics for addicts to get a small clean dose rather than getting black tar or crack off the streets and using a dirty needle and dying from it. We as a society need to focus more on addicts who desperately need help, and on educating the youth so they don't fall in to the trap of addiction so easily, rather than focusing on the drugs themselves and the people bringing them in. If the constant demand remains so high, the supply will find a way to get here. We need to realize that addicts are all normal people, and have the chance to live a normal life that benefits society, they just need a little more help.
 
Drugs addicts made the conscious choice of using their respective drug full well knowing the consequences of their actions. I agree that the drug war is a waste of money, but fuck using that money to give addicts more drugs and needles. There are so many ways that money could be better spent.

More education? Schools do nothing but pound that shit into your head from ages 5-18... what more do you want?
 
Totally disagree. Let the drug addicts die to eliminate them from the gene pool.

They fuck with drugs, drugs fuck with them. As Hugo said it is their conscious choice, so it is their fault. Don't do drugs kids.
 
12999725:.Hugo. said:
Drugs addicts made the conscious choice of using their respective drug full well knowing the consequences of their actions. I agree that the drug war is a waste of money, but fuck using that money to give addicts more drugs and needles. There are so many ways that money could be better spent.

More education? Schools do nothing but pound that shit into your head from ages 5-18... what more do you want?

They pound outdated scare tactics in to your head that kids forget as soon as they walk out the door of their 9th grade health class. There have been countless studies that show D.A.R.E. programs failed miserably, and having cops talk to kids about how drugs are bad does nothing but reinforce the problem that it is a law enforcement issue and not a health issue. If they had real, true, information about addiction and prevention then it might do us some good. Teaching kids that marijuana kills and is on the same level as cocaine and heroin is fucking ignorant and makes it so when kids smoke a bowl and realize it isn't so bad, they think well shit maybe they were bullshitting me about those other drugs they probably aren't so bad... They need to show people that drugs are bad for HEALTH reasons, and what exactly those HEALTH reasons are. Heroin effects your body in this way, and destroys you in these ways.. Not just drugzarebadlolz and you'll go to jail or overdose if u try them once. NO. that doesn't fucking work. Show them yeah, you try heroin once, this is what is likely to happen. You may not feel addicted but here is the science and true information behind it so they can understand the problem and why they should avoid it.
 
12999761:Thizzle. said:
They pound outdated scare tactics in to your head that kids forget as soon as they walk out the door of their 9th grade health class. There have been countless studies that show D.A.R.E. programs failed miserably, and having cops talk to kids about how drugs are bad does nothing but reinforce the problem that it is a law enforcement issue and not a health issue. If they had real, true, information about addiction and prevention then it might do us some good. Teaching kids that marijuana kills and is on the same level as cocaine and heroin is fucking ignorant and makes it so when kids smoke a bowl and realize it isn't so bad, they think well shit maybe they were bullshitting me about those other drugs they probably aren't so bad... They need to show people that drugs are bad for HEALTH reasons, and what exactly those HEALTH reasons are. Heroin effects your body in this way, and destroys you in these ways.. Not just drugzarebadlolz and you'll go to jail or overdose if u try them once. NO. that doesn't fucking work. Show them yeah, you try heroin once, this is what is likely to happen. You may not feel addicted but here is the science and true information behind it so they can understand the problem and why they should avoid it.

Idk what kind of schools you've gone to, but I never had DARE, and was never taught that marijuana kills. My highschool did show and explain the actual effects of the drugs. I agree that schools could do a better job, but it would take more time and resources as those are things most public schools do not have.I actually think the best prevention/education methods for kids is simply a good parental influence.

That being said, even if the education on drugs in schools is horrid, it still remains that anyone with anywhere near average intelligence knows that drugs like meth, cocaine and heroin have detrimental effects on your life and health.
 
The drug war should be ended immediately. All drugs should be legal. Unfortunately once marijuana get's legal I feel there won't be as much resistance against the drug war. Then again even that is still over a decade away.

Unfortunately like many issues, people can't comprehend something that they've known all their life being wrong. Critical thinking skills are at an all time low.

The drug war continues simply because "that's how it's always been".

I have yet to here a good argument FOR the drug war.

There are so many pointless laws that should be put on the chopping block. Even laws like dry counties or not being able to buy booze on sundays. For me the fact that something is a law, and has been for a long time, isn't a good enough reason for keeping it. Every law should have a legitimate purpose.

I don't even want to start into reasons against the drug war because it would be the worlds biggest scroll bomb.
 
12999725:.Hugo. said:
Drugs addicts made the conscious choice of using their respective drug full well knowing the consequences of their actions. I agree that the drug war is a waste of money, but fuck using that money to give addicts more drugs and needles. There are so many ways that money could be better spent.

More education? Schools do nothing but pound that shit into your head from ages 5-18... what more do you want?

Yeah! and people with HIV/AIDS made the conscious choice to have unprotected sex, so fuck them too! Fuck treatment!
 
Not only is the drug war failing, but it is morally and ethically reprehensible. If we had an honest government working for its constituents, the drug war would be over by now. The most obvious explanation for how policies that harm the people could persist is that rich donors and big companies are paying the government to enact these policies. In this instance, it's pharmaceutical companies and police unions padding the pockets of lawmakers for the continuation of drug prohibition. I think the best plan to end the drug war is to prohibit all monetary campaign contributions. We've proven it's way too difficult to catch politicians in the act of corruption with the current regulations. Time to crack down.
 
12999725:.Hugo. said:
Drugs addicts made the conscious choice of using their respective drug full well knowing the consequences of their actions. I agree that the drug war is a waste of money, but fuck using that money to give addicts more drugs and needles. There are so many ways that money could be better spent.

More education? Schools do nothing but pound that shit into your head from ages 5-18... what more do you want?

Many times kids are getting propaganda drilled into their heads NOT education.

Real education needs to be pushed versus d.a.r.e. style bullshit and sensationalism.
 
12999822:.Hugo. said:
Idk what kind of schools you've gone to, but I never had DARE, and was never taught that marijuana kills. My highschool did show and explain the actual effects of the drugs. I agree that schools could do a better job, but it would take more time and resources as those are things most public schools do not have.I actually think the best prevention/education methods for kids is simply a good parental influence.

That being said, even if the education on drugs in schools is horrid, it still remains that anyone with anywhere near average intelligence knows that drugs like meth, cocaine and heroin have detrimental effects on your life and health.

Well yeah I will grant that using those drugs even once is a mistake, but that is still beside the overall point. The point is that it's a mistake people will make again and again, and it's a preventable one. People know cigarettes kill and yet people get addicted again and again often as a youth who "doesn't care" or they have an "invincible" attitude and think they can do it once or twice and it won't happen to them. People who smoke cigarettes face long-term health issues that they can get treatment for, and drug users also face these long-term issues. But drug users who often started out the same way people start out with cigarettes now has a life-controlling addiction that brings them and others down, but hey it was a choice they made so fuck em right? Let them battle their whole lives often becoming victims of a legal system and labeled criminals and have their options severely limited for the rest of their lives because of a mistake they made under peer pressure when their buddy since 6th grade steals some Percocet from his Mom and he tries it out in high school. Or that kid 1st semester who blew a few too many lines at frat parties and just couldn't handle it...That makes sense. The path to addiction is a slippery slope and often started out on by ordinary people with ordinary lives. Idk if you have never been around drugs you wouldn't know, but it can be pretty casual and get ugly pretty quick. And then to see these people in the throes of addiction and label them as drug addicts and worthless and unworthy of assistance that seems pretty immoral to me.
 
12999725:.Hugo. said:
Drugs addicts made the conscious choice of using their respective drug full well knowing the consequences of their actions. I agree that the drug war is a waste of money, but fuck using that money to give addicts more drugs and needles. There are so many ways that money could be better spent.

More education? Schools do nothing but pound that shit into your head from ages 5-18... what more do you want?

The only education schools give you is "drugs r bad"

its not a real education
 
12999746:MLJ said:
Totally disagree. Let the drug addicts die to eliminate them from the gene pool.

They fuck with drugs, drugs fuck with them. As Hugo said it is their conscious choice, so it is their fault. Don't do drugs kids.

If i left the gene pool my absence would be mourned to a much greater extent than if you left the gene pool, because even though im an opiate addict, you are far inferior to me. Effectively worthless really...
 
12999944:Spss said:
If i left the gene pool my absence would be mourned to a much greater extent than if you left the gene pool, because even though im an opiate addict, you are far inferior to me. Effectively worthless really...

To bad your baby dick is too small to penetrate a woman
 
topic:Thizzle. said:
It really bothers me to hear people discuss addicts like they are trash and that whatever happens to them is their own fault and nobody should help them.

This. They need help and not many people are willing to do it. I think the real issue is that rehabilitation clinics and detox clinics are extremely fucking expensive. I feel like if there was some kind of way to lower the price then more people would be clean. But, a pretty good percentage of people who actually do go through rehab eventually do relapse and it's basically starting the cycle back over again. Drug addicts can be somewhat of a lost cause. If they're not willing to help themselves out or let you help them out, then there's no point in even bothering to give them treatment.
 
opiate and heroin addictions arent a problem, or even dangerous, if you pragmatically tackle the issue the way many european countries have with either heroin assisted treatment or morphine maintenance therapy.

The video does a good job showing how addictive heroin can be, but it exaggerates certain aspects. Mainly, if you have the will power to keep yourself at a constant dose and dont get greedy, than you can still, with opiates, live what i consider a richer life than you can without them.

I laugh at people who just smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol (although i do too) because its just funny to me that they would waste their health and youth on such inferior drugs. The amount of "good" feeling i get from opiates is so much higher than i could ever get from alcohol or cigarettes.

Do i feel like shit when it gets near 24 hrs since my last dose?

not really... The biggest high of my day comes at the end of my workday, when i realize that in a short while i will be having a level of fun that most people cant even comprehend, a level of fun that people dont even know is possible.

thats where i disagree with ops video. Heroin, and opiates in general, give you more than just a feeling of contentment. The very best opiates, dilaudid etc. will make you feel like your entire brain is lit up with activity, like any thought line you want to pursue can be done so, effortlessly.

My life is simply better with opiates as are the lives of addicts in england germany switzerland the netherlands austria bulgaria and slovenia who get a controlled, doctor supervised dose of heroin or morphine everyday.

How many addicts in those programs die every year? virtually 0. How many addicts in the us die every year?

10 to 20 thousand.

The main reason we dont have a similar program in the us is because we still have a puritanical streak. Addicts are the witches of today and must be burned at the stake.

Heroin Works Better Than Methadone, So Why Won't Politicians Allow It?

by Jesse SingalMar 12, 2012 3:31 pm EDT

Yet another study shows it's both cheaper and more effective to treat heroin addicts with heroin itself, instead of methadone. Jesse Singal on why politicians still won't accept it.

During the health-care debate in 2010, some politicians were fond of issuing dire warnings of government bureaucrats "coming between you and your doctor." But when it comes to treating heroin addiction, it's often the politicians themselves who are barring the door.

A study released today in the Canadian Medical Association Journal suggests that giving heroin to addicts who have been resistant to treatment, instead of the traditional methadone, may in the end be the most cost-effective way to mitigate the societal damage done by this form of addiction.

It's the latest in a string of clinical investigations pointing to heroin-assisted therapy—or HAT—as the best way to attack a scourge that costs the U.S. about $22 billion each year.

"What this study has shown is, for people who fail methadone, don't put them on methadone again," said Dr. Aslam Anis, director of the Centre for Health Evaluation and Outcome Sciences at Providence Health Care in Vancouver and an author of the study. "There's a better option: put them on heroin. You'll end up saving money and doing better."

Sounds great—the only problem is, in the current U.S. political environment, it will never happen.

HAT, also known as heroin maintenance, is based on the premise that while methadone treatment is effective by many standards, most methadone users end up back on heroin or other opiates eventually—either with or without methadone supplementing their habit.

Since the search for heroin is, in many ways, more harmful to society than the use of it, methadone may have important limitations as a means of mitigating the damage done by heroin addiction.

Monday's study is the second to come out of the first North American clinical trial of medically prescribed heroin, known as the North American Opiate Medication Initiative (NAOMI). For three years, NAOMI targeted long-term heroin users in Montreal and Vancouver (a city with a history of heroin issues) who had already sought treatment at least twice without success.

A new study shows it's both cheaper and more effective to treat heroin addicts with heroin itself, instead of methadone. (Frank Leonhardt / Landov)

The first NAOMI study, published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2009, confirmed the findings of several European studies that heroin maintenance is a safe and efficient way to deal with long-term heroin addiction.

In the new study, researchers found that heroin—despite being up to 10 times as expensive as methadone—is also more cost-effective, in part because users are more likely to stay in treatment on heroin than on methadone. How long users stay in treatment is key to mitigating societal damage, since it keeps them in contact with the medical system and lessens or even prevents other health and crime problems that stem from heroin dependency.

The NAOMI numbers are striking. A year after the start of the study, nearly 90 percent of those given heroin remained in treatment, while just over half in the methadone group did. And giving users injectable heroin reduced their rate of "illicit-drug use or other illegal activity" by 67 percent, while this number was under 50 percent for the methadone group.

But what the study shows perhaps even more starkly is how far behind the curve the United States is when it comes to addiction issues.

HAT is already old news in parts of Europe, where it is an established facet of addiction treatment. It has been implemented most notably in Switzerland and the Netherlands—both of which tend to take more open-minded approaches to addiction policy—and it exists in a limited capacity in the U.K. and Germany. (Portugal decriminalized all drugs in 2001—a policy that appears to be a success so far.)

Each country applies HAT a bit differently, but the general outline is the same: long-term users are administered heroin in a clinical setting, with safeguards to prevent the drug from leaking onto the black market.

"It's not controversial in either [Switzerland or the Netherlands]," said Peter Reuter, a policy analyst at the University of Maryland's School of Public Policy, "and in Switzerland it's been there for so long that people have forgotten that it was once controversial."

In the United States it's a different story altogether.

Our tendency to defer to politicians who court votes, rather than scientists who study addiction, manifests in a variety of ways, from our penchant for locking up drug offenders to our unending supply of sensationalized reporting on the subject.

Recall former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani proposing in 1999 to shut down the city's methadone clinics, or Sen. John McCain, leading up to his first run for president, calling methadone treatment "disgusting and immoral" and "an Orwellian drug swap."

While other countries move forward on cheaper and more effective ways to treat drug addicts, we remain mired in arguments over needle exchanges and methadone clinics—issues that are more or less settled in the public-health community. (And don't forget the ever-powerful NIMBY factor.)

Compared with other wealthy democracies, "what's striking is not how punitive we are, but how unwilling we have been to take an evidence-based perspective on matters pertaining to both harm reduction and to law enforcement measures to deter drug use," said Harold Pollack, a professor of social-service administration at the University of Chicago, in an email. "And that underlying mindset perpetuates our poor track record in HIV prevention, drug treatment, and other areas of drug policy."

In the hope of winning the economic argument, Anis and his colleagues have set up an online tool where anyone with basic demographic information about a city or state can estimate how much money implementing HAT would save.

"When people are in treatment and they're retained, they live normal lives and their criminal activity is reduced, justice systems spend less money keeping them incarcerated," Anis said. "So when you take all those costs into account, even though the drug cost is higher, [because of] the savings that accrue from the other parts of the economy, on net it's cheaper."

Still, even researchers sold on HAT's promise will themselves admit that the idea of giving heroin addicts heroin is hard for many people to swallow.

"You sort of have to get over some pretty large hurdles of face implausibility," Reuter said. "There's something strange about the notion that on the one hand you prohibit this drug, but ... if the user causes enough damage to society and to himself, well, we'll give it to you free."
 
12999822:.Hugo. said:
That being said, even if the education on drugs in schools is horrid, it still remains that anyone with anywhere near average intelligence knows that drugs like meth, cocaine and heroin have detrimental effects on your life and health.

 
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