All mountain free-ride ski recs for cottonwoods (ON3P, 4FRNT, Moment, Armada, K2, Atomic, +?)

[slimkumquat]

Whats up NS, I couldn't find any recent threads on comparing all mountain/daily driver skis focused on the cottonwoods/Alta type terrain without much park, so I thought I'd ask for some ski advice that can hopefully help others in the market out too.

Stats: 5 foot 11, 155 lbs, 23 years old, type 3+ skier.

Style: Generally pretty aggressive and like to drive my tips but am down to try out a more centered stance on a ski w reverse camber and/or mounted close to center. Most skiing revolves around natural hits and cliffs. Ski park 4-5x a year max but the only park ski I have right now is way too short so being able to take the ski to the park occasionally would be a bonus fs.

Goals: Generally go bigger off natural features and cliffs and increase my bag of tricks (3 and backy rn basically). A balanced and predictable ski on takeoff and in the air is definitely a priority. Selling my PBJs opened up that ~100 mm area, but I'm cool with a wider reverse camber ski too if yall recommend.

Main Attributes Im looking for.

- Playful, good air feel and balance (-2 to -5 from center, low swing weight, trickability)

- Enough tip/tail rocker or soft enough to get on tips for butters/maybe land switch in fresh

- Stiff enough tails to save backseat landings not wash out on jumps up to 50 and cliff drops up to 25 feet

- Shortish turn radius

- 95-108 mm underfoot

- Avoid overdamping while still having some degree of charge/not folding in chop (more important than butterability)

- on3p wrens felt kind of dead/overdamped for example

Ranking of skis I've ridden (still own in bold)

1. Moment Deathwish 112 (daily driver/pow) (181) - Good flex and flickable, ski mounted closer to center could be lit tho

2. Line Vision 108 (touring) (181) - Love the energy, flex, and 19 m turn radius/, but way too light

3. Moment PBJ (188) - fun with good pop, little sharper turn radius like 21m would be sick, just too long and a bit stiff

4. Head Caddy 84 (old rock/slope ski) (171) - good energy and pop, fun low turn radius, skis way too short w length/mount

5. ON3P Wrenegade 96 - too stiff for me + super early rocker made driving the tips/the ski feel weird for a while + made it ski shorter than I'd like. Good balance on takeoffs, in air, and landings. Think Jeffrey could be cool given its softer flex.

6. Vishnu Wide - only fully rockered ski I've had. Too soft other than for low speed park/jumps, butterability was lit though.

7. Line Sick Day 125 (never use) (189) - too heavy and wide for my height and weight, trying to sell

Skis Im looking at in no particular order other than brand:

Atomic Bent 100

4FRNT Switch

Moment Wildcat 101, Deathwish 104

K2 Reckoner 102

ON3P Jeffrey 96/98/102

Armada ARV 106 (probs older model)

Moment Meridian

4FRNT Devastator (probs older model)

I know the Meridian and Devastator are outliers, but I really only have the budget for one ski and not sure what to pair with my Deathwish 112s and reverse camber in a stiffer ski than my old vishnus sounds pretty dope. Thanks guys and let me know if I should add/drop skis from this list/any input is appreciated!

TLDR:

Basically want a semi-damp/as chargeable as possible daily driver that still allows for butters based on either its shape or flex profile. Ideally it would have decent pop, shorter/ish sidecut radius, and balanced air feel and flick/trickability. Good maneuverability/quick responsiveness would be huge plusses too. Not super picky about width but already have a Deathwish 112, and usually ski Alta.

 

[ASSholebomber22]

Sounds like maybe a candide 3.0 or whatever the new iteration is called now-a-days. Light swing weight and a lot of energy but still stiff enough to be supportive.

 

[Juviticus]

I'd check out Armada's ARW 106UL. Basically the ARV but with the same core as the JJ UL. W for womens but sizes to 188 so whatever. I'm half the skiier you are but I liked the demo I got. Also I know it seems wide but the Bent 110 I'd consider too. Little bit more backbone than the 100

 

[FaunaSkis]

A lot of the things you’re looking for were brought up in the Blister review of the Pioneer.

Consider it and drop me a DM if you’re interested.

 

[BradFiAusNzCoCa]

After reading OP’s description, I agree the pioneer with be a good option.

I ride the 184 pioneer in Colorado, op if you have any questions

A lot of the things you’re looking for were brought up in the Blister review of the Pioneer.

Consider it and drop me a DM if you’re interested.

 

[slimkumquat]

Thanks for the advice everyone - I've had lots of friends break faction skis a few years ago + some warranty issues but might reconsider if you guys think they've improved quality/service or have a rec a specific year I could maybe buy used. ARW and Fauna both sound pretty cool actually, but may be too similar to my Line Visions. The ARW 188 + rocker profile would honestly just be too long for me especially when it gets tight I think. If other have input with personal experience on any of these skis I'd like to hear it though.

After reading OP’s description, I agree the pioneer with be a good option.

I ride the 184 pioneer in Colorado, op if you have any questions

I read the blister review for it and thought the playfulness, lack of carbon "pingyness" that I kind of experience with my vision 108, and novel design with tons of camber sounded really cool and like something worth trying actually. I definitely like popping through soft chop and tend to call it a day for the sake of my knees pretty quick if the snow is grabby/dense/firm chop, but do ski packed firm conditions fairly often, although I definitely love a ski that doesn't grab/hook in soft stuff so that sounds nice. I will be using my DW if it snows >6 inches probably though.

Pretty much the main things that concern me with this ski is the light weight and reportedly poor edge hold in firmer conditions. I definitely like to ski fast regardless of the snow and find myself needing shut it down quickly in firm conditions fairly often.

I'm assuming it skis really well without hooking up in slushy conditions? How do you generally feel about the high taper on the tips and tail and the huge amount of camber/general flex profile and shape? What's your experience been with its performance in chop and how balanced in the air does it feel (particularly when spinning/flipping)? And how would you rank it overall with other skis you own/have ridden?

Obviously there isn't a do it all ski, but do you (or anyone else reading this) have any recs for skis that have a more consistent/slow changing flex pattern, slightly heavier weight, lower width, and less directional profile?

 

[Diego_M]

OP, why not the newer model ARV 106’s?

 

[BradFiAusNzCoCa]

Well personally, I am more of a dynamic skier when I ski. I like to slash and pop off things but I still pin it and blow through stuff. They are surprisingly strong through ice and chunder. Moreso than I’d expect but they can deflect a tad but I’m okay with that because the tradeoff is worth it for me. I am 5’8” 165lb and no joke - these are my favorite skis I’ve ever ridden. They are extremely predictable and light in the air. The profile is very interesting. My initial impression was skepticism but the rocker with softer tips mixed with strong underfoot means I can smear it very easily yet generate a lot of energy for popping and landing. I like the taper too. These things smear like crazy. Granted that makes the ski feel a little shorter and it is a super centered stance ski which can sometimes make you feel like you’re leaning back if you’re used to driving super hard with the front of your boot. I don’t notice issues with edge hold because of the camber and full sidewall but I would not classify them as carvers. Carving is possible but kind of feels like turning a boat at slow speed. They want to slash and surf 100%.

I have no issues with hooking with these skis. I noticed because one pair of skis I have tend to hook and are bamboo/carbon fiber. Basically polar opposite to these skis.

Do you have any demo days coming up? I’d try to get out for one of those and just check many skis off my list. I’d offer for you to try my Pioneers but I’m in co.

Thanks for the advice everyone - I've had lots of friends break faction skis a few years ago + some warranty issues but might reconsider if you guys think they've improved quality/service or have a rec a specific year I could maybe buy used. ARW and Fauna both sound pretty cool actually, but may be too similar to my Line Visions. The ARW 188 + rocker profile would honestly just be too long for me especially when it gets tight I think. If other have input with personal experience on any of these skis I'd like to hear it though.

I read the blister review for it and thought the playfulness, lack of carbon "pingyness" that I kind of experience with my vision 108, and novel design with tons of camber sounded really cool and like something worth trying actually. I definitely like popping through soft chop and tend to call it a day for the sake of my knees pretty quick if the snow is grabby/dense/firm chop, but do ski packed firm conditions fairly often, although I definitely love a ski that doesn't grab/hook in soft stuff so that sounds nice. I will be using my DW if it snows >6 inches probably though.

Pretty much the main things that concern me with this ski is the light weight and reportedly poor edge hold in firmer conditions. I definitely like to ski fast regardless of the snow and find myself needing shut it down quickly in firm conditions fairly often.

I'm assuming it skis really well without hooking up in slushy conditions? How do you generally feel about the high taper on the tips and tail and the huge amount of camber/general flex profile and shape? What's your experience been with its performance in chop and how balanced in the air does it feel (particularly when spinning/flipping)? And how would you rank it overall with other skis you own/have ridden?

Obviously there isn't a do it all ski, but do you (or anyone else reading this) have any recs for skis that have a more consistent/slow changing flex pattern, slightly heavier weight, lower width, and less directional profile?

 

[slimkumquat]

Sick thanks for the super detailed response! Unfortunately there’s not really any demo days until end of season in utah unless you demo from a shop and put the money u spent towards credit for the ski (assuming you even buy it), and most of my homies who worked in industry are now out and can’t hook me up so that’s why I’m trying to gather more experiential info and opinions.

Are u on the 174 or 184? Sounds like a sick ski overall and like u and me have similar style, but what’s the main thing you’d change about it if u had designed it? And what carbon/bamboo ski do you have that likes to hook? Sounds like an interesting combo of materials for sure haha but that’s like the #1 thing I try to avoid at this point since it seems like it’s been a factor in a majority of my injuries so I’d like to cross that off my list for the future

Well personally, I am more of a dynamic skier when I ski. I like to slash and pop off things but I still pin it and blow through stuff. They are surprisingly strong through ice and chunder. Moreso than I’d expect but they can deflect a tad but I’m okay with that because the tradeoff is worth it for me. I am 5’8” 165lb and no joke - these are my favorite skis I’ve ever ridden. They are extremely predictable and light in the air. The profile is very interesting. My initial impression was skepticism but the rocker with softer tips mixed with strong underfoot means I can smear it very easily yet generate a lot of energy for popping and landing. I like the taper too. These things smear like crazy. Granted that makes the ski feel a little shorter and it is a super centered stance ski which can sometimes make you feel like you’re leaning back if you’re used to driving super hard with the front of your boot. I don’t notice issues with edge hold because of the camber and full sidewall but I would not classify them as carvers. Carving is possible but kind of feels like turning a boat at slow speed. They want to slash and surf 100%.

I have no issues with hooking with these skis. I noticed because one pair of skis I have tend to hook and are bamboo/carbon fiber. Basically polar opposite to these skis.

Do you have any demo days coming up? I’d try to get out for one of those and just check many skis off my list. I’d offer for you to try my Pioneers but I’m in co.

 

[slimkumquat]

OP, why not the newer model ARV 106’s?

I’ve just heard from all my friends that are armada die hards that the previous version was a lot more playful, but maybe I should consider as I think they stiffened it up a bit right?

 

[BradFiAusNzCoCa]

For sure! Just happy to share my experiences. I ride the 184.

The other ski I was referencing was called slant diplomat. I have it in 180 (true length of 177). It’s no longer made as of a year or two ago but still a fun ski.

It’s profile is on the right



Fauna pioneer profile



Slant is second from left. Fauna is far right



If I could change one thing, maybe make it a better carver but I don’t miss that ability much since it slashes so well and pivots on a dime

Sick thanks for the super detailed response! Unfortunately there’s not really any demo days until end of season in utah unless you demo from a shop and put the money u spent towards credit for the ski (assuming you even buy it), and most of my homies who worked in industry are now out and can’t hook me up so that’s why I’m trying to gather more experiential info and opinions.

Are u on the 174 or 184? Sounds like a sick ski overall and like u and me have similar style, but what’s the main thing you’d change about it if u had designed it? And what carbon/bamboo ski do you have that likes to hook? Sounds like an interesting combo of materials for sure haha but that’s like the #1 thing I try to avoid at this point since it seems like it’s been a factor in a majority of my injuries so I’d like to cross that off my list for the future

**This post was edited on Dec 5th 2022 at 6:03:24pm

 

[slimkumquat]

Ok cool good info. Definitely added to and high on my list! Bamboo/carbon layup sounds pretty sick between damping and pop if they weight enough but bummer they’re hooky. Anyone know of any other brands that use those materials in the same ski that wouldn’t be like a straight up tour layup and is inbounds focused?

 

[AlwaysGrabBlunt]

Whats up NS, I couldn't find any recent threads on comparing all mountain/daily driver skis focused on the cottonwoods/Alta type terrain without much park, so I thought I'd ask for some ski advice that can hopefully help others in the market out too.

Stats: 5 foot 11, 155 lbs, 23 years old, type 3+ skier.

Style: Generally pretty aggressive and like to drive my tips but am down to try out a more centered stance on a ski w reverse camber and/or mounted close to center. Most skiing revolves around natural hits and cliffs. Ski park 4-5x a year max but the only park ski I have right now is way too short so being able to take the ski to the park occasionally would be a bonus fs.

Goals: Generally go bigger off natural features and cliffs and increase my bag of tricks (3 and backy rn basically). A balanced and predictable ski on takeoff and in the air is definitely a priority. Selling my PBJs opened up that ~100 mm area, but I'm cool with a wider reverse camber ski too if yall recommend.

Main Attributes Im looking for.

- Playful, good air feel and balance (-2 to -5 from center, low swing weight, trickability)

- Enough tip/tail rocker or soft enough to get on tips for butters/maybe land switch in fresh

- Stiff enough tails to save backseat landings not wash out on jumps up to 50 and cliff drops up to 25 feet

- Shortish turn radius

- 95-108 mm underfoot

- Avoid overdamping while still having some degree of charge/not folding in chop (more important than butterability)

- on3p wrens felt kind of dead/overdamped for example

Ranking of skis I've ridden (still own in bold)

1. Moment Deathwish 112 (daily driver/pow) (181) - Good flex and flickable, ski mounted closer to center could be lit tho

2. Line Vision 108 (touring) (181) - Love the energy, flex, and 19 m turn radius/, but way too light

3. Moment PBJ (188) - fun with good pop, little sharper turn radius like 21m would be sick, just too long and a bit stiff

4. Head Caddy 84 (old rock/slope ski) (171) - good energy and pop, fun low turn radius, skis way too short w length/mount

5. ON3P Wrenegade 96 - too stiff for me + super early rocker made driving the tips/the ski feel weird for a while + made it ski shorter than I'd like. Good balance on takeoffs, in air, and landings. Think Jeffrey could be cool given its softer flex.

6. Vishnu Wide - only fully rockered ski I've had. Too soft other than for low speed park/jumps, butterability was lit though.

7. Line Sick Day 125 (never use) (189) - too heavy and wide for my height and weight, trying to sell

Skis Im looking at in no particular order other than brand:

Atomic Bent 100

4FRNT Switch

Moment Wildcat 101, Deathwish 104

K2 Reckoner 102

ON3P Jeffrey 96/98/102

Armada ARV 106 (probs older model)

Moment Meridian

4FRNT Devastator (probs older model)

I know the Meridian and Devastator are outliers, but I really only have the budget for one ski and not sure what to pair with my Deathwish 112s and reverse camber in a stiffer ski than my old vishnus sounds pretty dope. Thanks guys and let me know if I should add/drop skis from this list/any input is appreciated!

TLDR:

Basically want a semi-damp/as chargeable as possible daily driver that still allows for butters based on either its shape or flex profile. Ideally it would have decent pop, shorter/ish sidecut radius, and balanced air feel and flick/trickability. Good maneuverability/quick responsiveness would be huge plusses too. Not super picky about width but already have a Deathwish 112, and usually ski Alta.

I heard the big horn 106 would make the whole mountain your playground.

 

[SWRTOFFICIAL]

vishnu wide plus maybe?

I'll have my pair ready in a week or so and i'll let u know how they feel