Ahmets big announcement...

14529532:fucintight said:
self taught actually, thank you very much. sorry i aint got that same savior/ego complex as yall, im just tryna make myself better through learning abolitionist and democratic confederalist theory so i can be a better ally. tried my best to make some points here but yall trolls just wanna attack trans ppl for existing.

yall see data backed science, saying that transwomen dont have significant advatages in sports, and automatically discount it because it doesnt fit it your world view. grow up, yall are seriously pathetic. why dont you worry about making your own life better rather than hating on oppressed people? yall realize youre furthering alt right rhetoric, right? furthering the culture war that republicans are trying to stoke so they can get trump or desantis in office? like this isnt even an actual problem lmfao, yall are just too stupid to see through the media talking points stoking anger

im done, this thread is so fuckign toxic
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go watch the lex fridman podcast or something u fucking dweeb lmao. u r incapable of thinking for yourself

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14529539:fucintight said:
aint that the crux of this issue? just refusing to acknowledge that just maybe youre wrong lmfaooo
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Like when you couldn't figure out how percents and decimals worked, but doubled down anyways?
 
not once in this thread did i ever disrespect trans people.

i literally was arguing with ahmet, saying he should go about his actions in a more respectful manor

u just cant handle that reality doesnt align with ur "self taught" ideology, so u resort to autistic screeching
 
This argument is just entirely rooted in transphobia. No one cares when cis people have advantages and become the best of the best. Michael phelp has a super long wingspan, messi took hormones because he was a short king. No one cares. The only reason you would get mad when a trans person does it is if you think that trans people are trying to like trick you or something. Its fucked
 
14529549:EggMann said:
The only reason you would get mad when a trans person does it is if you think that trans people are trying to like trick you or something. Its fucked
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this is valid, and i will agree with you that this does take place in todays world, i do genuinely believe trans peoples intention isnt to lie/cheat to win as well.

however, i think its important to give biological women a fair space to compete

imah send my trans friends this thread and see what she has to say on the matter of competition

will post text convo
 
14529383:ASSholebomber22 said:
You're braindead. This traswomen athletes in sports nonsense only exists in predominantly white, hyper successful nations. You're so caught up in america bad mode you completely neglect tht this shit would never fly in china, india, mexico, uae, nigeria, etc that have far more socially conservative values.

People like you who simp for males competing in female sports because they feel some sort of way is why everyone from the head of the CCP to the poorest villagers in sub Saharan africa mock us.

**This post was edited on Apr 14th 2023 at 12:16:46am
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This isn't true. Thailand has a trans woman boxer, Brazil has a trans woman volleyball player, China has a trans ballerina, and many of those countries you listed are far behind the US with regards to women's professional sports in the first place
 
14529549:EggMann said:
This argument is just entirely rooted in transphobia. No one cares when cis people have advantages and become the best of the best. Michael phelp has a super long wingspan, messi took hormones because he was a short king. No one cares. The only reason you would get mad when a trans person does it is if you think that trans people are trying to like trick you or something. Its fucked
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if anything, messi is at a disadvantage being 5'6" .he took hormones up until he turned 18 hoping he would get taller.

being 5'6 is hardly an advantage in professional soccer

as for phelps, wouldn't u agree that its best that someone with such a wingspan competes with others who are biologically able to offer a fair competition? meaning other men, not women
 
14529552:IsaacNW82 said:
This isn't true. Thailand has a trans woman boxer, Brazil has a trans woman volleyball player, China has a trans ballerina, and many of those countries you listed are far behind the US with regards to women's professional sports in the first place
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china definitely doesn't have a trans ballerina

mf's just banned feminine men appearing on television
 
14529558:supremeblientele said:
china definitely doesn't have a trans ballerina

mf's just banned feminine men appearing on television
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Jin Xing, she even has her own TV show in China called the Jin Xing show
 
14529553:supremeblientele said:
if anything, messi is at a disadvantage being 5'6" .he took hormones up until he turned 18 hoping he would get taller.

being 5'6 is hardly an advantage in professional soccer

as for phelps, wouldn't u agree that its best that someone with such a wingspan competes with others who are biologically able to offer a fair competition? meaning other men, not women
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Just trying to say that physical traits vary massively even in men.

But no hate. Im just glad we agree about the transphobia, that shit gets me mad seeing how much they have to go through. And it was pretty corny of me to just drop a link to a study without interacting with the conversation.
 
14529539:fucintight said:
correction, not self taught bc my family (moms side) is white as fuck and from the ne and im hella privileged. im lucky enough to have a loving accepting family that taught me that you dont have to be mean to other ppl bc you dont agree w / like something they said. this entire issue comes down to worldview and what you, as an individual person, view as right and proper in our society. yall see trans ppl existing and participating in sport as an attack.

aint that the crux of this issue? just refusing to acknowledge that just maybe youre wrong lmfaooo
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Capitalism and the 1%?? Abolition theory?? "My family (mom's side) is white as fuck"???

Honest question, are you a Marxist?
 
14529549:EggMann said:
This argument is just entirely rooted in transphobia. No one cares when cis people have advantages and become the best of the best. Michael phelp has a super long wingspan, messi took hormones because he was a short king. No one cares. The only reason you would get mad when a trans person does it is if you think that trans people are trying to like trick you or something. Its fucked
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I don't think you can say the entire argument is rooted in transphobia with the justification being that physical differences exist.

In many individual sports we do quite literally create classes based on physical attributes for the sake of fairness.

This even happens naturally in team sports and individual sports. You don't see very many short dudes in the NBA. You don't see very many 6'8" gymnasts.

A basketball player can't change the fact that they are tall and Michael Phelps can't change his wingspan...but when athletes gain an unfair advantage through external means seems to be where the concern lies. If we aren't okay with doping, or a fighter somehow lying about his weigh in, PED, etc then it seems like switching leagues to gain an unfair advantage should not be allowed either.

That being said, I'm completely okay with it if we have standards for it. Someone who has undergone treatment for a while and meets the appropriate metrics to ensure fairness should be allowed to compete in the league that they choose. Michelle Tyson, who transitioned 2 months ago? Probably not.

To finish out with some caveats here...it seems like the instances of trans individuals trying to take advantage of this are incredibly low and greatly overwheighted by individuals who probably do hate trans people. Still, it's important to have this discussion and protect women's spaces as well.

Finally, I always find it interesting in these convos that very rarely, if ever, are female to male transitioners in sports brought up. Not sure what the take away is there but if the difference is so incredibly small between men in women as some in here say, why don't see equivalent performance when the transition happens in the other direction?

At the end of the day, most trans people are decent human beings and just want to be left alone. Don't let the Twitter crazys form your opinion on a group of people for you.
 
14529584:Lonely said:
I don't think you can say the entire argument is rooted in transphobia with the justification being that physical differences exist.

In many individual sports we do quite literally create classes based on physical attributes for the sake of fairness.

This even happens naturally in team sports and individual sports. You don't see very many short dudes in the NBA. You don't see very many 6'8" gymnasts.

A basketball player can't change the fact that they are tall and Michael Phelps can't change his wingspan...but when athletes gain an unfair advantage through external means seems to be where the concern lies. If we aren't okay with doping, or a fighter somehow lying about his weigh in, PED, etc then it seems like switching leagues to gain an unfair advantage should not be allowed either.

That being said, I'm completely okay with it if we have standards for it. Someone who has undergone treatment for a while and meets the appropriate metrics to ensure fairness should be allowed to compete in the league that they choose. Michelle Tyson, who transitioned 2 months ago? Probably not.

To finish out with some caveats here...it seems like the instances of trans individuals trying to take advantage of this are incredibly low and greatly overwheighted by individuals who probably do hate trans people. Still, it's important to have this discussion and protect women's spaces as well.

Finally, I always find it interesting in these convos that very rarely, if ever, are female to male transitioners in sports brought up. Not sure what the take away is there but if the difference is so incredibly small between men in women as some in here say, why don't see equivalent performance when the transition happens in the other direction?

At the end of the day, most trans people are decent human beings and just want to be left alone. Don't let the Twitter crazys form your opinion on a group of people for you.
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well said. especially the last 2 sections

still gotta disagree with the idea that ther should be "standards" for biological men transitioning to trans females being able to compete in biological female sports leagues.

I think it personally just makes more sense to have it split male/female, and if society was willing, have trans only leagues. this may be a problem being that only like 0.001% of the population is trans, but in my opinion, that would be the most fair

women shouldnt have to worry about whether their competitor is "fully transitioned" imo.
 
14529584:Lonely said:
I don't think you can say the entire argument is rooted in transphobia with the justification being that physical differences exist.

In many individual sports we do quite literally create classes based on physical attributes for the sake of fairness.

This even happens naturally in team sports and individual sports. You don't see very many short dudes in the NBA. You don't see very many 6'8" gymnasts.

A basketball player can't change the fact that they are tall and Michael Phelps can't change his wingspan...but when athletes gain an unfair advantage through external means seems to be where the concern lies. If we aren't okay with doping, or a fighter somehow lying about his weigh in, PED, etc then it seems like switching leagues to gain an unfair advantage should not be allowed either.

That being said, I'm completely okay with it if we have standards for it. Someone who has undergone treatment for a while and meets the appropriate metrics to ensure fairness should be allowed to compete in the league that they choose. Michelle Tyson, who transitioned 2 months ago? Probably not.

To finish out with some caveats here...it seems like the instances of trans individuals trying to take advantage of this are incredibly low and greatly overwheighted by individuals who probably do hate trans people. Still, it's important to have this discussion and protect women's spaces as well.

Finally, I always find it interesting in these convos that very rarely, if ever, are female to male transitioners in sports brought up. Not sure what the take away is there but if the difference is so incredibly small between men in women as some in here say, why don't see equivalent performance when the transition happens in the other direction?

At the end of the day, most trans people are decent human beings and just want to be left alone. Don't let the Twitter crazys form your opinion on a group of people for you.
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I just cant imagine being a trans woman right now and loving a sport but having someone tell you you cannot play. Or you can only play in a league with other trans people. Thats awful, that is discrimination. My point is that sports are not fair, you called being trans an “external factor” but trans people cant help being trans any more than michael phelps can help having a big wingspan.

this is exactly what I was talking about in my post, it has origins in transphobia or not understanding being trans

and I really cant stress this enough, studys have shown their are no significant advantages to being trans. Obviously that is not the end all be all, but it is an important piece of information.

idk, I just think trans people have the same right to live their life as everybody else. Its a very difficult issue tho.
 
14529607:EggMann said:
I just cant imagine being a trans woman right now and loving a sport but having someone tell you you cannot play. Or you can only play in a league with other trans people. Thats awful, that is discrimination. My point is that sports are not fair, you called being trans an “external factor” but trans people cant help being trans any more than michael phelps can help having a big wingspan.

this is exactly what I was talking about in my post, it has origins in transphobia or not understanding being trans

and I really cant stress this enough, studys have shown their are no significant advantages to being trans. Obviously that is not the end all be all, but it is an important piece of information.

idk, I just think trans people have the same right to live their life as everybody else. Its a very difficult issue tho.
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Nobody is complaining about trans women competing with males.
 
14529607:EggMann said:
I just cant imagine being a trans woman right now and loving a sport but having someone tell you you cannot play. Or you can only play in a league with other trans people. Thats awful, that is discrimination. My point is that sports are not fair, you called being trans an “external factor” but trans people cant help being trans any more than michael phelps can help having a big wingspan.

this is exactly what I was talking about in my post, it has origins in transphobia or not understanding being trans

and I really cant stress this enough, studys have shown their are no significant advantages to being trans. Obviously that is not the end all be all, but it is an important piece of information.

idk, I just think trans people have the same right to live their life as everybody else. Its a very difficult issue tho.
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https://www.everythingathletes.com/everything-athletes-blog/how-to-keep-sports-fair-transgender

sports are fair. that is why they are successful, and so much fun to engage in. we have refs/rules/regulations for a reason

all body types have advantages and disadvantages. sport in its nature, is designed to be fair, and allow the better competitor to win
 
you mean when i accepted i was wrong and admitted it? because .018 is the decimal equivalent of 1.8%? sorry i havent been in school in over 5 years and made a negligible mistake lol. you cant even accept that youre wrong bud?. yall know youre arguing the same point youre making about being brainwashed, right? why do you care so much about other ppls bodies? shit weirrrrd

14529545:ASSholebomber22 said:
Like when you couldn't figure out how percents and decimals worked, but doubled down anyways?
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nah but a more material intersectional view of our society makes a lot of sense. i like to take everything w a grain of salt and make my own conclusions. youre just ignoring shit bc youre triggered bud, make a counter point or somethin, you're fumbling lol

14529581:binto said:
Capitalism and the 1%?? Abolition theory?? "My family (mom's side) is white as fuck"???

Honest question, are you a Marxist?
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not disagreeing bc i think you made some very valid points and i agree w the gist of what you said.

the point ive been trying to make is that the discussion surrounding trans women in womens sports is just kinda ridiculous. everyone doesnt need an opinion on it because it doesnt effect most people. it's just a one sided argument ragging on a disadvantaged group of ppl.

im sure there are a few outlier cases of what ppl in this thread have been talking about but that's not the majority whatsoever. youll find outliers in any group, not all republicans are nazis but the 3%'rs, Proud Boys, Oathkeepers, and NSM are legitimate authoritarians. as well as the growing christo-facist groups.

my point is that the people defending trans ppl not being allowed to compete bc they have 'different bodies' or whatever, are essentially just sharing conservative talking points. trump's campaign video for the 2024 election was almost 3 minutes of pure transphobia. talking about 'grooming' and 'unfair sports stuff', and how they need to make it illegal to be trans. it's happening already, there have been over 120 bills introduced as of the start of 2023 to legislate trans people's bodies and what they can do to them.

i dont think (besides like 2 or 3 ppl in this thread) anyone here is actually arguing some of those points. but the ones that keep shitposting anecdotal evidence are doing the work of the very close to facist rightwing. we gunna just completely ignore jan 6th? and then the same dude who incited it running for president?? theyre just spreading propaganda that makes ppl mad and causes division.

http://www.aclu.org/press-releases/over-120-bills-restricting-lgbtq-rights-introduced-nationwide-2023-so-far

14529584:Lonely said:
I don't think you can say the entire argument is rooted in transphobia with the justification being that physical differences exist.

In many individual sports we do quite literally create classes based on physical attributes for the sake of fairness.

This even happens naturally in team sports and individual sports. You don't see very many short dudes in the NBA. You don't see very many 6'8" gymnasts.

A basketball player can't change the fact that they are tall and Michael Phelps can't change his wingspan...but when athletes gain an unfair advantage through external means seems to be where the concern lies. If we aren't okay with doping, or a fighter somehow lying about his weigh in, PED, etc then it seems like switching leagues to gain an unfair advantage should not be allowed either.

That being said, I'm completely okay with it if we have standards for it. Someone who has undergone treatment for a while and meets the appropriate metrics to ensure fairness should be allowed to compete in the league that they choose. Michelle Tyson, who transitioned 2 months ago? Probably not.

To finish out with some caveats here...it seems like the instances of trans individuals trying to take advantage of this are incredibly low and greatly overwheighted by individuals who probably do hate trans people. Still, it's important to have this discussion and protect women's spaces as well.

Finally, I always find it interesting in these convos that very rarely, if ever, are female to male transitioners in sports brought up. Not sure what the take away is there but if the difference is so incredibly small between men in women as some in here say, why don't see equivalent performance when the transition happens in the other direction?

At the end of the day, most trans people are decent human beings and just want to be left alone. Don't let the Twitter crazys form your opinion on a group of people for you.
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dawg, youre making rly good valid points but these trolls aint gunna listen to reason, ive been trying lol. he's saying that trans ppl are .1% of the population. their worldview would be shattered if they actually processed the information

14529607:EggMann said:
I just cant imagine being a trans woman right now and loving a sport but having someone tell you you cannot play. Or you can only play in a league with other trans people. Thats awful, that is discrimination. My point is that sports are not fair, you called being trans an “external factor” but trans people cant help being trans any more than michael phelps can help having a big wingspan.

this is exactly what I was talking about in my post, it has origins in transphobia or not understanding being trans

and I really cant stress this enough, studys have shown their are no significant advantages to being trans. Obviously that is not the end all be all, but it is an important piece of information.

idk, I just think trans people have the same right to live their life as everybody else. Its a very difficult issue tho.
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do you have any works cited for that article or are you just using conjecture as your argument?

14529627:supremeblientele said:
https://www.everythingathletes.com/everything-athletes-blog/how-to-keep-sports-fair-transgender

sports are fair. that is why they are successful, and so much fun to engage in. we have refs/rules/regulations for a reason

all body types have advantages and disadvantages. sport in its nature, is designed to be fair, and allow the better competitor to win
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14529708:cool270out said:
I ask again: why do you guys care about this? Are you affected by this at all?
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love the women in my life alot. sports are/have always been a huge part of my/their lifes

im prolly the only mf in this thread that genuinely watches the WNBA and enjoys it, dont want that to get tainted

my partner was a d1 athlete, and this sort of shit gets her pressed.

imah use the same argument against u, when george floyd was choked out in the street, were u affected by that at all? no, but it would be pretty disgusting if that event didnt ruffle ur feathers a bit.
 
14529712:supremeblientele said:
love the women in my life alot. sports are/have always been a huge part of my/their lifes

im prolly the only mf in this thread that genuinely watches the WNBA and enjoys it, dont want that to get tainted

my partner was a d1 athlete, and this sort of shit gets her pressed.

imah use the same argument against u, when george floyd was choked out in the street, were u affected by that at all? no, but it would be pretty disgusting if that event didnt ruffle ur feathers a bit.
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Comparing trans issues in female sports to systemic racial police brutality is pretty dumb man. I also have sisters who played D1 sports. Pretty sure they can speak for themselves
 
14529715:cool270out said:
Comparing trans issues in female sports to systemic racial police brutality is pretty dumb man. I also have sisters who played D1 sports. Pretty sure they can speak for themselves
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yeah might have been a bit of a reach, but same idea at the end of the day.

the talking points ive been using in this thread are things my girlfriend has word for word said to me tho.
 
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