A product to help Ski Patrol - Project Critique

benlokhorst

benlokhorst

Member
Hey everyone, I had to create a product for my entrepreneurship class and was hoping you would be able to critique my idea.

The problem is that if your friend gets injured, usually they have to be left unattended so that you can find ski patrol. Or if you are by yourself in a remote area, it can be really hard to get assistance quickly (severe case being in a tree well for example).

In order to reduce ski patrol response times and make their lives a little easier, I decided to take a wristband and give it a dual purpose - a lift pass, and a transceiver of sorts. When you are in distress, you press a button on the side of it which emits a signal notifying ski patrol to come to your location. So, rather than leaving your friend by themselves, you can stay with them til help arrives. In the tree well scenario, hopefully they could respond quickly enough to help you out.

I would really appreciate any opinions you guys have, or input - whether it be fears (risks of switching to the product), wants (emotional drivers of purchasing), or needs (rational drivers of purchasing).

Thanks!
 
Its a cool idea but its similar to the recco system. You have the transmitter on your gear, but with the recco it only works if the resort has the system and if someone knows you're missing. As for this idea yes its a cool one, but how would they implement it? The entire resort would need a new RFID style ticket with circuitry to enable a distress signal. Now to further that point a handful of gapers falls off the groomer and get stuck in 6inches of powder. They all hit their button to signal ski patrol, meanwhile a guy just broke his leg sending a cliff and is alone and hits his button. Now you have 20 ski patrol calls with only 1 being crucial to get too. Now all the patrollers are trying to respond and ride while staring at a GPS screen to try and find your ping. It would be cumbersome. Everyone has a phone on them they can call for help for the most part. Ski patrollers should know the run like the back of their hands but they do miss cases. For example lady stuck in a creek bed getting soaked. I was working lifts saw her when I was riding up told patrol and they missed the creek thought it was another one and they bailed on the call. I came riding down and saw her in there so I had to do a rescue myself. So this would be a cool system to incorporate but the cost and stress caused from it would be monumental.
 
13624840:mantoast said:
Its a cool idea but its similar to the recco system. You have the transmitter on your gear, but with the recco it only works if the resort has the system and if someone knows you're missing. As for this idea yes its a cool one, but how would they implement it? The entire resort would need a new RFID style ticket with circuitry to enable a distress signal. Now to further that point a handful of gapers falls off the groomer and get stuck in 6inches of powder. They all hit their button to signal ski patrol, meanwhile a guy just broke his leg sending a cliff and is alone and hits his button. Now you have 20 ski patrol calls with only 1 being crucial to get too. Now all the patrollers are trying to respond and ride while staring at a GPS screen to try and find your ping. It would be cumbersome. Everyone has a phone on them they can call for help for the most part. Ski patrollers should know the run like the back of their hands but they do miss cases. For example lady stuck in a creek bed getting soaked. I was working lifts saw her when I was riding up told patrol and they missed the creek thought it was another one and they bailed on the call. I came riding down and saw her in there so I had to do a rescue myself. So this would be a cool system to incorporate but the cost and stress caused from it would be monumental.
Click to expand...

Recco isn't a transmitter. It's a reflector

Made to be used with a specialized transceiver. I feel the better way to do this is to create a Bluetooth link to the persons phone. When they activate the bracelet it sends a geotagged message to local emergency dispatch who can notify ski patrol. If you stress that it's only for emergencies I feel people will leave it be unless necessary
 
First, RFID wouldn't work at those ranges. I think the current maximum range with expensive equipment (not experimental) is a few hundred feet. With normal consumer equipment maybe a few dozen feet. There would have to be an active transmitter in the wristband.

how much battery power do you think a little wristband can have? a transmitter than can transmit a mile in poor weather in mountainous terrain reliably I don't think is something that can be put into a wristband. Maybe I'm wrong.

And even if it could be, the environmental damage from selling even an extra 1000 battery powered transmitters over 1 day at 1 resort is pretty huge. Not to mention the cost. I mean even the very cheapest transmitters capable of that could easily add 25% onto the price of a lift ticket.

As for bluetooth, that would mean active transmittance that's always on. Essentially a dumbed down smart watch. It's more possible, but would still cost a lot to implement and given many or most ski hills have shitty or non-existent cellphone reception then that makes the problem a little more difficult.

The Recco system is quite a bit more ingenious using reflectors that take no power at all. Really neato. Cheaper and easier to implement and was actually designed in the first place to put on lift tickets. If resorts actually cared enough/had enough money they could design and produce a Recco reflector that's actually small enough to be put on a lift ticket without it being cumbersome and implement that.

To sum up, the technology is there already for what you suggest. Just the number of in-bounds casualties is so incredibly low already for the amount of person hours on the hill that it's probably not considered to be worth the effort and wouldn't ever be implemented by at more than at most a handful of hills unless mandated.
 
13624840:mantoast said:
Its a cool idea but its similar to the recco system. You have the transmitter on your gear, but with the recco it only works if the resort has the system and if someone knows you're missing. As for this idea yes its a cool one, but how would they implement it? The entire resort would need a new RFID style ticket with circuitry to enable a distress signal. Now to further that point a handful of gapers falls off the groomer and get stuck in 6inches of powder. They all hit their button to signal ski patrol, meanwhile a guy just broke his leg sending a cliff and is alone and hits his button. Now you have 20 ski patrol calls with only 1 being crucial to get too. Now all the patrollers are trying to respond and ride while staring at a GPS screen to try and find your ping. It would be cumbersome. Everyone has a phone on them they can call for help for the most part. Ski patrollers should know the run like the back of their hands but they do miss cases. For example lady stuck in a creek bed getting soaked. I was working lifts saw her when I was riding up told patrol and they missed the creek thought it was another one and they bailed on the call. I came riding down and saw her in there so I had to do a rescue myself. So this would be a cool system to incorporate but the cost and stress caused from it would be monumental.
Click to expand...

Thanks for telling me about the Recco system, that's perfect for my competitive differentiation portion because my product is for mainstream resort skiing as well, not just avalanche rescues. I agree implementation would be difficult, but many resorts already have gates that scan passes, so I could just put that into the wristband.

As for the whole gaper thing, first off that mental image made me laugh so thanks. If they truly are stuck, it might be an easy situation to get out of for us but in their case it could be a a genuine issue and thus a true emergency.

I agree the costs would be a lot higher than maintaining the current system, but the expected reduction in response times could save lives, which is priceless.

I really appreciate your thoughts, means a lot! +k
 
13624918:VinnieF said:
First, RFID wouldn't work at those ranges. I think the current maximum range with expensive equipment (not experimental) is a few hundred feet. With normal consumer equipment maybe a few dozen feet. There would have to be an active transmitter in the wristband.

how much battery power do you think a little wristband can have? a transmitter than can transmit a mile in poor weather in mountainous terrain reliably I don't think is something that can be put into a wristband. Maybe I'm wrong.

And even if it could be, the environmental damage from selling even an extra 1000 battery powered transmitters over 1 day at 1 resort is pretty huge. Not to mention the cost. I mean even the very cheapest transmitters capable of that could easily add 25% onto the price of a lift ticket.

As for bluetooth, that would mean active transmittance that's always on. Essentially a dumbed down smart watch. It's more possible, but would still cost a lot to implement and given many or most ski hills have shitty or non-existent cellphone reception then that makes the problem a little more difficult.

The Recco system is quite a bit more ingenious using reflectors that take no power at all. Really neato. Cheaper and easier to implement and was actually designed in the first place to put on lift tickets. If resorts actually cared enough/had enough money they could design and produce a Recco reflector that's actually small enough to be put on a lift ticket without it being cumbersome and implement that.

To sum up, the technology is there already for what you suggest. Just the number of in-bounds casualties is so incredibly low already for the amount of person hours on the hill that it's probably not considered to be worth the effort and wouldn't ever be implemented by at more than at most a handful of hills unless mandated.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response, and don't worry it's good to be harsh, that's exactly what I wanted - straight opinion.

My idea was to take one of those vivofit / fitbit bracelets but have some sort of plug in to charge it, like an iPhone for example. I realize it would cost more than the average lift ticket, which is why I was thinking that if you were to buy it yourself, it comes with a skitracks-type function, as well as the ability to pre-purchase day tickets/ act as a season's pass. This way you can avoid purchase lines, as well as be able to record your ski day without having to drain your phone battery.

I haven't looked into the whole tech side of things, as it's pretty much just a theoretical idea at the moment, but originally my idea revolved around it only being used when in distress - so it only emits a signal when you need it to. Then ski patrol would have some sort of command centre board with an alarm that tells them to head to a certain location, with coordinates. Once there, they use a more precise tracking device to home in on the signal.

Again, thanks so much for responding, really helps my project out! +k
 
13624897:CabbyArrant said:
Recco isn't a transmitter. It's a reflector

Made to be used with a specialized transceiver. I feel the better way to do this is to create a Bluetooth link to the persons phone. When they activate the bracelet it sends a geotagged message to local emergency dispatch who can notify ski patrol. If you stress that it's only for emergencies I feel people will leave it be unless necessary
Click to expand...

That's a cool concept with the phone I like it. I was also thinking for resorts that don't have phone service it could be useful as they have no way to contact ski patrol except visually or face-to-face. Just wondering if you feel contacting EMS would be good, or just keep it on hill and avoid having to swamp 911 with more calls?

Also the 'for emergencies only' idea is what I was hoping people would understand, so thanks for seeing that!

+k, appreciate the response!
 
13624924:benlokhorst said:
That's a cool concept with the phone I like it. I was also thinking for resorts that don't have phone service it could be useful as they have no way to contact ski patrol except visually or face-to-face. Just wondering if you feel contacting EMS would be good, or just keep it on hill and avoid having to swamp 911 with more calls?

Also the 'for emergencies only' idea is what I was hoping people would understand, so thanks for seeing that!

+k, appreciate the response!
Click to expand...

I feel using EMS response is best because it dissuades people from using the device for no reason. Additionally I feel that this should be a consumer product marketed to people who know they are going to ski off piste. I don't think really that it's at all necessary to have your lift ticket involved with this device.

I think you have a great idea with the bracelet thing but I would narrow your marketing audience and maybe market it towards people who would need it the most.
 
Basically it could be a chip inside a wristband so when you buy a ticket, you could digitally load the ticket info onto the wristband and have the lifties scan an RFID chip with that ticket number on it. Then after your ski day, the ticket would time out and eliminate itself from the band.

This system is similar to alot of RFID systems currently in use, except you own the "ticket", and they just load the info onto the band when you pay, and after the ticket is no longer valid, it disappears from the card.

On top of that, have a distress switch that contacts the ski patrol for the mountain the lift ticket is valid at.

one problem is that it would be a little expensive, and you would still need cell service, wifi, or a radio system.
 
13624897:CabbyArrant said:
I feel the better way to do this is to create a Bluetooth link to the persons phone. When they activate the bracelet it sends a geotagged message to local emergency dispatch who can notify ski patrol. If you stress that it's only for emergencies I feel people will leave it be unless necessary
Click to expand...

OP Reading what you posted about this it reminded me of a product i saw in prototyping stage at ISPO a couple of years back. its a similar thing to what i've quoted but its a helmet mounted device which automatically sends info on your location and if it detects an impact an emergency notification to your emergency contacts via your phone.
http://site.icedot.org/site/crash-sensor/?lang=en

I feel this used with patrol for an emergency contact for each resort could work.

Of course it has all the drawbacks that come with battery powered anything but similar to your transciever you just have to make sure you keep it charged before heading out.
 
What if your passed out after hitting a tree of have fallen of a cliff and are unconscious. How do I press the button then. What if I accidentally press it when it take a small slam in the park. This seems like life alert for skiing
 
13625582:dyer said:
What if your passed out after hitting a tree of have fallen of a cliff and are unconscious. How do I press the button then. What if I accidentally press it when it take a small slam in the park. This seems like life alert for skiing
Click to expand...

It's also common sense that if you are out of bounds you shouldn't be alone. Who's gonna dig your ass out of a tree well because ski patrol probably will not be there in time to save you?Park is different because there are others there who could contact ski patrol and parks are typically easy to access and patrollers usually are close or on hand 24/7. No solution is perfect but do you have a better one?
 
I also had the idea to install a device in avy packs that if someone deploys an avy air bag that a geotagged message is sent to local dispatch via cellular service that an avalanche has occurred and that SAR assistance is needed. This could also be beneficial for the NWS to collect data on avalanches as well with the help of these devices.

These devices could also be about the size of a fitbit
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top