A Modest Proposal for all you NSers(that are american)...

it was a good post but to be honest, i didnt really felt any opposition to my words, so i cant really "respond". maybe i just didnt get what you mean. i said the us arent world champs in admiting past failures and you bring even more examples.
 
Sure, lets talk about historical information that is poorly represented (at best) and flagrantly inaccurate (at worst) by virtually everyone in this thread.

Why don't you all pull you heads out of your asses with this red vs. blue shit and actually discuss the problems we're in right now? Or is it too much for you guys to drop the mouse and pick up a fucking newspaper?
 
A current newspaper wouldn't do us much good in a historical debate. Also, a majority of the newspapers out there (ie. the gray lady) are disgustingly slanted.
 
Here's a novel concept...read more than one paper, and don't read the editorials.

It really is laughable as if all the old media is any less credible or slanted than the trash people dig up in Google.
 
nah man, I keep away from Newspapers. I occasionally pick up the Boston Globe, which sucks hardcore, or the Boston Herald. Mostly I like the wall street journal, not because I'm an economist, but because I find they have a pretty balanced approach, maybe a bit more right of center (or center of left) but I like what they have going on. besides that, I read news mags. I'll catch a ton of flak for it, but I read the national review and Conservative american, which I realize are really slanted right, but I find a lot of it to be really interesting and akin to my own opinions. I hate newsweek, and I get most of my info out of backcountry magazine. haha, for skiing that is.
 
Local papers tend to be hit and miss. The WSJ is a very good paper. I would recommend you also read the Financial Times along with the WSJ.
 
Wow you are godly. You basically summed up america. That is exactly what i believe. Finally, you know whats going on now
 
Okay, besides missing the point on nearly everything I said or misconstruing in in wierd ways, you're a douche. Try debating with some class.

Yes it is YOUR slavery. Without the liberals, conservatives would still have slavery. And, left to their own devices, your Republican and conservative company owners would seek to further reduce worker's rights and wages. And yes, I do know several kernals about history. Hell, I know whole ears of corn about history! You would also know that the ideas of Democrat and Republican have basally switched over our nations history. What was Republican then, is Democrat now. MLK was a liberal Republican - now he would be considered a Dem. Also know that since the working class riots at the turn of the century, unions voted Democrat. Since the harlem Renaissance blacks have traditionally voted Dem.

Racist pointed in the right direction was a comment on the WAY Sharpton and the rest are racist. They seek to empower the Black people, even if they are being racist. They aren't seeking to deprive whites of rights. the racism we see from many Republicans seeks to deprive blacks and hispanics of rights. If you understand. Yeah, it was a wierd point. so what. It's kind of true.

As for Gore, snopes.com that shit. c'mon. It's been mythbusted man. AS for Genocide, there hasn't been any. Not really. But we're headed there. Hell, we killed off the Native Americans, stole land from the Mexicans, are currently occupying Afghanistan for basically no reason, obviously in Iraq, soon to be invading Iran if we get another Repub in the house, we killed far too many Vietnamese for no reason the list goes on...

AND I AM NOT COMMUNIST. LIBERAL DOES NOT = COMMUNIST. plus, Stalin wasn't communist. He was Leninist Communist. A perversion of communism.
 
Lincoln was a republican, but at that time there was a major party switch going on with the whigs, democrats and republicans at which point the republican values were similar to that of the current democratic party and the democrats were similar to that of the republicans. So you may say lincoln was a republican but not in today's context.
The Conservatives tried to succeed is better than saying the democrats tried to succeed.
 
"Most of you are fucking racist as all hell." Really. What a great statement without any actual evidence. It's so obvious this is not true. there are still a few ass holes who are, but it is not even close to MOST, more like a few, if that.

"Racist pointing in the correct direction" What an oxymoron. So racism favoring blacks over white or any combination is okay. I can't even begin to start how absurd this statement. I know all liberals don't even think this, at least I hope not. All racism is bad racism. It doesn't matter which way. Everyone is EQUAL under the constitution and in human ethics. There is no reason blacks should be better than white just because some racist assholes in the past enslaved them.

We say that climate change is natural. Not man made. It should not be a political issue, but a scientific one. But since your friend Al Gore made the little movie of his, it's all you can talk about. I'm not gonna touch more on this, there is just too much crap and hypocrisy to talk about.

Genocide and slavery, yeah since when I walk through downtown Atlanta, there are slave trades going on everywhere. What newspapers are you reading?

Genocide; can you tell me exactly which race, political, or cultural group we are trying to systematically destroy? A real answer would be nice.

Family values......Are you listening to what your'e saying? We don't want people to divorse as many times as they want. How are you going to have a strong family with 2 dads?

Cancer killing america...no more than obama and fucking liberals thinking every american has a right to healthcare and other socialist ideas.
 
secede, not succeed. although i suppose they failed at both.

however you are right. we cannot talk in terms of party, but rather conservative vs liberal
 
...yea it's satire, but extremely shitty satire. not even very clever at all. i love how he felt the need to put "law student" at the bottom to somehow justify himself in being able to make legitamate arguments. law students at bumblefuck hickstown university do not impress me.
 
^ current research shows that Lincoln was more conservative than many people think. All of us know the whole keeping the union without freeing a single slave schtick, and the fact that the emancipation proclamation didn't do shit for slaves in the south, only in the union states that still kept slavery and the border states. But yeah, Lincoln can be seen as a conservative, especially in the sense that he was willing to continue slavery if it meant keeping the union together. Status quo.
 
how was the emancipation proc GOING to do anything in the south... they were trying to secede..... of course they didnt follow it.
 
we so talked up the iraqi-turkish-iranian genocide against the kurds because they were sitting on some oilfields?

and now were giving a billion dollars to Palestine to rebuild the destruction caused by Israeli weapons (which we funded too)? good gravy we are a mess. kinda like fighting the taliban twenty years after supporting them. and becoming enemies and fighting with iraq and iran after being friends with them. how about we stop giving our freaking money away and then regretting it later?
 
^ I'm trying to make the point that most people are ignorant when it comes to emancipation. If you asked the average Joe about it, he would tell you the emancipation proclamation freed all of the slaves. They wouldn't be able to tell you about issues between Lincoln and union generals (mainly sherman) who freed slaves in the south and set them up with land. Lincoln overturned actions like these because he was a genius and knew the political climate in the north. He had to balance the favor of soo many different factions. He had to hold together republicans and radical republicans as well as toe the line lightly to ensure that the border states didn't join the confederacy. Lincoln was a very complicated guy, but he was probably the best POTUS.
 
The conservatives would still have slavery? Are...you...fucking...shitting...me?

OMG. You are actually right. You know, if Al Gore had been elected, we wouldn't have any global climate change. I am so enlightened now.

Seriously, I can't believe you actually think that. Conservative and republican has changed so much to begin with. On the other hand, had slavery not been abolished, it would have stopped at most a few decades later. That's not even fact and is just some "what if" opinion.

Al sharpton is a tax evader. fuck him.

deprive blacks and rights of rights? Rights of what? Illegal aliens needing drivers licenses? People that aren't citizens of our own country need something that isn't a right at all...How about liberals giving rights to terrorists. They dont deserve trials. They get military trubunals. Trials expose the ways we catch terrorists, and will severely limit us catching terrorists and protecting our country. This is how it has always been. We occupied afghanistan to stop the taliban. They are a lot better off. We stopped many terrorists and obliterated terrorist training camps. yeah, genocide is about to happen in iraq....really. We stopped genocide there. Saddam killed 100,000's of his own people there.
 
bahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahahahhahhahahahaahhahahahahahahahah

im not even gonna bother.
 
and weve killed almost a hundred thousand just since weve been there....

not to mention its not like we really went in there to save the people.
 
here's some

100% of the house of reps in new england are democrats, while less than 70% are democrat in mn.



also, you have a republican governor, but half of the states in ne have a republican governor too...

moz-screenshot.jpg
moz-screenshot-1.jpg


you even have a republican in congress, while 8/12 congressmen in ne are democrats or independent.

110th_US_Congress_Senate3.PNG


here are the 2008 election results by county for minnesota.



and here's new england

2008_election_map-counties.jpg


 
No. im pretty sure the families of the people sadaam had killed don't give a shit either. you know why? Because most likely, their families are dead as well. There's a large difference between seeking people out with the purpose of killing them and collateral damage, maybe not in the minds of the bereaved, but there is.
 
do you think we really give a shit about their people? look and incidents like abu grab ass, its not just because they are angry soldiers, its racism.

and as i said earlier, its not like we went in there as the heros to rescue the poor oppressed people, it had nothing to do with that.
 
god, you are comparing humiliation to mass murder. Pebbles to a mountain. Even racism. Do you blame US soldiers for feeling animosity towards their enemy? I don't get pissed when my Great uncles called japanese people Japs or Nips, or when my grandfather calls germans krauts. Its totally different.

 
really? the enemy eh? what exactly did those iraqis do to the US BEFORE we went into their country
 
Yes.

And yes.

And I don't think you get the enormity of what the Civil rights campaigns did. Hell, up until '68, blacks still couldn't even marry whites. Now tell me that the Liberal thinking didn't do anything, or that conservatives WEREN"T trying to keep the black man down. You many think of it as old history, but it actually wasn't that long ago that all this happened.

As for illegal immigrants: Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"



As for the Terrorists, I will refer you to the 5th and 14th amendments of the Constitution. I believe we have something called "Due Process" which is garunteed to all. I don't think we should sacrifice the foundations the Constitution gave us just so we can "get those fuckers".
 
Emma Lazarus was writing that poem about the people who come here through the legal process and actually work. Not the people who sneak across the borders and leech off of the american taxpayer. The constitution is for american citizens.
 
right. so fuck everyone whose not a us citizen. they dont get any rights whatsoever. who cares that it would be the right thing to do, we dont HAVE to legally. so whatever.
 
Ugh Ben, and Drew. I think we should acknowledge that we, in the words of the courageous Judd Greg, "have irreconcilable differences" in opinion. We should just talk about skiing. I'm sure we can agree on something there.
 
why don't we all take a trip over there and throw ourselves in the arms of terrorists. Lets see the basic human rights we are afforded. Most times, Its a blunt machete to the neck. If we are lucky, we can get a quick message off to our country before we are torn to pieces in front of a video camera.
 
here are some interesting maps, that support your hypothesis...

this shows states that allowed slaves...

then_map_2.jpg


and here are the red states...

now_map_2.jpg

 
the problem is those labeled as "terrorists" don't quite fit in with the requirements to be nicely treated as an ofifical POW as deined by the third geneva convention. they seem to lack uniforms, carrying their weapons openly, and "following the laws and customs of war", which were specifically defined.

this is where the current conflict comes from in our mindsets. we are supposed to be the shining example of everyone is to be treated equally. but others pose the question of why should we follow the rules if the other side is not?

although if you are real savvy, you might recall the actions of the "rebels" during the American Revoluntionary War. quite a number of ambush attacks rather than honorably marching towards each other in an open field while the two sides' generals sat on the side next to each other and watched.
 
to clarify, I meant first term. and obama hasn't been president for 8 years, so that roughly equates.
anyways, no point in arguing with you, you're clearly a fucking moron. and you voted for bush.
 
thats not what i said, i pointed out that its a big moral pickle that we're in and we seem to be ignoring our own actions during our war for independence. do you know about the geneva conventions? i was not there, but from what i have learned about them thru school and my military family, it was supposed to make war honorable, as much as an oxymoron as that is. when captured obvious soldiers only have to give name, rank, serial number and were to be given certain accords. the door was left open to torture spies, since they were being decietful.

 
No, I'm not 5, but I am smart enough to know that these people are extremist whacko's who don't deserve American rights. When our soldiers start killing prisoners and hacking their heads off on camera, let me know. Until then, I think they are getting what they deserve in prison.
 
again. we cant have the 5 year old, they are doing it so why cant we mentality. just because someone else does something bad doesnt mean we can?

should we have killed all the japanese we imprisoned during world war II

what about the fact that we fired german teachers, and generally treated them like shit during world war 1.

still very wrong things to do.
 
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