Introducing <i>'Skeeze'</i>

JD - Why are you so negative?

What made you so angry that you felt you had to explode like that and take personal shots at everybody and everything you could?

So many people talk about trying to have less hate on this site. Maturing posts, that are accepting of new ideas....

However you seem to have a vendetta against us who run the site, and the companies that make up the industry of skiing.

You ask why there's no personal stands about this versus Ski Time and all the other magazines. I'll tell you, personally I'm stoked to have all the various options sitting right beside my toilet so I can read them while I poo.

In our bathroom, we have Freeskier, SBC Skier, SBC snowboarder, Transworld snowboarding, Business 2.0, Future Music... lots of others too. I don't see why having expanded options of what you can get is bad?

Also... it's free....

The whole key here in my mind, is that after the downfall of Freeze, we all felt lost and always wish it was back. However, I think that from the ashes is arising a new breed... at least there's options for what you can pick up *for free*. There will be more. That's the beauty of our society!

In terms of making my opinions known, I'll tell you which ones I don't like after I've read them. Making inflamitory uneducated comments is the easiest way to seem stupid.

Finally I'd like to give props to the boys at K2 for getting this going, and Harvey over at Ski Time. At least you guys are doing something about the problem instead of just bitching about it.

seriously--- how would one talk shit on a ski company for turning their catalog into a magazine, and in the same breath talk shit on a ski company for putting too much money into racing...

Fuck yeah K2.

thats a lot a words

you guys shouldnt make havoc over this! you haven't even seen it! and if you had you would understand the beauty and just how awesome all of the picts and articles are!!

It really is a wonderful maGazine!!

YAY I LOVE K2!!

Sick. Props to K2 for stepping it up.

brochure or no brochure, it's not influencing me in any way to buying their products, so if it's going to be free... what the hey... maybe i'll like the pictures. i'm not so simple-minded as to buying something just because it's there. i'm sure many of the kids on this site are now going to think K2 is the 'cool' company, and the organisation is going to profit immensely from that, which i feel is somewhat manipulative, and low, but i refuse.

peace.

Oh, and you should release an online ski magazine!

You could be the first one to have a completely non-sold out, No-advertising, No-bullshit media source!

Do it, I'll post it on my webspace and promote it for you! (seriously!)

Congratulations Schmies, you’ve managed the near impossible: Offending me. Now I’m going to go through your post step by step and rip you, K2, and your whole premise to fucking shreds. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone so blatantly shit all over skiing like you did while attempting to promote what your news release claims is a magazine, yet what you claim is a catalog. So before I even start with anything, I’ve got something very personal to say to you: Fuck You and fuck K2.

Let’s start with you trying to disprove my claim of K2 being a huge multinational corporation. K2 is “US based�, with all marketing, R&D, prototyping, design, and brand direction done in the US. That’s cute. For one, your production is done in China. While there may or may not be anything wrong with that (this isn’t a debate on globalization and foreign production), it immediately comes pretty damn close to proving my point: Multi national corporation. But wait, there’s more! Oh yes…there’s more. This is where I back up my claims of K2 being a HUGE multinational corporation. Are you familiar with www.k2inc.net? I bet you are…but I bet most of the kids on NS aren’t. Let’s educate them shall we? K2 Skis, K2 Snowboards, K2 Skates, K2 Bikes, K2 L&P, Rawlings, Earth Products, Adio Footwear, Planet Earth, Hawk Shoes, Liquid, Pflueger, Shakespeare, Worth Inc, Debeer Lacrosse, Dana Design, Brass Eagle, Viewloader, JT USA, Shakespeare England, Shakespeare Holland, Shakespeare Australia, Shakespeare C & E, Shakespeare Mono, Shakespeare Mono (England), Stearns, Hilton, Ride Snowboards, Morrow Snowboards, 5150 Snowboards, Atlas Snowshoes, Tubbs Snowshoes, WGP Paintball, Innovative Products Inc, Ex Officio, Marmot, Marker, Volkl, and last but certainly not least, Tecnica. All are owned by parent company K2 Inc. So yes, K2 is indeed a huge multinational corporation. I don’t think I really need to now explain my tentacle analogy now, but since you were so cute and smart with it in your post, I think I shall. If anything, it’ll at least provide for some entertainment.

“One tiny part of its many tentacles in a pathetic, misguided, yet potentially succesful attempt to corner a market by taking over it from the grassroots up, the wrong way."

Skiing is but one of the many, many things K2 does to make money. By skiing, I mean all types of skiing. Freeskiing, recreational skiing, and yes, even racing, though K2 Skis has cut back significantly on their race program recently. By my count, K2 currently produces 22 models of alpine skis. Of those, 7 are twintip skis, including the 2 junior skis. In other words, just under 32% (31.8% to be exact) of the skis you produce actually have any impact as far as the freeskiing market is concerned. So, that leaves approximately 68% of your skis more or less completely irrelevant to what we (newschoolers.com users) do. So, if one of K2 Inc’s tentacles is K2 Skis, then 32% qualifies as “one tiny part of its (K2 Inc) many tentacles�. I’d end this with a smart little comment, but I’d rather just let the facts speak for themselves.

Let’s take on your claim of a “Grassroots distribution network�, OK? You really mean “our network of K2 dealers, and whatever K2 athletes we can scam into giving out “magazines� to unsuspecting kids�. Hardly grassroots Schmies, but thanks for coming out.

“No, we really just wanted to make something cooler than a brouchure with a picture and description of our skis�. Congratulations, you may have achieved that. Too bad your “news release� is misleading everyone into thinking it’s a magazine(Hint, this point is important for later on as well). At this point, I’d like to separate my dislike of HOW you’re going about your business with the actual finished product. I don’t really care about the final product. I don’t think it’s going to be very good, but that isn’t really my problem.

Next up, my comment involving Abma. I apologize, I had misread one of your previous posts. As far as I now understand it, Abma isn’t in your catalog. This nullifies one of my arguments. I’m human, I make mistakes, just like you and K2. I’m also willing to own up to them when necessary.

Onto the design of the cover. I say cover because Schmies is correct when he says that I haven’t held the finished catalog in my hands. I do, however, feel as though the cover of a magazine/catalog/book/whatever speaks volumes about the content. I think it’s poorly designed. It’s nothing that hasn’t been done before. Completely unoriginal. And yes, companies before you have done better. Analog comes to mind. Before I go into it, this isn’t some bullshit snowboard industry envy. Analog (a subsidiary of giant multinational corporation Burton) put a ton of effort into last year’s catalog. They didn’t call it a magazine, they didn’t do anything but distribute it to shops like they’d distribute any other catalog, but somewhere along the line, people noticed. A lot of people. ID Magazine did, and they gave it an honourable mention in their last Design Awards. I believe it was in the “print media� section, or something to that effect. It was original, well done, and got design industry praise. Feel free to shit on it Schmies, but I don’t think your opinion is nearly as valid as ID’s opinion. And even better, Analog didn’t go ahead and discontinue all print advertising after putting out their catalog. They continued with it, and did an excellent job. I know, one of their ads is my desktop’s background. So not only did their catalog get them some heavy praise and good press, but they continued to advertise in the magazines that support their industry, and to which kids turn to for information and opinions about their favourite sport. Dual prong approaches usually work best Schmies.

Leaving the design aspect of things, I’m going to turn my attention to my claim of “corporate propaganda�. As you so eloquently claim Schmies, all advertising is, to an extent, corporate propaganda. But here’s the problem: advertising more or less states facts about products. It does so in a slightly insidious manner, but nonetheless, it’s pretty easy to see right through it. And we’ve grown accustomed to it, so being able to decipher advertising from legitimate magazine style content is relatively easy for most. Let’s leave the arguments about all action sports magazine content being advertising (same thing could be said for action sports movies BTW), and focus on the term “propaganda�. Propaganda is loosely defined as communication with the aim of actively influencing peoples’ opinions. So far, close to advertising. Unfortunately, propaganda uses more subtle and insidious ways of influencing opinions than advertising does. Propaganda also typically attempts to evoke strong emotions by serving up non-intuitive and/or non-logical relationships between concepts. (www.wikipedia.org if you wanna go ahead and search it some, but I’ve been studying this shit for years and I’m more than comfortable with the terms I use). Your “news release� is BLATANT propaganda. It clearly attempts to draw similarities between Freeze and Skeeze. And it’s designed to make an emotional appeal to peoples’ sense of loss in regards to Freeze being canned by Transworld. In fact, we could go as far as calling Skeeze “white propaganda�, as it comes from an easy to see source and uses slacker methods of persuasion such as one sided information (only K2 products, athletes, etc) as well as other commonly used PR tactics. We might even go so far as to call Skeeze and the accompanying news release Grey Propaganda, and say it uses sneakier manipulation tactics put out by a source that pretends to be friendly(as you’re doing when you claim to be “filling a void� and speaking directly to “us�), while really just trying to in this case sell us product. That you do it COVERTLY is what makes it propaganda. and this is where I start to have a very big problem with not only your catalog, but also your “News Release�. It’s not upfront like advertising is. It takes media literacy to understand the goals behind this stuff. Basically, you’re taking advantage of a public starved for decent ski media and feeding them advertising under the form “a magazine� and that’s what makes the concept of Skeeze and the accompanying “news release� so ridiculously insulting and offending to me and many others. I don’t need to say more on this, it makes pretty obvious the differences between Skeeze and a “normal� magazine. For you guys to use Freeze, Nemo Designs, Newschoolers.com and its users, and maybe even Micah Abrams’ name all in a covert attempt to provide what is a very deceiving “magazine� is sad, pathetic, and again, offensive to me. And K2 has done an excellent of forgetting its roots. Remember how K2 was the first big ski company to have a Factory Freeride Team? Remember the great K2 ads you used to put together? The Calvin Klein rip off ad comes to mind. Remember how K2 gave Seth Morrison a pro model ski before 99% of skiers even knew what a pro model was? Remember how Seth Morrison, your marqui athlete, had more Freeze covers than anyone else (was it 7?)? What you’ve done here with Skeeze makes all that inconsequential. You didn’t use to need to stoop this low for sales, you got them because you worked hard, put in the time and quality product, and did it the right way. I think K2 Skis has lost its way, and in the process has proceeded to disrespect everything it used to stand for, as well as the sport and the "memories of Freeze". Again, to me, that’s offensive. At this juncture, I don't even feel like mentioning the ridiculous similarities between "Freeze" and "Skeeze".

For all the shit I’m deservedly giving you guys, I’m going to congratulate you on one thing: Picking the right market to do try and pull this shit in. If this were snowboarding, you’d have just about every company rep publicly calling you out for lying to your customers. And if this were skateboarding, you’d have just about every magazine sharpening the knives, ready to slice you for not only shitting all over the concept of what a magazine is, not only disrespecting the sport’s history by calling on the memories of a dearly departed and important member of its past press to sell more gear, but also for pulling the advertising you would have otherwise put in their magazines. K2 is lucky that through a series of circumstances and associations, most people in skiing have their hands tied and their mouths duct-taped.

“Jib_This. We wholeheartedly await your new brochure/catalog with stories/whatever you want to call it.�

How would you feel if I went ahead and did publish my own magazine? And how stupid would you feel if I managed to do it without disrespecting or offending my readers, advertisers, or fellow industry people? I bet you’d feel a little angry, a little confused, and very disappointed with yourself, the company you work for, and the effort you put into Skeeze. You might even be disappointed with Skeeze itself.

But alas, I’m just some random nobody with no skills or talents to call my own, talking shit on newschoolers.com…just one of many high-minded lowlives…

I expected more out of you and K2 Schmies, I really did expect more.

You know what? I'm so sick of this argument it makes me crazy.

Jib - I think one point you're missing here is that it shouldn't be K2 you're angry at. You should hate every Ski publication and media source there is. Your argumet (well researched!) does nothing more than apply to everything. Almost everything you read in any magazine cover to cover is paid for. Movies feature athletes that the sponsors have paid money to have segments. Hell, in the snowboard industry, companies will say "I'll pay 300 bucks per second for my athlete to be in your movie up to max. 30 seconds."

Sponsored skiers are really not much more than walking, talking, mountain riding, rail sliding billboards.

Sure K2 is doing something to promote their product. Sure it's a magazine style catalog that tempts readers to buy their equipment, but it's no different than anything else done in this industry.

In my opinion, whether you're a sellout to corporate america, or a sellout to the idea of keeping core, everybody is just trying to sell stuff. The whole world is sold out, and the only way to avoid it is to Walden Pond style go live off the land somewhere.

K2 is a sellout. NS is a sellout. Skiing is gay.

This argument is a wase of everyone's time.

I'd also like to thank you for drawing so much attention to this. It just makes it so much cooler that there is negative hype around it.

Makes me want to read it so much more.

Jib_This, Doug said it best, but I can elaborate on a few more points.

I'll keep it brief as you don't understand much more than a few definitions you found in the dictionary.

I even found a definition for you too to start with:

Magazine: a publication that is issued periodically, usually bound in a paper cover, and typically containing stories, essays, poems, etc.,by many writersand often photographs and drawings

I would recommend perhaps even looking at what has become the center piece for this disscussion before you make any more assumptions. Magazine/brochure/ media piece celebrating our athletes, call it what you want. Just taking a different apporach than what everyone had done previous was our goal.

As for K2, yes we make our skis in China and have done so for the past few years, and you are correct, as that technically makes us a 'multi-national corporation'. I wasn't very clear attempting to convey the fact that everything having to do with this company is done right here on Vashon, save for the final production run.

And while we are part of K2 Inc. and all of the subsidiaries, we are not K2 Inc. Meaning we are just a small company amongst many others. The parent company holds our name, K2, but obviously as a whole, everyone's successes add up. Which is why many sport's groups are in the buisiness of aquisition. Technica also has nothing to do with K2 at this moment.

You also argue that only 32% of our skis have any bearing to NS users. What does that prove? Seriously, I'm really asking you. Would we be cooler to you if we made 100% twin tips but only made/sold and couple hundred skis? The 32% adds up a lot of twin tips around the world. People participating in our sport is bad now? I thought we were talking about SKEEZE not skis.

The grassroots program was an complete assumption on your part. It wasn't even announced on here. And of course it is going to be at K2 dealers. That is an obvious initial placement.

Analog brochure? Cool. Never checked it out, but again an opinion of style and art, to each their own. I see great stuff ID praises and I see questionable stuff. That is all my idea of asthetic and obviously that differs from you to me. Nitpicking is what it is. We never said it is the craziest piece of art that will change the world. I think they did a fantastic job, but again, this remains an opinion It is also my opinion that ID and other art mags are far from being the veritable 'measuring stick.'

Two of the founding fathers of FREEZE made this with us. And seriously man, what is so covert and sneaky about everything? We are K2 Skis. We made a magazine/brochure. It even has our name on the cover. Kind of big too. And inside? Our athletes on our skis. Not so sneaky. Really. Yeah, not sneaky at all. Rather blatent really, like the name.I thought we are a brand promoting a sport and a lifestyle with positive physical and social bennefits, not cigarettes.

If you made your own magazine, I wouldn't be mad. How could you believe I would be? I can't imagine anybody that would be mad except other magazines. That would be great. The more pressure our skiing media gets to create pieces that speak to the youth, the better. Seriously, go ahead and get it done. But, let me warn you man, if you don't have the money yourself, you might even have to include 'propaganda' to pay for your 'magazine'. Might not want to taint your soul in that fashion. And of course, if you were not featured in ID, you life might be slightly void of meaning, but look beyond that. Take a risk man. You also really do assume too much at times. Your paragraph stopped just short of me slitting my wrists if you make a mag. Hahaha.

I still have no idea what you desire to see from the industry. We were sick of complaning, so we did something about it. That being said, like Doug, I'm kind of sick of the back and forth nitpicking and I've got deadlines brother.

You feel threatened for some reason and you really shouldn't. I also know you are hiding behind your alias and hold a grudge to a different degree. Perhaps that will surface one day. Until then.

-ryan

sounds like a good deal to me.

Jib_This, i would think that for all the knowledge you seem to possess, you would have realized that you're preaching to the wrong audience. not only will 99% of us not worry about what message K2 might be trying to secretly trying to push into us, but we really don't care how they package it. care to know why? because A) believe it or not, we're not all as stupid as you apparently think we are, B) we aren't as hyper-paranoid about evil marketing as you appear to be, and C) we, for the most part, just want to get stoked on the upcoming season, so we're all going to read and look at pictures in just about every publication we can get our hands on. don't worry- K2 won't be the only company that gets to shove it's advertising down our throats. but don't you think there are bigger problems to worry about? gas prices are rising, the US started a war for no apparent reason, AIDS is spreading across Africa at a nearly unstoppable rate, college tuitions are increasing across the country making it more difficult for people to get an education, and you're writing papers on NS about how awful K2's advertising campaign is. don't you think there are more important things to be putting that much energy into than a ski company's absolutely Satanic advertising scheme? it's obvious that you have many resources at your disposal and that you're very passionate about... well... arguing, but there are definitely better things you could be trying to accomplish. let's put this into perspective- Bush is a baaad, baaaaad man and he's responsible for people dying, K2 is a big ski company who gets people stoked on skiing. see the difference?

did anyone else ever see "Pee Wee's Big Adventure"? Remember the scene where he assembles all his friends and starts to layout his argument for who must have stolen his bike? and he goes on for hours and hours and winds up cackling insanely and babbling about a sweater unraveling? that was sort of like Jib_This's post.

-Micah

Did anyone else ever notice that Gutt said "We feel like there is an huge void when it comes to magazines that speak to the 12 to 24 skiers of our sport."? I thought there were more skiers than that... freudian!

He's speaking about an age group...but I'm sure you already knew that...

this is why K2 has crappy skis.... because all their employees are too busy defending their crappy brochure on newschoolers when they should be trying to figure out how to make skis that don't break all the time

it's funny people don't bitch about Lines, Armadas, and 4FRNTs falling apart, but when it's a big corporation that they have a problem with, they go wild bitching and moaning. i'm on original PEs and SPs and have yet to have them sustain any serious damage yet i ski with kids who break a pair of Lines each season.

siiiick. thats because LINE skis are really bad ass. have you ever ridden a k2?? this kid i know ripped his bindings out three times, all on different seth pistols. obviously you just arent a hardcore enough skier.

"obviously you just arent a hardcore enough skier."

There have been a lot of dumb comments in here but that's gotta be one of the biggest... is Seth hardcore enough for you? No, the skis are fine, especially for the price they ask.

wow....that got out of hand really fast.

yeah, Brick killed a guy.....